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The price of NR and Metformin

chromadex metformin tru niagen

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#1 bluemoon

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:35 PM


I've been taking HPN's NR for a year and the price came down to where a three months supply of 250 mg a day costs $78.00 and Tru Niagen, bless their hearts, are selling the same thing for $135 a month, which is 75% higher. This is what I mean when we NR consumers better hope Elysium and maybe other companies stay in or enter the NR market.   

 

I've always thought Chromadex has a very narrow window of opportunity to do well with NR since there absolutely will be drugs competing against it. Metformin pills cost $.05 each, way cheaper than NR, and they may have similar benefits. 


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#2 MikeDC

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:36 PM

https://app.truniagen.com/

 

$45 per month

$119.75 for 3 month supply = $40 per month

 

Metformin is useless for anti aging.


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#3 MikeDC

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 06:41 PM

My wife has used metformin for many years until it can no longer control blood sugar and started insulin. I have never seen any anti aging effects

while she was on metformin. She started Niagen a year ago and has seen great improvement in health and appearance.

 

You can't really use metformin anyway for a normal person, you will experience low blood sugar and faint.

 

NAD+ precursors will be THE anti aging pill for thousands years to come unless we all become mutants.


Edited by MikeDC, 14 September 2017 - 06:45 PM.

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#4 Heisok

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:08 PM

MikeDC, would you explain how you figured out that Metformin started insulin for your wife, (I assume raised it.)?

 

It would also be helpful for a study. Personally, I take both. I am not biased to either one, and would drop Metformin or Nicotinimide Riboside if their risks are more than I realize.

 

Thank you.



#5 bluemoon

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:34 PM

https://app.truniagen.com/

 

$45 per month

$119.75 for 3 month supply = $40 per month

 

Metformin is useless for anti aging.

 

Thanks for pointing out my error, Evan Y. but Chromadex is still charging about a 55% higher price than HPN for an identical product. This is why we want HPN to still sell NR from a new source as Elysium has been doing so that NR costs $310 next year at 250 mg instead of CromaDex's $480 a year.

 

Metformin has already shown life extention and if someone takes two pills a day for $.10, then just $36.50 a year. Rapmycin will likely be in the pool of health pills as well and apparently Matt Kaemberlein's first trial on dogs shows heart improvements just as mice studies have and have NR studies on mice. His labs results are expected to be out "soon", just as Chromodex said in August that its NR study out "in the next few months."  


Edited by bluemoon, 14 September 2017 - 08:39 PM.


#6 stefan_001

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

https://app.truniagen.com/

$45 per month
$119.75 for 3 month supply = $40 per month

Metformin is useless for anti aging.

Thanks for pointing out my error, Evan Y. but Chromadex is still charging about a 55% higher price than HPN for an identical product. This is why we want HPN to still sell NR from a new source as Elysium has been doing so that NR costs $310 next year at 250 mg instead of CromaDex's $480 a year.

Metformin has already shown life extention and if someone takes two pills a day for $.10, then just $36.50 a year. Rapmycin will likely be in the pool of health pills as well and apparently Matt Kaemberlein's first trial on dogs shows heart improvements just as mice studies have and have NR studies on mice. His labs results are expected to be out "soon", just as Chromodex said in August that its NR study out "in the next few months."
And why would a party that discovers a new way to manufacture NR supply a company
Iike HPN cheap or sell cheap by themself? You are saying that Elysium Health with its toxic tainted Basis is selling cheaper now that they are not sourcing from Chromadex? I didnt see any price drop. Oh and you did notice this is a NR forum?

Edited by stefan_001, 14 September 2017 - 08:48 PM.


#7 MikeDC

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:46 PM

MikeDC, would you explain how you figured out that Metformin started insulin for your wife, (I assume raised it.)?

It would also be helpful for a study. Personally, I take both. I am not biased to either one, and would drop Metformin or Nicotinimide Riboside if their risks are more than I realize.

