20 replies to this topic

[LiveWell]

To start off with, I live in California, a medical marijuana state, and I have my medical recommendation. Therefore it IS legal for me to possess and as long as I obey state laws, the feds can't come after me (https://news.vice.co...ollow-state-law).

 

Ok, now that I've gotten that out of the way, I have noticed that with cannabis, especially sativa dominant strains, I tend to be able to focus and my thoughts are more rapid/fluid than normal. And I'm not completely alone... http://www.longecity...as-a-nootropic/

 

I can easily focus on a topic for longer and I generally come up with creative solutions to problems that I can't come up with when I'm sober. But if I remember the outcome of the session, I certainly don't remember the details of how I came to that conclusion. I'd need to use a voice recorder to take it all down, but let's be honest, I don't want to listen to 2 hours of rambling to get to the pay-off.

 

I was wondering if anyone has experimented with low THC cannabis as a possible nootropic. There are different strains such as Cannatonic, Charlotte's Web, Harlequin... that have low amounts (sometimes less than .5%) of THC and shouldn't get you high. Do they offer the same kinds of focus and mental clarity with the added ability to recall details?

 

Please, if you don't live in a medical or recreational use area, don't reply and incriminate yourself.

[fiftyyy]

Been smoking for 10+ years, in my opinion the key to triggering the nootropic effects of weed, without suffering the short term memory side effect, is to smoke in moderation. I always thought that most sativa dominant strains are high in THC, havent tried the ones you listed, but they definitely grabbed my attention. Unfortunately, i've not had great experience with high CBD strains as it comes to maintaining my energy levels or focus.

[gamesguru]

Ginger, a COX-2 inhibitor, will help the situation.  but there are other targets, like p38 and NF-kB, or even CB1 antagonists like falcerinol or voacanga africana

[fiftyyy]

Ginger, a COX-2 inhibitor, will help the situation.  but there are other targets, like p38 and NF-kB, or even CB1 antagonists like falcerinol or voacanga africana

American ginseng is also a COX2 inhibitor as far i know. Definitely can feel its effects in reversing the THC activity, speaking from personal experience.

[LiveWell]

Ginger, a COX-2 inhibitor, will help the situation.  but there are other targets, like p38 and NF-kB, or even CB1 antagonists like falcerinol or voacanga africana

 

Fresh ginger is an absolute staple in my house so that'll be easy to try. I'll have to google the others. Thanks for the info. 

 

 

Ginger, a COX-2 inhibitor, will help the situation.  but there are other targets, like p38 and NF-kB, or even CB1 antagonists like falcerinol or voacanga africana

 

American ginseng is also a COX2 inhibitor as far i know. Definitely can feel its effects in reversing the THC activity, speaking from personal experience.

 

 

American Ginseng, that's easy to get. I'll have to check that out. Thanks a lot!

[gamesguru]

The ginseng helps with avolition more than memory, you're still forgetful but you're at least motivated. Green tea helps with the memory, but you're still meditative. Theanine is supposed to help with dependence, but it's not as effective as gabapentin/preg, NAC, buspirone or ibogaine.

[LiveWell]

The ginseng helps with avolition more than memory, you're still forgetful but you're at least motivated. Green tea helps with the memory, but you're still meditative. Theanine is supposed to help with dependence, but it's not as effective as gabapentin/preg, NAC, buspirone or ibogaine.

 

Avolition (aka couch-lock) is typically more associated with indicas than sativas. I was into that as a kid but as an adult, I prefer things that are a bit more stimulating.

 

Myrcine, which is prevalent in both indica strains of cannabis and mangoes, is what tends to lean the effects toward indicas rather than sativas. More Myrcine, less ambition. Not sure if it has those properties on its own, but in combination with THC it certainly does.

 

Personally I try to stay away from Theanine. It makes me stupid, like just standing there wondering what I'm supposed to be doing, kinda stupid.

Edited by LiveWell, 26 October 2016 - 10:05 PM.

[LiveWell]

I always thought that most sativa dominant strains are high in THC, havent tried the ones you listed, but they definitely grabbed my attention. Unfortunately, i've not had great experience with high CBD strains as it comes to maintaining my energy levels or focus.

