142 replies to this topic

[Deaden]

Sounds terrifying but interesting. You're probably used to this being your life but if I was you I'd live in hate against the world...

[YoungSchizo]

Sounds terrifying but interesting. You're probably used to this being your life but if I was you I'd live in hate against the world...

 

No man, I haven't given up yet. Maybe the next chick I will meet and fall in love with will be the cupido that pears both of our hearts. That's my problem, not schizophrenia and/or women, but falling in love with the right one. I got some time left

[Deaden]

So you don'f have the anhedonia of schizophrenia or it would be impossible for you to fall in love

[YoungSchizo]

So you don'f have the anhedonia of schizophrenia or it would be impossible for you to fall in love

 

I suffer severely from anhendonia/negative symptoms of schizophrenia but haven't given up the hope in falling love again: I believe that the possibility exist to fall in love again and that my heart will melt and heal once I met the right person. And my tragic/schizophrenic story will be just a story from my past that doesn't affect affect my future.

 

I remain positive. I believe in the power of love

[mateusbrasil]

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects

on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

 

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,

Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

 

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were

Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly

Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

 

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

 

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not

Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity

Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable

And possibly neurotoxic.

 

That answers many of your questions, I hope.

I hope I helped you.

 

English is not my native language.

I hope I did not look arrogant, or something/or something like that.

 

.

Edited by mateusbrasil, 29 August 2017 - 03:38 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects
on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,
Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were
Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly
Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not
Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity
Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable
And possibly neurotoxic.

That answers many of your questions, I hope.
I hope I helped you.

English is not my native language.
I hope I did not look arrogant, or something/or something like that.

.

Did you find a substitute for the alcohol? With what are you treating negative symptoms now?

[PeaceAndProsperity]

 

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects

on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

 

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,

Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

 

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were

Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly

Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

 

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

 

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not

Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity

Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable

And possibly neurotoxic.

Your thinking doesn't make sense. How would an nmda antagonist like alcohol help in a disease of reduced function of the nmda receptor?

Antagonists can also be neurotoxic. Many nmda antagonists are neurotoxic. Gaba antagonists can be neurotoxic as well. But so can agonists be, both of glutamate and gaba.

[mateusbrasil]

 

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects
on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,
Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were
Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly
Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not
Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity
Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable
And possibly neurotoxic.

That answers many of your questions, I hope.
I hope I helped you.

English is not my native language.
I hope I did not look arrogant, or something/or something like that.

.

Did you find a substitute for the alcohol? With what are you treating negative symptoms now?

 

"Did you find a substitute for the alcohol?"

 

No, I've never experienced anything until today

That is similar to the effect of alcohol on improving

My symptoms.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"With what are you treating negative symptoms now?"

 

Before anything else, I have to clarify that my schizophrenia is not severe, I have most of the symptoms

But with low intensity, my positive symptoms are very mild, I have never taken antipsychotics.

 

But the negatives are hell !, mainly because I also have ADHD that I inherited from my mother, since the schizophrenic damage I inherited from my father.

 

What I have used that ta being useful is nicotine (snuff)

Is helping me in "flat affect" and "consummatory anhedonia"

 

The cognitive deficits I'm not sure if it's helping

Specifically in schizophrenia, because I also have tdah.

 

Other substances that I am using but I am still in the experimentation phase is sodium benzoate

And ginger (5-ht3 antagonist).

 

Sodium benzoate does not want to see results immediately, because it has a very "subtle" pharmacological effect, I can only "discriminate" it after 5 days

So if it works it will take several weeks.

I've been taking it for 20 days but it's too early to make a conclusion if it's working.

 

I believe the "brain fog" you experienced was due to an interaction with some substance you take.

 

With the ginger ginger I had a few moments of effects

But never anything consistent, seems to work more when my symptoms are more "acute", to complicate even more

The effect only appears after several days, it seems that depends on whether ginger is fresh vs dry, also not found the best dose yet, not to mention that it may be all placebo lol!

 

The 5-ht3 receptor is very complicated depending on the drug that will bind to it and the dose, it may have consistent effects

Or have zero effects!

 

by: google translate.

 

Edited by mateusbrasil, 29 August 2017 - 06:13 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

 

 

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects
on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,
Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were
Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly
Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not
Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity
Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable
And possibly neurotoxic.

That answers many of your questions, I hope.
I hope I helped you.

English is not my native language.
I hope I did not look arrogant, or something/or something like that.

.

Did you find a substitute for the alcohol? With what are you treating negative symptoms now?

