58 replies to this topic

[Mind_Paralysis]

Well look at that...! Now this is interesting... recent studies just showed that mGlur 3 -receptors seems to be malfunctioning in the schizotypal Pre-Frontal Cortex - possibly being the cause of Schizoid inattention? Aka NEGATIVE SYMPTOMS.

 

Original discovery:

Metabotropic glutamate receptor protein expression in the prefrontal cortex and striatum in schizophrenia. (2005)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15945063

 

 

Partial confirmation through newer scans:

Effect of metabotropic glutamate receptor-3 variants on prefrontal brain activity in schizophrenia: An imaging genetics study using multi-channel near-infrared spectroscopy. (2015)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25914064

 

 

This got me thinking about the mode of effect of Fasoracetam, an old buddy of mine - it does enhance attention, it just appears to only be effective in doing so in a very select few individuals. ADHD individuals with mGlur -receptor polymorphisms, suffering from Intellectual Disability, that is!

 

To me, that kind of sounds a bit like the more severe Negative symptoms of Schizo, yeah...? So I checked the mode of effect - and it affects mGlur 2-3 receptors in the PFC! : D

 

A novel cognition enhancer NS-105 modulates adenylate cyclase activity through metabotropic glutamate receptors in primary neuronal culture.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9272724

 

Soooooooooooooo...

 

...Could not Fasoracetam then, a known cognitive enhancer and nootropic, be useful in treating Schizophrenic negative symptoms?!

 

I bet my girdle-belt that it could!

What do you think, folks?

Could Faso be useful in treating negative symptoms? Hence helping many ailing folks? Some even on this very board, yes?

 

Since I believe one of our very own sufferers also reported that certain GABA-ergics helped - then this should be extra interesting: Faso doesn't just hit exactly the mGlur's that are impaired in Schizo, it also causes GABA-B upregulation! And that's the real deal - it actually seems to help a certain percentage of patients dealing with Phenibut with-drawl, so that effect AIN'T no damn hoax!

 

 

EDIT:

 

Apparently somebody got the same idea few years back, and patented the idea! Check it out:

 

Genetic Alterations Associated with Schizophrenia and Methods of Use Thereof for the Diagnosis and Treatment of the Same

 

https://www.google.c...s/US20110269688
 

A particularly preferred agent for the treatment of schizophrenia in patients determined to have one or more of the SNPs indicative of the presence of an schizophrenia associated copy number variation, as set forth in the tables herein, is (+)-5-oxo-D-prolinepiperidinamide monohydrate (NS-105) <-- That's Fasoracetam, y'all.

 

 

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 14 July 2016 - 07:45 PM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Interestingly, oxiracetam was proposed to work for schizophrenia due to increasing signaling (NMDA?) in a specific part of the brain impaired in schizophrenics, which could attenuate the social or affective dysfunctions or something. I tried it and noticed absolutely nothing besides the usual reported effect of music sounding better.

 

Then there is NAC and l-sarcosine, d-aspartic acid and pregnenolone, all 3 of which should alleviate or reduce negative symptoms of schizophrenia via activation of the NMDA receptor or some other receptor. None of them had any positive effects in regards to my symptoms as far as I can remember.

 

Maybe those points are irrelevant. I'd like to try fasoracetam, and it's nice of you to show interest in finding a non-psychiatric treatment, but it'll be a bit difficult for me to try it due to problems with the poh leash, and I really don't want to import anymore stuff that's illegal.

Therefore, maybe someone else should try it and report his findings?

[Mind_Paralysis]

But Fasoracetam isn't illegal... unless you live in Germany or some such place, which have draconian import-laws.

 

There shouldn't be any risk - they might confiscate it, but this is not a controlled substance, in any way. As far as I understand, the structurally related Piracetam isn't a controlled substance either - and this is actually so structurally different that I'm not sure even an analogue-act can touch it.

 

This is such an obscure substance for the authorities that there is no way it should be a problem.