 

I have a few links for you...
https://www.leafly.c...brid/cannatonic

https://www.leafly.c.../charlottes-web

https://www.leafly.c...ativa/harlequin

[gamesguru]

iirc sativas are higher in THCV^[1] and lower in CBD^[2], these cannabinoids both oppose THC in their own way at very low doses (<10mg).  the myrcene is interesting, but it's active only over 200mg and is present in the plant at around just 0.5%.. so i'm doubtful it has much effect, or do the other terpnoids and essential oils.  averaged between sativas and indicas, CBD is around 1.5% and THCV occurs at up to 0.4%.  and they are far more potent ligands than the terpenes.  other papers have speculated that levels of those cannbinoids can affect the high, and for CBD the evidence is already quite strong.

 

Well the theanine you take in the afternoon while you're itching for your first smoke; it doesn't totally quell the cravings, but it's certainly better than nothing.

 

Tea is definitely meditative and to me this is a good thing, but to say it makes you feel stupid is way more negative.  It focuses you, but can also promote non-linear thinking.  Coffee is more scattered, every path is explored.. the non-linear bits are more in the foreground as conscious tangents.  sativas seem to be more scrambly, perhaps fragmented, while the indica is meditative, helping you to achieve the highly sought blank state described by the buddhists.  neither sativa nor indica seems to help much with chess, regrettably.

THCV is more strongly psychoactive than THC, but only has about half the duration of THC. THCV is also a protagonist of THC, modifying the effects of THC. The energetic effect of THCV is more pronounced and stronger.

 

THCV has been found to reduce or even block panic attacks and, as a result, can be highly effective in the management of PTSD and other mental disorders involving anxiety or stress, as shown in research in places like Israel, where a great amount of cannabis research is done. THCV doesn’t appear to suppress emotions, only the ability to panic, associated with Fight or Flight response.

 

THCV has also been shown to reduce tremors associated with diseases such as Parkinson’s, along with ailments associated with motor control. There is also promising research demonstrating reduction of brain lesions associated with Parkinson’s.

THCV also stimulates bone cell growth, and has potential in the treatment of osteoporosis and similar ailments; possibly even in the micro gravity of space, to combat the loss of bone mass.

 

A side effect of THCV that requires attention is its strongly anorectic effect. If a patient is already having difficulty eating, THCVs appetite suppression can be a detriment.

 

Tetrahydrocannabivarinic Acid (THCV-A) is very similar to THC-A, and although it has yet to be properly studied, it is assumed to be anti-inflammatory.

Originally THCV was most commonly isolated in landrace sativas from the southern and central African continent. Until recently, THCV was only available in small concentrations in saliva strains like Durban Poison, which on average yield upwards of 0.5% THCV in a THC dominant plant. Such plants have a THC:THCV ratio of 20:1 or greater.

Several years ago, a strain named Pineapple Purps (archived test shown below) was created with a ratio of 3:1, and yielding 12% THC and 4% THCV. In the last year, a new strain, Doug’s Varin was created, with a ratio of 6:7 THC:THCV. This is the first strain we have evaluated that has more THCV than THC. All the high THCV plant strains we have observed are of the classic tall, lanky, narrow leaved sativa appearing variety.

http://steephilllab....f-cannabinoids/

 

on the other hand, CBD protects against THC-induced psychotomimetic effects, restores cognitive and emotional processing, as well as motor and immune deficits.  you don't need a degree in medicine to see that strains rich in other cannbinoids are worth exploring.

Edited by gamesguru, 26 October 2016 - 10:35 PM.

[fiftyyy]

The ginseng helps with avolition more than memory, you're still forgetful but you're at least motivated. Green tea helps with the memory, but you're still meditative. Theanine is supposed to help with dependence, but it's not as effective as gabapentin/preg, NAC, buspirone or ibogaine.

 
Avolition (aka couch-lock) is typically more associated with indicas than sativas. I was into that as a kid but as an adult, I prefer things that are a bit more stimulating.
 
Myrcine, which is prevalent in both indica strains of cannabis and mangoes, is what tends to lean the effects toward indicas rather than sativas. More Myrcine, less ambition. Not sure if it has those properties on its own, but in combination with THC it certainly does.
 