 

"Did you find a substitute for the alcohol?"

 

No, I've never experienced anything until today

That is similar to the effect of alcohol on improving

My symptoms.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"With what are you treating negative symptoms now?"

 

Before anything else, I have to clarify that my schizophrenia is not severe, I have most of the symptoms

But with low intensity, my positive symptoms are very mild, I have never taken antipsychotics.

 

But the negatives are hell !, mainly because I also have ADHD that I inherited from my mother, since the schizophrenic damage I inherited from my father.

 

What I have used that ta being useful is nicotine (snuff)

Is helping me in "flat affect" and "consummatory anhedonia"

 

The cognitive deficits I'm not sure if it's helping

Specifically in schizophrenia, because I also have tdah.

 

Other substances that I am using but I am still in the experimentation phase is sodium benzoate

And ginger (5-ht3 antagonist).

 

Sodium benzoate does not want to see results immediately, because it has a very "subtle" pharmacological effect, I can only "discriminate" it after 5 days

So if it works it will take several weeks.

I've been taking it for 20 days but it's too early to make a conclusion if it's working.

 

I believe the "brain fog" you experienced was due to an interaction with some substance you take.

 

With the ginger ginger I had a few moments of effects

But never anything consistent, seems to work more when my symptoms are more "acute", to complicate even more

The effect only appears after several days, it seems that depends on whether ginger is fresh vs dry, also not found the best dose yet, not to mention that it may be all placebo lol!

 

The 5-ht3 receptor is very complicated depending on the drug that will bind to it and the dose, it may have consistent effects

Or have zero effects!

 

by: google translate.

 

 

I've tried Sodium Benzoate consistently for 3 weeks, however I gave it up because I didn't notice any improvements and/or any effects of it at all. How long are you supposed to take it in order to notice any effects? Over at schizophrenia.com some people also trialed it but also with no success/improvement.

[mateusbrasil]

 

 

Há algum tempo, quando eu aprendi sobre a teoria do glutamato da esquizofrenia (hipoatividade de NMDA), fiquei excitada e comecei a estudar álcool e seus efeitos

No receptor nmda, pensei: "Achei a cura", quão ingênuo eu era!

 

Comecei a usar álcool 6 g todos os dias, já no primeiro dia eu vi uma diferença em mim: avolição, anedonia,

Afeto plano , alogia ... tudo foi muito melhorado.

 

Com a passagem das semanas, todas as melhorias que tive foram

Substituído por um sentimento "deprimido", irritabilidade ..., isso foi em parte

Aliviado logo depois de tomar novamente 6 g de álcool, o que significa que eu deveria manter uma certa concentração constante de álcool no sangue, então eu teria um alívio.

 

Eu parei imediatamente com o álcool, e até hoje, depois de mais de 6 meses, sinto que não estou 100% livre das conseqüências.

 

Existe uma razão pela qual os pesquisadores / acadêmicos não

Estão tentando melhorar a hipoatividade do receptor NMDA

Através do agonismo de glutamato diretamente, não é sustentável

E possivelmente neurotóxico.

Seu pensamento não faz sentido. Como um antagonista de nmda como álcool ajudaria em uma doença de função reduzida do receptor nmda?

Os antagonistas também podem ser neurotóxicos. Muitos antagonistas da nmda são neurotóxicos. Os antagonistas de Gaba também podem ser neurotóxicos. Mas os agonistas podem ser tanto glutamato quanto gaba.

 

Yes the alcohol is an NMDA receptor antagonist but only at the time it is in your blood, but homeostasis is restored and all actions of alcohol in NMDA will be reversed, the result of which is that when the alcohol is no longer in the blood , The NMDA receptor will be more potent in action than if you used sarcosine and

D-serine simultaneously.

 

The alcohol in low concentration is not neurotoxic

But I think that in my condition it can be

Although I have used a very small amount (less than a beer) I have had damage (with the passage of time) that other people would not have, for example in the withdrawal of only 6gm after maybe 10 months of consumption, I had symptoms that He resembled himself with a delirium tremens:

Disabling mental confusion, nightmares even while awake ... but of course it varies from person to person.

 

by: google translate.

Edited by mateusbrasil, 29 August 2017 - 07:14 PM.

[mateusbrasil]

 

 

 

A while ago when I learned about the glutamate theory of schizophrenia (NMDA hypoactivity) I got excited, and started to study about alcohol and its effects
on the nmda receptor, I thought: "I found the cure", How naive I was!