 

Here, a start for checking out the regulations in your jurisdiction:
https://en.wikipedia...acetam#Approval

 

If you live in Canada or the UK you can import Piracetam for personal use, no problem. I'm pretty sure this means Fasoracetam can be imported as well?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Bump. Could anyone please be the guinea pig for this? Especially if you have zero social desire, etc.

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

I'm gonna buy it soon, so I'll inform about the effects.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I'm gonna buy it soon, so I'll inform about the effects.

 

Cool.

Have you been diagnosed with some form of schizophrenic spectrum disorder though? Do you experience negative symptoms?

[MichaelTheAnhedonic]

I wasn't diagnosed with any schizo-like illness but I expierence huge negative symptoms like totally blank mind, huge anhedonia and apathy. Newest MRI scan showed Hakim's syndrome and I will be hospitilized soon. Best drug for me was ethylphenidate which is illegal now. I'm taking MPH now and it's helpful. I feel awful, like vegetable... Can't even think clearly... 

 

Oh, additional symptoms are moderate tinnitus and hearing music inside my head (not loud, musical ear syndrome probably).

Edited by MichaelTheAnhedonic, 24 July 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Maybe someone should invite YoungSchizo and other known schizophrenics to this topic

[Mind_Paralysis]

That's an excellent idea RBU! : ) It would be great to get more input and see what they have to say.

I'm afraid my burnout prevents me from doing so though... perhaps you can PM one of them?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

That's an excellent idea RBU! : ) It would be great to get more input and see what they have to say.

I'm afraid my burnout prevents me from doing so though... perhaps you can PM one of them?

Last active at April.. Sigh. Let's just hope someone reads the thread and tries it

[PeaceAndProsperity]

I probably got something wrong but... doesn't NAC do the same with respect to mGluR2/3?

"L-cysteine also serves as a precursor to cystine which in turn serves as a substrate for thecystine-glutamate antiporter on astrocytes hence increasing glutamate release into the extracellular space. This glutamate in turn acts on mGluR_2/3 receptors, and at higher doses of acetylcysteine, mGluR₅.^[64][65]"

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hmm, that does sound about the same actually, just as an indirect instead of direct agonist.

 

What part of the brain does the actual drug alter activity in though? Because as I recall it, Fasoracetam actually alters activity in the PFC - that's why it was considered as a treatment of ADHD, in part.

 

Wait... hold up... does NAC then affect global Glutamate levels? That might not be a good thing - this is a problem for ADHD-drugs at least - where most of the side-effects are derived from the non-specificity of the drugs - some parts don't need to be altered.

Then there's the question of efficacy and rate-limiting - a direct agonist doesn't have the same problems with rate-limiting enzymes as supplements do. Is there a feedback mechanism which holds back the change into Cystine? And then the effect on the cGlu-transporter.

 

It might be worth at shot though - it's certainly easier to get a hold of than Faso.

 

Read more about its properties here, cause I've got burnout again from doing school-tuition tasks, so I can't do it:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23618697

[YoungSchizo]

Bump. Could anyone please be the guinea pig for this? Especially if you have zero social desire, etc.

The right PFC area I literally feel that it is totally dysfunctional... Right now I'm recovering from an acute psychosis and my negatives are at his highest peak. If it were up to me I just want to sleep 24/7 even though I'm not depressed. I might try Fasoracetam, think I need to get back at trying some nootropics. I'll be the guinea pig

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Bump. Could anyone please be the guinea pig for this? Especially if you have zero social desire, etc.

The right PFC area I literally feel that it is totally dysfunctional... Right now I'm recovering from an acute psychosis and my negatives are at his highest peak. If it were up to me I just want to sleep 24/7 even though I'm not depressed. I might try Fasoracetam, think I need to get back at trying some nootropics. I'll be the guinea pig

 

 

AWESOME, YS! ^^

 

All right... here's a link to Ceretropic's Fasoracetam - they're one of the most reliable and trusted suppliers of Nootropics out there. If you have a moment of clarity, then you can order it from there.