Personally I try to stay away from Theanine. It makes me stupid, like just standing there wondering what I'm supposed to be doing, kinda stupid.

 
Another option that really helps me with memory, while intoxicated, is acetylcholine, im a big fan of Alpha GPC. Havent tried weed + threanine, but if you really want to feel stupid (for the lols) try weed + ashwagandha. :D  I used to drink a lot of green tea, i think its a decent alternative to theanine.
 
 

I have a few links for you...
https://www.leafly.c...brid/cannatonic
https://www.leafly.c.../charlottes-web
https://www.leafly.c...ativa/harlequin

 
Literally the first place i went to after reading the OP. Gonna look out for those strains on my next trip to Amsterdam. 
 
 

The ginseng helps with avolition more than memory, you're still forgetful but you're at least motivated. Green tea helps with the memory, but you're still meditative. Theanine is supposed to help with dependence, but it's not as effective as gabapentin/preg, NAC, buspirone or ibogaine.

Dependence? There's no dependence to weed, maybe except for the slight addiction to the feeling/state of carefree.

Edited by fiftyyy, 26 October 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[LiveWell]

Well the theanine you take in the afternoon while you're itching for your first smoke; it doesn't totally quell the cravings, but it's certainly better than nothing.

 
Cravings? Do you generally smoke blunts or add tobacco to it? I've never had a craving for it. Chocolate and heroin, yes. Weed, no.
And I only used heroin twice. It was TOO GOOD. I knew I'd lose my life to it. And that was over 20 years ago.
 

the myrcene is interesting, but it's active only over 200mg and is present in the plant at around just 0.5%.. so i'm doubtful it has much effect, or do the other terpnoids and essential oils.

 
That's possible as a single compound but with cannabis you have the "entourage effect" and what may not be psychoactive by itself, could be quite different when combined with other compounds. Also, inhaling, rather than consuming it orally, could drastically lower the amount required to have a noticeable effect.
 

But one of the things you might want to pay the most attention to with this one is that if a strain has over 0.5% myrcene, Steep Hill Labs has found that it will have an indica or “couch-locking” effect, and if the strain has less than 0.5% myrcene, it will have uplifting sativa-like effects. - from - https://www.learngre...ativa-all-wrong

 

Charlotte's Web is a sativa with approximately 20:1 ratio of CBD to THC and is said to increase focus and creativity. Technically, I guess the low THC content could classify it as hemp, rather than marijuana, but both are cannabis so I choose to keep it in the discussion.

 

I want to try it but the nearest dispensary that carries it is approximately 2 hours away, last time I looked. :-(

Edited by LiveWell, 27 October 2016 - 03:37 PM.

[LiveWell]

 

Another option that really helps me with memory, while intoxicated, is acetylcholine, im a big fan of Alpha GPC. Havent tried weed + threanine, but if you really want to feel stupid (for the lols) try weed + ashwagandha. :D  I used to drink a lot of green tea, i think its a decent alternative to theanine.

 

 

I take 500 mg of Jarrows CDP Choline every day. Great stuff. Helps clear out the cobwebs in my head but I've never taken them both around the same time. I might have to try that.

 

weed + ashwagandha... Thanks, I'll pass. 

 

And Green Tea contains L-Theanine. That's part of why the caffeine buzz isn't as strong as with a comparable amount of caffeine from coffee.

[gamesguru]

There's no dependence to weed

 

whatever you say cutie.  The other supplements (ginger) might make the 0.25-0.5g range really seamless and productive.  But not above that.

 

That's possible as a single compound but with cannabis you have the "entourage effect" and what may not be psychoactive by itself, could be quite different when combined with other compounds. Also, inhaling, rather than consuming it orally, could drastically lower the amount required to have a noticeable effect.

 

It's also possible it just gets stuck to your esophagus and lungs and doesn't absorb through the mucosal lining, generally only volatile ones will absorb.  But there is evidence of local dilation and enhanced uptake of THC!  The proper technique is to take a deep toke, hold a few seconds, then start making partial breaths in and out to whisk the medicine around your alveoli (about 5-10 until you completely exhale).

