301 replies to this topic

[MrHappy]

Looks really interesting. Thanks guys!
Here's a how-to I found:
http://www.eft-alive...-to-do-EFT.html

[ViolettVol]

longevitynow, on 14 October 2011 - 02:28 AM, said:

5-HTP is the bomb for all these conditions. IMO works as well as the SSRIs without the side effects, and as quickly. I'd recommend starting at 50mg before bed and you can increase slowly by 50 mgs until you get up to 200. That is enough for most. Take on an empty stomach before bed. Helps you stay asleep much better. And cures those other symptoms. If on an SSRI, my experience is 5-HTP can help you get off them, but start 5-HTP very slowly and then as you increase 5-HTP, lower SSRI very slowly. This should not be construed as medical advice even if it works...

I might do that if the anxiety is zoloft and OCD -related. BUT i think it is also related to my lak of acceptance of the plae im at in my life and my age,.
I really need a supplement that keeps me calm and level. Right now after i wake up with my heart thumping like mad with all sorts of bad thoughts running through my head I've takn to popping a half pill of ambien in the late morning. I kno its slleping med but it makes me calm for a few hours, allows me to do my work and perform tasks. The other alternative for calming me down would be alcohol and i dont want that because it AGES and causes anxiety later on . I know ambien is only a temporary solution cause after two weeks it doesnt even work anymore, but hey, anything to keep myself from experiencing the hell of these emotions.

[manic_racetam]

ViolettVol, on 15 October 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I might do that if the anxiety is zoloft and OCD -related. BUT i think it is also related to my lak of acceptance of the plae im at in my life and my age,.
I really need a supplement that keeps me calm and level. Right now after i wake up with my heart thumping like mad with all sorts of bad thoughts running through my head I've takn to popping a half pill of ambien in the late morning. I kno its slleping med but it makes me calm for a few hours, allows me to do my work and perform tasks. The other alternative for calming me down would be alcohol and i dont want that because it AGES and causes anxiety later on . I know ambien is only a temporary solution cause after two weeks it doesnt even work anymore, but hey, anything to keep myself from experiencing the hell of these emotions.

You should check out these guided meditation CD's by Mark Grant.  Especially the one called "Calm and Confident- Overcome Stress and Anxiety with EMDR"   He's this Australian dude specializing in trauma issues.  That single CD has helped me out of uncountable sleepless nights.  It actually works, which is why I like it.

You can download the torrent too.  I downloaded the torrent and used the file for a year, then finally decided to buy the CD.  Passed it along to my mom and my sister in law.  My sister in law uses it at least once a week.

There are plenty of non-medical approaches that put the power in your own hands to control this type of anxiety.  If you are able to deal with the issues and come to terms with them then there will be no need to take a pill everyday.  Good luck and stay positive.

[ViolettVol]

manic_racetam, on 15 October 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

ViolettVol, on 15 October 2011 - 03:12 PM, said:

I might do that if the anxiety is zoloft and OCD -related. BUT i think it is also related to my lak of acceptance of the plae im at in my life and my age,.
I really need a supplement that keeps me calm and level. Right now after i wake up with my heart thumping like mad with all sorts of bad thoughts running through my head I've takn to popping a half pill of ambien in the late morning. I kno its slleping med but it makes me calm for a few hours, allows me to do my work and perform tasks. The other alternative for calming me down would be alcohol and i dont want that because it AGES and causes anxiety later on . I know ambien is only a temporary solution cause after two weeks it doesnt even work anymore, but hey, anything to keep myself from experiencing the hell of these emotions.

You should check out these guided meditation CD's by Mark Grant.  Especially the one called "Calm and Confident- Overcome Stress and Anxiety with EMDR"   He's this Australian dude specializing in trauma issues.  That single CD has helped me out of uncountable sleepless nights.  It actually works, which is why I like it.

You can download the torrent too.  I downloaded the torrent and used the file for a year, then finally decided to buy the CD.  Passed it along to my mom and my sister in law.  My sister in law uses it at least once a week.