 

http://www.ceretropi...racetam-powder/

 

Let us know if you need any further help!

 

Hmm, just realized that I'm not sure what an effective dose could possibly be... I guess you better start low - something like 10 mg - and if that doesn't work on the first day, then you go up to 20 mg - and then 40 mg.

 

Most people don't report hardly any difference in effect above a 100 mg, so probably not worth it to keep dosing after that.

The effects of Faso are felt within the first hour or so, so you should notice fairly quickly if it's working.

[YoungSchizo]

Thanks for the link and info! I'm ordering it next week or 2, I'll probably start at the beginning of next month. Will report back to this thread. (Hopefully you guys are on to something, my negative symptoms are very disabling :( )

[Mind_Paralysis]

Ey, btw - do you have a scale to actually weigh this stuff up? Or do you know how to do volumetric dosing, by dissolving it in water, and then portioning it?

 

I can probably help you out with some links to some of that, if you don't already know about it, that is. = )

[YoungSchizo]

Ey, btw - do you have a scale to actually weigh this stuff up? Or do you know how to do volumetric dosing, by dissolving it in water, and then portioning it?

I can probably help you out with some links to some of that, if you don't already know about it, that is. = )

I have some of those tiny scoops that can hold 3 to 7mg. So links are very welcome! (maybe I'll buy a scale too, don't know yet.)

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Ey, btw - do you have a scale to actually weigh this stuff up? Or do you know how to do volumetric dosing, by dissolving it in water, and then portioning it?

I can probably help you out with some links to some of that, if you don't already know about it, that is. = )

I have some of those tiny scoops that can hold 3 to 7mg. So links are very welcome! (maybe I'll buy a scale too, don't know yet.)

 

 

Right, here's some links on both, then. = )

 

 

http://www.braintrop...tropic-powders/
 

http://wiki.tripsit.me/wiki/Scales

 

http://wiki.tripsit....lumetric_dosing

 

 

I don't recommend just using a milligram-scoop, since the dosage still varies a lot per scooping, and different compounds have different volume - one gram of feathers does not have the same volume as one gram of LEAD.

 

You need to know how much you're taking, friend - better safe than sorry. Plus, it's easier to replicate any positive results with accurate dosing - then you can figure out if the compound has a negative bell-curve - perhaps it'll make you better until a certain dose, but if you go above that, it'll make you worse, yes?

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 14 October 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

Thanks for the links! Found a cheap and reliable source for a quality mg scale, gonna buy it!

[Mind_Paralysis]

Thanks for the links! Found a cheap and reliable source for a quality mg scale, gonna buy it!

 

Excellent YS, excellent. ^^
 

Now, do you have any sort of caps to put the powder in?

Reason I mention it, is because FASORACETAM TASTES UTTERLY *GOD*-AWFUL!

 

I do not recommend you using it sublingually... because it's so disgusting that it's hard to even put it into words. I used to feel the taste to such an extent that I was literally sweating because of negative reinforcement, every time I was redosing... had to punch walls and keep myself damn-near from crying...!

 

(It should be noted that I'm a bitter super-taster, and I really, really dislike bitter tastes - so your response most likely won't be as strong - others have however noted that it may be the most foul-tasting of all racetams - for some unknown reason.)

 

Amazon sells a ton of cheap capsules, but there are other places as well. Here's one of them in your home-nation of the UK! = )

 

http://www.bulkpowde...y-capsules.html

 

 

You can check this reddit-thread for more info as well:

 

https://www.reddit.c..._cheap_0_empty/

[PeaceAndProsperity]

https://en.wikipedia...oles_in_disease

"In addition, manipulating mGluRs can be useful in treating some conditions. For example, clinical trial suggested that an mGlu_2/3 agonist, LY354740, was effective in the treatment ofgeneralized anxiety disorder."

Is that all there's to it, those receptors only produce the extreme social anxiety in schizotypy? I don't even experience it anymore since 5 or so years ago.

