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Your experience with Neurofeedback, LLLT, or better

neurofeedback lllt cognitive enhancment nootropics cognition

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#1 tms

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 01:28 PM


I'd love to hear what were your experiences with either Low level laser therapy , Neurofeedback and/or something better I'm not aware of. 

  • If you tried one of the two, did you find a way to make it really cheap ? I'm thinking about the TULIP protocol which seems very cool. For neurofeedback I guess you can always find used 4 channel amplifier and the needed tools.

  • What setups and protocols did you use ? (device for lllt, devices for nf and protocols...)

  • How much of an improvement did you get ? could you compare neurofeedback to meditation or is it leagues above ?

  • How fast ?

  • Did you measure your progress/performance objectively (raven matrices, gpa by example) ?

  • Was creativity, motivation and drive, confidence, verbal fluency, anxiety control, mood improved ? Really interested about these too as I'm into writing and game design.

  • Side effects ? Example does the supposed lllt fatigue occured to you and how does it affect you.

  • Better nootropics/cognitive enhancment protocols to suggest ? Supps ? Oxygen to the brain, glucose levels, Intra nasal insulin..

I heard absolutely fascinating reports on LLLT. Some rather subjective but very very encouraging - speed of tought, clarity, memory ... -. For nf it is even going somewhat mainstream. I read zingerliscious and thebrainstore on reddit, some tagsync users comments that make nf seem like the next step of evolution lol. - + 15/20 IQ points, perceived creativity trough the rough, calmness...-

For the anecdote, I'm preparing myself for competitive exams (maths and physics, last year of undergrad level in my country) in 5 months and looking for the safest and best bang for my buck. I'm rather risk adverse concerning nootropics.


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#2 RYAN474

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:43 PM

TMS, 

 

I can speak to LLLT using the vielight 810 and vielight 633, although I don't have any significant objective data to share. 

 

Subjective data only: I'm guessing I have experienced a 10-20% improvement in cognition since starting them probably 3-4 months ago. Basically feels like better access to memory, logical thinking capabilities, thinking on the fly, focus, resulting in better confidence. Not sure about verbal fluency, creativity, drive & motivation--haven't noticed an impact on those. Again, I don't have any significant objective data to show my improvements. I meant to do some kind of assessment via lumocity or similar, but haven't gotten to it. However, I am very systematic about monitoring myself for changes and have reasonable confidence (at this early stage), that this is helping. I have made a number of other changes in the past 6 months, but none of them at the exact same time I've started the LLLT. So the only way i'll be able to tell for sure woudl be to stop doing LLLT for a while while continuing everything else and see if I decline again. 

 

I use the vielights once per day. Both at the same time, at night somewhere between 2 hrs before bed to when I'm actually laying down in bed. One in each nostril at the same time which the manufacturer insists allows each to work just as well and they do not interfere with eachother when used at the same time. They are on an autotimer 25 min built into the device. 

 

When I tried doing it twice per day, every day, morning and evening, I seemed to feel 10-20% more tired and 10-20% worse cognition throughout the day. Again just guessing. I did this for about 4 days in Sept and then again 4 days in Oct. Both times I experienced a similar issue so I stopped with twice per day and went back to only once per day at night. Benefits returned. No other side effects are noticed at this point. 

 

I've struggled with brain fog, ADD-PI, fatigue and cognitive fatigue, etc for over 10 years. 

 

 I also do dozens of other things for cognition, including Intranasal insulin (helpful for sure), galantamine (very helpful), far infrared sauna (helpful), saventaro (helpful for 1 day then fatigued the next day, but profoundly helpful antiinflammatory for that 1st day I think), adderall (rx for 10+ yrs), thyroid meds (rx 8+ years), testosterone (rx 8+ years), meditation ™, and so on. 

 

I have never tried neurofeedback. I saw a functional neurologist (chiropractor), who told me I first needed to get my fatigue and baseline cognitive issues solved before I should consider doing neurofeedback. 

 

Also, about a month ago my VA Megan did some research on the Neuro Alpha/Gamma and vielight 810/633. Figured I would share here fwiw, directly pasting: 

 

---

Assignment: Looking to see if you can find reviews from people who have tried the Vielight Neuro Alpha or Gamma, and what their experiences were. Or if there are any studies on their website.

Good or bad experiences, or neutral. A bonus would be if anyone had tried the 810 or 633 and then used the Neuro and if they noticed different/better effects. I own the 810 and the 633 red, and seem to have noticed a 10-20% improvement in cognition since starting them, but would be interested in something more powerful if it's warranted. So it's worth an hour or so of time, perhaps up to 2 hours max if needed, to get some info on these and inform whether I should purchase them. https://vielight.com/neuro-alpha-gamma/

 

Megan emailed comment:

These are such niche products that online reviews are hard to come by. Here's what I've collected.

 

In general, it looks like the Alpha is the best for general brain health and potentially more beneficial than the 810 or 633.

-----

 

Hi Tom,

 

Here's a final note about the Vielight (unless you want me to dig further - just let me know). I emailed a company that recommends the products, does coaching, Youtubes about Vielight, etc. I thought you'd be interested to read his comments about Gamma, below:

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: TRULY HEAL Support Ticket <ticket@trulyheal.com>

Date: Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:29 PM

Subject: [Ticket #1413] NA

To:  

 

----------reply above----------

 

 

 

Hello Megan  

 

Marcus Freudenmann (mf@trulyheal.com) wrote:

Hello Megan

 

that depends on what your problems are.

 

I recommend the Neuro Gamma which is the newer model only to people with severe depression, MS, Alsheimer and other severe degenerative diseases of the brain. But the device only works if the surrounding conditions are corrected as well. It's kind of a boost to your self healing mechanism when deficiencies and inflammation which often trigger these problems are resolved. Depression for example can also be caused by deficiencies, toxicity and inflammation. MS is very often related to pathogenic overload and can be very successfully treated with ozone.  