I started to use alcohol 6g every day, already on the first day I saw a difference in me: avolition, anhedonia,
Flat affect, alogia ... it was all greatly improved.

With the passage of the weeks all the improvements that I had were
Replaced by a "depressed" feeling, irritability ..., This was partly
Relieved shortly after taking 6 g of alcohol again, Which means I should maintain a certain steady concentration of alcohol in the blood, so I would have a relief.

I stopped immediately with the alcohol, and even today after more than 6 months I feel that I am not 100% free of the consequences.

There is a reason why researchers / academics do not
Are trying to improve NMDA receptor hypoactivity
Through glutamate agonism directly, it is not sustainable
And possibly neurotoxic.

That answers many of your questions, I hope.
I hope I helped you.

English is not my native language.
I hope I did not look arrogant, or something/or something like that.

.

Did you find a substitute for the alcohol? With what are you treating negative symptoms now?

 

"Did you find a substitute for the alcohol?"

 

No, I've never experienced anything until today

That is similar to the effect of alcohol on improving

My symptoms.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"With what are you treating negative symptoms now?"

 

Before anything else, I have to clarify that my schizophrenia is not severe, I have most of the symptoms

But with low intensity, my positive symptoms are very mild, I have never taken antipsychotics.

 

But the negatives are hell !, mainly because I also have ADHD that I inherited from my mother, since the schizophrenic damage I inherited from my father.

 

What I have used that ta being useful is nicotine (snuff)

Is helping me in "flat affect" and "consummatory anhedonia"

 

The cognitive deficits I'm not sure if it's helping

Specifically in schizophrenia, because I also have tdah.

 

Other substances that I am using but I am still in the experimentation phase is sodium benzoate

And ginger (5-ht3 antagonist).

 

Sodium benzoate does not want to see results immediately, because it has a very "subtle" pharmacological effect, I can only "discriminate" it after 5 days

So if it works it will take several weeks.

I've been taking it for 20 days but it's too early to make a conclusion if it's working.

 

I believe the "brain fog" you experienced was due to an interaction with some substance you take.

 

With the ginger ginger I had a few moments of effects

But never anything consistent, seems to work more when my symptoms are more "acute", to complicate even more

The effect only appears after several days, it seems that depends on whether ginger is fresh vs dry, also not found the best dose yet, not to mention that it may be all placebo lol!

 

The 5-ht3 receptor is very complicated depending on the drug that will bind to it and the dose, it may have consistent effects

Or have zero effects!

 

by: google translate.

 

 

I've tried Sodium Benzoate consistently for 3 weeks, however I gave it up because I didn't notice any improvements and/or any effects of it at all. How long are you supposed to take it in order to notice any effects? Over at schizophrenia.com some people also trialed it but also with no success/improvement.

 

I intend to stay in accordance with the duration of the study done - which lasted 6 weeks, during that time if I see the minimum of improvements I will stay up to 6 more months, otherwise I will conciderar try some combination with d-serine ...

 

Is cheap has no side effects (on me) why not stay longer? - before judging useless.

[Dichotohmy]

I've been following this thread and just feel the need to dispel one thing in particular: the amount of, or frequency that one drinks alcohol has nothing to do with whether that person is an alcoholic. I would argue those things are not necessarily a slippery slope to alcoholism either, due to a myriad of possible mitigating factors. What makes one an alcoholic is whether or not that person is physically or psychologically dependent on alcohol. Period. That is the only real criteria for alcoholism that matters. The definition of "dependent" is open to interpretation. IE, are you unable to cease or abstain from alcohol despite honest attempts to do so? Is alcohol causing significant health, job, or interpersonal problems for you, yet you cannot abstain or cease drinking? If so, then that demonstrates alcohol dependency and thus deserving of the label "alcoholic."

 

One unfortunate fact that we have to keep in mind is that millions and millions of people self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, usually due to treatable reasons; but what most people like to pretend doesn't exist, is that there are unfortunate addicts out there that have tried and tried for years, but for whom there really is nothing that works better to relieve their problems than addictive substances - whether that be alcohol, food, or even the ever-maligned opioids. In such a case where indeed nothing else works, I would argue and understand the perspective that continuing use of addictive substances is less harmful than the detrimental effects of suffering through life with intractable physical, psychiatric, or psychological burdens.

Edited by Dichotohmy, 02 September 2017 - 09:08 PM.

