344 replies to this topic

[rwac]

tlm884, on 13-Jun 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

I downloaded the article and put it on my school fileserver https://homepage.usa...884/imminst.pdf

tlm884, thanks a bunch.

[tlm884]

rwac, on 13-Jun 2009, 08:40 PM, said:

tlm884, on 13-Jun 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

I downloaded the article and put it on my school fileserver https://homepage.usa...884/imminst.pdf

tlm884, thanks a bunch.

By the looks of things, if you want the most out of methylene blues effects on the brain IV administration would be the best bet. However, this is most likely not the easiest route for people. Oral administration results in high concentrations of methylene blue in the liver and intestines and low serum concentrations. However, the LD50 (1180mg/kg in rats) is high enough that you could probably boost your dose a bit to get higher serum concentrations. Multiple daily dosing is also needed as the half life is ~5hours. 2-3 times a day would be sufficient to keep serum levels from changing too much throughout the day but OD dosing would result in extended periods of low serum concentration.

[rwac]

tlm884, on 14-Jun 2009, 03:10 AM, said:

By the looks of things, if you want the most out of methylene blues effects on the brain IV administration would be the best bet. However, this is most likely not the easiest route for people. Oral administration results in high concentrations of methylene blue in the liver and intestines and low serum concentrations. However, the LD50 (1180mg/kg in rats) is high enough that you could probably boost your dose a bit to get higher serum concentrations. Multiple daily dosing is also needed as the half life is ~5hours. 2-3 times a day would be sufficient to keep serum levels from changing too much throughout the day but OD dosing would result in extended periods of low serum concentration.

We don't really want to maximize serum concentration, since MB only improves mitochondrial function in a specific range.

It's nice that Oral administration actually yields a more steady serum level, which is what we're looking for here.

[tlm884]

rwac, on 14-Jun 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

tlm884, on 14-Jun 2009, 03:10 AM, said:

By the looks of things, if you want the most out of methylene blues effects on the brain IV administration would be the best bet. However, this is most likely not the easiest route for people. Oral administration results in high concentrations of methylene blue in the liver and intestines and low serum concentrations. However, the LD50 (1180mg/kg in rats) is high enough that you could probably boost your dose a bit to get higher serum concentrations. Multiple daily dosing is also needed as the half life is ~5hours. 2-3 times a day would be sufficient to keep serum levels from changing too much throughout the day but OD dosing would result in extended periods of low serum concentration.

We don't really want to maximize serum concentration, since MB only improves mitochondrial function in a specific range.

It's nice that Oral administration actually yields a more steady serum level, which is what we're looking for here.

But with oral administration you need serum levels to reach the brain. If the serum level is too low the methelyne blue will just stay in the liver

[rwac]

Hmmm, Methylene Blue reduces insulin response to glucose.

I presume this isn't a problem if you're on a low-carb diet, but is this a significant problem ?
The concentration they're using is about 1.5 nM to 10 nM

http://www.springerl...0v305830357303/

Quote

Effect of Methylene Blue on pyridine nucleotides and insulin secretion of rat pancreatic islets   H. P. T. Ammon^{1, 2} and E. J. Verspohl^{1, 2}

(1) Abteilung für Pharmakologie der Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg, FRG<a name="Aff2">(2) Pharmazeutisches Institut der Universität Tübingen, FRGReceived: 12 September 1978  Revised: 5 February 1979  

Summary  Methylene  Blue, which is known to oxidise NADPH in red blood cells, was used to  assess a possible role of NADPH in the glucose-stimulated secretion of  insulin. When islets from rats were incubated with 3 mg/ml of glucose,  Methylene Blue (0.5, 1.0, 2.0 or 5.0 g/ml) significantly decreased the concentration of NADPH, increased that of NADP⁺ and decreased the NADPH/NADP⁺  ratio in a dose-dependent manner. This effect was associated with  inhibition of the glucose-induced insulin release. No significant  change of NADH, NAD⁺ and ATP could be observed. It is  suggested that the secretory response of the pancreatic islet to  glucose stimulation depends on the NADPH/NADP⁺ ratio.