Thank you.

Maybe I didn't state it clearly. She quit metformin and started using insulin. There is no side effect with insulin. Low dose of metformin might be fine. But high dose metformin has side effects.

The study that said metformin extend life span is flawed.

Many scientific studies are questionable similar to global warming. Scientists just make up numbers to fit their agenda. Resveratrol was king of anti aging with 8000 papers to support it. Now clinical trials showed that it has no effect and even increases cholesterol.

Edited by MikeDC, 14 September 2017 - 08:52 PM.

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#8 bluemoon

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:19 PM

 

And why would a party that discovers a new way to manufacture NR supply a company
Iike HPN cheap or sell cheap by themself? You are saying that Elysium Health with its toxic tainted Basis is selling cheaper now that they are not sourcing from Chromadex? I didnt see any price drop. Oh and you did notice this is a NR forum?

 

 

Why, yes, I did notice this is an NR forum since I made up the thread title that includes NR in it and discussed Chromadex, Elysium and HPN.

 

I'm not sure if HPN will continue to sell NR once ChromaDex cuts them off, but they might want to undercut ChromaDex and Elysium to get the lower end customer that doesn't need an advertising campaign. Works for me.

 

I didn't say that Elysium was cheaper. Keep in mind that Elysium also includes pterostilbine, which so far Tru Niagen does not. The amount of toulene in Elysium's NR is "a tiny, tiny amount" according to the blogger at The Right of Assembly blog who also owns shares of ChromaDex. Another guy calculated the amount of Toulene in Elysium's NR and found it to be 100 times below the FDA's maximum requirement, but I'm not sure where I read that. This wil be a non issue except for a very small minority who don't understand safety risks.

 

My broader point stands though that drugs like metformin and likely rapmycin among those under development should give any company that sells NR a very small window of opportiny. Then again, I have thought this for 3 years. Notice Elysium says it has trials being developed for its next pill, which I'm guessing will be NMN.  



#9 MikeDC

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:26 PM

I am telling you now nothing will be able to replace NAD+ precursors. Supplementing NAD+ is the most natural way to prevent aging. Metformin and Rapamycin will never be able to replace NAD+ precursors. It is directed by physiology. Nothing can change that. People fooling around with Rapamycin and metformin while ignoring NR are just ignorant fools.

Spend a month and read all the papers on NAD+, you will see what I am seeing. NR is a beauty and metformin and Rapamycin are ugly ducks.

I believe current basis no longer contain pterostilbene. Their version of NR may not be effective since the absorption of pure NR is not known. People still buying Basis are fools.

Instead of bash ChromaDex, buy the stock and it will reach $100 in two years. A lot of smart people out there that understands how good NR is.

Edited by MikeDC, 14 September 2017 - 10:38 PM.

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#10 bluemoon

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:48 PM

I am telling you now nothing will be able to replace NAD+ precursors. Supplementing NAD+ is the most natural way to prevent aging. Metformin and Rapamycin will never be able to replace NAD+ precursors. It is directed by physiology. Nothing can change that. People fooling around with Rapamycin and metformin while ignoring NR are just ignorant fools.

Spend a month and read all the papers on NAD+, you will see what I am seeing. NR is a beauty and metformin and Rapamycin are ugly ducks.

I believe current basis no longer contain pterostilbene. Their version of NR may not be effective since the absorption of pure NR is not known. People still buying Basis are fools.

Instead of bash ChromaDex, buy the stock and it will reach $100 in two years. A lot of smart people out there that understands how good NR is.

 

I haven't bashed ChromaDex but would have no problem criticizing it as I have with its three postponments of releasing human trial data, although it makes sense to time that with an ad campaign.  I've had problems with a couple of things Guarente has said in the past few weeks as well.  

 

Elysium's website still says pterostilibine is part of Basis.  

 

以上です。



#11 Ibbz

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:17 AM

Check out Alive by Nature - $100, 120 Tablets @ 250MG  / 4 Months supply.

