64 replies to this topic

[AgeVivo]

bcelliott, on 07 August 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

From a toxicity standpoint, no, I don't think it makes a difference.  But some of the stuff left over is probably polymerized C60 (dimers, epoxides, etc.) and as such, is less useful to the body than is the dissolved fullerene.  But I don't think it will hurt you at all.

Authors of the C60oo paper told me the same thing about C60oo. They also told me it is what they *think* of course.

Edited by AgeVivo, 07 August 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[smithx]

bcelliott: Do you think the sonication method would work if, rather than toluene/fullerene solution, olive oil/fullerene solution was used?

[bcelliott]

mpe, on 15 July 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

After reading this thread I wonder if sonification would be better than stirring or shaking to dissolve the c60 into olive oil. Any ideas?

Sonication does solubilize the fullerene faster in olive oil.  At least, a low energy bath sonicator does very well.  These are relatively inexpensive 2nd hand.

[bcelliott]

smithx, on 07 August 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

bcelliott: Do you think the sonication method would work if, rather than toluene/fullerene solution, olive oil/fullerene solution was used?

This is a brilliant idea, or so I though as well several weeks back.  Unfortunately, olive oil and water that are sonicated together form a long-lived emulsion that looks exactly like milk.  My emulsion didn't separate back into its components for a week, and when it did, no yellow color and no fullerenes remained in the aqueous portion.  In addition, the remaining separated C60-OO didn't smell anything like olive oil any more, so I threw it out.  Perhaps I should have done more tests on the C60-OO before and after, but I didn't think about it at the time.

One major caveat...this was done using a higher energy horn sonicator.  Perhaps a small amount could be tested using a lower energy bath.  It might give better results, but it might not, since I would have expected at least a little yellow color in the aqueous part.  

If someone could succeed in doing this with OO, it would be amazing.

[bcelliott]

AgeVivo, on 07 August 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

bcelliott, on 07 August 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

From a toxicity standpoint, no, I don't think it makes a difference.  But some of the stuff left over is probably polymerized C60 (dimers, epoxides, etc.) and as such, is less useful to the body than is the dissolved fullerene.  But I don't think it will hurt you at all.

Authors of the C60oo paper told me the same thing about C60oo. They also told me it is what they *think* of course.

Of course, I should hide behind my own ignorance--I'm willing to admit how much I don't know, especially about in vivo effects.  But I have analyzed samples of C60 that have been exposed to light and air, and they always contained dimers and epoxides, whereas samples that had been carefully stored and handled didn't show the spectroscopic signatures other than the pristine molecules.. So that's my guess.

[niner]

Hi bcelliott, thanks for posting!  It's great to have someone with your expertise on board.  What are your thoughts about the structure of the presumed C60 olive oil adduct?  Olive oil is about 8% polyunsaturates, which might lead to a Diels-Alder coupling with C60, and an epoxide-mediated coupling is another thing that has been suggested as a way that C60 might react with saturated fatty acids.   Franco Cataldo has discussed the spectrosopic evidence that C60 forms a compound with vegetable oils (refs are around here somewhere, I can find them if you'd like to take a look), but I don't think anyone has ever nailed down the structures.  (I'm assuming more than one structure, given the mixed fatty acid composition of vegetable oils.)

[bcelliott]

niner, on 08 August 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Hi bcelliott, thanks for posting!  It's great to have someone with your expertise on board.  What are your thoughts about the structure of the presumed C60 olive oil adduct?  Olive oil is about 8% polyunsaturates, which might lead to a Diels-Alder coupling with C60, and an epoxide-mediated coupling is another thing that has been suggested as a way that C60 might react with saturated fatty acids.   Franco Cataldo has discussed the spectrosopic evidence that C60 forms a compound with vegetable oils (refs are around here somewhere, I can find them if you'd like to take a look), but I don't think anyone has ever nailed down the structures.  (I'm assuming more than one structure, given the mixed fatty acid composition of vegetable oils.)

I think several reactions are possible, depending upon oil temperature, level of oxygen exposure, and amount of light.  Typical 1,2 addition products as well as Diels-Alder and multiple radical additions are certainly possible.

Out of curiosity, I looked for a charge transfer peak around 450 in the visible absorption spectrum of my homemade C60-OO, and found a very weak peak there.  Mine was made by room temperature stirring in the dark with minimal oxygen, so I wouldn't expect a large yield of addition products under those conditions, but these products should increase with increased heat and oxygen.  I would also expect that a clear bottle of C60-OO that has a violet color would gradually gain a reddish/brown tint over time if left exposed, since the majority of functionalized C60 compounds have a reddish color in solution.

Nailing down the identity of the addition compounds would be a bear of a problem--one I wouldn't enjoy!  You'd have to chromatographically separate the products out of the oil into something like toluene, then collect enough to examine via NMR, mass spec, and electrochemistry.  As you'll probably get a mixture of mono-, bis-, and higher poly-adducts of differing types having varying regiochemistry on the C60 cage, this would end up being an expensive, time-consuming project with little interest to most people.  Sounds like the perfect grad student research project!

[rwac]

bcelliott, on 08 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Nailing down the identity of the addition compounds would be a bear of a problem--one I wouldn't enjoy!  You'd have to chromatographically separate the products out of the oil into something like toluene, then collect enough to examine via NMR, mass spec, and electrochemistry.  As you'll probably get a mixture of mono-, bis-, and higher poly-adducts of differing types having varying regiochemistry on the C60 cage, this would end up being an expensive, time-consuming project with little interest to most people.  Sounds like the perfect grad student research project!

Speaking of identifying compounds, do you have any idea what the impurities in commercial C60 would be. Sure, it may be 99.95%, but im wondering if the other 0.05% might be nasty, think benzene or some such nasty carcinogen.