[rwac]

Whoops, my numbers are wrong. It's actually 1.5 M to 10 M, This is actually a much higher concentration.
I suppose that this effect will not be a problem at the < 100nM concentration

rwac, on 22-Jun 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

Hmmm, Methylene Blue reduces insulin response to glucose.

I presume this isn't a problem if you're on a low-carb diet, but is this a significant problem ?
The concentration they're using is about 1.5 nM to 10 nM

http://www.springerl...0v305830357303/

Quote

Effect of Methylene Blue on pyridine nucleotides and insulin secretion of rat pancreatic islets   H. P. T. Ammon^{1, 2} and E. J. Verspohl^{1, 2}

(1) Abteilung für Pharmakologie der Universität Erlangen-Nürnberg, FRG<a name="Aff2">(2) Pharmazeutisches Institut der Universität Tübingen, FRGReceived: 12 September 1978  Revised: 5 February 1979  

Summary  Methylene  Blue, which is known to oxidise NADPH in red blood cells, was used to  assess a possible role of NADPH in the glucose-stimulated secretion of  insulin. When islets from rats were incubated with 3 mg/ml of glucose,  Methylene Blue (0.5, 1.0, 2.0 or 5.0 g/ml) significantly decreased the concentration of NADPH, increased that of NADP⁺ and decreased the NADPH/NADP⁺  ratio in a dose-dependent manner. This effect was associated with  inhibition of the glucose-induced insulin release. No significant  change of NADH, NAD⁺ and ATP could be observed. It is  suggested that the secretory response of the pancreatic islet to  glucose stimulation depends on the NADPH/NADP⁺ ratio.

tlm884: Here's geddarkstorm's response to the issue of purity.

geddarkstorm, on 5-Feb 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

@niner:  I've seen analytical reports on MB purity for the kind sold to  consumers, and all the heavy metal levels where well below the  strictest limits. Even if some metals like mercury or lead, for the  sake of argument, were in the low ppb range, when you are taking just  100 microliters of that solution, you'll only be getting the equivalent  of 100 parts per quadrillion amounts; well below detection, and you  probably get an order of magnitude or two more than that in your  drinking water. Furthermore, MB is used to treat fish of fungal  diseases and other pests, and fish are more sensitive to heavy metals  than us, from what I know.

My area of research is directly on  a mouse/human metal sensor protein (for zinc), which also responds to  heavy metals. Our bodies have a lot of heavy metal defenses. Metals  just aren't quite as dangerous (nor is radiation) as we treat them, but  better safe than sorry!

Edited by rwac, 23 June 2009 - 04:34 AM.

[guaif1]

zawy, on 19-Feb 2009, 08:14 AM, said:

Here's an interesting article on MB and red light to treat cancer.  It seems like this idea goes back to 1989.

http://cancerres.aac...ull/63/4/776#B8

"Treatment of cancer by PDT (photodynamic light therapy) usually involves the generation of reactive, excited oxygen molecules (1) A photosensitizing dye absorbs light, exciting it to an energetic triplet state capable of transferring its energy efficiently to ground state, triplet molecular oxygen to form excited, singlet oxygen. .... Because red light penetrates tissue much deeper than that of shorter wavelength, photosensitizers absorbing in the red are preferred. Phenothiazinium dyes such as MB⁺ or TB⁺ absorb strongly at approximately 600–670 nm, and have been identified as having potential for cancer diagnosis or treatment. ..... MB⁺ has been extensively investigated as a photocatalyst of oxidative processes, in experimental PDT in vitro and in vivo, and in limited clinical studies involving PDT (8,9) . We hypothesized that these dyes could be photocatalysts of oxidation of IAA, the commonest plant auxin (growth hormone), the dye triplet state oxidizing IAA to produce a radical-cation (Fig. 1) ....We have shown that products of IAA oxidation are cytotoxic to mammalian cells, including human tumor cells. Thus, the combination of IAA or suitable analogues with these photosensitizers could provide an alternative route to photosensitized cell killing not involving singlet oxygen. ... We show here that IAA, a common, nontoxic plant chemical, is transformed into potent cytotoxins using red light and these phenothiazinium dyes that are already in clinical use. Activating IAA rather than oxygen to form cytotoxins offers the potential to treat hypoxic tumors effectively.

