118 replies to this topic

[farware]

And did you know that the first time Asperger was discovered, the person discovering Asperger was actually observing a group of celiac disease patients? Yea, should give you a little insight.  

[farware]

And once you realize that a gluten-free diet is nearly impossible to adhere to in today's world without spending a great deal of money since it is virtually in every product you can buy in the supermarket you will also understand that many Asperger cases are actually patients suffering from CD and would recover within 2 years on a gluten-free diet but often lack the finances to adhere to such a diet. That's reality but of course no doctor will tell you that. They'd rather try to sell you some crappy meds instead of putting you on a gluten-free diet. 

 

Only real way to manage ASD / celiac: 

• 100% paleo diet
• NAcetlyGlucosamine 
• Vitamin D + K 
• Carnosine 

And to fix the depression common in both ASD and celiac address any PEA deficiencies and inefficiencies in processing Serotonin

 

 

 

[Junk Master]

While I DO believe there is a huge overlap between those suffering CD and those on the Autistic Spectrum, and even believe that a gluten free diet can help ameliorate many of the symptoms of CD, that doesn't mean high functioning Autistics are "cured" by treating their CD.  I do think it can improve many symptoms related to CD that are often attributed to Autism but there is little doubt--

 

High functioning Autism IS a genetic disorder.   Not much doubt that ONE of the causes is exposure to high(er) levels of testosterone in the womb.

 

 

 

 

[farware]

While I DO believe there is a huge overlap between those suffering CD and those on the Autistic Spectrum, and even believe that a gluten free diet can help ameliorate many of the symptoms of CD, that doesn't mean high functioning Autistics are "cured" by treating their CD.  I do think it can improve many symptoms related to CD that are often attributed to Autism but there is little doubt--

 

High functioning Autism IS a genetic disorder.   Not much doubt that ONE of the causes is exposure to high(er) levels of testosterone in the womb.

 

Exactly. The one is a genetic defect whereas the other may also be genetic (since you need the genes in order to develop CD) but is more treatable and is a typical auto-immune disease. 

[thedevinroy]

If treated with something like Budesonide, would symptoms of autism improve?

[gamesguru]

No, because that's for Chron's disease. And on top of that, it doesn't even cure Chron's.. it just relieves the pain and diarrhea. Yeah, I just called out my own teammate. What now, Devin?

[thedevinroy]

No, because that's for Chron's disease. And on top of that, it doesn't even cure Chron's.. it just relieves the pain and diarrhea. Yeah, I just called out my own teammate. What now, Devin?

I think Autism is not something that is purely genetic or purely environmental but rather both. A cellular change takes place during a baby's development that affects its epigenetics permanently. It would be odd for a general steroid to fix such a broad range of cellular problems, but I think it would not be odd for inflammation to be comorbid with autism. I just don't think treating one relieves the other, so when you go on about the link between the two, there is really no personal practical application apart from knowing what else to look for in terms of adjacent health concerns.

It was a trick question haha.

Edited by devinthayer, 28 September 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[Junk Master]

IMO Early intervention and behavioral therapy is key.  Ameliorating the symptoms of CD will go a long way in changing behavior because those on the Spectrum will have Autistic traits amplified by the discomfort.

 

Also, awareness of comorbid anxiety and sensory issues can go a long way.  I've watched my son go from lying face down on the playground during recess in primary school, to starting in a varsity sport as a 15 year old-- and yeah, doing pretty well nationally in the Science Olympiad...lol...

 

This is after a couple years of cognitive behavioral therapy, finding an anti seizure medication that helped with his night time epilepsy (also commonly undiagnosed among those on the spectrum, as are a host of sleep disorders), and finally starting him on a low dose of Sertraline.

 

By the way, someone should really do a documentary on how many white, Science Olympiad participants are on the Spectrum!  On his team alone, 3 of the 5 white members were on the Spectrum.  I mention race only because high functioning autism IS far more common among males, and among Caucasians.

 

Being at the Science Olympiad oddly reminded me of the movie "Under the Rainbow," based on the gathering of 150 midget actors from the Wizard of Oz.  If the reference strikes you as a little odd, well, Autism/Asperger's is well acknowledged to have a hereditary componentl...if you got the reference AND are a fan of Monty Python movies, plus knew all the planets by 13 months, there's a high probability YOU are on the spectrum.

 

As for the frontier of treating Spectrum disorders, I really think the creation of virtual, role playing environments, using the Oculus rift etc. allowing anxiety free, immersive, social interaction, would be of significant help.

 

[Junk Master]

Now that I'm a bit worked up, I just had to throw this out there-- I've seen it repeated in numerous references that those on the Spectrum do not daydream about themselves or other people when their minds have a chance to wander off. 

 

http://www.medicalne...icles/43418.php

 

For me, this was a huge revelation because I always become frustrated to the point of agitation in lines, or conversely become so lost in my own multiple trains of thoughts/visuals, I miss the cue to move forward etc.  Or I would become consumed with speculative stories based on the dress, appearance of others in line.  Now, however, I make a concerted effort to cultivate the habit of "daydreaming" about accomplishing a positive life goal.  And it does make those situations less stressful.

 

Now if I could only embrace the bliss of magical thinking and cogitate up a chance meeting with Angelina Jolie...nah, I'm happily married and the last thing I need is six more kids to raise!!

