8 replies to this topic

[jcalderaio]

I have been in over 5 serious car accidents throughout my life, leaving my nerves in a permanent state of disarray. My joints feel like there are fire ants in them; I have paresthesia (tingling) throughout my body; my arms, legs, back, and ribs burn with pain; I have occipital neuralgia, where the base of my skull feels an intense pressure whenever I sit, and the top of my head tingles and burns and wraps around to the side of my head; my joints are so stiff when I wake that I practically have to pry my fingers open and arms straight; I cannot sit in a regular chair because it makes all of these symptoms worse, so my teachers record their lectures and I do my school work from a recliner at my house, where I sit almost 24/7. Activity of any sort make all of my symptoms worse, so I live an exclusively sedentary lifestyle. The only relief I get are from the medications I take:

 

Daily Meds:

Amitriptyline - 25 mg once at night

Tegretol XL - 200 mg once at night

Metoprolol ER - 25 mg once at night

Guanfacine - 1 mg three x per day

Suboxone - 4 mg three x per day

Chlorzoxazone - 500 mg three x per day

Lyrica - 200 mg three x per day

Claritin-D 24 hour - 1 tablet once in the morning

 

As Needed Meds:

Valium - 5 mg (usually take one 3 days per week)

Baclofen - 10 mg (usually take two, 3 times per week)

Phenibut - 1500 mg (usually take 1500 mg, 3 days per week)

**I stagger these addictive "as needed" meds as to avoid addiction and withdrawal

 

EVEN with the large list of "Daily" medication, my pain still lingers. I am in school and cannot be in pain while watching lectures at home or doing homework, or I will just give up and watch tv. Depending on how much pain I am in, depends what I take on a particular day. Sometimes I will take my daily meds, 1500 mg phenibut, and 2.5 mg valium and the pain will be at the point where it's bearable. Of all my "as needed" meds, phenibut works the best for nerve pain. IT. IS. AWESOME. Sometimes, on my phenibut days, I will go the entire day with no pain. I will often times take the valium and baclofen on the same day. I will often take phenibut and valium on the same day. I will almost NEVER take baclofen AND phenibut on the same day. VERY RARELY will I take all three "as needed" meds on the same day - it depends how much pain I'm in. 

 

Because I am mixing so many GABAergic meds together, I am wondering - could I be doing permanent brain damage OR permanent damage to my GABA receptors? I am very careful as to not get physically addicted to any one "as needed" meds I am taking. Of course I am dependent on the Suboxone, it is an "opiate" after all. I NEVER, think to abuse it however. My pain dr suggested switching me to methadone from the Suboxone, but: 

1) I would need to come of the Amitriptyline, and that med is great for nerve pain and 

2) Methadone is much more easily abusive. I do not want to become a junkie, so Suboxone is really the only option I have. 

 

Anyways, I know many of you will not approve of my decision AT ALL to mix these meds, but I am doing what I have to do to survive. When I am in as much pain as I have, I often-times get suicidal, and I think my decision to juggle these meds is preferable to that. 

 

Back to my questions:

 

1) Could this combination be doing permanent brain damage?

2) What noots do you suggest I take to “shield” my brain from the side-effects of these pharmaceuticals 

3) Do you know of any non-addictive supplements that may help with nerve pain?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vader]

I didn't read it fully, but overall brain damage is very rare from drugs. Receptor downregulation, exitotoxicity, etc. is not brain damage per se. 

[Turnbuckle]

Have you looked at interactions? If not, this site may be useful--

https://www.drugs.co...nteractions.php

[Guinga]

As no one responded, I think i might be able to help you. but you should be more detailed about your condition. I saw on other other topic you posted, that you also suffer from autonomic issues and, "and much more" as you said. so, what age are you? do you have any injuries that haven't healed yet? do you suffer with PTSD or other anxiety disorder related with your accidents? musculoesqueletal problems? for what each medication was prescribed to you? do you take anything else? 

 

About the questions you asked: no, you won't suffer any permanent brain damage from your cocktail, with that being said this combination is pretty anti-cognitive while you're taking it, even with habituation, and maybe you could have some issues from the withdraw from the gabaergics, but that's not certain, and depends in a lot of factors.

 

There are in fact  a lot of things that can help with your pain, but you should first determine what kind of pain do you have? from the injuries and damaged nerve and tissue or from central pain, or perhaps both cases. 

The drugs you're taking are the standard for pain management, but the regimen it's not well designed: you have three gabaergics, two h1 antagonist drugs, two anti-adrenergics. so cross-tolerance will be a problem, as well the cognition problems. mixing drugs with different mechanism of actions that compliment each other are more likely to help, rather than mixing more of the same.

