6 replies to this topic

[dbm]

So, i am hoping not to ignite a war in which personal product promotion as slightly-veiled recommendations will occur.  

 

Long-story short, i am intersex (biological).  Mild form, if there is such a thing, not discovered until much later in life.  Several autoimmune diseases that i think were associated with it that make sense in retrospect - all of which are mostly under control.

 

Sparing you all the gory details, i am actually trying to achieve anti-androgen effects along with whatever basic health improvements i can make.  i take currently Meriva Curcumin and a high-dose EPA/DHA - and feel like these help quite a lot.  Reishi - which seems to be strongly linked to 5-alphareductase inhibition (prevents testosterone from being converted into the more potent DHT)  - seemed like a good one to add.  Anti-androgen, and lots of other nice benefits also.

 

With all that, was hoping to pick your brain on your recommendations given my situation.  

 

My understanding is that with Reishi - and mushroom-based supplements in general, there is a tremendous amount of hyped-up marketing going on, where people use terms that make them sound much better than they really are.  But from what i've read, you want something:

1.  Full spectrum

2.  Dual extract (ethanol and water) 

3.  With high percentage of beta-glucans (80-90% of the polysaccharides)

4.  With high percentage of triterpenes - especially important for me, since i think this is where most of the anti-androgen effects live.

 

The most convincing numbers so far have landed me at Oriveda's page - which are certainly not cheap.  Some others have most of the 4 points above, but not all.  For example Barlowe's Reishi extract claims 30% polysaccharides, dual extraction, full spectru, and 6% triterpenes, but when queried via email, said they had no idea what their beta glucan content was, and wasn't keen on providing it.

 

Anyways, would like to hear your thoughts and any recommendations that are in accordance with product promotion rules - or a PM if it would seem too much like product promotion.

 

Thank-you all very, very much!

[Benko]

In general there are arguments for and against buying standardized herbs e.g. you can only standardize for ingredients you know about.  What if the herbs contains several ingredients some known and some not known? Many herbs have long traditions of use and cultivation.  My personal bias is to buy e.g. Chinese herbs like Reishi from a trusted Chinese herbal supplier (caveat emptor) then products which are standardized extracts.

[dbm]

In general there are arguments for and against buying standardized herbs e.g. you can only standardize for ingredients you know about.  What if the herbs contains several ingredients some known and some not known? Many herbs have long traditions of use and cultivation.  My personal bias is to buy e.g. Chinese herbs like Reishi from a trusted Chinese herbal supplier (caveat emptor) then products which are standardized extracts.

 

Thank-you!

 

i have purchased some from Oriveda.  Rather ridiculously expensive - but there was nobody else who seemed to know what was in their product.  Lots of vague claims like 'we have good stuff in here' or 'these compounds are really great for your health'.  But when it comes down to actually putting what they claim on a label with numbers that mean something and having a COA that validates it - nobody else could do that.  At least not for beta-glucans - which according to some Pubmed stuff i was reading, is where a lot of the health benefits lie.

 

One other vendor who made claims equal to Oriveda was saying they were working on a 3rd party COA - next few months - so hopefully that will happen soon.

[Skyguy2005]

Getting quality Reishi is a pain in the arse, but it IS a miracle, no other mushroom really touches it. 

 

As someone experienced in Reishi and male, I don't know about anti-androgen effects? I never had a problem with etc. I still wake up in a tent from time to time etc.

 

RE: Choice I would try as many options of reasonable quality as possible. Extrapolate/average and you get an idea of what Reishi is. Better yet, get dried mushrooms from China of the good quality ("Daodi"). There is that bitter taste, and THAT is what you want. Better yet, you may learn the feeling that comes with Reishi.

Edited by Skyguy2005, 06 March 2018 - 04:12 AM.

[dbm]

Getting quality Reishi is a pain in the arse, but it IS a miracle, no other mushroom really touches it. 

 

As someone experienced in Reishi and male, I don't know about anti-androgen effects? I never had a problem with etc. I still wake up in a tent from time to time etc.

 

RE: Choice I would try as many options of reasonable quality as possible. Extrapolate/average and you get an idea of what Reishi is. Better yet, get dried mushrooms from China of the good quality ("Daodi"). There is that bitter taste, and THAT is what you want. Better yet, you may learn the feeling that comes with Reishi.

 

Thank-you!  i got some from Oriveda.  They were the only ones who could answer the questions i was asking.  

 

Actually one other company - Primal Herb - seemed to advertise similar things - like triterpenes, beta glucans, etc., - but could not produce any kind of a CoA to back up the beta glucans.  They said they were going to get on in a few months.  i hope so - they are less expensive.  

 

Do you have a recommend source for China?

 

here is the article that talks about the reduction in androgenic effects from reishi.  From what i've read, you have testosterone, but that is only responsible for a minority of androgenic effects in the male body.  Most of it is from DHT - which is made by 5 alpha reductase enzyme transforming testosterone into DHT.

 

http://diamantes500....androgenico.pdf

 

i wondered about just getting the original mushroom, but everything i read indicates that most of the beneficial compounds cannot be digested by people - and so they recommend a dual-extraction process - hot water and ethanol.  Though perhaps this is just the attempts of companies to try and sell more of their product.     

 

Anyways, thank-you very much.

[Benko]

He is not kidding about the bitter taste.  I take most Chinese herbs in powdered extract form in warm water, but Reishi is very bitter.  Make sure you get capsule form. 

 

Many sources for Chinese herbs are not GMP complaint and there is risk of contaminants.  I buy from Mayway/plum flower (no commercial interest) one that is GMP compliant.  I've had a few e-mail exchanges with the folks and Primal herb and they seem reliable.

 

[Dredd]

3 products i can think of will help you achieve your goal, Reishi being one of them as you've discovered already, i've tried oriveda product before without being aware of its DHT inhibiting properties only to discontinue taking it do to the overall "off" mental feeling it gave me, i suspect the DHT inhibition was to blame.

 

The other two products are Astaxanthin (12mg from bioAstin) and Prostate lx5 from NewChapter (mix of herbs with a sizeable amount of saw palmetto) i took these in combination so i cannot specify exactly which of them caused this effect but it was a powerful and totally undesirable one, long story short, it gave me tits and ass, from a skinny dude that cant gain weight to a skinny dude with a fat ass ,sore nipples and light case of gyno, as you can imagine i was pissed as i was not expecting these supplements to slowly turn me into a women.

 

as soon as these side effects started which didnt even take a month, i immediately discontinued them and thankfully all is well, body basically went back to where it was before taking these... fat is gone and while some breast tissue remain its unnoticeable, took a long time though, almost a year.

 

I plan on making an independent thread about these two supplements to warn people.

Edited by Dredd, 05 April 2018 - 05:34 PM.