There are plenty of non-medical approaches that put the power in your own hands to control this type of anxiety.  If you are able to deal with the issues and come to terms with them then there will be no need to take a pill everyday.  Good luck and stay positive.

Thank you, I will definietly try this. My inner life is so nightmarish that I'm reaady to try almost anything.
It's like I;m in my own private hell, every day, and the OCD is making  me think I deserve this, while I know I have to somehow break free. I want to scream.

[MrHappy]

Actually, the fact that you are waking up like that probably shows that the effects are occuring when there is the least Zoloft in your system.
The previous suggestion for 5-HTP, if supplemented VERY gradually and carefully with Zoloft, but 12 hours apart, may negate the effects you are currently having.

I'd still look for a long-term goal of getting off Zoloft, but this may help your immediate needs.

[ViolettVol]

Thanks Mr Happy, I am defineitly going to ty the supplement and withdraw zoloft, see what happens.  Today I've been a very bad girl and did all sorts of things to make my mental pain go away. I took like two zolpidems (defnietly have developed tolerance to that after a week or so so the smaller dose did not work), took on medazepam and two clorazepats (tranxenes) plus two doxepins. The traxenes and medazepam have slow release periods so i hope they will allow me to awake up calmer and the rest is just to make me feel less sad, let me go to sleep. It might be a downward spiral, medicating this much has never been good. But then again my life is a nightmare most of the time so who cares anymore...I want to get better, but nothing seems to work for good and these thoughts just rush through my head and I keep waking up shaking and my life passes me by. It's not my friggin life!!!

Edited by ViolettVol, 16 October 2011 - 08:48 PM.

[MrHappy]

Damn. That could make it a bad crash for you the next few days, though..

Regarding my original suggestion of alpha-gpc, uridine and DHA - I still believe that is the best longterm approach. It basically repairs and replaces the neurons responsible for making you happy, rather than just artificially boosting seratonin levels, masking the problem and creating tolerance issues. I created an earlier thread with lots of information. Also google 'uridine depression'.

Edited by MrHappy, 17 October 2011 - 01:32 AM.

[Logan]

Guys, your suggestions will not hold a candle to Zoloft.

Violette, don't get off Zoloft for the moment. You say you were never yourself after Zoloft, do you think you ever really knew what "yourself" was?

Do some hard work in psychotherapy, it will take you a long way.  It sounds like you desperately need some self esteem building.  Try to find a good therapist, there is one out there

Maybe consider adding a small dose of lithium to your regimen.

What dose of Zoloft are you taking?

[nupi]

If you feel shitty on Zoloft, then maybe its just not the right antidepressant or the right dose... I would talk about that with a psychiatrist, potentially switching to another SSRI or augmenting it Wellbutrin or Effexor. I am not sure just how much supplements really do... Out of the ones I have tried, I can really only notice Ashwaghanda which definitely calms me down but it also seems to blow my motivation to do anything to pieces - or maybe that's just the depression itself.

I know I felt shitty on Wellbutrin for the past couple of weeks but there is a very sound reason for that and I am almost certainl that it would be much much worse without it, in fact, I can somehow "feel" the bad feelings below it, but they dont bother me all that much, weird thing to describe, really.

[Logan]

You can still take the suggested supplements along with Zoloft.  I think uridine and fish oil are good ideas, not the choline though-just eat pasture fed eggs.

Nortriptyline is a possibility in combination with Zoloft, if you don't think raising Zoloft will help or you have already done this.  Wellbutrin is another augmenting option as mentioned above.  A good open-minded and smart psychiatrist will go with these options, even the nortriptyline.

[MrHappy]

Morgan, can you elaborate - I've seen a lot of studies discussing using other SSRIs to get off Zoloft, as well as many, many personal accounts, including 2 involving my wife and my ex-gf that show OCD and anxiety when withdrawing from Zoloft. In the OP's case, because she has already withdrawn previously, if she has gone back on at the same dose, it's likely to be less effective, meaning she either needs a higher dose, or to repair the tolerance and side effects - which 500mg of uridine per day has been shown to do successfully after 10 days.