[APBT]

Broccoli Sprouts in Autism Clinical Trial – New Study

•  Clinical Trial – Autistic Spectrum Disorder

 

Recent articles on Broccoli Sprouts and Autism

•  Johns Hopkins Medicine | Chemical Derived from Broccoli Sprouts Shows Promise in Treating Autism
•  Wasington Post | Study: Chemical in broccoli shows promise as autism treatment
•  Medical News Today | Could a chemical in broccoli, sprouts help treat autism?
•  ABC News | Broccoli Sprout Extract May Help Curb Autism Symptoms
•  CBS News | Broccoli compound shows promise for treating autism
•  Fox News | Molecule found in broccoli linked to improved autism symptoms
•  Forbes | Scientists Gain Autism Insight By Studying Broccoli
•  Yahoo! Health | Broccoli May Hold The Secret to Improving Autism
•  IFL Science | Chemical Extracted From Broccoli Sprouts May Help Ease Autism Symptoms
•  

[gamesguru]

Wow, thanks for sharing.  It's got to be the sulfurophane.  High glutamate and ammonia (see the gaba study) are implicated in autism.  I think low serotonin^[1], gaba and dopamine too, don't quote me.

Sulforaphane treatment of autism spectrum disorder (ASD)
Kanwaljit Singha,b, Susan L. Connorsa, Eric A. Macklinc (2014)

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD), encompassing impaired communication and social interaction, and repetitive stereotypic behavior and language, affects 1–2% of predominantly male individuals and is an enormous medical and economic problem for which there is no documented, mechanism-based treatment. In a placebo-controlled, randomized, double-blind clinical trial, daily oral administration for 18 wk of the phytochemical sulforaphane (derived from broccoli sprouts) to 29 young men with ASD substantially (and reversibly) improved behavior compared with 15 placebo recipients. Behavior was quantified by both parents/caregivers and physicians by three widely accepted measures. Sulforaphane, which showed negligible toxicity, was selected because it upregulates genes that protect aerobic cells against oxidative stress, inflammation, and DNA-damage, all of which are prominent and possibly mechanistic characteristics of ASD.

Serotonin Receptors, Novel Targets of Sulforaphane Identified by Proteomic Analysis in Caco-2 Cells
Lina Mastrangelo, Aedin Cassidy, Francis Mulholland, Wei Wang and Yongping Bao (2008)

Cancer chemopreventive activity of sulforaphane has been predominantly associated with its ability to induce phase II detoxification enzymes. In the present study, novel targets of sulforaphane were identified and characterized using a proteomics approach. Two-dimensional gel electrophoresis and mass spectrometry were used to produce protein profiles of human colon adenocarcinoma Caco-2 cells treated with 5 μmol/L sulforaphane for 48 h and control cells (0.05% DMSO). Gel comparisons showed the down-regulation to undetectable level of the serotonin receptor 5-HT3 after sulforaphane treatment. In addition, Aldo-keto reductase and d-dopachrome decarboxylase were also differentially expressed in control and treated cell extracts. To elucidate two-dimensional gel findings, the neurotransmitter receptors 5-HT3A, 5-HT1A, 5-HT2C, and the serotonin reuptake transporter were analyzed using Western blotting. Results showed a decrease of neurotransmitter receptors in a dose-dependent manner after sulforaphane treatment. Moreover, after exposure of Caco-2 cells to sulforaphane, nicotinic acetylcholine receptor protein level was increased. These findings suggested a potential effect of sulforaphane on serotonin release. Activation of neurotransmitter receptors followed by initiation of cyclic AMP signaling might be crucial events in colon carcinoma progression. Thus, the effect of sulforaphane may help to elucidate signaling pathways serotonin-mediated in colon cancer and lead to development of potential novel therapeutic agents.

Sulforaphane protects cortical neurons against 5-S-cysteinyl-dopamine-induced toxicity through the activation of ERK1/2, Nrf-2 and the upregulation of detoxification enzymes.
Vauzour D1, Buonfiglio M, Corona G, Chirafisi J, Vafeiadou K, Angeloni C, Hrelia S, Hrelia P, Spencer JP. (2010)

The degeneration of dopaminergic neurons in the substantia nigra[!] has been linked to the formation of the endogenous neurotoxin 5-S-cysteinyl-dopamine. Sulforaphane (SFN), an isothiocyanate derived from the corresponding precursor glucosinolate found in cruciferous vegetables has been observed to exert a range of biological activities in various cell populations. In this study, we show that SFN protects primary cortical neurons against 5-S-cysteinyl-dopamine induced neuronal injury. Pre-treatment of cortical neurons with SFN (0.01-1 microM) resulted in protection against 5-S-cysteinyl-dopamine-induced neurotoxicity, which peaked at 100 nM. This protection was observed to be mediated by the ability of SFN to modulate the extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1 and 2 and the activation of Kelch-like ECH-associated protein 1/NF-E2-related factor-2 leading to the increased expression and activity of glutathione-S-transferase (M1, M3 and M5), glutathione reductase, thioredoxin reductase and NAD(P)H oxidoreductase 1. These data suggest that SFN stimulates the NF-E2-related factor-2 pathway of antioxidant gene expression in neurons and may protect against neuronal injury relevant to the aetiology of Parkinson's disease.

Protective effect of combination of sulforaphane and riluzole on glutamate-mediated excitotoxicity.
Chang G1, Guo Y, Jia Y, Duan W, Li B, Yu J, Li C. (2010)

Threohydroxyaspartate (THA) causes glutamate excitotoxicity in motor neurons in organotypic culture of rat spinal cord. Some drugs, including sulforaphane (SF) and riluzole, can protect motor neuron against excitotoxicity. It has been demonstrated that SF is a potent inducer of Phase II enzymes, while riluzole is a classic anti-glutamate agent. The objective of the current study is to investigate whether the combination of SF and riluzole is superior to either one used alone. In our study, the combination of SF with riluzole not only stimulates the expression of nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2), reduced nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH): quinone oxidoreductase 1 (NQO1) and heme oxygenase 1 (HO-1), but also reduces the extracellular accumulation of glutamate. When used at optimal doses, SF (10 microM) and riluzole (5 microM), either alone or in combination, all exert significant and similar neuroprotection, as measured by the number of motor neuron, medium malondialdehyde (MDA) level and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) level. When used at low doses, the combination is better than each agent used alone. In conclusion, these results suggest the potential utility of combination use of SF and riluzole for protection of motor neuron against excitotoxicity.