[YoungSchizo]

One unfortunate fact that we have to keep in mind is that millions and millions of people self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, usually due to treatable reasons; but what most people like to pretend doesn't exist, is that there are unfortunate addicts out there that have tried and tried for years, but for whom there really is nothing that works better to relieve their problems than addictive substances - whether that be alcohol, food, or even the ever-maligned opioids. In such a case where indeed nothing else works, I would argue and understand the perspective that continuing use of addictive substances is less harmful than the detrimental effects of suffering through life with intractable physical, psychiatric, or psychological burdens.

 

Thanks for your input. This sort of was actually the point I was trying to make when making this thread. If I look back at these past months that I've been alcoholic, almost each day that I drank it felt like a big psychological/psychiatric burden got lifted by improving my depression and those debilitating negative symptoms. (Where dozens of medications, supplements, lifestyle changes and whatnot failed to do so). When I look back at this summer, I can say I was able to enjoy it due to my alcoholism.

 

 

 

I've been following this thread and just feel the need to dispel one thing in particular: the amount of, or frequency that one drinks alcohol has nothing to do with whether that person is an alcoholic. I would argue those things are not necessarily a slippery slope to alcoholism either, due to a myriad of possible mitigating factors. What makes one an alcoholic is whether or not that person is physically or psychologically dependent on alcohol. Period. That is the only real criteria for alcoholism that matters. The definition of "dependent" is open to interpretation. IE, are you unable to cease or abstain from alcohol despite honest attempts to do so? Is alcohol causing significant health, job, or interpersonal problems for you, yet you cannot abstain or cease drinking? If so, then that demonstrates alcohol dependency and thus deserving of the label "alcoholic."

 

This upcoming week will be my first attempt to try to abstain of alcohol. Alcohol hasn't really affected my functioning in a negative way but on the other hand I have no idea if I'm already physically or psychologically addicted, so I have no idea if I will succeed or not. But it has more the do with the fact that I reacted positive to Topamax, which levels out my mood positively, levels out the spikes in my emotions and by accident I found out it is a potent anti-alcohol drug (stops cravings and it builds up a tolerance to alcohol in the brain/body). And it has to do with the fact that I'm starting with Nardil which I really want to give a chance to make it work and I don't want to go mess around to much with my dopamine levels (Nardil on itself already raises dopamine so it's a risk, I don't want to risk fooling around more with dopamine by drinking alcohol). 

[mateusbrasil]

 

One unfortunate fact that we have to keep in mind is that millions and millions of people self medicate with alcohol and other drugs, usually due to treatable reasons; but what most people like to pretend doesn't exist, is that there are unfortunate addicts out there that have tried and tried for years, but for whom there really is nothing that works better to relieve their problems than addictive substances - whether that be alcohol, food, or even the ever-maligned opioids. In such a case where indeed nothing else works, I would argue and understand the perspective that continuing use of addictive substances is less harmful than the detrimental effects of suffering through life with intractable physical, psychiatric, or psychological burdens.

 

Thanks for your input. This sort of was actually the point I was trying to make when making this thread. If I look back at these past months that I've been alcoholic, almost each day that I drank it felt like a big psychological/psychiatric burden got lifted by improving my depression and those debilitating negative symptoms. (Where dozens of medications, supplements, lifestyle changes and whatnot failed to do so). When I look back at this summer, I can say I was able to enjoy it due to my alcoholism.

 

 

 

I've been following this thread and just feel the need to dispel one thing in particular: the amount of, or frequency that one drinks alcohol has nothing to do with whether that person is an alcoholic. I would argue those things are not necessarily a slippery slope to alcoholism either, due to a myriad of possible mitigating factors. What makes one an alcoholic is whether or not that person is physically or psychologically dependent on alcohol. Period. That is the only real criteria for alcoholism that matters. The definition of "dependent" is open to interpretation. IE, are you unable to cease or abstain from alcohol despite honest attempts to do so? Is alcohol causing significant health, job, or interpersonal problems for you, yet you cannot abstain or cease drinking? If so, then that demonstrates alcohol dependency and thus deserving of the label "alcoholic."

 

This upcoming week will be my first attempt to try to abstain of alcohol. Alcohol hasn't really affected my functioning in a negative way but on the other hand I have no idea if I'm already physically or psychologically addicted, so I have no idea if I will succeed or not. But it has more the do with the fact that I reacted positive to Topamax, which levels out my mood positively, levels out the spikes in my emotions and by accident I found out it is a potent anti-alcohol drug (stops cravings and it builds up a tolerance to alcohol in the brain/body). And it has to do with the fact that I'm starting with Nardil which I really want to give a chance to make it work and I don't want to go mess around to much with my dopamine levels (Nardil on itself already raises dopamine so it's a risk, I don't want to risk fooling around more with dopamine by drinking alcohol). 

