5 replies to this topic

[vere]

I thought I'd post a bit about my L-theanine experience and try to figure out why it affects me the way it does. I decided to try L-theanine for my constant generalized anxiety. Having taken GABA before with no effect, I was very skeptical and had little expectation that it would actually do anything for me.

 

I was very wrong, and the effects of it were amazing for lifting my anxiety and enormously improving my ability to sit down and focus on my work without constant feelings of dread (even though I love my work, it's a large source of stress when objectively, there's no reason for it to be.) 

 

I usually have an incessant internal monologue that works so subconsciously on me that I wasn't aware of how bad it was until I took L-theanine. I honestly had no idea it was possible to be free of it. Instead, my head was clear, focused in the moment, and I felt very carefree but also determined and motivated and had more energy than ever. Normally, I become fatigued quickly and fall asleep instantly -- I think probably because it's a great way to escape whatever's stressing me out. I actually had a bit more trouble falling asleep that night just because I had so much positive energy, but I didn't mind. In my free time, I could put stressful thoughts about work away and be in the moment, which was crazy for me, because usually I can't take a shower without my mind racing and exhausting myself with needless worries.

 

Taking L-theanine also gave me a great lifted feeling in my head, a pressure in a nice way, like my brain was digesting something good. It also had the added effect of making me more emotional, more in touch with my memories than I have been in a long time. Don't know if the pleasant feelings were due its effect on my mood, or if it was just because I wasn't distracted by all of the nervous thoughts I usually am. Probably both.

 

Also, I normally have chronic upper back discomfort/pain for a reason that's still unknown to me, but apparently could be at least partially aggravated by a constant physical stress I wasn't aware of. L-theanine lifted this for me as well.

 

Overall, I took L-theanine for just 4 days so far. After two days, however, things started to turn, which I'm very disappointed about given how awesome my initial experience was. Now I'm trying to find out why that could be. 

 

First day, I took two 200mg chewable tablets (Solaray brand), which I realized after is probably much more than I needed. It acted way faster than I expected (5-10 minutes.) I took another after about 5-6 hours when I felt myself coming back into my normal brain. Felt great the entire day.

 

Second day, I had returned to my usual nervousness/tenseness when waking up in the morning. Took another 200mg tablet and felt great again. I bought a 150mg pill (Solgar brand) so that I could have a slightly lower dose, because I didn't feel like I even needed 200mg to feel the effects. It had the same effect. That night I felt better than ever, and I wanted to do everything while I felt like this, and was much more optimistic about the future. 

 

First couple days I got a bit of nausea and minor, brief headaches, but I couldn't have cared less because of how great I felt otherwise.

 

Third day, I took 150mg in the morning, and 150mg in the evening. I started to feel a little funny after the 150mg in the morning - a little laggy, but I brushed it off. The 150mg later in the day, I started to feel really weird. A heaviness set in on my head rather than a lifting. I also got this very weird numbness/tingling/pressure around the bridge of my noise that lasted about 10 minutes, which freaked me out and made me think I might have overdone it. I felt a tiny bit better after a couple hours.

 

The next day, I decided not to take any, and I didn't particularly need it. The whole day I felt super spaced out and detached from reality. Still relaxed in a way, but more sedated, and so intently focused on nothing that it felt like I was looking past everything. Having conversations, I felt like I had to try very hard to seem like I was paying attention and that my responses weren't delayed. This is totally different from the past two days where I felt more social than usual, and much more in touch with what I was looking at.

 

Next day, woke up with the same feeling. I had expected it to go away in this amount of time and with more sleep, but it persisted as a heaviness in the front of my head, a clamping feeling around my temples and the top of my head near the front. And a weird sort of tingly on the bridge of my nose, reminiscent of the weird numbness I had gotten before.

 

Next day, I still had some residual head pressure, but relatively back to normal. I thought maybe the past couple times had been different because I switched to a different brand. Still eager to have L-theanine work for me, I tried taking one of the original 200mg tablets I bought. That was a mistake, because it induced the awful spaced out feeling all over again almost immediately. With this feeling, I was unable to work because every time I looked at the screen I completely zoned out. I also don't feel like it had the same positive effect on my anxiety - I was relaxed, but only by virtue of being sort of sedated feeling. I felt more depressed and withdrawn than anything.

 

I've read a lot of experiences with L-theanine that describe these two different sides of it. But I haven't seen anything similar to what I've experienced, where someone has had a great response at first, followed by an awful response -- not just tolerance or feeling no effect, but feeling more of an extreme effect from it in a bad way even though doses were lowered. 