It’s been reported that certain terpenes dilate capillaries in the lungs. Logic tells us that this would be useful in the case of smoked or vaporized cannabis. Dilated capillaries would enable beneficial cannabinoids to enter the bloodstream easier

Terpenoids can be used for more than countering THC-induced anxiety. Russo discussed interactions to treat a number of issues including: pain, inflammation, depression, addiction, epilepsy, cancer, and infections.

 

Because of their stronger baseline activity, the THCV and CBD are far more likely to be subject to the entourage effect.  That's why I suspect, much to the chagrin of hippies, that in the ultimate examination, THCV and CBD strains (which reduce the THC under 0.5%) will show the most brain benefits.  And no, I use a vaporizer.  It's super effective.  Can't eat, sleep or think straight without at least a few puffs.

 

Just a word on ginseng and other roots.  Though it is a eudicot while ginger and turmeric are monoclots, and though the active chemicals have no structural similarities, they share common mechanisms of action in the human body, and it is interesting to suppose they diverged from a common Indian ancestor, before the Devonian extinction and drifting of north America (where ginseng is native) from Eurasia (ginger and turmeric).  Evidence for a common ancestor between turmeric and ginger is especially strong, both belonging to the zingiberales family.  While noxious to most herbivores, these roots may have formed co-dependent relationships with specialized amensals, such as clownfish with the sea anemone, or the mule deer with nightshade, with some similarities even to the pangolin with crazy ants and grasshopper mice with scorpions.

The effects can be seen at the organelle level, mitochondria, the endoplasmic reticulum and golgi apparatus all benefit the same.  All three roots inhibit COX-2 and LOX enzymes, promote Nrf2/pi3k/neurotrophins, and have broad antioxidant/vasodilatory effects. Both ginseng and ginger are 5-HT3 antagonists (anti-nausea), and both ginger and turmeric regulate hormone production.  Turmeric and ginger have MAOI and monoamine- promoting effects.

Edited by gamesguru, 27 October 2016 - 04:31 PM.

[LiveWell]

@gamesguru, I will see your condescension and raise you sarcasm. 
 
Begin Sarsasm: I'm thrilled to know that we have found a cannabis expert who knows more than people who make their living in cannabis such as Green Flower Media and Steep Hill testing lab. End Sarcasm.

 

I don't pull these things out of thin air. I do the research before I post them. This first one was linked to in my previous post but I'll share the exact text from Steep Hill just so you don't doubt me.
 

The amount of Myrcene in a cannabis sample is what dictates the indica or sativa effect. If a sample has over 0.5% Myrcene, it will have indica, or “couch-lock” effects. If a sample has less than 0.5% Myrcene, it will have the soaring Sativa effect. It is simply the amount of Myrcene that is in the sample that dictates how you will be effected.

- http://steephilllab....dica-or-sativa/

 

And on a note of the correct method of inhaling and exhaling...

 

According to Aggarwal, full THC absorption occurs “within milliseconds” (a few thousandths of a second). To human perceptual standards, absorption is virtually instantaneous during an inhale.

Virtually instantaneous. Hold that thought (but not your breath) and read on to learn more.

...

Personally, I slowly and smoothly inhale, pulling in smoke or vapor for the first two-thirds of the toke. For the last one-third of the inhale, I take in a breath of clean air. I inhale as deeply as possible.

...

A nice, deep breath also helps ensure that the remote recesses of the lungs are exposed to smoke or vapor, which actually improves lung function (ask any asthmatic who embraces cannabis).

- https://www.learngre...cannabis-2016-3

 

Look, we're all here to learn from each other. Your condescension was completely unnecessary and thank you for removing some of it when you edited your post. You seem like an educated person, far more educated than I am, but you don't have to be so rude about it. Let's all toke up and have a nice day.

[gamesguru]

It may be that indicas have more myrcene, but who said it's more significant factor than THCV/CBD?  In my opinion, those clearly dominate, while the terpenoids are more inert byproducts.

 

You could test this hypothesis by ingesting lemongrass with your sativa.  Lemongrass, I'm sure you're aware, contains myrcene as well as some citral, limonene, and pinene.  It does not however contain CBD or THCV.. nor, as I think you will find, does it effectively simulate the indica experience.