What is the benefit of just treating the symptoms, when you can treat the cause?

[nupi]

Where can I get Uridine? Cant find it on iHerb....

[MrHappy]

$50 for 25g on ebay. ditto alpha-gpc

Have a read through this thread for some useful research papers, patents and articles -

http://www.longecity...iew__getnewpost

[nupi]

This is maybe slightly offtopic, but is anything aside benzos (which is sort of like using a bazooka on what should be a mouse but feels like freaking elephant) useful against self-inflicted heartache?

MrHappy: there is no way in hell I will buy supplements on ebay of all places...

Edited by nupi, 17 October 2011 - 01:15 PM.

[MrHappy]

It's from http://www.superiornutraceuticals.com and http://www.nootrabiolabs.com .. Just happens to be more convenient for me to get it via ebay.

[MrHappy]

Oh and self-inflicted heartache.. You are looking to buffer your emotions for a while to work through the issue, or?

100-200mg of 5-HTP would make you happier, but it's a crutch, like SSRIs.

1mg of methylene blue x 3 daily will deaden your emotions after a day or so. I had tolerance issues after a few weeks, so tapering off is probably required.

Deprenyl is similar, but you'll fail drug tests on it.

Really though, at the end of the day I suggest you really need an outlet to share your emotions and forgive yourself. It's a slippery slope using meds if your brain is otherwise healthy.

You're allowed to feel sad. It's OK! It's healthy! You need to let yourself be human and breathe for a while. Talk to people, friends and random internet strangers .. You'll feel better when you're ready.

[devinthayer]

MorganM, on 17 October 2011 - 05:16 AM, said:

You can still take the suggested supplements along with Zoloft.  I think uridine and fish oil are good ideas, not the choline though-just eat pasture fed eggs.

Nortriptyline is a possibility in combination with Zoloft, if you don't think raising Zoloft will help or you have already done this.  Wellbutrin is another augmenting option as mentioned above.  A good open-minded and smart psychiatrist will go with these options, even the nortriptyline.

Nortriptyline just made me really lethargic and tired.  It was definitely mood-blunting, so if that is the effect you are looking for, then go for it.  I have been experiencing a rebound from Nortriptyline... it's like my ADHD went into hyperactive hyper drive.  Feel like I have a coffee I.V. right now.

It calmed me down, but it did not affect concentration and had a slight negative effect on motivation (due to a drop in energy levels).  However, it did improve my memory of conversations since my mind wouldn't switch off before I made a memory, if that makes any sense.  It's mainly used for ADHD with hyperactivity to treat hyperactivity, and that part of my ADHD was completely cured... not the inattentive stuff, though.

...

On a more positive note, eggs as well as lecithin are a great way to get your head working right.  Fish oil is up there, too.  They are great for your liver, digestive system, heart, myelin integrity, immune system, and of course mental energy.

Welbutrin is a good pick-me-up for some people.  My Psychiatrist told me she prescribes it to old people who need a little more pep.  I thought that was cute... old people skipping through the fields high on Welbutrin.  My friends love it, tell me it's like sipping on coffee all day long.

Edited by devinthayer, 17 October 2011 - 02:47 PM.

[MrHappy]

Here's an odd question - am I unusual in that I tolerate a-gpc a lot better than normal lethicin? I find it much more effective and I don't feel like my head has swollen..

[nupi]

devinthayer, on 17 October 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Welbutrin is a good pick-me-up for some people.  My Psychiatrist told me she prescribes it to old people who need a little more pep.  I thought that was cute... old people skipping through the fields high on Welbutrin.  My friends love it, tell me it's like sipping on coffee all day long.