In conclusion, the present results show that the phototoxicity of MB⁺ and TB⁺ is enhanced dramatically by the presence of IAA at concentrations likely to be achievable in humans. The use of IAA, or analogues with modified redox properties, with these or other suitable photosensitizers is attractive because of the opportunity for rational selection of both photosensitizer and IAA analogue, based on thermodynamic (redox) and kinetic arguments. In principle, a requirement is that the reduction potential of the photosensitizer triplet state [e.g., of the couple   MB⁺/MB^·, where MB^· is the radical (semiquinone)] is higher than that of the indolyl radical cation (IAA^·+/IAA); ideally, the reduced dye should also be efficiently "redox cycled" to the parent dye by oxygen. These requirements appear to be fulfilled for MB⁺ and IAA."

    I imagine light sticks being for throat and prostate cancer.

and it seems like if you take MB and get a lot of sun light it could kill viruses in the blood:  "An increasingly important medical use of MB⁺ exploiting its photodynamic activity is to reduce viral contamination of blood plasma by MB⁺ and light."

"The prevalence of West Nile virus (WNV) infections and associated morbidity has accelerated in recent years. Of particular concern is the recent demonstration that this virus can be transmitted by blood products and can cause severe illness and mortality in transfusion recipients. We have evaluated methylene blue (MB) + light as a safe and cost-effective means to inactivate WNV in vitro. This regimen inactivated WNV with an IC₅₀ of 0.10 μM. Up to 10⁷ pfu/ml of WNV could be inactivated by MB + light with no residual infectivity. MB + light inactivated three primary WNV isolates from the years 1999, 2002 and 2003 and prevented mortality in a murine model for WNV infection. Since MB is already approved for human use at a dose of 100 mg/kg/day, we conjecture that MB + light treatment of blood products for high-risk patients will be efficacious and suitable for use in resource-limited settings."

FWIW, i've had a low level chronic lung infection for weeks/months.  it abated when i started taking a low dose of methylene blue twice a day.  if i miss a dose the infection seems to come back.  The dose i take is a quarter of drop twice a day ( e..g, one drop in 8 ounces of water, which lasts 2 days)  i use mb that i purchased in a pet store and that is sold to clean aquariums.

[stephen_b]

Methylene blue prevents the stimulation of collagen gene expression (PMID 1962560).

Quote

Ascorbic acid (0.2 mmol/L) induced lipid peroxidation and stimulated collagen alpha 1(I) gene transcription in cultured human fibroblasts. Inhibition of the ascorbic acid-induced lipid peroxidation in cultured human fibroblasts with alpha-tocopherol (50 mumol/L) or methylene blue (10 mumol/L) prevented the stimulation of collagen gene expression.

Perhaps good if collagen production is not desirable in response to lipid peroxidation?

Edited by stephen_b, 23 July 2009 - 05:45 PM.

[Lufega]

stephen_b, on Jul 23 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

Methylene blue prevents the stimulation of collagen gene expression (PMID 1962560).

Perhaps good if collagen production is not desirable in response to lipid peroxidation?

This is good news.  Perhaps this can delay or prevent the formation of myxedema in thyroid abnormalities.