 

 

Plus, CBD is also higher in indicas.  However this study reports THCV is higher in indicas.  This is contradictory to my link to steephill's article on THCV.  Maybe this just shows the whole indica vs. sativa thing is more myth than fact, or perhaps steephills is wrong about THCV being high in sativas and the academic journal is on point.

 

Am J Bot. 2004 Jun;91(6):966-75.

A chemotaxonomic analysis of cannabinoid variation in Cannabis (Cannabaceae).

Hillig KW¹, Mahlberg PG.

Abstract

Cannabinoids are important chemotaxonomic markers unique to Cannabis. Previous studies show that a plant's dry-weight ratio of Δ(9)-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) to cannabidiol (CBD) can be assigned to one of three chemotypes and that alleles B(D) and B(T) encode alloenzymes that catalyze the conversion of cannabigerol to CBD and THC, respectively. In the present study, the frequencies of B(D) and B(T) in sample populations of 157 Cannabis accessions were determined from CBD and THC banding patterns, visualized by starch gel electrophoresis. Gas chromatography was used to quantify cannabinoid levels in 96 of the same accessions. The data were interpreted with respect to previous analyses of genetic and morphological variation in the same germplasm collection. Two biotypes (infraspecific taxa of unassigned rank) of C. sativa and four biotypes of C. indica were recognized. Mean THC levels and the frequency of B(T) were significantly higher in C. indica than C. sativa. The proportion of high THC/CBD chemotype plants in most accessions assigned to C. sativa was <25% and in most accessions assigned to C. indica was >25%. Plants with relatively high levels of tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) and/or cannabidivarin (CBDV) were common only in C. indica. This study supports a two-species concept of Cannabis.

 

And how many studies found that THC is absorbed instantly, just one study?  Seems legit, bro

And how much personal experience weighs in favor of exhaling immediately being a waste of weed?  Just a lil food4thot

 

https://www.whaxy.co...nnabivarin-THCV
https://www.leafly.c...-effects-of-thc

[LiveWell]

Your link https://www.whaxy.co...nnabivarin-THCV has a section that says
 

Psychoactive Like THC[/size]
Unlike most other cannabinoids, but like THC, THCV is a psychoactive component that results in an energetic, alert, and motivated euphoria—quite the opposite of an indica or indica-dominant strain that will produce more of a stoned, couchlocked effect. THCV actually enhances the psychedelic high derived from THC, delivering more rapid onset and potency. On the downside, cannabis strains high in THCV also have “shorter legs,” meaning their effects do not last as long as THC-dominant types.

 
and the word "couchlocked" links to https://www.whaxy.co...yrcene-cannabis which says
 

It is found in more plants than simply marijuana, however. Myrcene is also produced in high amounts in mangos, basil, hops, lemon grass, and other plants. The amount of myrcene in a particular sample of cannabis determines if the plant will exhibit an indica or sativa effect.
 
Steep Hill Labs reports that marijuana samples with more than 0.5 percent myrcene will be indica, while those with less than 0.5 percent will be sativa. Myrcene is a constituent element of menthol and citronella and is arguably the most cited terpene.

 
so it appears that Whaxy believes the Steep Hill statement on Myrcene.  And though I haven't tried it with Lemongrass, I have tried eating mangoes and cannabis. The effect (for me) was decidedly NOT sativa. I watched a movie. Going for a hike, which I enjoy doing stoned, was unthinkable.

 

Also, notice the Linalool levels from your graphic above. I hadn't seen that before. Linalool is well known to be a sedative and could quite possibly affect how you feel. It's possible that all of these compounds, THCV, Linalool, and Myrcene, affect the cannabis experience. Sadly, there's a lot that we don't know about cannabis.
 
So, leaving the Myrcene out of it, it looks like a strain that's low in Linalool and high in THCV would probably create a Sativa-type effect. 
 
Hopefully we'll start seeing more studies on the compounds in cannabis soon. And once we have more studies on them, we'll be able to really focus on which compounds do what. You will be able to almost customize a strain to take care of certain diseases or symptoms. That would be sweet!
 
And according to a study in 1991, you may be correct about the time holding your inhaled cannabis. 