I had that for the first few weeks, after which I did not really felt all that energized but it definitely takes the edge of depression and then some. And unlike the nasty side effects I had with Effexor, the only side effect I have is constipation and loss of appetite (which, I guess, puts me into CR territory now but without any real cravings). I can see how it would help people stop smoking (I never smoked regularly, but these days it just does not seem interesting) and now I am trying to see if I can kick my love (potentially a little more than tha) for beer and wine while I am at it - alcohol is making me feel increasingly depressed the next morning...

One interesting point is that switching doses can give immediate results: going from 150 to 300mg gives it a definite boost and can sometimes catapult me into quite hyper territory. It may be placebo, but personally I believe that this is related to the dopaminergic effects of Wellbutrin - I am not going to try, but I feel there might potential for recreational use, too. OTOH, MPH would be a much more obvious choice for people looking into that...

[ViolettVol]

PEOPLE - IN NEED OF SERIOUS ADVICE HERE.

As I wrote earlier, my anxiety and OCD was so bad I took zolpidem for some days and developed tolerance.So the day before yesterday I took those few benzos in the evening. Next day I took nothing but my usual dose of zoloft.

I felt awful without the zolpidems and today too - my anxiety and OCD are worse than before almost not allowing me to function. It must be withdrawal - I read it makes anxiety worse. I think I need to taper off zolpidem/ benzos instead of going cold turkey cause im afraid I'll land in looney bin. Cannot go to a psychiatrist right now. However, till tomorrow I only have some xanax xr - does it work instantly and what is the smallest dose I need to get throgh the day? , I'm scared shitless of meds now, but know I must get off them reasonably. I also know now that my anxiety triggered the ocd and then they trigger each other, my ocd has only been hiding, sneaking into my behavior for years. Definietly therapy as soon as I can. Just please advise me how to get through the next few days -  taper off the zolpidem slowly and manage the ocd.

[MrHappy]

Correct. Under no circumstances go cold turkey withdrawing from benzos or SSRIs - you'll feel like ending yourself. But seriously, this cocktail you are self-medicating with could be dangerous. Try to take it easy on yourself.

I had a good look at the EFT links and I think you'd really benefit from trying it: http://www.eft-alive...-to-do-EFT.html
I tried it out and I was surprised how effective it is at helping you focus on, then release and forgive yourself for anything that's happened in the past. Amazing.

Whatever you took in addition to your Zoloft yesterday, slowly taper off them. In the meantime, increase your Zoloft dosage a little, perhaps 10-25%. Don't add anything else new into the mix, just simplify back to Zoloft. Try EFT. Take it slowly. That should get you settled back in.

Once you've settled back into pseudo-normality, then you can look at moving forward slowly from there with the other nootropics. Right now you have too much on your plate to make any rapid changes. Let just get back to 'normal' for now.

Edited by MrHappy, 18 October 2011 - 09:37 AM.

[devinthayer]

NO!  Don't go cold turkey on Benzo's or SSRI's.  Taper for at least a few days.  Scull Cap and Valerian root will help with withdrawals with benzos.  Bacopa (and possibly Catuaba) will help with SSRI withdrawals.  If you buy powdered form (like from BAC or ebay or Amazon), you can make your own dose.

[JChief]

I tried Aniracetam for the first time after being a long time Piracetam user. Long story short: I do not see the added benefit of spending extra money and doing no better of a job than the original (and cheaper) piracetam. Plain ol piracetam for me! 2.4g 3 times per day. With the aniracetam I was taking 750mg - 1g twice per day. The other thing is the effects wear off much sooner since the half life is shorter. Piracetam, to me, is the best value. A youtube poster pretty much said those same things. Sure, you need to take more, but come on.. it's $80 or less for a KILO.

Aniracetam seemed to help a bit more in the focus arena.. I didn't notice the same color vividness or "music sounds better" thoughts I had with piracetam. So even the experience is better with piracetam. Piracetam has anti-anxiety benefits. As far as anxiety goes.. Rosavin (top Rhodiola brand and highly studied) cured my panic attacks and piracetam cured the overall anxiousness and worry I used to deal with. Racetams do NOT help me with OCD though.. perhaps it makes it a bit worse? But oh well. I still love piracetam!

