8 replies to this topic

[nooguyz]

I was looking at many supplements and currently was reading about Ashwagandha. The author suggested that it is not recommended to use it with MAOIs, presumably because it's not good to use multiple MAOIs. I was wondering if he has a point or if it would be safe in my case? Of course I can just buy it and try it, but I don't want to have a supplement laying around that I'm never gonna use and that I spent money on.

 

Or does this only apply to some supplements, like Ashwagandha, for other reasons?

[Nate-2004]

Was not aware that ashwagandha had any MAOI aspects.

[nooguyz]

Was not aware that ashwagandha had any MAOI aspects.

I've later read that they are not strong and the mechanism is unknown. However my question is more about general MAOI, rather than Ashwagandha, as some herbs will overlap that have proven MAOI activity.

 

I was also wondering about any stacking rules or cycling rules. For example, I'm pretty sure I've to cycle Rosea, and Aswagandha for that matter. And speaking of Ashwagandha, it seems one has to take it multiple times a day, which is a deal breaker for me, unfortunately. But perhaps I should create another topic for that instead after I research more herbs from my list.

[Hannes2]

It is certainly possible to take multiple MAOIs without serious adverse effects, provided careful dosing, i.e. not starting with common doses of each but slowly up-titrating your way. If there is any benefit in such stacking is another matter, though.

 

Usually MAOIs need some time "to kick in", they are not addictive, so I don't know why you want to cycle them? 

 

You can stack MAOIs (always carefully) with many things - but never with potent serotonin reuptake inhibitors (adding the combo Carbidopa/Levidopa isn't a terribly good idea either).

Edited by Hannes2, 10 March 2018 - 07:33 PM.

[nooguyz]

It is certainly possible to take multiple MAOIs without serious adverse effects, provided careful dosing, i.e. not starting with common doses of each but slowly up-titrating your way. If there is any benefit in such stacking is another matter, though.

 

Usually MAOIs need some time "to kick in", they are not addictive, so I don't know why you want to cycle them? 

 

You can stack MAOIs (always carefully) with many things - but never with potent serotonin reuptake inhibitors (adding the combo Carbidopa/Levidopa isn't a terribly good idea either).

My reasoning for such a stack was that I have a very overactive MAO system and underproductive neurotransmitter production. Can you share your thoughts about lack of benefits in such a stack? It might save me tons of money in the end, if so. I've also read that they build tolerance, hence the cycling part though. Would also be interested in your thoughts and experiences about that. That would help me out a lot with my stack building. 

 

I do know about serotonin though, that is a dangerous mix. I need some boost in it, but that's provided by a lot of herbs anyway, usually in lower amounts. And MAOIs might just balance it by themselves, as I only know for sure that I severely underproduce dopamine, the other neurotransmitters might balance themselves more or less when I take MAOIs, especially with slight side-boosts from most herbs.

[Galaxyshock]

How about you start with one drug and see where that gets you? From your postings I seem to be getting the idea that you are gathering a medievil stack with no history of taking the substances individually.

 

Ashwagandha isn't a MAOI but actually may cancel the effect of a MAOI:

 

Onestudy in rats using using pentylenetetrazole to increase brain inhibition MAO-A (109.1%) and MAO-B (70.6%) activity noted that Ashwagandha glycowithanolides (1.13% yield from the root) at 20-50mg/kg was able to prevent said inhibitory activity;[104] this was also seen with the reference drug lorazepam (500µg/kg), suggesting that GABAergic signalling may be associated.[104]

→ source (external link)

[nooguyz]

How about you start with one drug and see where that gets you? From your postings I seem to be getting the idea that you are gathering a medievil stack with no history of taking the substances individually.