 

Neuroinflammation increases GABAergic tone and impairs cognitive and motor function in hyperammonemia by increasing GAT-3 membrane expression. Reversal by sulforaphane by promoting M2 polarization of microglia.
Hernandez-Rabaza V1, Cabrera-Pastor A1, Taoro-Gonzalez L1, Gonzalez-Usano A1, Agusti A1, Balzano T1, Llansola M1, Felipo V2. (2016)

BACKGROUND: Hyperammonemia induces neuroinflammation and increases GABAergic tone in the cerebellum which contributes to cognitive and motor impairment in hepatic encephalopathy (HE). The link between neuroinflammation and GABAergic tone remains unknown. New treatments reducing neuroinflammation and GABAergic tone could improve neurological impairment. The aims were, in hyperammonemic rats, to assess whether: (a) Enhancing endogenous anti-inflammatory mechanisms by sulforaphane treatment reduces neuroinflammation and restores learning and motor coordination. (b) Reduction of neuroinflammation by sulforaphane normalizes extracellular GABA and glutamate-NO-cGMP pathway and identify underlying mechanisms. © Identify steps by which hyperammonemia-induced microglial activation impairs cognitive and motor function and how sulforaphane restores them.
METHODS: We analyzed in control and hyperammonemic rats, treated or not with sulforaphane, (a) learning in the Y maze; (b) motor coordination in the beam walking; © glutamate-NO-cGMP pathway and extracellular GABA by microdialysis; (d) microglial activation, by analyzing by immunohistochemistry or Western blot markers of pro-inflammatory (M1) (IL-1b, Iba-1) and anti-inflammatory (M2) microglia (Iba1, IL-4, IL-10, Arg1, YM-1); and (e) membrane expression of the GABA transporter GAT-3.
RESULTS: Hyperammonemia induces activation of astrocytes and microglia in the cerebellum as assessed by immunohistochemistry. Hyperammonemia-induced neuroinflammation is associated with increased membrane expression of the GABA transporter GAT-3, mainly in activated astrocytes. This is also associated with increased extracellular GABA in the cerebellum and with motor in-coordination and impaired learning ability in the Y maze. Sulforaphane promotes polarization of microglia from the M1 to the M2 phenotype, reducing IL-1b and increasing IL-4, IL-10, Arg1, and YM-1 in the cerebellum. This is associated with astrocytes deactivation and normalization of GAT-3 membrane expression, extracellular GABA, glutamate-nitric oxide-cGMP pathway, and learning and motor coordination.
CONCLUSIONS: Neuroinflammation increases GABAergic tone in the cerebellum by increasing GAT-3 membrane expression. This impairs motor coordination and learning in the Y maze. Sulforaphane could be a new therapeutic approach to improve cognitive and motor function in hyperammonemia, hepatic encephalopathy, and other pathologies associated with neuroinflammation by promoting microglia differentiation from M1 to M2.

Dietary Intake of Sulforaphane-Rich Broccoli Sprout Extracts during Juvenile and Adolescence Can Prevent Phencyclidine-Induced Cognitive Deficits at Adulthood.
Shirai Y1, Fujita Y1, Hashimoto R2, Ohi K3, Yamamori H3, Yasuda Y3, Ishima T1, Suganuma H4, Ushida Y4, Takeda M3, Hashimoto K1. (2015)

Oxidative stress and inflammation play a role in cognitive impairment, which is a core symptom of schizophrenia. Furthermore, a hallmark of the pathophysiology of this disease is the dysfunction of cortical inhibitory γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) neurons expressing parvalbumin (PV), which is also involved in cognitive impairment. Sulforaphane (SFN), an isothiocyanate derived from broccoli, is a potent activator of the transcription factor Nrf2, which plays a central role in the inducible expressions of many cytoprotective genes in response to oxidative stress. Keap1 is a cytoplasmic protein that is essential for the regulation of Nrf2 activity. Here, we found that pretreatment with SFN attenuated cognitive deficits, the increase in 8-oxo-dG-positive cells, and the decrease in PV-positive cells in the medial prefrontal cortex and hippocampus after repeated administration of phencyclidine (PCP). Furthermore, PCP-induced cognitive deficits were improved by the subsequent subchronic administration of SFN. Interestingly, the dietary intake of glucoraphanin (a glucosinolate precursor of SFN) during the juvenile and adolescence prevented the onset of PCP-induced cognitive deficits as well as the increase in 8-oxo-dG-positive cells and the decrease in PV-positive cells in the brain at adulthood. Moreover, the NRF2 gene and the KEAP1 gene had an epistatic effect on cognitive impairment (e.g., working memory and processing speed) in patients with schizophrenia. These findings suggest that SFN may have prophylactic and therapeutic effects on cognitive impairment in schizophrenia. Therefore, the dietary intake of SFN-rich broccoli sprouts during the juvenile and adolescence may prevent the onset of psychosis at adulthood.

[jack black]

And did you know that the first time Asperger was discovered, the person discovering Asperger was actually observing a group of celiac disease patients? Yea, should give you a little insight.  

 

I've heard that before, but can't find any reliable references to support it.

 

If treated with something like Budesonide, would symptoms of autism improve?

 

funny that you mentioned that. i've heard about this drug at a medical conference when GI docs discussed microscopic colitis. they admitted that it's liked to gluten sensitivity, but since "it's very hard for our adult patients to adhere to gluten free diet," they prescribe Budesonide instead. that sums up the current medical establishment.