 

http://alivebynature.../niagen-250-mg/

 

Ain't competition grand?


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#12 MikeDC

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:23 AM

Alivebynature used to have one year supply for $240.
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#13 bluemoon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:00 AM

Check out Alive by Nature - $100, 120 Tablets @ 250MG  / 4 Months supply.

 

http://alivebynature.../niagen-250-mg/

 

Ain't competition grand?

 

Yes it is! But Chromadex will no longer supply them so it looks like Tru Niagen will be $500 a year. Isn't monopoly grand? The good news is that Elysium ain't going anywhere so less expensive. I really doubt anyone will be talking about NR in 2020. A lot will happen in the next three years.  


Edited by bluemoon, 15 September 2017 - 05:07 AM.

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#14 Ibbz

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:21 AM

 

Check out Alive by Nature - $100, 120 Tablets @ 250MG  / 4 Months supply.

 

http://alivebynature.../niagen-250-mg/

 

Ain't competition grand?

 

Yes it is! But Chromadex will no longer supply them so it looks like Tru Niagen will be $500 a year. Isn't monopoly grand? The good news is that Elysium ain't going anywhere so less expensive. I really doubt anyone will be talking about NR in 2020. A lot will happen in the next three years.  

 

 

I'm confused, you're saying Chromadex will have a monopoly on NR, but then you contradict yourself by saying that Elysium will still be selling it? At the end of the day, if NR is proven to have positive effects, and Chromadex completely stops reseller sales & has a ridiculous price on it's own brand, competitors will come up with other ways to provide NR.

 

Also, are we expecting significant studies in the next 3 years disproving the effects of NR?



#15 stefan_001

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:40 AM

Check out Alive by Nature - $100, 120 Tablets @ 250MG / 4 Months supply.

http://alivebynature.../niagen-250-mg/

Ain't competition grand?

Yes it is! But Chromadex will no longer supply them so it looks like Tru Niagen will be $500 a year. Isn't monopoly grand? The good news is that Elysium ain't going anywhere so less expensive. I really doubt anyone will be talking about NR in 2020. A lot will happen in the next three years.
NR consumption and NAD+ boosting more generally is at the start of a gigantic upswing and in 3 years the scenario is much more likely that it has an enormous base of people that believe it brings benefits as opposed to yours. Wrt other manufacturing methods for sure using toxic solvents is a problem. Lifelong use is far different than pharmaceutical use for which the limits have been set. Also pharmaceutical products have very stringent and expensive quality control, have you seen EHs? You believe they wont cut corners to make more profit? Afterall that is what there fight with Chromadex is about. EH marked up the NR from Chromadex with a factor 4! Thats right sold it 4 x more expensive than what they payed Chromadex but that didn't seem to be good enough for them.

With use expanding I do expect that TRU Niagen will come down in price, there is a business model optimization play here for Chromadex. In that way they also can keep other parties away from trying to produce NR.

Edited by stefan_001, 15 September 2017 - 05:45 AM.


#16 MikeDC

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 10:43 AM

Many people still don't understand that low NAD+ is the major cause of aging. No chemicals big pharma make will ever replace NR. They might complement NR
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#17 bluemoon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:17 PM

  

I'm confused, you're saying Chromadex will have a monopoly on NR, but then you contradict yourself by saying that Elysium will still be selling it? At the end of the day, if NR is proven to have positive effects, and Chromadex completely stops reseller sales & has a ridiculous price on it's own brand, competitors will come up with other ways to provide NR.

 

Also, are we expecting significant studies in the next 3 years disproving the effects of NR?

 

 

I should have clarified that Chromadex's price of close to $500 a year is if it has a monopoly and keeps its current price.  I'd rather get it for $300 a year through HPN or another vendor. I think Chromadex's CEO was being disingenous in spring when he said a few vendors out of the current 40 might still be supplied NR. Yeah, right.  