On each day, subjects smoked a single M cigarette (∼900 mg, 1.24% delta-9-THC) using one of 6 different smoking profiles typical for marijuana [puff volume (PV) ∼70 ml; breathholding time, (BHT) 14–16s] or tobacco (PV ∼ ml; BHT 4–5 s) or a combination of the two techniques (PV ∼70 ml and BHT 4–5 s; or PV ∼45 ml and BHT 14–16s).

...
The longer BHT (and not the larger PV) characteristics of M smoking contributes to the greater COHb boost and lung retention of inhaled tar during M compared to T smoking. In addition, the longer BHT appears to enhance THC absorption.

- http://www.sciencedi...9130579190377E 

BHT = "breathholding time", PV = "puff volume", T = "Tobacco", M = "Marijuana"

 

[gamesguru]

Contrary to popular belief, CBD is also supposed to promote wakefulness^[1] without altering locomotion [see below, although did find one study inhibiting hyperlocomotion].  CBN may also play a role.  It's anxiogenic, demotivating, psychotomimetic (weakly).  It might not be as unpleasant as I just described, and did find a couple sources saying it's higher in indicas.  But if you look on that chart I posted, it seems to suggest sativa is higher in myrcene.  So really, with lower CBD, lower THCV, higher myrcene, everything would suggest sativa is technically more sedating!?  Maybe the CBN just overwhelms and explains everything, aha.

Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2013 Mar 5;41:30-5.

Cannabidiol exhibits anxiolytic but not antipsychotic property evaluated in the social interaction test.

Almeida V¹, Levin R, Peres FF, Niigaki ST, et al.

Abstract

Cannabidiol (CBD), a non-psychotomimetic compound of the Cannabis sativa, has been reported to have central therapeutic actions, such as antipsychotic and anxiolytic effects. We have recently reported that Spontaneously Hypertensive Rats (SHRs) present a deficit in social interaction that is ameliorated by atypical antipsychotics. In addition, SHRs present a hyperlocomotion that is reverted by typical and atypical antipsychotics, suggesting that this strain could be useful to study negative symptoms (modeled by a decrease in social interaction) and positive symptoms (modeled by hyperlocomotion) of schizophrenia as well as the effects of potential antipsychotics drugs. At the same time, an increase in social interaction in control animals similar to that induced by benzodiazepines is used to screen potential anxiolytic drugs. The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of CBD on social interaction presented by control animals (Wistar) and SHRs. The lowest dose of CBD (1mg/kg) increased passive and total social interaction of Wistar rats. However, the hyperlocomotion and the deficit in social interaction displayed by SHRs were not altered by any dose of CBD. Our results do not support an antipsychotic property of cannabidiol on symptoms-like behaviors in SHRs but reinforce the anxiolytic profile of this compound in control rats.

 

Br J Pharmacol. 2015 Apr;172(7):1783-91.

Cannabidiol fails to reverse hypothermia or locomotor suppression induced by Δ(9) -tetrahydrocannabinol in Sprague-Dawley rats.

Taffe MA¹, Creehan KM, Vandewater SA.

Abstract

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE:

Growing evidence shows cannabidiol (CBD) modulates some of the effects of Δ(9) -tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). CBD is a constituent of some strains of recreational cannabis but its content is highly variable. High CBD strains may have less memory-impairing effects than low-CBD strains and CBD can reverse behavioural effects of THC in monkeys. CBD/THC interactions in rodents are more complicated as CBD can attenuate or exacerbate the effects of THC. This study was undertaken to determine if CBD could reverse hypothermia or hypolocomotor effects caused by THC in rats.

EXPERIMENTAL APPROACHES:

Male Sprague-Dawley rats were prepared with radiotelemetry devices and then given doses of THC (10-30 mg·kg(-1) , i.p.) with or without CBD. Experiments determined the effect of simultaneous or 30 min pretreatment with CBD in a 1:1 ratio with THC, as well as the effect of CBD in a 3:1 ratio. Additional experiments determined the effects of pretreatment with the cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist SR141716 (rimonabant).

KEY RESULTS:

CBD did not attentuate THC-induced hypothermia or hypolocomotion but instead exaggerated these effects in some conditions. The antagonist SR141716 blocked hypolocomotor effects of THC for the first hour after injection and the hypothermia for 6 h; thus validating the pharmacological model.