[Mind_Paralysis]

https://en.wikipedia...oles_in_disease

"In addition, manipulating mGluRs can be useful in treating some conditions. For example, clinical trial suggested that an mGlu_2/3 agonist, LY354740, was effective in the treatment ofgeneralized anxiety disorder."

Is that all there's to it, those receptors only produce the extreme social anxiety in schizotypy? I don't even experience it anymore since 5 or so years ago.

 

No, that's not even close to it.

 

If it was only anxiolytic effect, then it would not have been researched as a treatment for both Alzheimers and ADHD - and let's not forget that people actually report the usual racetam-style enhancement of certain aspects of cognition on this stuff - it's actually slightly stimulating, but anxiolytic as well.

 

Also, remember that recent research have implicated areas where cognition and mood intertwine - mainly in the Glutamatergic networks.

 

When it comes to anxiety, there's actually more proof that the NMDA glutamate-receptors are more involved than the Metabotropic.

 

 

Chronic dietary magnesium-L-threonate speeds extinction and reduces spontaneous recovery of a conditioned taste aversion

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3668337/

(aversion is fear, fear is anxiety - MagLT is an NMDA-antagonist, which reduces anxiety)

 

Hippocampal NMDA receptors and anxiety: At the interface between cognition and emotion

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2824088/

 

Hippocampal synaptic plasticity, spatial memory and anxiety

http://www.nature.co...bs/nrn3677.html

 

 

With that said - remember that there are metabolic and structural differences between schizo-type and neurotypical brains - you guys have increased KYNA-production - KYNA is an endogenous NMDA-antagonist (a VERY powerful one, even! Being researched as treatment of anxiety and depression right now - my hunch is depression will fail, since AMPA is the receptor to target there, while the anxiety-trial will succeed beautifully) - so it's quite possible that people with alterations to their mGlur-receptors will have an atypical response to mGlur-agonists.

 

Do you remember that Dr. Hakon Hakonarson's study of Fasoracetam only showed effect on ADHD-children with INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY? That doesn't imply I think you or anyone schizo is ID, but it means that there was several abnormalities in the brains of those kids.

 

We both know that ADHD-ers react atypically to Stimulants, and we know CDD-ers react atypically to Norepinephrinergics (normal people find them absolutely abysmal - we don't, because we don't have the same response to NE)

 

 

When it all comes down to it, the mGlur-receptors do more than one thing, and abnormalities in brain-structure will lead to abnormal responses.

 

Schizo's have consistently shown abnormalities in PFC-structures, and the mGlur ones seem to be connected to the cognitive problems.

[Flex]

I dont know if You read it but there was a study about Memantine for negative Symptoms:

 

Tackling Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia with Memantine

https://www.hindawi....ps/2014/384783/

[YoungSchizo]

Okay, I got money. Gonna place a order tomorrow. @stinkoninjor what else is worth a shot to try? How bout NSI189? Or what do you recommend?

[YoungSchizo]

I dont know if You read it but there was a study about Memantine for negative Symptoms:

Tackling Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia with Memantine
https://www.hindawi....ps/2014/384783/

I'm so fed up with fucking psychiatrists I started writing my own prescriptions (don't tell anyone :D ). So far I tried only testosterone and CBD weed. Gonna try memantine soon, any other suggestions?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Okay, I got money. Gonna place a order tomorrow. @stinkoninjor what else is worth a shot to try? How bout NSI189? Or what do you recommend?

I don't have schizophrenia but we're probably related on many symptoms and causes nonetheless. As for me NSI189 was utterly useless. Of course it could be that I did not take it right or whatever, but it neither improved cognition nor improved any symptoms. I don't felt I felt any change at all, actually.

 

I dont know if You read it but there was a study about Memantine for negative Symptoms:

Tackling Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia with Memantine
https://www.hindawi....ps/2014/384783/

I started writing my own prescriptions

How did you do that?  A-and how was the testosterone, what did you feel?