 

Broccoli Sprouts in Autism Clinical Trial – New Study

•  Clinical Trial – Autistic Spectrum Disorder

 

Recent articles on Broccoli Sprouts and Autism

•  Johns Hopkins Medicine | Chemical Derived from Broccoli Sprouts Shows Promise in Treating Autism
•  Wasington Post | Study: Chemical in broccoli shows promise as autism treatment
•  Medical News Today | Could a chemical in broccoli, sprouts help treat autism?
•  ABC News | Broccoli Sprout Extract May Help Curb Autism Symptoms
•  CBS News | Broccoli compound shows promise for treating autism
•  Fox News | Molecule found in broccoli linked to improved autism symptoms
•  Forbes | Scientists Gain Autism Insight By Studying Broccoli
•  Yahoo! Health | Broccoli May Hold The Secret to Improving Autism
•  IFL Science | Chemical Extracted From Broccoli Sprouts May Help Ease Autism Symptoms
•  

 

 

thanks, this is news to me. i may need to grow them at home.

when i initially read your post, i thought you said Brussels's sprouts. i had them for lunch and felt much better today.

 

but it could be because i was recovering from one of the worst brain fogs i remember (granted my memory is bad) yesterday. the best i can figure out it was triggered by dinner the night before yesterday, i ate out and had ethnic soup that apparently was thickened with wheat flour, with some sausage, potatoes, and deviled eggs. then before sleep i had a snack of walnuts with a glass of milk.

 

that combination not only gave me a stupor next day, but also bad constipation and GI discomfort. this was weird because my usual gluten indiscretions give me gas and loose stools instead with minimal brain problems. i also remember from my childhood that a combination of milk, bread, and raw onions would give me an unbelievable depression next day. obviously, i dropped raw onions from my diet since. sadly, as a child i ate a lot of bread/pastry/cakes and drunk lots of milk. i was addicted to that stuff way into my middle age.

 

so anyhow, my theory is when you have a growing kid with malabsorption caused by gluten sensitivity (mind you, not a full blown celiac disease) and loading up with milk that can ferment into opioids and other foodstuff that is fermented by bad biotome to neurotoxic compounds, then you can take it for granted, there will be some brain maldevelopment.

 

some of that can happen in utero when mother is exposed to similar diet and has similar genetic susceptibility.

 

so, i agree with devinthayer that both genes and environment are probably at play here.

 

EDIT:

OMG! Brussels sprouts, as with broccoli and other brassicas, contain sulforaphane.

Edited by jack black, 29 September 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[farware]

Sulfur-containing supps: (Most Glutathione boosting supps)

 

• Alpha Lipoic Acid
• Epsom Salt
• NAC
• Taurine

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

IMO Early intervention and behavioral therapy is key.  Ameliorating the symptoms of CD will go a long way in changing behavior because those on the Spectrum will have Autistic traits amplified by the discomfort.

 

Also, awareness of comorbid anxiety and sensory issues can go a long way.  I've watched my son go from lying face down on the playground during recess in primary school, to starting in a varsity sport as a 15 year old-- and yeah, doing pretty well nationally in the Science Olympiad...lol...

 

This is after a couple years of cognitive behavioral therapy, finding an anti seizure medication that helped with his night time epilepsy (also commonly undiagnosed among those on the spectrum, as are a host of sleep disorders), and finally starting him on a low dose of Sertraline.

 

By the way, someone should really do a documentary on how many white, Science Olympiad participants are on the Spectrum!  On his team alone, 3 of the 5 white members were on the Spectrum.  I mention race only because high functioning autism IS far more common among males, and among Caucasians.

 

Being at the Science Olympiad oddly reminded me of the movie "Under the Rainbow," based on the gathering of 150 midget actors from the Wizard of Oz.  If the reference strikes you as a little odd, well, Autism/Asperger's is well acknowledged to have a hereditary componentl...if you got the reference AND are a fan of Monty Python movies, plus knew all the planets by 13 months, there's a high probability YOU are on the spectrum.

 

As for the frontier of treating Spectrum disorders, I really think the creation of virtual, role playing environments, using the Oculus rift etc. allowing anxiety free, immersive, social interaction, would be of significant help.

 

I've seen the statistics for high functioning Autism as well, and I do believe this is considered the traditional scenario.

 

I am somewhat iffy on it though...

 

Allow me to explain why: another disease which is frighteningly similar, yet also frighteningly different (like a warped mirror, if you like) also has a similar gender-disparity - Borderline "Personality Disorder" (it should be renamed EDD - Emotional Dysregulation Disorder), wherein the wast majority of sufferers are instead reported to be WOMEN!

 

However, this disparity have been challenged - because newer data, caused by digging deeper than the limitations of the old classifications, have shown that there is a considerable amount of men with the disease - simply MISdiagnosed - many men classified as ADHD or Antisocial Personality Disorder in perticular, are in fact Borderline instead.

 

The same phenomenon was true of classic ADHD as well - there is a DIFFERENCE in how the symptoms manifest between genders - it was thought that ADHD has a similar gender-disparity as High func Autism - an 80 to 20 ratio - however... newer data has shown that this is incorrect, right now, the estimate is creeping up on 40% women.

 

That's more than twice as many as the old estimates...

 

 

In fact, there is an interesting note about my own disease - CDD - Concentration Deficit Disorder (or ADD or SCT, or what-have-you) - it seems to be the only Neuropsychiatric disease which displays the same gender-ratio concerning those suffering from it. 50/50.

And I can see why they would think that - men and women seem to display sluggishness and air-headedness the same way. That, however, is nothing but coincidence. I would say it's not possible for CDD to be the ONLY Neuropsychiatric disease which shows complete gender-parity.

That's just nonsense. It's the diagnosing which is flawed.