CONCLUSIONS AND IMPLICATIONS:

There is no evidence from this study that elevated CBD content in cannabis could provide protection from the physiological effects of THC, in rats.

 

After conversion to human dose, is 54mg (1/12 * 10mg/kg * 65kg).  This is for the lowest dose used!  The highest one is 200mg/kg, or 20x higher.

Even allowing a generous 3%, our volunteer would need to smoke 1800mg of cannabis.  Don't know about you, but that amount lasts me 48 hrs.  I mean, at least 36.  Further, myrcene's half life is 5 hrs (285min to be exact), while THC's is closer to 60min.

 

For 15% THC and 3% myrcene, we have % effective dose curves of 5*(1/2)^(t) and (1/2)^(t/5), where t is time in hours.  You can see (at least in the acute user) during the first 2.5 or 3 hours, the THC (red) dominates (not only that, it's effective at much less than 54mg, closer to 26mg, so multiply that curve by 2)!  The chronic user is a different story, with the convolution operation (which models radioactive dumps, where you keep tossing radioactive waste to the sample).  The myrcene builds up to a considerable extent in the chronic user.  But still, in the immediate high, about 90-120 minutes, the % of effective dose reached with myrcene vs. THC is still much lower.

Phytomedicine. 2002 Dec;9(8):709-14.

Central effects of citral, myrcene and limonene, constituents of essential oil chemotypes from Lippia alba (Mill.) n.e. Brown.

do Vale TG¹, Furtado EC, Santos JG Jr, Viana GS.

Abstract

Citral, myrcene and limonene (100 and 200 mg/kg body wt., i.p.), constituents of essential oils from Lippia alba chemotypes, decreased not only the number of crossings but also numbers for rearing and grooming, as measured by the open-field test in mice. Although muscle relaxation detected by the rota rod test was seen only at the highest doses of citral (200 mg/kg body wt.) and myrcene (100 and 200 mg/kg body wt.), this effect was observed even at the lowest dose of limonene (50 mg/kg body wt.). Also, citral and myrcene (100 and 200 mg/kg body wt.) increased barbiturate sleeping time as compared to control. Limonene was also effective at the highest dose, and although citral did not increase the onset of sleep, it increased the duration of sleep, which is indicative of a potentiation of sleeping time. Citral (100 and 200 mg/kg body wt.) increased 2.3 and 3.5 times, respectively, the barbiturate sleeping time in mice. Similar effects were observed for myrcene and limonene at the highest dose (200 mg/kg body wt.) which increased the sleeping time around 2.6 times. In the elevated-plus maze, no effect was detected with citral up to 25 mg/kg body wt., while at a high dose it decreased by 46% the number of entries in the open arms. A smaller but significant effect was detected with limonene (5 mg/kg body wt.). While myrcene (10 mg/kg body wt.) decreased [number of entries] only by 22% the number of entries in the open arms, this parameter was decreased by 48% at the highest dose. Our study showed that citral, limonene and myrcene presented sedative as well as motor relaxant effects. Although only at the highest dose, they also produced a potentiation of the pentobarbital-induced sleeping time in mice, which was more intense in the presence of citral. In addition, neither of them showed an anxiolytic effect, but rather a slight anxiogenic type of effect at the higher doses.

Edited by gamesguru, 27 October 2016 - 09:57 PM.

[LiveWell]

That's great. All I've learned is that I now know less than I did before.

 

All this and I still have NO idea if any of it would be able to increase focus/creativity without the forgetfulness.

 

Thanks to everyone for the efforts. As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed until some decent nootropic-specific research is performed. If y'all want to continue this thread, have a blast. I'm out.