Edited by Guinga, 03 July 2016 - 10:27 PM.

[jcalderaio]

Guinga, 

 

 

 

what age are you?

 

I am 30 years old.

 

 

 

do you have any injuries that haven't healed yet?

 

I have been in many car accidents when I was about 15-21, but none of them left me in any pain. When I was 27, I had a weightlifting injury (one day I was doing bent over rows with heavy weight and I felt a tinge). They did an MRI and I had a 2 herniated discs in my lower back. Over the next few months I had lower back pain, but nothing too bad. 8 months later, one day after sitting on a plane for 10 hours, my right arm started burning like it was on fire. It eventually felt a bit better, but never went away. Then about 3 months later, I was playing volleyball and my right leg started burning and never went away. Over the course of the next year, everytime I did an activity or had sex, the pain would get worse, and they raised my med doses. They eventually MRI'd my entire back and found 5 more herniated discs in my thoracic (but they did nerve conductance tests and apparently no disc material was touching my nerves and there was no reason my arms should burn because my neck MRI was fine). 

 

My condition worsened and worsened, as new pain and symptoms arose. Here are my symptoms and the medicine I take for it after it:

 

Occipital Neuralgia and Cranial Parasthesia – Originally, brought on by sitting upright in class one day after a Radiofrequency Ablation to my T9-T11. As I sat, I felt a pressure build up at the base of my skull and a tingling sensation at the top of my head. The pressure was so intense that I thought my head was going to explode. The longer I sat upright, the worse it got. When I stood up, it slowly went away. Then, when I sat back down, it slowly came back. This is why I stopped going to class – I could no longer sit in a chair. Nowadays, I can only sit in a recliner chair. For a while, sitting in a recliner was working to prevent the occipital neuralgia from getting too bad. However, I was in a rollover car accident last semester and since then I’ve felt the tingling, pressure, and pulsating pain in my neck and head 24/7. The only relief I get is from baclofen and Valium. Sometimes, with time, it will decrease and get better. Then, when I do something active, like physical therapy, the next day the occipital neuralgia will be come back. Then I wait a few days and it gets a bit better.

Meds to Treat: Valium, Baclofen, Phenibut

 

Paresthesia – I feel tingling sensations throughout my entire body 24/7. The Amitriptyline, Lyrica, and carbamazepine help it a lot. I can feel these “pin-pricks” in my hands, arms, legs, lower-mid-and-upper back, ribs, neck – EVERYWHERE. They are so uncomfortable to the point that they actually hurt. My entire body literally feels like it has sunburn because of all the burning.

Meds to Treat: Suboxone, Lyrica, Phenibut, Amitriptyline, Chlorzoxazone, Baclofen

 

Tingling Joints – My elbows, knees, and hand bones feel like there are “fire-ants” inside of them – literally. This is one of my worst symptoms. When I sit, these symptoms get even worse and may stay for days. The carbamazepine helps these symptoms drastically.

Meds to Treat: Suboxone, Lyrica, Amitriptyline, Baclofen, Tegretol XL

 

Arthritis (stiff joints) – Especially in the mornings, my fingers feel like they are stiff and I need to try hard to open them. My arms feel stiff and it hurts to lengthen them out. My knees hurt when I bend my legs then put pressure on them to stand back up. I was tested for Rheumatoid Arthritis 4 times. The first time I was tested, my results were extremely low.

Meds to Treat: Suboxone, Amitriptyline

 

Eyes – I’ve had my eyes poked 3 times in the past 2 years. 2 of those times were minor pokes. My eyes aren’t healing properly, my eyeglass prescription has changed 2 of the 3 times.

 

Ears – 5 months ago I started complaining about my right ear being “clogged”, like it was hard to hear out of it. I was tested by 2 doctors (one of them at the word renowned Cleveland Clinic), and they said I was having hearing loss. My GP told me it could be fluid, so I took Sudafed decongestant and it went away. When I stop taking the Sudafed, my right ear fills back with fluid.

 

POTS – When I get up from sitting, I get very dizzy. Can’t run or I’d be out of breath in 2 seconds and couldn’t breathe (wasn’t asthma). I have had horrible anxiety throughout my life, but it turned out to be heart palpitations and I was diagnosed with POTS. However, I tried the POTS exercises given to me, and even split into 2 days and I cannot do. The following days, my body pulsates with nerve pain and weakness.

 

 

 

do you suffer with PTSD or other anxiety disorder related with your accidents?