 

 

I would say I somewhat agree with the Jack Black in that the system is flawed - I dipher though, in that I agree with Gameguru that it is, alas, the best option currently available, and as such, we don't have much choice than to keep using it for some time.
The vision should of course be to utilize more genetic-molecular and brain-anatomic data when diagnosing - especially the scanning have actually come very far - we really CAN see several of the disorders, already.
 

 

(the race thing I actually believe, because white people actually have more genetic material related to NEANDERTHALS...! As such, there is definitively going to be a few quirks between some groups - another curious one is that Keloid scarring is more common among blacks, yet very unusual among whites. Quite possibly a neanderthal feature.)

 

 

References:

------------------

Gender and autism

http://www.autism.or...-is/gender.aspx

 

(in the above link you can see how the estimates fluctuate as wildly as from 3:1 to 15:1! )

 

Gender Patterns in Borderline Personality Disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3115767/

 

Gender differences in aggression of borderline personality disorder

https://bpded.biomed...0479-015-0028-7

 

CHARACTERISTICS OF BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER IN A COMMUNITY SAMPLE: COMORBIDITY, TREATMENT UTILIZATION, AND GENERAL FUNCTIONING

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3864176/

[jack black]

Stinkor, thanks for mentioning Borderline "Personality Disorder"
I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of AS women are misdiagnosed as BPD. Can't prove it though.
Remember my suicidal female cousin with supposed BPD? Now after making my mind about AS I'm thinking she might have AD too. She might be the type who is good at masking the social issues and uses lying to cover up.
I need to talk to her about it in some diplomatic way. "Professionals" would be useless of course.

[Mind_Paralysis]

ON another note...! My mind is returning to strength - the NMDA-antagonism of MagLT actually seems to be helping - a liittle bit - seems like the effects are NOT as dramatic as I foresaw - you need quite the hefty dose...

 

BUT... you should NOT give up on NMDA-antagonism! The researchers shouldn't either. The NMDA-network is involved with nearly every other region in the brain - they control a great deal of inter-network communication - that's why antagonising them can reverse tolerance to so MANY drugs!

 

Now then... my mind is working here... could the NMDA-network be involved in neural sensitivity? Autism is well-known to also include not just Social difficulties, but to almost always include alterations to sensoric perception - light-sensitivity, sound-sensitivity - these are common problems.

 

In fact, for a few, they even have LESS social difficulties, and MORE Sensoric! : O Being able to tell decently whether someone is happy or not, but not being able to leave the house without Prescription sun-glasses! Having to live in perpetual twilight - this is reality for some Autists - and not enough effort is being put into understanding THAT aspect of the disease!

 

I have an idea though... could Autism be related to NMDA-network mitigated neuronic firing-rate? This recent data has actually found how glutamatergic neurons are controlled, and how the process regarding neuro-cellular sensitivity works...

 

Neuroscientists Identify a Protein That Allows Brain Cells to Dampen Their Sensitivity

http://scitechdaily....ir-sensitivity/

 

 

NITRO-memantine bay-bee...

 

Remember those baby Rats with autism? High-dose Nitromemantine seemed to affect their symptoms... could HIGH-yield, yet also selective, NMDA-antagonism be the answer? I know our good friend Farware has become convinced glutamateric modulation is the key as well, but I think he may have missed this part... Glutamate ultra-receptor-activity... could it be a key feature of autism symptopathology? The sensoric issues leads me to believe this... because this study just proved that there's a perticular process which can be affected, to change sensitivity to currented information within neurons.

 

I have seen studies where Nitromemantine seems to enhance synaptic growth, and I know that similar studies was recently proven with MagLT (magnesium is ALSO a non-competitive NMDA-antagonist). And isn't Synaptic super-growth one of the previously suspected pathologies of Autism? Synaptic density would have an impact on neural and sensoric sensitivity, methinks...

 

Sounds exactly like the problem to me, but what do I know! I'm just a mad-man with a highly curious way of thinking, living somewhere at the very edge of the world.

(jesus christ it's cold here...! For some reason I feel as if MagLT enhances sensoric input for me - hearing and feeling is dialed up to 11! Not emotion though, curiously - it enhances emotonal control. Could of course be NSI-189 too.)

 

 

EDIT:

 

Some interesting info here - Doreengreen mentions a few things that we need to have a look at. Autism is the most advanced of all neuropsychiatric diseases, dwarfing even the feared and dreaded schizophrenia - some complex stuff this. Glutamatergic interaction and activity seems to fit almost everything she says though, to some extent... hmm...

 

https://www.reddit.c...of_autism_some/

On another note - what are your thoughts, if any, on the whole neurodiversity claim, and it's proponents? That research is apparently not as important as education and societal evolution.

 

Personally I find it to be RUBBISH! Yeah, the evolutionary reasoning for all of these diseases makes sense - they're poly-genetic, and involve many traits, but the Stoneage was 40,000 years ago - things have changed! And evolution keeps on trucking - evolutionary failures as well - once you have too many symptoms, the cons start out-weighing the pro's IMNSHO.

 

 

Speaking for myself regarding my own neural curiosities - If there were clear genetic targets for Concentration Deficit Disorder I wouldn't hesistate a SECOND! I'd BREAK into the research labs - I'd STEAL every note on the targets, I'd detonate the locks to the nano-tech research labs, I'd deploy automatic sentries around the whole facility to keep any irritants out of my way, and I'd prepare NEW, highly experimental nano-robots with a new, curious neuro-electric control-mechanism, and inject them MYSELF!

 

Give me post-humanity or give me DEATH!

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 01 October 2016 - 06:19 PM.

[jack black]

Broccoli Sprouts in Autism Clinical Trial – New Study

•  Clinical Trial – Autistic Spectrum Disorder

 

 

Well, after thinking some more about the study, i'm not convinced it's something helpful in AS.

BTW, the full text is here: http://www.pnas.org/.../15550.full.pdf

1. it's a small study. studies like that are often not confirmed in bigger studies.