 

Sorry if I'm intruding too much.

but will you use nardil for depression or the negative symptoms?

[YoungSchizo]

Sorry if I'm intruding too much.
but will you use nardil for depression or the negative symptoms?

No problem m8

I'm hoping it'll affect both! MAOI's effectiveness in depression is well known but there's almost no research done with MAOI's and schizophrenia/negative symptoms. There are a few study's done with Parnate (another MAOI) and the effects on negative symptoms and the results are positive.

Edited by YoungSchizo, 03 September 2017 - 02:00 AM.

[mateusbrasil]

 

 

 

Desculpe se estou me envolvendo demais.
mas você usará nardil para depressão ou sintomas negativos?

Não há problema em m8

. Espero que isso afete ambos! A eficácia da IMAO na depressão é bem conhecida, mas quase nenhuma pesquisa foi feita com sintomas de MAOI e esquizofrenia / negativo. Há alguns estudos feitos com Parnate (outro MAOI) e os efeitos sobre os sintomas negativos e os resultados são positivos.

 

I was about to comment on some things about MAOI´s, but when I went to reread what I wrote, I realize that maybe with some adjustment is more a good topic than a post, what do you think?

is it better to post here or create a topic?

[YoungSchizo]

 

 

 

 

Desculpe se estou me envolvendo demais.
mas você usará nardil para depressão ou sintomas negativos?

Não há problema em m8

. Espero que isso afete ambos! A eficácia da IMAO na depressão é bem conhecida, mas quase nenhuma pesquisa foi feita com sintomas de MAOI e esquizofrenia / negativo. Há alguns estudos feitos com Parnate (outro MAOI) e os efeitos sobre os sintomas negativos e os resultados são positivos.

 

I was about to comment on some things about MAOI´s, but when I went to reread what I wrote, I realize that maybe with some adjustment is more a good topic than a post, what do you think?

is it better to post here or create a topic?

 

 

I have a thread about Nardil and schizophrenia. But if you prefer to open up a new thread about MAOI's and schizophrenia I don't mind and will be equally interested in what you have to share. It sucks that there's almost no information on the net about this subject.

[YoungSchizo]

Just a question out of curiosity (a question for the brightest minds).. Which order does alcohol follow when consuming alcohol from starting until the point of intoxication..? What comes first and what comes later? The GABAergic, Glutamergic, or Dopaminergic/Serotinegeric effect..?

 

The reason I'm asking is is because before intoxication I bother myself with the slightest stimulus and I pretty much get depressed/annoyed over the slightest smallest things and this affects my mood/behavior in a big way. When I have 3-6 beers I become either more depressed or quite the opposite, less depressed, but at the same time either more or less social(!). When having 8-10 beers, all my problems with depression and the problems I have with (external/social) stimuli seem to resolve completely. Once at that point (between tipsy and intoxication) I seem to crave external stimuli/attention/social contact. And the reason I'm asking is is because it seems to be more natural, more human, to feel how I feel when tipsy/intoxicated in order to feel like whom who do not suffer from depression.

But okay, I do suffer from depression and my question is what is the mechanism behind alcoholism/intoxication that makes one enjoy the company of one another and/or a movie or reading a book or whatever which a "normal" considers as normal/fun. My mind is spinning when I'm realizing this, why is it that I (or you) cannot enjoy things like "normal" people do? And I beg your pardon, I guess and am sure I do not speak for all schizophrenics or the ones with depression, since people without schizophrenia/depression are able to enjoy company or whatever without the consumption of alcohol. My personal question is rather what is behind the "special mechanism" of alcohol. Since no one, either be depressed or not, cannot find an answer to, where did the medical field failed? Why do so many people (even the healthy people) feel relieve in the use of alcohol? What makes alcohol so "special"?

[jaiho]

Alcohol is an extremely dirty drug. Your body treats it as poison.

I'd be ditching this as a form of self medication ASAP.

The GABA system takes a very long time to recover.

[YoungSchizo]

Alcohol is an extremely dirty drug. Your body treats it as poison.

I'd be ditching this as a form of self medication ASAP.

The GABA system takes a very long time to recover.

 

I don't know man.. Is that the same story you gonna tell to millions and millions of alcoholics (whom drink daily and don't notice any adverse affects)...

