7 replies to this topic

[RegainBrain]

I use(d) Ritalin in small amounts for learning and to treat some of my ADD-symptoms.

 

Fortunately, I only need tiny amounts per learning session/using (5mg/3 hours).

 

But I have to be careful, that I don't build tolerance fast, because I can't handle everything over 10-15mg at once (to much physical side effects, when taken in long term).

 

Now, I want to make a short break to save the dopaminergic effect for times, were I really need it.

 

I searched up the internet for tolerance reduction to amphetamines and founded, that NMDA-antagonists can used for that purpose.

Many are using memantine, but I'm looking for a counter drug, so I want DXM to give a try.

 

I don't like these kinds of drugs (dissociatives), because I'm very afraid about the cognitive dulling (even in therapeutic dosages).

 

I planned, to do a 1-week-break from ritalin. I would take 10mg DXM before bed for 1 week.

Is this toooooo small? Does it make a different at all?

 

PS: I don't want to take everything over 30 mg of DXM.

 

PS: English is not my foreign language, sorry for spelling and stylistic mistakes. But I want to improve my english, so you are welcome, to correct me !

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

If you have ADD and have side-effects from higher dosages, then FORGET about the idea that it's dopamine-tolerance we're talking about: you may have SCT - Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - those of us with this disorder receives even LESS cognitive improvements from those drugs, even at therapeutic dosages, than even normal people!

 

That's because SCT is a disease of Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline, and NOT DOPAMINE!

 

Stimulants, at least Amphetamine and Methylphenidate, are both, for whatever reason, more selective towards Norepinephrine in smaller dosages - hence the pattern of SCT-ers using only small dosages of stimulants.

 

 

Apologies if this post sounds aggressive, but I don't want you to make any stupid mistakes, especially not of the variety I did - i.e, spending too much time trying to get stimulants to work, when they were never going to work. All it'll lead to, is depression and anxiety.

 

You can read more about SCT here, and determine if it sounds like a good fit for your symptoms:

 

https://de.wikipedia...cognitive_tempo

 

 

And in these links you can read a bit about stimulants and NE:

 

Treatment of adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2518387/

Methylphenidate in low doses, also enhances hippocampal norepinephrine efflux but does not seem to affect dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. The data are consistent with the hypothesis that enhanced noradrenergic neurotransmission, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, contributes to the effects of methylphenidate

 

 

 

Behavioral Effects of Low-Dose Methylphenidate in Childhood Attention Deficit Disorder: Implications for a Mechanism of Stimulant Drug Action

https://www.scienced...00271380960604X

 

(the above study even shows that at low dosages, stimulants can actually cause auto-receptor down-regulation of dopaminergic neurotransmission - which seems to fly in the face of people receiving helpful increases of DA from LOW dosages - obviously not...)

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 11 February 2018 - 04:13 PM.

[RegainBrain]

If you have ADD and have side-effects from higher dosages, then FORGET about the idea that it's dopamine-tolerance we're talking about: you may have SCT - Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - those of us with this disorder receives even LESS cognitive improvements from those drugs, even at therapeutic dosages, than even normal people!

 

That's because SCT is a disease of Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline, and NOT DOPAMINE!

 

Stimulants, at least Amphetamine and Methylphenidate, are both, for whatever reason, more selective towards Norepinephrine in smaller dosages - hence the pattern of SCT-ers using only small dosages of stimulants.

 

 

Apologies if this post sounds aggressive, but I don't want you to make any stupid mistakes, especially not of the variety I did - i.e, spending too much time trying to get stimulants to work, when they were never going to work. All it'll lead to, is depression and anxiety.

 

You can read more about SCT here, and determine if it sounds like a good fit for your symptoms:

 

https://de.wikipedia...cognitive_tempo

 

 

And in these links you can read a bit about stimulants and NE:

 

Treatment of adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2518387/

Methylphenidate in low doses, also enhances hippocampal norepinephrine efflux but does not seem to affect dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. The data are consistent with the hypothesis that enhanced noradrenergic neurotransmission, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, contributes to the effects of methylphenidate

 

 

 

Behavioral Effects of Low-Dose Methylphenidate in Childhood Attention Deficit Disorder: Implications for a Mechanism of Stimulant Drug Action

https://www.scienced...00271380960604X

 

(the above study even shows that at low dosages, stimulants can actually cause auto-receptor down-regulation of dopaminergic neurotransmission - which seems to fly in the face of people receiving helpful increases of DA from LOW dosages - obviously not...)

Thank you very much, I will take a look.

Don't understand it wrong, but I want to skip that now and return to the main question: Does DXM help in low doses (with dopamin tolerance)?

 

PS: I didn't introduced me fully, because I don't have enough time yet. I have a official adhd diagnosis with some complex and specific abnormalities (I can't explain it now, but I can give you some bullet points: adhd-PI, depressive behaviour (not depression as a disorder), high IQ and dramatical underachievment and mainly motivational problems= I never learned to learn). I can only reach my full potential, when I'm high as fuck...because, I never had the urge, to achieve etc.). My situation now is like a ADHD-disorder, which is my fault (partly)...but the differences between what I could do, and how I can perform now is so fu**ing big, that even my doctor was surprised and interested in...

 

PS: The reason, why I take only small dosages now, is, that I build a tolerance over 6 months, which leads (for what reason ever) to more side-effects.