2. the dose used in the study is probably much higher than attainable in vegetables, especially as Sulforaphane is produced by pretreatment of precursors with myrosinase and it's thermolabile and destroyed when cooking (they kept it in -20C freezers).

3. the study used subjects preselected for their favorable response to fever (Sulforaphane activates heat shock pathways). I don't have that favorable response to fever, and i don't think that's been observed in AS, hence AS may not be part of the ASD as dictated by the the current dogma.

3. there is a conflict of interest thing. they patented it and then licensed it to a son of one of the researchers?

 

 Now after making my mind about AS I'm thinking she might have AD too.

 

of course i meant AS not AD, even though some people refer to that as Asperger disease.

 

ON another note...! My mind is returning to strength -

 

[...]

 

Speaking for myself regarding my own neural curiosities - If there were clear genetic targets for Concentration Deficit Disorder I wouldn't hesistate a SECOND! I'd BREAK into the research labs - I'd STEAL every note on the targets, I'd detonate the locks to the nano-tech research labs, I'd deploy automatic sentries around the whole facility to keep any irritants out of my way, and I'd prepare NEW, highly experimental nano-robots with a new, curious neuro-electric control-mechanism, and inject them MYSELF!

 

Give me post-humanity or give me DEATH!

 

Stinkor, this is a bit tongue in cheek remark, but are you sure you have that SCT/CDD and not bipolar?

Edited by jack black, 01 October 2016 - 07:33 PM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Broccoli Sprouts in Autism Clinical Trial – New Study

•  Clinical Trial – Autistic Spectrum Disorder

 

 

Well, after thinking some more about the study, i'm not convinced it's something helpful in AS.

BTW, the full text is here: http://www.pnas.org/.../15550.full.pdf

1. it's a small study. studies like that are often not confirmed in bigger studies.

2. the dose used in the study is probably much higher than attainable in vegetables, especially as Sulforaphane is produced by pretreatment of precursors with myrosinase and it's thermolabile and destroyed when cooking (they kept it in -20C freezers).

3. the study used subjects preselected for their favorable response to fever (Sulforaphane activates heat shock pathways). I don't have that favorable response to fever, and i don't think that's been observed in AS, hence AS may not be part of the ASD as dictated by the the current dogma.

3. there is a conflict of interest thing. they patented it and then licensed it to a son of one of the researchers?

 

 Now after making my mind about AS I'm thinking she might have AD too.

 

of course i meant AS not AD, even though some people refer to that as Asperger disease.

 

ON another note...! My mind is returning to strength -

 

[...]

 

Speaking for myself regarding my own neural curiosities - If there were clear genetic targets for Concentration Deficit Disorder I wouldn't hesistate a SECOND! I'd BREAK into the research labs - I'd STEAL every note on the targets, I'd detonate the locks to the nano-tech research labs, I'd deploy automatic sentries around the whole facility to keep any irritants out of my way, and I'd prepare NEW, highly experimental nano-robots with a new, curious neuro-electric control-mechanism, and inject them MYSELF!

 

Give me post-humanity or give me DEATH!

 

Stinkor, this is a bit tongue in cheek remark, but are you sure you have that SCT/CDD and not bipolar?

 

 

Heh heh... now, considering the way I sometimes write, one could easily think so, now couldn't ya'? ^^

 

It's interesting though - I've been resistant for some time to the idea that I have BOTH ADHD and CDD, but I'd say my recent bouts with burnout and subsequent medication with NSI-189 have proven me wrong - I do have some true ADHD-traits, it's just to a smaller extent than my CDD-issues.

 

NSI-189 actually seems to disinhibit me to some extent - feels a bit like a mixed episode. I'd say it would appear as if my ADHD-traits were almost completely suppressed before, but current extreme conditions have made them resurface.

 

I really am a Ritalin-kid after all, I guess.

 

(well, to maybe 20%, as that seems to be the ultimate extent that stimulants help me - the rest is CDD.)

[thedevinroy]

I would not be the least bit surprised if partial NMDA antagonists are effective for reducing symptoms of autism - especially sensory perception as mentioned. I remember reading somewhere that the glutamatergic neurons of autistic patients are on overdrive to the point of epilepsy or micro-seizures in some cases. I would definitely recommend adequate magnesium and zinc levels and avoiding aspartate, glutamate, aspartame, MSG, but having good levels of glutamine is fine and even pyroglutamate analogues to some degree is fine.

Let me see if I can find a study...

I found some but none that conclusive one way or another. The NMDAR genes seem to be affected and modulation or suppression seems to help:

http://www.sciencedi...471489214001350

Also, Memantine is used off-label for ADHD and OCD (consequently autism):

http://bipolarnews.org/?p=1516

I myself took Memantine for years. Loved it. Allowed me to stay focused and calm. Unfortunately, new job, new girlfriend changed the demands of my cognition, so I switched to Atomoxetine, which still has some NMDA-antagonistic properties at pharmacologically significant doses. I would say the greatest difference between the two is the fear response. Memantine does not affect fear response but Atomoxetine does, and that's what I felt I needed in order to be in a more emotionally responsive state (but unfortunately also more vulnerable).

This is just one angle of managing the symptoms. Autism is a broad category of specific anomalies in human behavior which could stem from any number of origins. The end results are always the same behaviorally and they seem to have some commonality in terms of neuronal development and immune system development. Still, until we break down the spectrum by root causes, we are just treating the symptoms. We're prescribing cough medicine for the flu because we don't know what kind of flu it is, and if we did, we would have an antiviral ready to go.

As far as inattention and hyperactivity is concerned, there are a number of treatments approved and off label. It's all try and see.

Edited by devinthayer, 02 October 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[Junk Master]

As far as sulforaphane is concerned, I've tried broccoli sprouts, growing my own broccoli sprouts, sulforaphane supplements, and about the only thing I can say is, sure eating more broccoli can't be a bad thing for your health.