 

Tomorrow.. I'm starting Parnate.. I just hope it's a damn potent anti-depressant.. If not, I do not know what else will help.. I'm clearly sick of meds..

[mateusbrasil]

Just a question out of curiosity (a question for the brightest minds).. Which order does alcohol follow when consuming alcohol from starting until the point of intoxication..? What comes first and what comes later? The GABAergic, Glutamergic, or Dopaminergic/Serotinegeric effect..?

 

The reason I'm asking is is because before intoxication I bother myself with the slightest stimulus and I pretty much get depressed/annoyed over the slightest smallest things and this affects my mood/behavior in a big way. When I have 3-6 beers I become either more depressed or quite the opposite, less depressed, but at the same time either more or less social(!). When having 8-10 beers, all my problems with depression and the problems I have with (external/social) stimuli seem to resolve completely. Once at that point (between tipsy and intoxication) I seem to crave external stimuli/attention/social contact. And the reason I'm asking is is because it seems to be more natural, more human, to feel how I feel when tipsy/intoxicated in order to feel like whom who do not suffer from depression.

But okay, I do suffer from depression and my question is what is the mechanism behind alcoholism/intoxication that makes one enjoy the company of one another and/or a movie or reading a book or whatever which a "normal" considers as normal/fun. My mind is spinning when I'm realizing this, why is it that I (or you) cannot enjoy things like "normal" people do? And I beg your pardon, I guess and am sure I do not speak for all schizophrenics or the ones with depression, since people without schizophrenia/depression are able to enjoy company or whatever without the consumption of alcohol. My personal question is rather what is behind the "special mechanism" of alcohol. Since no one, either be depressed or not, cannot find an answer to, where did the medical field failed? Why do so many people (even the healthy people) feel relieve in the use of alcohol? What makes alcohol so "special"?

"a question for the brightest minds"

hahahahaha

 

You really do want this answer, right?

[mateusbrasil]

Unfortunately this is not a long-term solution, and worst of all, with the passage of time you will have abstinence even if you are still consuming your usual dose, the tendency is for you to have to increase your dosage more and more in order to not having withdrawal.

 

alcohol actually has these effects that you mentioned mainly in us being schizophrenic, but most of these symptoms that you experience before alcohol is due to abstinence,

then the benefits you get from consuming alcohol

is due to reversal of withdrawal.

 

and hyperactive NMDA, which then relieves schizophrenic symptoms,but this is a bad idea in the long run.

I'm not asking you to stop drinking alcohol, I'm just giving my point of view / information

Edited by mateusbrasil, 07 September 2017 - 01:12 AM.

[YoungSchizo]

Just a question out of curiosity (a question for the brightest minds).. Which order does alcohol follow when consuming alcohol from starting until the point of intoxication..? What comes first and what comes later? The GABAergic, Glutamergic, or Dopaminergic/Serotinegeric effect..?

The reason I'm asking is is because before intoxication I bother myself with the slightest stimulus and I pretty much get depressed/annoyed over the slightest smallest things and this affects my mood/behavior in a big way. When I have 3-6 beers I become either more depressed or quite the opposite, less depressed, but at the same time either more or less social(!). When having 8-10 beers, all my problems with depression and the problems I have with (external/social) stimuli seem to resolve completely. Once at that point (between tipsy and intoxication) I seem to crave external stimuli/attention/social contact. And the reason I'm asking is is because it seems to be more natural, more human, to feel how I feel when tipsy/intoxicated in order to feel like whom who do not suffer from depression.
But okay, I do suffer from depression and my question is what is the mechanism behind alcoholism/intoxication that makes one enjoy the company of one another and/or a movie or reading a book or whatever which a "normal" considers as normal/fun. My mind is spinning when I'm realizing this, why is it that I (or you) cannot enjoy things like "normal" people do? And I beg your pardon, I guess and am sure I do not speak for all schizophrenics or the ones with depression, since people without schizophrenia/depression are able to enjoy company or whatever without the consumption of alcohol. My personal question is rather what is behind the "special mechanism" of alcohol. Since no one, either be depressed or not, cannot find an answer to, where did the medical field failed? Why do so many people (even the healthy people) feel relieve in the use of alcohol? What makes alcohol so "special"?

"a question for the brightest minds"
hahahahaha

You really do want this answer, right?