 

I think a proper diagnose would be the most important thing. Then you can start with a proper protocol and do not invest money into devices which may or may not work.

 

We do not believe in general recommendations because you follow regiments that may or may not fit your problems. I could easily recommend you 2 or 3 protocols and fill your life with  gadgets, tasks and treatments until you run out of either energy or money but it defeats the TRULY HEAL purpose.

 

What causes the disease in YOU??? What are YOUR triggers?

  • Emotional stress, resentments, anger, abuse, towards ___???___

  • Self worth and self talk ??

  • Hormone imbalances ??

  • Chemical / Petrochemical toxins ??

  • Dental toxins ??

  • Heavy metal toxins ??

  • Gut health and diet ??

  • Deficiencies ?? (Vitamins, Minerals, Phytonutients, Amino acids, Digestive enzymes)

  • Infections ?? (bacterial, viral, mold, fungi, inflammation)

Knowing what is relevant for YOU will give us a clear strategy and protocol which deals with YOUR issues efficiently. Every issue you can resolve will bring you closer to a recovery. That's why we offer an evaluation which will give you a clear spectrum of what needs to be done. This approach is much more streamlined and targeted than hoping a treatment works. Especially as we can set markers and check in 3 to 6 months if they really work.

 

We do not advice therapy for disease but therapy to remove cause of disease.

 

1.) General weakness and degeneration (PEMF / Ozone / 655 Laser / Supplementation)

2.) Infections (Ozone / Hyperthermia / 655 Laser / Supplementation)

3.) Toxins (PEMF / Ozone / Hyperthermia / Supplementation)

4.) Deficiencies (PEMF / Supplementation)

5.) Hormone imbalances ( Ozone / Supplementation)

6.) Anaerobic conditions & inflammation (PEMF / Ozone / Hyperthermia / 655 Laser / Supplementation)

 

As you can see, several devices have an influence on many of the main causes and will help mend the problem. It's not a treatment against disease, but against the causes of disease.

 

Kind regards

Marcus

-----

 

Vielight Neuro Alpha or Gamma

 

VieLight does have a research page: https://vielight.com/clinical-studies/

There are two completed studies, and a few more that are in trial or registration phase.

 

  1. Device: Vielight Neuro Gamma, used on 5 Alzheimer's patients. “ After 12 weeks of PBM treatments, delivered with a commercially available, wearable device, the patients with mild to moderately severe dementia showed improvements on the Mini-mental State Exam (MMSE, p<0.003) and Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale-cognitive, ADAS-cog, p<0.03). The caregivers, who kept daily journals of their experiences during the 12 weeks of PBM treatment, reported better sleep, fewer angry outbursts, decreased anxiety and wandering in their loved-ones with dementia. The goals of this trial are to: “ Link.

  2. PBM shows potential for home treatment of patients with dementia and AD. link.

 

  • Blogger shares his experience with LLT, has the 810 but not the Alpha or Gamma. Link.

  • Forum conversation about Neuro Alpha (Gamma is discussed a bit). Positive remarks all around (some complaints of sleepiness after use). link.

  • You're obviously already familiar with LLLT but I wanted to mention this great article on Self-Hacked. He recommends VieLight and uses the Neuro: https://selfhacked.com/blog/my-review-of-lllt/

  • 3 very positive amazon reviews for Neuro. Link.

  • Short convo about the Alpha vs Gamma, from the VIelight admin: “There should definitely be some overlap between the two pulse frequencies. While the pulse rate plays an objective role, the transmission of photons through the scalp and intranasal channel to the brain plays a more important role. We just believe that one design is more specific vs the other.  We couldn't incorporate a switch from 10 to 40 Hz within our time constraints though, that might be in the works within our engineering department by next year. The whole idea is to enhance gamma oscillations within the brain with 40 Hz and direct stimulation of the neurons with photons (instead of going through visual cortex) may play a part within the chromophores (mitochondria) and electrical signalling that takes place within that network.” link.

  • Quick, positive note about the Neuro and 880. Link.

  • From Vielight admin on Alpha vs Gamma:
    The Neuro Alpha's 10 Hz pulse rate correlates with the Alpha brainwave state in EEG readings, which is what is elevated when the brain is relaxed or calm. Additionally, Dr. Hamblin from Harvard found that cells absorb photons that are pulsed at 10 Hz better, as opposed to a steady stream of photons. All of this just lends to the overall goal of stimulating mitochondria (which are chromophores) to "energize" cells.

So, in a nutshell, the Neuro Alpha was designed to improve overall brain health.

The Neuro Gamma's 40 Hz pulse rate is more experimental and correlates with the Gamma brainwave state in EEG readings, which is linked to do the following : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19895855

Additionally, there's also the recent MIT study on rats, which is hypothesized to be disruptive versus amyloid beta plaques : http://news.mit.edu/2016/visual-stimulation-treatment-alzheimer-1207 . We'll be running clinical trials with St. Michael's Hospital in a year or two to determine the efficacy of direct brain photobiomodulation with 40 Hz, instead of going through the visual cortex.” link.

 

 


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#3 tms

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 01:14 PM

Ryan, a big big thank you for your feedback. I'm going to read this in detail. Have you tried lllt every other day, or 2 on 1 off instead of every day  -somebody suggested it could be better here https://www.reddit.c...7rc&sh=37135a6a and lostfalco here http://www.lostfalco...aser-therapy/.? even if it's a bit different than what you do. No side effect to report ?


Edited by tms, 01 January 2018 - 01:28 PM.






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