[AgeVivo]

?!? with this kind of view, pretty much any effects from anything is good, as long as you find the rare specific disease that it possibly alleviates
personally i'm many more times interested in knowing whether mice live longer under methylene blue

[rwac]

AgeVivo, on Jul 24 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

?!? with this kind of view, pretty much any effects from anything is good, as long as you find the rare specific disease that it possibly alleviates
personally i'm many more times interested in knowing whether mice live longer under methylene blue

We're all waiting for somebody to test whether mice live longer.
I don't see the problem with discussing other effects until then, and MB has many many beneficial effects.

btw, what are you upto with your mice ?

[AgeVivo]

rwac, on Jul 24 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

I don't see the problem with discussing other effects

me neither

rwac, on Jul 24 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

and MB has many many beneficial effects

i'm not sure preventing collagen production is good in general. Plus this is in vitro results under very specific tests. concluding that MB is beneficial in general, based on such minor observation is IMO very biased. this is what i meant

rwac, on Jul 24 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

We're all waiting for somebody to test whether mice live longer.

rwac, on Jul 24 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

btw, what are you upto with your mice ?

haven't you seen the MPrize @ home threads?
http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=21310
http://www.imminst.o...ome-t30474.html
http://www.mfoundati...read.php?t=1368
i have 2 mice drinking methylene blue, we're looking for approx 6 more persons to co-test the effects of methylene blue on mice, at home. Want to join?

[aaCharley]

Report on result of new study:

Protein Inhibitor Helps Rid Brain Of Toxic Tau Protein
http://www.scienceda...90929181808.htm

Working with researchers at the University of Michigan, the USF team tested the effects of several compounds on Hsp70 in cell models and brain tissue from mice genetically modified to develop the memory-choking tau tangles. Some compounds activated Hsp70, and others were Hsp70-inhibitors.

One of the more effective Hsp70-inhibitor drugs the researchers discovered was a derivative of methylthioninium chloride, or Rember™, the first experimental medication reported to directly attack the tau tangles in patients with Alzheimer's disease. Rember™ was heralded as a major development in the fight against Alzheimer's when results in early clinical trials were announced last year at the International Conference on Alzheimer's disease.

But Rember™ and its derivatives do have some inherent problems; they're not very potent so effective therapy would require fairly high doses, Dickey said.

"The drug does help prevent the protein (tau) from clumping together, but that in itself doesn't mean it's actively getting rid of the toxic tau," he said. "Now that we know Hsp70 is a target of Rember™, we can develop similarly-acting drugs that will more specifically target this chaperone protein in affected areas of the brain, resulting in fewer side effects."

[rwac]

One problem with MB is that the concentration in high metabolism areas (brain and liver) is likely much higher than concentration in other areas. This would mean that other organs don't see the effect of MB.

So we'd like to use higher doses. MB dosage is limited by cytochrome C concentration.

Atamna et al. said:

The MB-dependent increase in oxidant production at the high concentration of MB could be due to MBH₂ auto-oxidization by O₂ to form a superoxide radical. Because it is known that MBH₂ preferentially reduces cytochrome c over O₂ (40), we suspected that the levels of cytochrome c in the mitochondrial lysate become limiting in the presence of 1 or 10 µM MB. Therefore, we tested whether cytochrome c added in excess to the mitochondrial lysate could block the production of oxidants by 10 µM MB. We found that adding cytochrome c to the mitochondrial lysate did, in fact, eliminate the MB-dependent increase in the oxidation of DCFH

So we want to increase mitochondrial cyt c so we can use larger doses of MB.

Anbody have any good ideas to increase cyt-c concentration ?
Perhaps Ischaemic Preconditioning ?
Is this even a good idea ?

http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=19296922

Some examples of Preconditioning from table in above article.