Also, I have been interested in Noopept.

[JChief]

Rhodiola helped me ditch the benzos... which are highly habit forming, make the brain foggy, and withdrawls are similar to actual anxiety lol. So glad I'm done with that crap.

[JChief]

MrHappy, on 17 October 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

Here's an odd question - am I unusual in that I tolerate a-gpc a lot better than normal lethicin? I find it much more effective and I don't feel like my head has swollen..

I heard awhile back that Alpha GPC was just an overpriced form of choline. Well after I bought a good brand of Alpha GPC I can say that it definitely has a nootropic properties. I feel more calm in the head and I don't know how to explain it. No other form of choline I've tried (choline citrate etc) had such an effect. Even though it's expensive I really like Alpha GPC and goes perfect with racetams to boot. I do not believe choline is required by any means but I still do so since it has its own benefits that I've noticed.

[JChief]

SSRIs (Prozac and Effexor XR are ones I've been prescribed) made me feel fairly good but for some reason would make me lose my temper easily when things upset me. It's like I was possibly manic? Not to mention the sexual side effects which was horrible!!! I found out that serotonin had little to do with why I was depressed. I had a good stint with Wellbutrin until I discovered that athletic activity made me feel eventually like I was going to pass out and die. It was very odd. But reproduced like clockwork. I stopped it and I could run around all day and not feel like my heart was going to explode/feel nausea. Over time.. racetams provide all the antidepressant activity I need. It's mild but quite effective. I just feel normal. That's the thing.. over time you feel like the SSRIs etc should make you FEEL a certain way.. like GOOD. And to some extent this was true. But it wasn't normal and I'd venture to guess that lots of forms of depression are not from a lack of serotonin only... btw I've experimented a lot and have conviced doctors to give me all sorts of different drugs.. Adderall, Xanax/Klonopin, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Lithium for possible bipolar .. you name it. It's all hogwash.. you don't need meds. You have to first get over your dependence on them and find somewhat safer alternative with fewer side effects if you can. Racetams, herbs like Rhodiola and Tongkat Ali, and other supplements (like sulbutiamine) have given me considerable benefit and, in my opinion, are less harmful that than what the doctors are willing to offer. Your mileage may vary.

[ViolettVol]

So I took that small dose of xanax xr yesterday to calm the ocd -stirring anxity and at first i thought it wasnt working, but because its extended release it worked gradually and made me feel calmer and kept me relatively calm throughout the day. no euphoria, i could just finally feel normal - not afraid  that everything brings bad luck (like I have with ocd) - I could calm those thoughts and perform my task, did not get any high offf it as some people reportedly do. nor do i want to. slept slightly better too. After one xanax, i dont think i need a withdrawal period, so not tapering that. today i took only zoloft and zolpidem for calmness - at a slightly lower dose than the initial biggest dose that i took so now im goint to taper it - question is, by how much? I think I need to do it very slowly, like shaving bits of the pills off because I read about zolpidem and to those sensitive to its withdrawal, its actually quite tricky to get off and not go crazy. The high zolpidem gives one initially can get one immediately hooked, then you have tolerance and need more e\and more and more. nope, not gonna be like that. I want to withdraw carefully and then start thinking what to do with the zoloft, which apparently is very helpful for ocd but in my\uch higher doeses than i was taken. My doc told me to take two zolofts for now and then taper. so first i taper the zolpidem, then the zoloft. Will taking lots of magnesium help keep me from anxiety - i have a slight deficiency. Then I might try and slowly incorporate some of the supps you recommended.

[ViolettVol]

MrHappy, on 18 October 2011 - 09:36 AM, said:

Correct. Under no circumstances go cold turkey withdrawing from benzos or SSRIs - you'll feel like ending yourself. But seriously, this cocktail you are self-medicating with could be dangerous. Try to take it easy on yourself.