 

It's a pretty broad question, but does anyone have any thoughts on what chemically could be responsible for this fickle response? I know in general it increases GABA and dopamine, which explains the positive response in terms of motivation/energy, good feelings, and less anxiety to me. But I guess what I started feeling was an extreme intensification of increased GABA, in that I was extremely calm to the point of feeling totally out of it, and a backlash of dopamine, making me completely demotivated and depressed. Is there maybe something more nuanced to explain why that would start happening after a couple days, or something else at play?

 

I'm also wondering what it could have done to me to mess me up for two days after stopping taking it, since the half life is 3 hours. It felt more like the effects, bad or good, were cumulative and had some lasting hold on me. Maybe just my brain trying to resume homeostasis? 

 

I feel normal again now, a day after taking the most recent pill. My anxiety level feels no worse than before starting, perhaps a tiny bit better. I will probably wait about a week so that my head feels completely clear again, and then try much smaller doses of it, maybe starting with just 50mg a day. I understand it's probably a good thing to cycle if I seem to develop these effects after a couple of days of use. 

 

[Ames]

Why do you think that it's having this effect?

 

The arc that you describe is exactly standard for supplements that work by acting as an agonist for a particular neurotransmitter. Such stimulants tend to increase tolerance, which makes you feel worse than your prior baseline. Such a reaction is an excellent indicator that you should stop taking the long-term ineffectual supplement. 

 

In my opinion, anxiety is one of the most difficult puzzles that this forum attempts to address. The answer certainly is not found in theanine, long term. Most anxiolytic supplements will reliably increase baseline anxiety over time. 

 

On this forum, from what I am familiar with, the best anxiety solutions are to be found in the still-developing research on KOR agonism / antagonism as well as in a combination of B12 and methylfolate that seems to upregulate GABA to a degree; one of the only solutions that I know of that does so. I rely on this latter solution, currently. 1 mg of hydroxycobalamin and 200 micrograms of methylfolate once per day. It's discussed on another thread in this forum.

[vere]

I have read about other supplements for anxiety that are GABA agonists and can see why that should be avoided because of downregulation in the long term potentially worsening anxiety. As far as I know, L-theanine is not a GABA agonist, just upregulates production of GABA.

 

I've also read L-theanine is an NMDA agonist, but that it has a low affinity for binding to the NMDA receptor. I can't find much there that relates to my experience. 

 

I hadn't expected theanine to work as a be-all and end-all to my anxiety to take every day forever, despite my initial response being super helpful in making me realize that I should be seeking some sort of relief for my anxiety. I understand it's a much more complex issue than that, and that we'd all be anxiety free by now if theanine were the answer. But I also wouldn't like to rule it out as an option for me to help my mood and focus on occasion, since it has given me some positive effects initially. After all, why does anyone try anything here? 

 

So far my changed response doesn't boil down to becoming tolerant. The effects of it seemed like they became stronger/more overwhelming in an excessive way over a couple days, rather than there being a lack of response. Just an onset of increased spaced-out feelings and a weird intense pressure in my head the last few times I've taken it. Going off it a couple days, I've completely returned to my baseline at this point, and I don't feel any more anxious than I did prior to taking it.

 

It seems like it's a pretty common reaction among people to feel spaced out on theanine. But most I've read about had this response right off the bat, and strayed from taking it again because they had no positive effects. For me, it seems like the weirdness gradually came on after taking it several times. Mostly curious if anyone has had a similar experience, and if they've found any future success taking it.

 

My knowledge is pretty limited, which is why I am posting here to learn and see if anyone has any ideas on what those sensations could be attributed to. But what it felt like was that the upregulation of GABA was cumulative over the course of the days I took theanine, causing me in the later doses to actually become too calm to the point of lack of focus and detachment. So I am wondering if this is something that would likely happen with consecutive daily dosing that may be too high for me. I'm guessing I might still be able to see some benefit from lower doses, less frequently. Or maybe even just more green tea.

 

Thanks for the info on some of the upcoming research that addresses anxiety, always good to hear some promising things. I'll be looking into it. 

 

Edited by vere, 21 December 2016 - 02:47 AM.

[Madman]

From my own experience , I had something similar with L-Theanine

 

The conclusion I came to was that L-Theanine is better taken in its original form inside of tea, I choose the decaf version to give me all the benefits of l-Theanine without the stimulation. I drink lots of Decaf tea for this reason.

 

This is also the case for many other isolated compounds from natural sources, often they act better in the body when consumed in their natural form, due to buffer and complimentary compounds that go with it naturally evolved over time in nature.

[airplanepeanuts]

Same thing happened to me. Initially I thought hallelujah this is the best thing ever but later it just made me feel dull.

[fntms]

Same here, first a good mood boost, with calm stimulation then after a few weeks of mild dosage: sluggishness and apathy bordering on depression, with a dull feeling in the head,struggling to find words...Green tea every day does not have that effect.