[gamesguru]

according to examine [CB1 binding table below] it boosts dopamine but at high doses (30-70mg) reduces glutamate.  it has a few redeeming qualities, not sure how these compare to negative ones at low doses.  probably not a very good nootropic at all, and best to avoid for serious purposes.  CBD/THCV would probly make a better noot

• G_i/o (also known as G_i, which stands for G protein Inhibitory), known to have inhibitory actions on adenylyl cyclase (reducing cAMP).^[93] Through this coupling, CB1 activation is known to reduce cAMP-activated Protein Kinase A (PKA) activity, as well as activating MAPK and mixed effects on nitric oxide signalling, and inhibition of voltage-gated calcium channels and activation of inwardly-rectifying potassium channels.^[94] Na⁺K⁺ATPase activity can also be enhanced by CB1 activation.^[95] One subtype, Gα_i3, which is preferrentially coupled with CB1 is also involved in opiod signalling^[96]

• G_s (G protein Stimulatory), which has a stimulatory effect on adenylyl cyclase, although CB1 couples less selctively with this compared to G_i/o^[97]

• G_q/11 which is coupled to the phospholipase C pathway and leading to increased intracellular calcium, although Δ⁹THC only induces this particular pathway weakly as compared to other CB1 ligands^[98][99]

 

 

Cannabis: Potent Anti-depressant In Low Doses, Worsens Depression At High Doses

Date:

October 24, 2007

Source:

McGill University

Summary:

A new neurobiological study has found that a synthetic form of THC, the active ingredient in cannabis, is an effective anti-depressant at low doses. However, at higher doses, the effect reverses itself and can actually worsen depression and other psychiatric conditions like psychosis.

 

Hippocampal Neurotoxicity of Δ⁹-Tetrahydrocannabinol

Guy Chiu-Kai Chan, Thomas R. Hinds, Soren Impey and Daniel R. Storm

Journal of Neuroscience 15 July 1998, 18 (14) 5322-5332

Abstract

Marijuana consumption elicits diverse physiological and psychological effects in humans, including memory loss. Here we report that Δ⁹-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, is toxic for hippocampal neurons. Treatment of cultured neurons or hippocampal slices with THC caused shrinkage of neuronal cell bodies and nuclei as well as genomic DNA strand breaks, hallmarks of neuronal apoptosis. Neuron death induced by THC was inhibited by nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including indomethacin and aspirin, as well as vitamin E and other antioxidants. Furthermore, treatment of neurons with THC stimulated a significant increase in the release of arachidonic acid. We hypothesize that THC neurotoxicity is attributable to activation of the prostanoid synthesis pathway and generation of free radicals by cyclooxygenase. These data suggest that some of the memory deficits caused by cannabinoids may be caused by THC neurotoxicity.

 

Marijuana: Neurotoxicor Neuroprotective?

Abstract

Chronic marijuana intake was known to induce morphological changes to the brain impairing memory and learning ability. However, several studies demonstrated the protective effect of marijuana post-brain traumas. This article reviews studies that strengthen our horizon to understand the effects of marijuana smoking in brain. This review predicts that optimum use of marijuana or pure marijuana compound can be beneficial or detrimental depending on the consumed dose.

 

http://preventdiseas...xic-Drugs.shtml

top comment: https://www.reddit.c..._neurotoxic_in/

[geo12the]

FWIW here is my experience: I find most pot takes away my motivation and gives me brainfog the next few days. But it relaxes me and helps with my insomnia. I find the indica strains way too stupifying and brain fog inducing so I stay away from those.

 

One factor not discussed here is the fact that harvest time can dramatically alter the balance of compounds. Late harvest is supposed to be higher in CBD and lower in THC and more relaxing. I grew some sativa this year and did a very late harvest. Made edibles. The effect is remarkable: not super intoxicating but very relaxing and enjoyable. A small piece before bedtime completely cures my horrible insomnia.   And, importantly, I experience zero brainfog and no anti-motivation effects, quite the opposite-I feel sharp and alert and motivated the day after consuming it. So I don't find the tittle of this thread that far fetched.

 

I should add, I have a prescription for medical cannabis. 

Edited by geo12the, 28 October 2016 - 01:02 AM.

[naturalmatters]

That's great. All I've learned is that I now know less than I did before.

 

All this and I still have NO idea if any of it would be able to increase focus/creativity without the forgetfulness.

 

Thanks to everyone for the efforts. As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed until some decent nootropic-specific research is performed. If y'all want to continue this thread, have a blast. I'm out.

 

 

 

In a recent mice study it looks like low doses of THC does indeed act like a nootropic.

 

http://www.longecity...imals/?p=815987

Edited by naturalmatters, 17 May 2017 - 03:53 AM.