 

I think NR will be shown to do good things, although we still aren't sure to what extent beyond an increase in NAD+ levels. My point was that there are clearly other compounds in the game including NMN, rapamycin and metformin. Currently NR costs way more than metformin and both seem to be good for the heart.  Human trials will provide the necessary details of both compounds, to use heart health as just one example.

 

Stephan_001 says that manufacturing with a toxin like toulene is a problem but doesn't seem interested that it is in trace amounts that are harmless. There are people who won't eat foods that contain tiny amounts of radiation, way below the FDA "increase of risk" levels, either. Coca Cola has used toulene to make Coke for over a hundred years and the company seems to be doing OK: 

 

From a 5 minute Chemistry World podcast:

 

"The original formulation of Coca-Cola contained cocaine, as it includes an extract of the coca leaf, but since the early 1900s toluene has been used in a process that removes the cocaine from the coca... ... ...   And as the substance that keeps the coke out of cola, it’s a molecule for which we can all be thankful." 
 

Edited by bluemoon, 15 September 2017 - 05:22 PM.


#18 MikeDC

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:26 PM

Only an idiot would stick to Basis. Cheaper and better NR are available. Someone posted that Elysium are refunding deposit if you ask them this.
"Either you prove that Basis contains no industrial chemicals or I want refund"
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#19 bluemoon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:00 PM

Only an idiot would stick to Basis. Cheaper and better NR are available. Someone posted that Elysium are refunding deposit if you ask them this.
"Either you prove that Basis contains no industrial chemicals or I want refund"

 

As you know, Coca Cola receives hundreds of thousands of demands that no industrial chemicals are used each year, and they get refunds. Elysium could run into the same publicity nightmare that has hit Coca Cola over the past 100 years, but we don't know yet. 



#20 Heisok

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:58 PM

As far as I know Elysium does not sell an individual Nicotinimide Riboside product. As you say their product has an NR with a small amount of toulene. Great. Maybe a non issue. Any other non Nicotinimide Riboside chemicals other than toulene?

 

What is their source for the Pterostilbine? What is the purity?

 

I do think that Chromadex will continue to wholesale NR to HPN. HPN appears to meet what they are looking for in a marketer. Why cut them off, and risk alienating their customers, and maybe even losing HPN as a marketer of another of their products- Pureenergy (Ptero/Caffeine linked crystal)?

 

"I didn't say that Elysium was cheaper. Keep in mind that Elysium also includes pterostilbine, which so far Tru Niagen does not. The amount of toulene in Elysium's NR is "a tiny, tiny amount" according to the blogger at The Right of Assembly blog who also owns shares of ChromaDex. Another guy calculated the amount of Toulene in Elysium's NR and found it to be 100 times below the FDA's maximum requirement, but I'm not sure where I read that. This wil be a non issue except for a very small minority who don't understand safety risks."

 

You assume the worst about dropping HPN. As far as combined NR/pTeroPure product. That would be simple. If Elysium has broken their contract, then what would stop Chromadex.


Edited by Heisok, 15 September 2017 - 08:16 PM.


#21 bluemoon

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:19 PM

As far as I know Elysium does not sell an individual Nicotinimide Riboside product. As you say their product has an NR with a small amount of toulene. Great. Maybe a non issue. Any other non Nicotinimide Riboside chemicals other than toulene?

 

What is their source for the Pterostilbine? What is the purity?

 

I do think that Chromadex will continue to wholesale NR to HPN. HPN appears to meet what they are looking for in a marketer. Why cut them off, and risk alienating their customers, and maybe even losing HPN as a marketer of another of their products- Pureenergy (Ptero/Caffeine linked crystal)?