Also my physical state isn't that well now...

I was able, to take 60 or whatever in a day WITHOUT the physical side-effects, I NOW have....this is what wonders me: the side-effects were non-existent in the beginning and appeard LATER (after 2-3 months of use)...the side-effects are: physical and mental exhaustion, sleepiness, depression.

 

The small dosage is effective, but I only take, because there is nothing effective what I can take now...

 

 

I will explain my situation later, when I have time, but now, you have just to trust me, that I'm not going the wrong way...so, let's get back to the main question:

Have someone here tried DXM in very small doses for tolerance reduction? Will the NMDA antagonist damage of DXM occurs in low dosages (in comparison to memantine, amantadine, it blocks the whole nmda, that is what it make so toxic(?))?

I imagine something like 10mg before bed for ~1 week in a row...how much would be the cost/use proportion

 

 

PS: SORRY for my bad english and my bad formation, I have very less time and I normally, I don't like to write/talk about stuff, where I could say more deeply, but can't, because of time issues...

[Mind_Paralysis]

All right, let's talk about tolerance then... Why aren't you trying to source Memantine instead? It's not impossible you know, and unlike DXM it's not neurotoxic. Although DXM could work in theory, it hasn't been used for such a purpose, to my knowledge, so it's hard to say if it'll definitively work at the lower dosages which you plan to use.

 

I suggest you just try and get Memantine instead, and work with that.

 

It also sounds as if you might have caused some damage to yourself from using too high of a dosage of stimulants - have you had an EKG to rule out that you don't have any heart-rhytm issues, or perhaps very high blood-pressure? Might be worth a look.

 

I suggest you also look into neurogenics, as you may have caused down-regulation of dopamine-receptors and possibly other, far worse problems with your brain, if you overdid the dosing even further.

[CWF1986]

I'm going to throw in my $0.02 since I have done this.  

 

I used store brand Delsym around every 12 hours at the doses recommended for coughing on the bottle for a week while taking a break from my adderall.  It definitely worked.  I did this again, but also supplemented with uridine before bed and this worked even better.  I took the uridine at bed because it seems to turn off the stimulation from adderall which is a bad thing for me during the day.

 

I stopped doing this because what I found from a therapeutic point of view is that I mostly gain tolerance to the side effect while the beneficial effects remain.  Sides like loss of appetite, insomnia, unhealthy level of euphoria, and obsessive type behaviours while still providing me with motivation, focus, and an easing of inner restlessness.  

 

I get loads and loads of exercise so that might have something to do with how unusually well I benefit from adderall over a period of a few years without increasing dosages but truthfully I'm just spit balling here.  

Edited by CWF1986, 17 February 2018 - 02:42 AM.

[CWF1986]

If you have ADD and have side-effects from higher dosages, then FORGET about the idea that it's dopamine-tolerance we're talking about: you may have SCT - Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - those of us with this disorder receives even LESS cognitive improvements from those drugs, even at therapeutic dosages, than even normal people!

 

That's because SCT is a disease of Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline, and NOT DOPAMINE!

 

 

 

Do you think ADHD-PI is the same thing as SCT or do you think it's a sub category of ADHD.  

 

I have been diagnosed by a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and confirmed by another psychiatrist all of whom I felt comfortable with their competence with ADHD-PI but I do have some of the symptoms of hyperactivity like a constant inner restlessness which got me in trouble when I was younger when I didn't know how to work with it.

 

But I do seem to do better with a lower dose of adderall.  20mg XR and it actually does work the 12 hours for me.  You've also seen me mention nortriptyline which is selective for NRI which also works for adhd among other issues.  

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

If you have ADD and have side-effects from higher dosages, then FORGET about the idea that it's dopamine-tolerance we're talking about: you may have SCT - Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - those of us with this disorder receives even LESS cognitive improvements from those drugs, even at therapeutic dosages, than even normal people!

 

That's because SCT is a disease of Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline, and NOT DOPAMINE!

 

 

 

Do you think ADHD-PI is the same thing as SCT or do you think it's a sub category of ADHD.  

 

I have been diagnosed by a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and confirmed by another psychiatrist all of whom I felt comfortable with their competence with ADHD-PI but I do have some of the symptoms of hyperactivity like a constant inner restlessness which got me in trouble when I was younger when I didn't know how to work with it.

 

But I do seem to do better with a lower dose of adderall.  20mg XR and it actually does work the 12 hours for me.  You've also seen me mention nortriptyline which is selective for NRI which also works for adhd among other issues.  

 

 

I think it's two different things - there's multiple groups whom are currently grouped together under the label ADHD-PI.

 

There are those whom have only SCT.

 

There are those whom have both ADHD and SCT.

 

And there are those whom have only ADHD but have been blessed with the mechanism which lessens some of the hyperactive symptoms with age. (this is a thing, a minority of adhd-ers actually get a lessening of some symptoms with age - the mechanism is unknown though.)

 

 

It should be noted that the preliminary statistical data on co-morbidity implies that up to 33% of everyone with SCT-symptoms also have ADHD - so the group which has both disorders, is bound to be a big one, under the ADHD-PI label.

[dopaminerush]

Man, just use some NAC titrate it up to 3200mg 3 times a day from 600mg 3 times a day. after that you can even feel 2.5mg.