I really do m8.. I'm unable to do myself, and the answers provided to this thread do not clarify and/or explain the "positive effects of alcohol".. I'm just really curious because alcohol didn't make me more depressed and/or schizophrenic, it does the opposite and I'm just curious which mechanism causes this effect. So, it's a question for the brightest minds!

[jaiho]

 

 

 (whom drink daily and don't notice any adverse affects)...

 

Alcoholics do get adverse effects. Their brain is losing cognitive ability, they are always hung over, lacking energy.

The liver is rotting away over time. Chance of cancer increases drastically.

 

Just becomes its popular doesn't mean its good to do. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs to be addicted to, and thats backup up by research on the harm index. Legality is meaningless.

 

Any mental illness treated with Alcohol will worsen in the long term. It's like treating depression with Heroin, yes it works in the short term, then tolerance, and dependence.

[YoungSchizo]

Unfortunately this is not a long-term solution, and worst of all, with the passage of time you will have abstinence even if you are still consuming your usual dose, the tendency is for you to have to increase your dosage more and more in order to not having withdrawal.

alcohol actually has these effects that you mentioned mainly in us being schizophrenic, but most of these symptoms that you experience before alcohol is due to abstinence,
then the benefits you get from consuming alcohol
is due to reversal of withdrawal.

and hyperactive NMDA, which then relieves schizophrenic symptoms,but this is a bad idea in the long run.
I'm not asking you to stop drinking alcohol, I'm just giving my point of view / information

I'm sorry I've missed this reply.. I doubt the reversal and abstinence is the ultimate explanation for my drinking habits because many non schizophrenic and non depressed folks also seem to do fine by getting intoxicated daily like I do.
I do however acknowledge I am not mentally healthy like them to keep this going on in the long-term.. But it just made me wonder.. where do we (healthy and/or depressed/schizophrenic) have something in common? What/where in the brain (neurotransmitters) does alcohol trigger/affect that we become more tolerant/social/enjoyable or whatever positive effects alcohol has on us which (current) meds fail to address to treat? That's what I'm wondering.

(For me personally there's a "trigger" after 6-8 beers that makes me enjoy life in general, any company and/or any social interaction and I am eager to know why)

[YoungSchizo]

(whom drink daily and don't notice any adverse affects)...

Alcoholics do get adverse effects. Their brain is losing cognitive ability, they are always hung over, lacking energy.
The liver is rotting away over time. Chance of cancer increases drastically.

Just becomes its popular doesn't mean its good to do. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs to be addicted to, and thats backup up by research on the harm index. Legality is meaningless.

Any mental illness treated with Alcohol will worsen in the long term. It's like treating depression with Heroin, yes it works in the short term, then tolerance, and dependence.

Yes, I know that and I'm looking for solutions. But are antipsychotics/antidepressants any better long-term? I know researches that claim some antidepressants are good for the general health, though about antipsychotics I read the opposite. Antipsychotics are like poisonous as alcohol, no?

[jaiho]

 

 

Antipsychotics are like poisonous as alcohol, no? 

 

No, they aren't. They treat mental illnesses in the long term. There are small chances of complications, but nowhere near the level of long term alcohol use.

Also, anti psychotics are dose dependent on what they treat. Low dose increases dopamine transmission by D2 presynaptic receptors. High dose is used to treat positive symptoms by dopamine antagonism. They augment well with other anti depressants to boost response.

 

If you want a long term treatment for schizo, and prefer to avoid anti psychotics then you'd want to look at glutamate substances like Sarcosine + NAC.

 

GABA based drugs like Alcohol, benzos, phenibut, are just temporarily boosting you up, when you encounter tolerance you'll wish you never touched them.

[mateusbrasil]

 

 

Just a question out of curiosity (a question for the brightest minds).. Which order does alcohol follow when consuming alcohol from starting until the point of intoxication..? What comes first and what comes later? The GABAergic, Glutamergic, or Dopaminergic/Serotinegeric effect..?