 

However, one of my classic bad supplement stories was when I bought a kilo of dried broccoli sprout powder off ebay (probably from China...).  Good god!  It tasted like mix of dirt, wood dust, fecal matter, dried, ground compose...you get the idea.  AND I felt obligated to at least try and finish it, since I PAID for it.  I kept trying to mask the taste in every manner of protein shake, and every way imaginable...mixing it in zucchini bread etc...all to no avail!

 

Finally, I was so sensitized to the slight rotting plant matter taste I started getting nauseous just opening the foil bag, and I had only run through approximately 1/3.  I poured it on the compost pile and watched a mass exodus of mice and night crawlers...lol.

 

Interesting about the Memantine, always wanted to mess with that.  

 

I think Topamax, which my son takes for his night time epilepsy, has also helped stabilize his mood-- though better sleep is paramount!  

 

[thedevinroy]

Sounded like a struggle to get that much sulforaphane in your system. And for it to not cross the BBB that well I'd say there is room for pharmaceutical development.

[Junk Master]

Completely, devin!

 

I mean, you can find TONS of studies showing positive effects, like--

 

"Several in vitro and in vivo studies have demonstrated the ability of SF to prevent various neurodegenerative processes that underlie stroke, traumatic brain injury, AD, and PD. The ability of SF to exert neuroprotective effects in different acute and chronic neurodegenerative diseases could be ascribed to its peculiar ability to activate the Nrf2/ARE pathway. Nrf2 is a recent therapeutic target in neurodegenerative diseases because it regulates several genes that have been implicated in protection against neurodegenerative conditions [121, 122]. In this context, SF presents many advantages, such as good pharmacokinetics and safety after oral administration as well as the potential ability to penetrate the BBB and deliver its neuroprotective effects in the central nervous system [123]. Based on these considerations, SF appears to be a promising compound with neuroprotective properties that may play an important role in preventing neurodegenerative diseases."

 

https://www.hindawi....cl/2013/415078/

 

Or

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2862133/

 

On and on...

 

But something like this--

 

"

Design and synthesis of bifunctional isothiocyanate analogs of sulforaphane: correlation between structure and potency as inducers of anticarcinogenic detoxication enzymes"

 

http://pubs.acs.org/...021/jm00027a021

 

Might be pretty cool.

 

I just don't think growing your own sprouts in a mason jar, or under LED lighting is going to cut it.  I'm not shelling out for commercial supplements, and certainly not for Broccoli Sprout powder!

 

Clearly there is an injectable version--

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/15486191

 

Kind of like to get my hands on some if insulin needle compatible...have to look into it.

 

Cuz who wants to eat a couple pounds of broccoli a day?

 

 

 

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

YO! Just saw something which I think might be useful here...

 

Dr. Kevin T. Blake is a friend and colleague of Dr. Russell Barkley, and like him, an expert on Neuropsychiatric disease - ADHD, Dyslexia and Autism in perticular.

 

He mentions something interesting on his blog...

 

http://drkevintblake.com/

 

 

Developmentally Disconnected: Evidence-Based Tools for Transforming Social Competence

Traditionally, social deficits that accompany developmental disorders have been attributed to a lack of social skills knowledge. Therapies designed to help have been heavily weighted toward social skills training, often resulting in minimal, plodding progress while clients continue to face verbal and non-verbal communication barriers at home, in the classroom, and beyond. Recent research utilizing advanced brain imaging techniques has identified neurobiological deficits that underlie your clients’ difficulties in social interaction. This one-day seminar will teach you to address these deficits in complement with skills coaching, giving you the tools to guide clients to their full social potential. Review exciting research on the unique neurophysiology associated with neurobiological disorders and its effect on social expression and interaction. Discuss changes to diagnostic criteria in the DSM-5®, and discover effective treatments for a wide variety of the most common neurosocial problems.

 

 

Now what the H*LL is that supposed to mean?? Is he telling us that there is now fresh, NEW data on which parts of the brain are the most involved in social cues, and that they are, as we speak, working on new social training techniques, which modulates the activity there, to produce some actual results on social skills?

It actually seems like it, to me...

 

Boys, perhaps it's in order to E-mail the good Dr. Blake and ask him if there are some online resources regarding this data, and these techniques? The fact that you all are high-functioning especially makes me think it could be helpful - if there's a new and better system, then I figure it's best to go with that.

 

 

PLUS! With new info on social cue -centers in the brain, we could dig up better potential drugs and potential targets! = )

 

 

EDIT:

 

I found a section with interesting youtube-links on Dr. Blake's site.

 

http://drkevintblake...-and-syndromes/

 

Especially THIS one, seems interesting to me.

 

Gastrointestinal and *Mitochondrial* Disorders Associated with Autism

http://www.cleveland...ctrum-disorders

 

Mitochondrial disorders? Really? First I've ever heard of this... But it's an interesting note - what do you figure, Jack? Is mitochondrial modulation a potential way of treatment? Not sure how on Earth one goes about doing that, but it's something which I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 13 October 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[jack black]

Stinkor, this is all interesting and I watched a few videos, but I'm not entirely convinced the general info on ASD is all that relevant to AS.

But while searching I came across something new to me: pathological demand avoidance as part or variant of ASD. This would explain a lot of behavior in some of my family members.

http://www.autism.or...hat-is/pda.aspx

[jack black]

OMG: i discovered something new on autism:

 

 

Elevated serotonin (hyperserotonemia) is one of the most common biological findings in autism^[3] and 5-HIAA may be elevated in patients with autistic spectrum disorders.