Quote

One of the earliest examples of pharmacological preconditioning was the  mild inhibition of the respiratory chain with nitropropionic acid or  acetylsalicylic acid,^{http://www.pubmedcen...tid=2668955#R38}  which induced cellular changes such as those seen with hypoxia. Another  relevant example is the use of the iron chelator desferrioxamine,  which induces nuclear translocation of the transcription factor  hypoxia-inducible factor 1, with consequent expression of a plethora of  hypoxia-inducible genes, including erythropoietin, vascular endothelial  growth factor, and hexokinase

Examples include inhibitors of mitochondrial respiration, stabilisers  of hypoxia-inducible factor 1 (signal: hypoxia), or lipopolysaccharide  (signal: infection)

[laurence]

rwac, on Jul 25 2009, 01:50 AM, said:

We're all waiting for somebody to test whether mice live longer.
I don't see the problem with discussing other effects until then, and MB has many many beneficial effects.

Toxicity and carcinogenicity studies of methylene blue trihydrate in F344N rats and B6C3F1 mice.

Quote

Methylene blue trihydrate has a variety of biomedical and biologically  therapeutic applications. Groups of 50 male and 50 female rats and mice  were administered methylene blue trihydrate in 0.5% aqueous  methylcellulose solution by gavage at doses of 0, 5, 25, or 50 mg/kg  bw/day (rats) or 0, 2.5, 12.5, and 25 mg/kg bw/day (mice), 5 days per  week for 2 years. In rats survival of all dosed groups was similar to  that of the vehicle controls, whereas mice exhibited a dose-dependent  increase in survival. Rats receiving 25 and 50 mg/kg bw/day and mice  receiving 25 mg/kg bw/day developed mild anemia. The incidences of  pancreatic islet cell adenoma and adenoma or carcinoma (combined) were  increased in all dosed groups of male rats, but increases were  statistically significant in 25 mg/kg bw/day males only and the  dose-response was non-linear. There was a corresponding increase in the  incidence of pancreatic islet cell hyperplasia but statistically  significant only in the 50 mg/kg bw/day male rats. There were no  significant increases in neoplastic transformation observed in the  mice; however, positive trends were noted for adenoma or carcinoma  (combined) of the small intestine and malignant lymphoma.

Not the same as living longer but it points in the right direction. Are the dosages used too large to cause concern about the noted carcinomas?

[rwac]

orb1, on Oct 19 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

Not the same as living longer but it points in the right direction. Are the dosages used too large to cause concern about the noted carcinomas?

Yeah, the doses are much higher than the ones we're talking about.

However, a dose-dependent  increase in survival would mean that we need *much* larger doses for life extension.

It's also nice to find the potential trouble spots. Pancreas because MB interferes with ROS signaling, and intestine because it is exposed to large doses of MB which is pro-oxidant.

Edited by rwac, 19 October 2009 - 04:27 PM.

[nameless]

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'd consider that mouse study a negative. Without human studies, isn't there some concern over long term use? The carcinoma thing would worry me... actually, taking fish medicine would worry me too...

Perhaps it is simply the MAO Inhibition affect causing those taking MB to perceive a benefit? A placebo test would also be interesting, although that could be difficult to run -- guess some blue dye drops might work.

[abelard lindsay]

nameless, on Oct 19 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'd consider that mouse study a negative. Without human studies, isn't there some concern over long term use? The carcinoma thing would worry me... actually, taking fish medicine would worry me too...

Perhaps it is simply the MAO Inhibition affect causing those taking MB to perceive a benefit? A placebo test would also be interesting, although that could be difficult to run -- guess some blue dye drops might work.

Its positive effects may also be due to its strong anti-microbial and anti-fungal properties.  That's what it's used for after all, to remove fungal, bacterial and parasitical infections from fish tanks.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 20 October 2009 - 02:58 AM.

[niner]

rwac, on Oct 19 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

orb1, on Oct 19 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

Not the same as living longer but it points in the right direction. Are the dosages used too large to cause concern about the noted carcinomas?

Yeah, the doses are much higher than the ones we're talking about.

However, a dose-dependent  increase in survival would mean that we need *much* larger doses for life extension.

Since the doses are, what, 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than we're using, I'm not terrifically worried about the carcinomas.  The dose-dependent increase in survival is interesting, but given the dose, it makes me think that there is something else going on in the high-dose regime compared to the low-dose regime.