The reason I'm asking is is because before intoxication I bother myself with the slightest stimulus and I pretty much get depressed/annoyed over the slightest smallest things and this affects my mood/behavior in a big way. When I have 3-6 beers I become either more depressed or quite the opposite, less depressed, but at the same time either more or less social(!). When having 8-10 beers, all my problems with depression and the problems I have with (external/social) stimuli seem to resolve completely. Once at that point (between tipsy and intoxication) I seem to crave external stimuli/attention/social contact. And the reason I'm asking is is because it seems to be more natural, more human, to feel how I feel when tipsy/intoxicated in order to feel like whom who do not suffer from depression.
But okay, I do suffer from depression and my question is what is the mechanism behind alcoholism/intoxication that makes one enjoy the company of one another and/or a movie or reading a book or whatever which a "normal" considers as normal/fun. My mind is spinning when I'm realizing this, why is it that I (or you) cannot enjoy things like "normal" people do? And I beg your pardon, I guess and am sure I do not speak for all schizophrenics or the ones with depression, since people without schizophrenia/depression are able to enjoy company or whatever without the consumption of alcohol. My personal question is rather what is behind the "special mechanism" of alcohol. Since no one, either be depressed or not, cannot find an answer to, where did the medical field failed? Why do so many people (even the healthy people) feel relieve in the use of alcohol? What makes alcohol so "special"?

"a question for the brightest minds"
hahahahaha

You really do want this answer, right?

I really do m8.. I'm unable to do myself, and the answers provided to this thread do not clarify and/or explain the "positive effects of alcohol".. I'm just really curious because alcohol didn't make me more depressed and/or schizophrenic, it does the opposite and I'm just curious which mechanism causes this effect. So, it's a question for the brightest minds!

 

the pharmacological effect of alcohol on the brain is extensive, would require a lot of motivation and focus to summarize the most relevant to our condition (schizophrenia).

and m8, with ADHD and schizophrenia in the same brain

I do not think I give account of "a question for the brightest minds".

 

but since you're a nice person, I'll try to answer you

in a way that does not wear me out too much.

 

at first the theory that more comprehensively explains the symptoms of schizophrenia is the "glutamatergic theory" - hypofunction of the NMDA receptor (hypo activity), knowing this we can discard all other neurotransmitters that alcohol interacts with, and focus on glutamate !.

 

the alcohol blocks / antagonizes the NMDA receptor directly and indirectly example: it inhibits the ion chain, by decreasing the excitatory amino acids ... (?)

 

but NMDA receptor creates an acute and chronic tolerance to this block, even before the alcohol gets out of the blood NMDA receptor activity returns to baseline, and when the alcohol is no longer in your blood, the NMDA receptor now be active as never before, this explains PARTIALLY the benefits you observe from using alcohol since it relieves the hypoactivity of the NMDA receptor caused by schizophrenia.

 

other effects:

 

reward effects: alcohol releases dopamine in the nucleus acubens - release of dopamine in the NAc will make you "happy"

regardless of whether you are sick (schizophrenia, depression ...) or not !, that's the main reason everyone feels good about using alcohol, whether it's healthy people or not.

 

reinforcing effect: include relieving muscle tension / stress, anxiety / restlessness ... any effects of alcohol that are perceived as "positive" by the user is a reinforcing effect.

 

Edited by mateusbrasil, 07 September 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[Deaden]

Randy Marsh mentions gluten free beers as a healthier option. Maybe you want to try that? x)

[hydrus]

 

 

(whom drink daily and don't notice any adverse affects)...

Alcoholics do get adverse effects. Their brain is losing cognitive ability, they are always hung over, lacking energy.
The liver is rotting away over time. Chance of cancer increases drastically.

Just becomes its popular doesn't mean its good to do. Alcohol is one of the worst drugs to be addicted to, and thats backup up by research on the harm index. Legality is meaningless.

Any mental illness treated with Alcohol will worsen in the long term. It's like treating depression with Heroin, yes it works in the short term, then tolerance, and dependence.

Yes, I know that and I'm looking for solutions. But are antipsychotics/antidepressants any better long-term? I know researches that claim some antidepressants are good for the general health, though about antipsychotics I read the opposite. Antipsychotics are like poisonous as alcohol, no?

 

 

sure they are toxic but you do not get addicted to them in the sense that you feel the need to increase your dosage  and an urge you can't control.

 

there is the risk of some organ damage with long term usage: For example lithium can damage your kidneys and AP do often cause tardive dyskinesia usually permanent.

 

There is some risk of liver failure also I think but this does not occur as patients who take these are monitored by doctors.

 

 

Alcohol is one of the most common causes of premature death. Drugs should do far less harm if prescribed in a responsible way.

 

If you do not get around taking a toxic substance you can at least try to reduce the dosage. There is a huge difference between drinking 2-3 beers and 6-8 a day. With the former you might not even qualify as an alcoholic with the latter you certainly are.

 

Adverse effects from medications can also be reduced if you take less. Take as much as you need but not more if not necessary.

Edited by hydrus, 07 September 2017 - 02:03 PM.