 

https://en.wikipedia...doleacetic_acid

 

I suspect i have that elevated serotonin and that causes some anxiety problems. I also discovered that increasing serotonin by high doses of 5HTP makes me more anxious and more penalty sensitive. decreasing serotonin via tianeptine makes me sedated and tired. tianeptine with low dose 5HTP seems to be the best combo so far.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

decreasing serotonin via tianeptine makes me sedated and tired. tianeptine with low dose 5HTP seems to be the best combo so far.

I know you've said that you are avoiding me, but besides 5htp removing the sedation and tiredness, why do you think that it's the low serotonin that makes you sedated and tired? I don't think tianeptine is that strong and especially not if you have high serotonin to begin with. Studies indicate that its effects on lowering serotonin aren't impressive at all and tianeptine does many other things that could cause those experiences. High serotonin causes sedation and fatigue.

When I took 15 grams of a BCAA complex to lower serotonin I was not at all even close to being fatigued

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Not much doubt that ONE of the causes is exposure to high(er) levels of testosterone in the womb.

I wanted to comment on this before but I'll do it now.

It doesn't fit 90% of the people who self-diagnose it or are diagnosed with it. The masculinized brain doesn't have sexual partners and friends, and doesn't prefer being social, partying and so on. The masculine brain doesn't adopt socially fashionable ways of speaking and thinking like we see on forums for autism. The masculinized brain doesn't want to "feel good, have a good time," "live life to the fullest" and bla bla bla.

 

If anything I match the expectations in many ways of a prenatally masculinized male. I always hated feminine people, social people, always hated when the kids didn't want to focus on the play but rather wanted to focus on the socializing. Always was very obsessed with social roles of men having to behave one way and women having to behave another and no gender mixing bs. I was always extremely angered when I perceived that the girls were not behaving as they should and as with the boys, and I still am to this day. In fact, women and children and effeminate men anger me more than anything else. THAT is a clear cut example of being masculinized, THAT is what you find in masculinized autistic people.

Edited by RatherBeUnknown, 31 October 2016 - 07:49 PM.

[Junk Master]

Interesting...

 

I'm not following how your description of the masculinized brain doesn't fit 90 % of those who are self diagnosed or diagnosed?

 

I don't think anyone who loves partying, other than for the anxiety quelling aspects of alcohol, or the social "mask" alcohol allows us to adopt, would self diagnose.

 

Also, I don't think anyone who prefers being social, or considers themselves a socially adept would self-diagnose.

 

I do find it interesting that you would have been extremely angered by effeminate men, and obsessed with social roles and gender bias.  Anyone else out there self diagnosed, or diagnosed share the same obsessions?

 

For me, it was dinosaurs, then ichthyology, entomology, the combination of which led to fly fishing and fly tying.  And books, always books...solitary pursuits...yet I was able to function in athletics because I began early, and rigid rules, helmets, uniforms, made it easy to role play, ameliorate social anxiety by understanding the myriad of unwritten rules...

[PeaceAndProsperity]

Interesting...

 

I'm not following how your description of the masculinized brain doesn't fit 90 % of those who are self diagnosed or diagnosed?

 

I don't think anyone who loves partying, other than for the anxiety quelling aspects of alcohol, or the social "mask" alcohol allows us to adopt, would self diagnose.

 

Also, I don't think anyone who prefers being social, or considers themselves a socially adept would self-diagnose.

 

I do find it interesting that you would have been extremely angered by effeminate men, and obsessed with social roles and gender bias.  Anyone else out there self diagnosed, or diagnosed share the same obsessions?

 

For me, it was dinosaurs, then ichthyology, entomology, the combination of which led to fly fishing and fly tying.  And books, always books...solitary pursuits...yet I was able to function in athletics because I began early, and rigid rules, helmets, uniforms, made it easy to role play, ameliorate social anxiety by understanding the myriad of unwritten rules...

If you cured the social anxiety and issues with interpreting social situations then most self-diagnosed and clinically-diagnosed with autism would partake in parties and other social gatherings, because they want to be hypersocial but they just can't be it.

 

One of the things that distinguishes men and women is that women believe that everything is relative and up to what you feel or believe but not concrete, set in stone, or determined by laws and so on. An example of this feminine way of thinking is when you say, "social roles and gender bias" as if these things aren't self-evidently true.

 

Another thing that distinguishes men and women is that women are very prone to adopt new ways of thinking and behaving, especially in speech. Men are much less able to "adapt" and typically don't want to - that's a symptom of autism, namely called resistance to change.

 

A third thing that distinguishes men and women, according to some brain studies (wow, I thought it was socially wrong to make distinctions between men and women, but this time it's alright!) is that women have a better memory and more developed language skills and this is universally the case among all races. Interestingly, since people with asd tend to have unusually good language skills and memory that would actually go against the notion that asd people are "extremely masculinized" (the testosterone model of autism).

[gamesguru]

It's also called maladaption, and can be kept in check only with a little effort.  Scientists also found girls are far more social, even from infancy.  That includes gossip and competitive instinct.  They also tend to put a lot more weight in what others think, but less in what they feel.  B*tches literally care more about feeling good than being good.  They also expect a free lunch and better genetics.. they want someone more successful than them, more successful than their current suitor.  They want to be taken care of, not to help.  They can't love unconditionally, they always look for faults.  They are behind most divorces, and they are enemies of the church (not that I'm not).  They also have no negative humor and expect to feel good and constantly valued.. even despite the fact they are the ones constantly showered with attention, to the point of indifference toward ordinary men.  But to be fair, they're just responding to evolutionary pressure.  Their nature was affixed during the Pleistocene, which was a pretty rough patch in human history.  Head hunting of neighboring tribes, ambushes of saber toothed tigers, and long unforgiving winters.. amid such conditions it's perhaps not so surprising that we (guys too) adapted to valuing optimism and extroversion to such a considerable extent.

Edited by gamesguru, 01 November 2016 - 02:32 AM.