[nameless]

abelard lindsay, on Oct 20 2009, 02:53 AM, said:

nameless, on Oct 19 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'd consider that mouse study a negative. Without human studies, isn't there some concern over long term use? The carcinoma thing would worry me... actually, taking fish medicine would worry me too...

Perhaps it is simply the MAO Inhibition affect causing those taking MB to perceive a benefit? A placebo test would also be interesting, although that could be difficult to run -- guess some blue dye drops might work.

Its positive effects may also be due to its strong anti-microbial and anti-fungal properties.  That's what it's used for after all, to remove fungal, bacterial and parasitical infections from fish tanks.

True. And I didn't mean to imply the benefits were solely in a person's head (placebo or depression related). I just know some of the reports like tiny tiny doses having a greater effect than normal dosing, or CoQ10 possibly interfering with MB (although apparently not if dosed at a different time, even though half-life of CoQ10 is rather long)... sounds strange.

[rwac]

niner, on Oct 19 2009, 09:27 PM, said:

Since the doses are, what, 5-6 orders of magnitude higher than we're using, I'm not terrifically worried about the carcinomas.  The dose-dependent increase in survival is interesting, but given the dose, it makes me think that there is something else going on in the high-dose regime compared to the low-dose regime.

I wouldn't say 5-6 orders. Several people are using a few 100 mcg. So probably more like 3-4 orders of magnitude.

Perhaps constant use of an antimicrobial will generally increase survival ?
Hey, what do you know Rapamycin is an antibiotic too!

Edited by rwac, 20 October 2009 - 03:52 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

Just found this out while researching MB on pubmed:  It is about as close to the male birth control pill as it gets.  Luckily this stuff is very soluble and not permanently stuck in one's system.

Quote

Effect of methylene blue, indigo carmine, and Renografin on human sperm motility.

Sheynkin YR, Starr C, Li PS, Goldstein M.

Department of Urology, Center for Male Reproductive Medicine and Microsurgery, New York Hospital-Cornell Medical Center, New York, New York 10021, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the effect of commonly used intraoperative vasography and tissue staining agents, indigo carmine, methylene blue, and Renografin, on sperm motility. METHODS: Semen from 20 healthy men was obtained after 2 to 4 days of abstinence. Sperm motility was initially evaluated in each specimen. Standard solutions of indigo carmine, methylene blue, and Renografin-60 were diluted 2x and 4x with lactated Ringer's solution. Equal aliquots of sperm were mixed with undiluted and diluted drugs, and sperm motility was assessed. RESULTS: Initial mean sperm motility was 70.3%+/-3.0%. Undiluted methylene blue and Renografin severely depressed sperm motility to 1.1%+/-0.5% and 2.3%+/-0.7%, respectively (P <0.05). Diluted methylene blue depressed motility to 4.9%+/-1.8% and 11.2%+/-3.0% (P < 0.05). Diluted Renografin depressed motility to 25.1%+/-4.1% and 55.3%+/-3.3% (P < 0.05). Although undiluted and 2x-diluted indigo carmine moderately decreased sperm motility (48.9%+/-3.2% and 61.7%+/-3.0%, P < 0.05), 4x-diluted indigo carmine had minimal effect on sperm motility (67.3%+/-2.8%, P > 0.05). Lactated Ringer's solution had no effect on sperm motility. CONCLUSIONS: We found a severe, immediate reduction in sperm motility after exposure to undiluted standard solutions of methylene blue and Renografin. Dilution of Renografin significantly decreased its negative impact on the sperm motility, whereas the adverse effect of methylene blue remained fairly constant even with increasing dilution. Sperm motility should be assessed prior to application of these agents. Sperm should be aspirated for immediate use and/or cryopreservation prior to the use of these agents. Indigo carmine may be safely used as a tissue stain or vasography agent with a minimal effect on sperm motility in dilutions of 4x and higher.