[YoungSchizo]

Haha won't share my secret, I probably get caught one day but till that day comes I'm just writing my own prescriptions! Gonna blame Latuda afterwards, this shit has made me impulsive haha

I had a bloodtest and my total Testo came out just a tiny bit above average, asked for synthetic add-on but they declined. I haven't test it properly so I have no conclusion what it does to my symptoms.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Okay, I got money. Gonna place a order tomorrow. @stinkoninjor what else is worth a shot to try? How bout NSI189? Or what do you recommend?

 

NSI? No, I don't think it is, actually. Considering it makes even neurotypicals anxious and or manic, I actually think it could be dangerous for your schizoid-types - remember, we don't know the mode of action of NSI-189 - it's too soon to give to such high-risk patients like you guys.

 

No, I'm actually thinking ANOTHER neurogenic is what you need... DIHEXA.

 

According to a new theory, schizophrenia ISN'T cathecolaminergic or glutamatergic, as previously hypothesized - it is in fact structural - neuro-atrophic, but in a whole different way from depression.

 

According to the new studies, Schizo's have genes which cause over-production of compounds involved in regulating SYNAPTIC REMOVAL, meaning that your brains are actually degenerating to an extent, somewhat similar to Alzheimers actually. (which was the ORIGINAL old hypothesis of Schizo - that it's a form of dementia)

 

The loss of white-matter seen in Schizo's seems to correlate to the activity of these genes and their expression, so this might actually be the equivalent of the busting of the old serotonin-theory of depression - seems like dopamine was bullsh*t all along - you've got dementia, son!

 

Dihexa, could, in theory, reverse every single facet of the disease, and super-charge your brains to the point of genius - because you DO have increased dopaminergic and glutamatergic activity - and if you have that WITHOUT loss of brain-matter...!
 

 

Well, such abnormalities, have been seen in the brains of brilliant people - Einstein-level people. You do the math.

 

 

Alas, you won't find Dihexa, and anyone selling it is likely a thief and a liar - your only hope to try that, is to coax someone into starting a new group buy.

 

However, don't feel too bad about it, because unless you actually have full-blown schiz with hallucinations and a history of psychosis, then you probably don't have loss of white-matter to any greater extent, and then you probably have other aspects of the disease as more important parts of your symptoms.

 

 

I would give Fasoracetam a try BEFORE you try Memantine, because the theory regarding KYNA being responsible for some of the symptoms isn't fully debunked yet - may not be a good thing to use a NMDA-antagonist then.

 

In fact, PLEASE hold on with using that, until you have felt the effects of Faso, m'kay? : (

[Mind_Paralysis]

Haha won't share my secret, I probably get caught one day but till that day comes I'm just writing my own prescriptions! Gonna blame Latuda afterwards, this shit has made me impulsive haha

I had a bloodtest and my total Testo came out just a tiny bit above average, asked for synthetic add-on but they declined. I haven't test it properly so I have no conclusion what it does to my symptoms.

 

What's this thing with testo about?

 

I've seen other schizo's say they want to try this, or have tried it.

So far, I have seen NO trials or positive results of any kind.

 

Every theory regarding the pathophysiology of the disease revolves around three pillars:

 

Dopamine, Glutamate, and synaptogenesis.

 

As far as I know, testo may actually increase dopamine globally, which would be really, really bad, and has NO effect on the other two potential pathways.

 

Show me the studies and the reasoning here, or get outta' here with this testo thing!

 

This thing's starting to make me right proper cross it is... the science is weak as all get-out.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

They say that autism is caused by excessive synapses. But wait.. that's savant autism, very rare cases. Most cases of autism are caused by obviously neurotransmitter imbalances, that's why it's treatable (in some cases) with drugs.

Schizophrenia is the exact same. Some few schizophrenics may have such things as excessive synapse pruning but a majority evidently do not.

The simple proof against the excessive pruning model is the fact that antipsychotic medication can cause a remission and loss of schizophrenic symptoms, and also the fact that schizophrenia takes "breaks". There are days or hours where schizophrenics don't experience their symptoms.