I had a good look at the EFT links and I think you'd really benefit from trying it: http://www.eft-alive...-to-do-EFT.html
I tried it out and I was surprised how effective it is at helping you focus on, then release and forgive yourself for anything that's happened in the past. Amazing.

Whatever you took in addition to your Zoloft yesterday, slowly taper off them. In the meantime, increase your Zoloft dosage a little, perhaps 10-25%. Don't add anything else new into the mix, just simplify back to Zoloft. Try EFT. Take it slowly. That should get you settled back in.

Once you've settled back into pseudo-normality, then you can look at moving forward slowly from there with the other nootropics. Right now you have too much on your plate to make any rapid changes. Let just get back to 'normal' for now.

As for the EFT - thanks for the link, I think it can help me overcome some stress due to past mistakes i regret or things about myself i dont accept now, but i think with ocd i have to go for a cognitive-behavioral therapy, because my ocd is very complex and deals with lots of irrational thoughts.
Defnietly need lots of relaxing techniques though. I wanna try lots, check which works best for me

[hippocampus]

ViolettVol, on 19 October 2011 - 12:36 PM, said:

So I took that small dose of xanax xr yesterday to calm the ocd -stirring anxity and at first i thought it wasnt working, but because its extended release it worked gradually and made me feel calmer and kept me relatively calm throughout the day. no euphoria, i could just finally feel normal - not afraid  that everything brings bad luck (like I have with ocd) - I could calm those thoughts and perform my task, did not get any high offf it as some people reportedly do. nor do i want to. slept slightly better too. After one xanax, i dont think i need a withdrawal period, so not tapering that. today i took only zoloft and zolpidem for calmness - at a slightly lower dose than the initial biggest dose that i took so now im goint to taper it - question is, by how much? I think I need to do it very slowly, like shaving bits of the pills off because I read about zolpidem and to those sensitive to its withdrawal, its actually quite tricky to get off and not go crazy. The high zolpidem gives one initially can get one immediately hooked, then you have tolerance and need more e\and more and more. nope, not gonna be like that. I want to withdraw carefully and then start thinking what to do with the zoloft, which apparently is very helpful for ocd but in my\uch higher doeses than i was taken. My doc told me to take two zolofts for now and then taper. so first i taper the zolpidem, then the zoloft. Will taking lots of magnesium help keep me from anxiety - i have a slight deficiency. Then I might try and slowly incorporate some of the supps you recommended.

some forms of magnesium can cause diarrhea if taken in large amounts. it's best to supplement a little of everything you need so that you don't make any imbalances.
what about zinc?
also milk thistle have been shown to be as effective as prozac in one prospective study - even if it may not work for you it's good for you liver since you've been taking lots of meds.

[Logan]

MrHappy, on 17 October 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

Morgan, can you elaborate - I've seen a lot of studies discussing using other SSRIs to get off Zoloft, as well as many, many personal accounts, including 2 involving my wife and my ex-gf that show OCD and anxiety when withdrawing from Zoloft. In the OP's case, because she has already withdrawn previously, if she has gone back on at the same dose, it's likely to be less effective, meaning she either needs a higher dose, or to repair the tolerance and side effects - which 500mg of uridine per day has been shown to do successfully after 10 days.

What is the benefit of just treating the symptoms, when you can treat the cause?

I'm all for therapy, I may become a therapist one day myself.  Being on medication does not prevent you from healing, and in some cases it helps someone get through therapy more productively.

You do realize we just don't have the time to wait 5 years to hopefully resolve everything that ails us.  We need to get to living, and enjoying life.

Medications can be protective against the damage that chronic depression and anxiety can inflict.

You think taking uridine and the other supplements are treating the cause??? Are you serious?  Dude, you've got to be young and inexperienced, with very little knowledge of the biopsychosocial dynamic that contributes to mental illness.

Are you really Mr. Happy???  I bet there is sadness within you that lingers that you are not aware of.  Spend 6 months to a year in therapy with someone that knows what they are doing and take it seriously.  You will find out there is more going on inside you than you ever imagined.