 

Ashwagandha isn't a MAOI but actually may cancel the effect of a MAOI:

 

Onestudy in rats using using pentylenetetrazole to increase brain inhibition MAO-A (109.1%) and MAO-B (70.6%) activity noted that Ashwagandha glycowithanolides (1.13% yield from the root) at 20-50mg/kg was able to prevent said inhibitory activity;[104] this was also seen with the reference drug lorazepam (500µg/kg), suggesting that GABAergic signalling may be associated.[104]

→ source (external link)

Hahaha, you're right, I was looking into many nootropics because I very very highly doubtful that just one thing will help me enough. I was thinking of a couple of potent MAOIs (focusing more on MAO-A if possible) and a couple of dopaminergic supplements would be a good start. So all the supplements I was looking at, I was focusing on that, and in the end choosing the ones with the least side-effects, least tolerance curve, strongest effects and most cost-effective (due to my very low budget). What do you think?

 

Thanks for that, I crossed it off my list.

 

P.S. I know that I'm all over the place in these forums, posting a lot of things... I just want to learn more about various substances, but mainly I just want to choose the best supplements for my case before buying anything at all due to my low budget. If my budget was higher, I'd just order a whole bunch of them and test them. Until now my experience is very slight unfortunately. I would really really love to try all kinds of supplements. I even considered buying low amounts, but the shipping would cost more than the supplements and the price of a low dose is usually a lot higher than of a dose for a whole year, which is what I would be investing in... So unfortunately I cannot get "test samples" for a low price, to just see how they feel and what ACTUALLY works for me 100%. Perhaps then I would have to stick to simply researching the tolerance curve, dosage, side-effects and contraindications instead of posting tens of posts and reading for a month instead of doing something about my problems, not to mention the fact that some days (last few days) I don't have any motivation at all and I just sit watching a TV show and waiting to sleep.

[Hannes2]

Well, if you do think you have an overactive MAO activity, then why not start with a single potent, irreversible MAOI, like phenelzine (Nardil) or tranylcypromine (Parnate, Jatrosom)? I'm not aware of addiction or fast tolerance to the anti-depressent, anti-anxiety effect that could be prevented by cycling (though some people report sudden "poop out" after very long time). If it does not work out for you on a long term, you can still try out cycling. 

 

I don't see the benefit in stacking MAOIs as prescription drugs already provide complete or nearly complete MAO inhibition at sufficiently high therapeutic doses and you cannot get higher than 100% MAO inhibition, I would think. I did stack a lower dose of tranylcypromine with selegiline for a short time, but cannot say if this had therapeutic benefit. 

Edited by Hannes2, 11 March 2018 - 01:25 PM.

[nooguyz]

Well, if you do think you have an overactive MAO activity, then why not start with a single potent, irreversible MAOI, like phenelzine (Nardil) or tranylcypromine (Parnate, Jatrosom)? I'm not aware of addiction or fast tolerance to the anti-depressent, anti-anxiety effect that could be prevented by cycling (though some people report sudden "poop out" after very long time). If it does not work out for you on a long term, you can still try out cycling. 

 

I don't see the benefit in stacking MAOIs as prescription drugs already provide complete or nearly complete MAO inhibition at sufficiently high therapeutic doses and you cannot get higher than 100% MAO inhibition, I would think. I did stack a lower dose of tranylcypromine with selegiline for a short time, but cannot say if this had therapeutic benefit. 

Well, the main problem with prescription drugs is that my insurance doesn't cover it. another problem is that there are no doctors here, and third problem is that I'd much prefer natural substances (and without additives). I also did not think of that before, really. Another problem is that being diagnosed in depression (as opposed to ADHD) it is accompanied by visits to a therapist, and I sure as hell not going to tell my thoughts to some random guy, not to mention travel costs due to lack of English-speaking therapists here. Another possibility - if they think that I'm really bad, I could be placed in a mental institution, so I want to be really careful with diagnoses. ADHD doesn't have those risks or at least they are very low.

 

So for now, I have decided to stick to herbs and try something (and if that doesn't work, something else) to get myself out of this mess. I will still wait for the reply about medications prescribed here and the costs, and unless it's really cheap (which is very doubtful), I will just stop worrying or caring about prescription drugs. I already feel slightly better not thinking "damn docs can't even prescribe me meds I need".

Edited by nooguyz, 11 March 2018 - 01:37 PM.