 

*Most of these were here before my accidents - they are lifelong afflictions I've had since I was a boy, but that I would like to rectify

 

Psychological – severe agitation, anxiety, panic attacks, easily upset and angry, aggressive behavior, confusion, feeling disconnected, overly sensitive or critical, extreme fear/panic, morbid thoughts, depression, memory loss, disorientation, Obsessive Compulsive, severe rage, severe mood swings, anti-social behavior, decreased coping, irritability

 

 

 

do you take anything else?

 

Yes. 

 

Supplements:

Fish oil - 2000 mg per day

B-12 (methylcobalamin) - 1 mg

D3 - 5000 IU per day

ALCAR - 1000 mg per day

Stabilized R-Lipod Acid with Na-RALA - 100 mg per day

Benfotiamine - 300 mg per day

CoQ10 - 100 mg per day

Magnesium Glycinate - 200 - 400 mg per day

Turmeric Curcumin - 1300 mg per day

 

Piracetam - 3 mg twice per week

Alpha GPC - 1 mg twice per week

 

 

I direly need help tweaking my meds for better pain relief. I'm in so much pain that I can't lie directly on my back whatsoever. I had to stop going to University, but they were nice enough to record lectures for me to do at home in my recliner. I take all meds/supplements every day except for Valium, Baclofen, and Phenibut. I cycle these. The days I take Phenibut I feel like a normal person - my pain is ZERO. The baclofen and valium don't take away the pain nearly as well. What explanation would this have? If you need more info out of me, please let me know. And thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Finn]

 

Turmeric Curcumin - 1300 mg per day

 

Most of the drugs you are taking are either major or minor substrates of CYP 3A4, 

 

Oral intake of curcumin markedly activated CYP 3A4: in vivo and ex-vivo studies

http://www.nature.co...icles/srep06587

http://www.nature.co...06587/figures/1

 

The high end oral dose in that research is 100 mg/kg, the general rule of thumb for getting human mg/kg dose from rat's equivalent is to divide it by 6.2, so if we assume 60 kg person, the total human equivalent dose would be about 970 mg. Curcumin might be seriously inducing your CYP 3A4 activity and reducing the effectiveness of your medication.

 

 

Antidepressant activity of curcumin: involvement of serotonin and dopamine system

http://link.springer...0213-008-1300-y

 

In this article, for mice, there are following approximate changes in norephedrine (NE) depending on mg/kg dose

 

20 +8%

40 +12%

80 -25%

 

For serotonin (5HT) they were

 

20 +30%

40 +50%

80 +95%

 

while their statistical analysis of this concludes "There was no change in the norepinephrine levels.", as in statistically significant change, you could also speculate  that since 80 mg/kg dose increased 5HT by 95%, this 5HT increase could have led to NE decrease, while at lower doses the serotonergic effects, while still net positive, weren't strong enough to overwrite or noradrenagergic effects. Mouse mg/kg doses are converted to human doses by dividing it by 12.3. So assuming 60 kg human, the equivalent dose would be 390 mg. Though apparently the doses were injected, so it makes it harder to say what the actual equivalent for human oral dosing would be. Anyway, if curcumin reduces your NE levels, that could also hamper the pain alleviation.

 

 

ALCAR - 1000 mg per day

 

Googling 

 

ALCAR pain

 

The first google hit given is longecity forums, where all the first 5 hits are of people complaining of pain caused by ALCAR, not praising how ALCAR helped them with pain.

 

I would recommend keeping it simple 

Edited by Finn, 08 July 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[jcalderaio]

 

 

The first google hit given is longecity forums, where all the first 5 hits are of people complaining of pain caused by ALCAR, not praising how ALCAR helped them with pain.

 

I followed up on the alleged ALCAR posts, and in the first post only one person claims to have gotten back pain from ALCAR. The only reply that the person who claimed this got was from someone asking how it affected their back pain. In the second post on longecity, the person asks if the ALCAR could be affecting their backpain, and no one really could answer that.

 

Search outside of longecity, and you'll find that ALCAR has been studied in numerous journals for neuropathic pain and it has shown great promise.

 

As far as the turmeric, I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're trying to say. Could you break it down in laymans terms?

 

Phenibut is the single best "as needed" supplement I take for my pain, and without it I am almost unable to function because of the pain. I may just take it every day until I graduate to get me through school. I NEED to get through school. I am almost graduated and I cannot let my chronic pain stop me from graduating. I will take care of withdrawing from phenibut when I graduate. I have a prescription for baclofen to help me get off of it.

[jroseland]

Have you tried Kratom or MMJ?

[jcalderaio]

Kratom I've tried. Got addicted immediately. By the fourth week I was shoveling the powder into my mouth with no regard as to how much I was taking. Not good. Anyways now, being on Suboxone, I doubt it'd do anything. I would try MMJ, but I get drug tested. (maybe only once every 6 months. So I may try it).