PMID: 9886615 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by abelard lindsay, 01 November 2009 - 08:16 PM.

[rwac]

abelard lindsay, on Nov 1 2009, 01:15 PM, said:

Effect of methylene blue, indigo carmine, and Renografin on human sperm motility.

...
CONCLUSIONS: We found a severe, immediate reduction in sperm motility after exposure to undiluted standard solutions of methylene blue and Renografin. Dilution of Renografin significantly decreased its negative impact on the sperm motility, whereas the adverse effect of methylene blue remained fairly constant even with increasing dilution. Sperm motility should be assessed prior to application of these agents. Sperm should be aspirated for immediate use and/or cryopreservation prior to the use of these agents. Indigo carmine may be safely used as a tissue stain or vasography agent with a minimal effect on sperm motility in dilutions of 4x and higher.

PMID: 9886615 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Can somebody with access find out what the concentration of the "standard" methylene blue solution was ?

Edited by rwac, 01 November 2009 - 11:36 PM.

[niner]

If it's being used as a tissue staining agent, then it's probably pretty concentrated.  I suspect that at the concentration that we'd be using, the effects on sperm motility would be gone.

[rwac]

niner, on Nov 1 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

If it's being used as a tissue staining agent, then it's probably pretty concentrated.  I suspect that at the concentration that we'd be using, the effects on sperm motility would be gone.

That brings up an interesting point. Supercharged sperm can cause problems of their own ...

Edited by rwac, 02 November 2009 - 01:56 AM.

[Lufega]

I wouldn't worry about the sperm motility issue.  I've been using MB for about 4 months now?  Two months ago I got my GF pregnant.

As far using CoQ10 and MB blue together, it really didn't make a difference what time I placed these two apart.  For me, they did not work together.  So I have to choose to either take MB and CoQ10.  But trust me, there is NO placebo effect with MB.  This stuff really makes you sharp.

I'm really surprised more people aren't jumping on this, especially since a drug was developed because this worked so well.

[nameless]

Lufega, on Nov 2 2009, 05:57 PM, said:

As far using CoQ10 and MB blue together, it really didn't make a difference what time I placed these two apart.  For me, they did not work together.  So I have to choose to either take MB and CoQ10.  But trust me, there is NO placebo effect with MB.  This stuff really makes you sharp.

I'm really surprised more people aren't jumping on this, especially since a drug was developed because this worked so well.

It is interesting, and I won't deny the possibility of real benefits, but what I think scares most people off (scares me off, anyway), is lack of long-term safety data, and the fact the only real way to get it is by using fish medicine. I'm somewhat conservative regarding sourcing safe supplements as it is, meant for human use. Going to the pet shop to get MB feels like too big a risk to me.

[rwac]

nameless, on Nov 2 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

Going to the pet shop to get MB feels like too big a risk to me.

FYI, you can probably also get it as a lab chemical.
It's probably harder to find, though.

[abelard lindsay]

For those who are interested, here's a site listing a whole bunch of things MB is reported to be a cure for:

http://www.earthclin...ylene-blue.html

[aaCharley]

rwac, on Oct 19 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

orb1, on Oct 19 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

Not the same as living longer but it points in the right direction. Are the dosages used too large to cause concern about the noted carcinomas?

Yeah, the doses are much higher than the ones we're talking about.

However, a dose-dependent  increase in survival would mean that we need *much* larger doses for life extension.

It's also nice to find the potential trouble spots. Pancreas because MB interferes with ROS signaling, and intestine because it is exposed to large doses of MB which is pro-oxidant.

I can believe that MB can be effective in lots of ways, particularly as a fungal fighter.  The effect on clearing the taus would be great and might not really require continual use.  However what I do not see addressed is the effect that it may have on the beneficial microbes and bacteria that inhabit the gut.  If the MB wipes out the beneficial organisims while accomplishing the good work in some other part of the body, it might not be wise to take it for any length of time.  Does anyone have any thoughts on how the MB would effect the gut microbes.