 

"I didn't say that Elysium was cheaper. Keep in mind that Elysium also includes pterostilbine, which so far Tru Niagen does not. The amount of toulene in Elysium's NR is "a tiny, tiny amount" according to the blogger at The Right of Assembly blog who also owns shares of ChromaDex. Another guy calculated the amount of Toulene in Elysium's NR and found it to be 100 times below the FDA's maximum requirement, but I'm not sure where I read that. This wil be a non issue except for a very small minority who don't understand safety risks."

 

You assume the worst about dropping HPN. As far as combined NR/pTeroPure product. That would be simple. If Elysium has broken their contract, then what would stop Chromadex.

 

1. Elysium's NR doesn't have small amounts of Toulene but traces of it, just as the two billion cans of coke sold a year have traces in them.

 

2. I don't know where Elysium gets their pterostilbine from.

 

3. I don't see why ChromaDex would sell NR to HPN or anyone else as they try to get a brand name following. HPN can easily get NR from where Elysium gets it and for a lower price than from Chromadex if they want to sell NR next year.


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#22 mrkosh1

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 01:17 AM

I wouldn't be interested in Basis. My best hunch is that a combination of NR plus R Alpha Lipoic Acid (which activates SIRT genes as well) would be even more effective. Right now, I'm taking a combination of NR, R-ALA, and Ubiquinol (fairly modest doses of each) to try and improve health, lose weight, and reverse my aging process. If Niagen would ever go down in price, I think this trio could become a fairly affordable anti-aging combo, but of course it would need to be rigorously tested in dozens or hundreds of people to see what effects it has. 



#23 MikeDC

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:23 AM

I am taking Niagen and Ubiquinol. Both are natural molecules in our body.

#24 Pizzarulzz

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 07:42 AM

In india NR is damn expensive more than 12000 INR which i cant afford at the moment this is dang big amount of money because indian companies doesnt make NR on its own i have to import it and then it become super expensive

#25 MikeDC

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 11:03 AM

ChromaDex has done a poor job making NR available world wide. It is not a matter of making money, they are delaying people from benefitting from NR. Even in the US, NIagen is still unknown to 99% of the population. The management team at ChromaDex is really not to the task.

#26 bluemoon

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 01:41 PM

ChromaDex has done a poor job making NR available world wide. It is not a matter of making money, they are delaying people from benefitting from NR. Even in the US, NIagen is still unknown to 99% of the population. The management team at ChromaDex is really not to the task.

 

This is why I think a takeover by Elysium is a real possibility.  


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#27 Oakman

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:03 PM

2. I don't know where Elysium gets their pterostilbine from.

RE #2: Elysium used to get their pterostilbene from Chromadex, but now who knows, it's simply a plant derived supplement, widely available. I doubt it matters very much. 
 
Pterostilbene is a natural plant derived compound. Chromadex's pTeroPure is not natural, but a nature-identical, 99% pure, synthesized form of pterostilbene. Their patents are listed here. They seem a little iffy (my opinion), for example, one pending patent simply concerns how to administer pTeroPure. It looks like  Chromadex is using the typical corporate tactic of taking a natural substance and creating something proprietary and more expensive thru the patent process.

Edited by Michael, 22 September 2017 - 05:14 PM.
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#28 MikeDC

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:23 PM

ChromaDex has done a poor job making NR available world wide. It is not a matter of making money, they are delaying people from benefitting from NR. Even in the US, NIagen is still unknown to 99% of the population. The management team at ChromaDex is really not to the task.


This is why I think a takeover by Elysium is a real possibility.

Not when Li owns 20% of the company. Elysium can't raise $2 billion for the purchase.
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#29 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:28 PM

How do you figure that Chromadex is worth $2B? 

 

Today based on their sales and published studies that seems a tad optimistic.

 

 

 



#30 MikeDC

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 03:21 PM

The NR story is real. Watson alone can get ChromaDex over $2 billion within 2 years. $100 profit per person per year. 1 million customers. 50 PE and 50 million shares. That is $5 billion market cap right there.

Edited by MikeDC, 18 September 2017 - 03:33 PM.

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