[bcelliott]

rwac, on 08 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

bcelliott, on 08 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Nailing down the identity of the addition compounds would be a bear of a problem--one I wouldn't enjoy!  You'd have to chromatographically separate the products out of the oil into something like toluene, then collect enough to examine via NMR, mass spec, and electrochemistry.  As you'll probably get a mixture of mono-, bis-, and higher poly-adducts of differing types having varying regiochemistry on the C60 cage, this would end up being an expensive, time-consuming project with little interest to most people.  Sounds like the perfect grad student research project!

Speaking of identifying compounds, do you have any idea what the impurities in commercial C60 would be. Sure, it may be 99.95%, but im wondering if the other 0.05% might be nasty, think benzene or some such nasty carcinogen.

A portion of it would be C70 that was not fully chromatographically separated, but probably up to half of the 0.05% is probably the extraction solvent--in most cases toluene--which co-crystallizes with the C60.

[niner]

bcelliott, on 08 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think several reactions are possible, depending upon oil temperature, level of oxygen exposure, and amount of light.  Typical 1,2 addition products as well as Diels-Alder and multiple radical additions are certainly possible.

Out of curiosity, I looked for a charge transfer peak around 450 in the visible absorption spectrum of my homemade C60-OO, and found a very weak peak there.  Mine was made by room temperature stirring in the dark with minimal oxygen, so I wouldn't expect a large yield of addition products under those conditions, but these products should increase with increased heat and oxygen.  I would also expect that a clear bottle of C60-OO that has a violet color would gradually gain a reddish/brown tint over time if left exposed, since the majority of functionalized C60 compounds have a reddish color in solution.

Nailing down the identity of the addition compounds would be a bear of a problem--one I wouldn't enjoy!  You'd have to chromatographically separate the products out of the oil into something like toluene, then collect enough to examine via NMR, mass spec, and electrochemistry.  As you'll probably get a mixture of mono-, bis-, and higher poly-adducts of differing types having varying regiochemistry on the C60 cage, this would end up being an expensive, time-consuming project with little interest to most people.  Sounds like the perfect grad student research project!

Thanks for those insights.  Did your C60-OO have a noticeable reddish color?  I suppose not too much given the weak absorbance in the blue-violet.   Most people here are seeing a deep red after extended stirring at room temp or in some cases, a little higher.  I think that a lot of people have stirred in open beakers or something similar, so there was O2 available.   There's also been some experimentation with mostly-saturated coconut oil and with highly unsaturated fish oil.   I was wondering if we were getting any bis-adducts.   A bis-adduct that was more or less "para" on the C60 might have a significant energetic edge in terms of staying in the membrane if the carboxylates were at the right distance to be on opposite sides of the membrane.  The varied regiochemistry would complicate things, but mass spec might be able to cleanly tell us if we were getting mono, bis, tris etc adducts.   I'm presuming that the triglycerides would be hydrolyzed by lipases in vivo, and that the active species would be the free fatty acid adduct.

One way to simplify the structural analysis a bit would be to react C60 with pure sample of discreet fatty acids, like pure oleic acid, for example.   I don't know if you've seen that Luna patent that turnbuckle posted, but the structures that I'm imagining for the adducts have a lot in common with the compounds for which Luna is claiming hair growth, CVD applications, and the like.

[bcelliott]

niner, on 08 August 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

bcelliott, on 08 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think several reactions are possible, depending upon oil temperature, level of oxygen exposure, and amount of light.  Typical 1,2 addition products as well as Diels-Alder and multiple radical additions are certainly possible.

Out of curiosity, I looked for a charge transfer peak around 450 in the visible absorption spectrum of my homemade C60-OO, and found a very weak peak there.  Mine was made by room temperature stirring in the dark with minimal oxygen, so I wouldn't expect a large yield of addition products under those conditions, but these products should increase with increased heat and oxygen.  I would also expect that a clear bottle of C60-OO that has a violet color would gradually gain a reddish/brown tint over time if left exposed, since the majority of functionalized C60 compounds have a reddish color in solution.

Nailing down the identity of the addition compounds would be a bear of a problem--one I wouldn't enjoy!  You'd have to chromatographically separate the products out of the oil into something like toluene, then collect enough to examine via NMR, mass spec, and electrochemistry.  As you'll probably get a mixture of mono-, bis-, and higher poly-adducts of differing types having varying regiochemistry on the C60 cage, this would end up being an expensive, time-consuming project with little interest to most people.  Sounds like the perfect grad student research project!

Thanks for those insights.  Did your C60-OO have a noticeable reddish color?  I suppose not too much given the weak absorbance in the blue-violet.   Most people here are seeing a deep red after extended stirring at room temp or in some cases, a little higher.  I think that a lot of people have stirred in open beakers or something similar, so there was O2 available.   There's also been some experimentation with mostly-saturated coconut oil and with highly unsaturated fish oil.   I was wondering if we were getting any bis-adducts.   A bis-adduct that was more or less "para" on the C60 might have a significant energetic edge in terms of staying in the membrane if the carboxylates were at the right distance to be on opposite sides of the membrane.  The varied regiochemistry would complicate things, but mass spec might be able to cleanly tell us if we were getting mono, bis, tris etc adducts.   I'm presuming that the triglycerides would be hydrolyzed by lipases in vivo, and that the active species would be the free fatty acid adduct.

One way to simplify the structural analysis a bit would be to react C60 with pure sample of discreet fatty acids, like pure oleic acid, for example.   I don't know if you've seen that Luna patent that turnbuckle posted, but the structures that I'm imagining for the adducts have a lot in common with the compounds for which Luna is claiming hair growth, CVD applications, and the like.

In addition to mixing conditions, the color depends a great deal on the chemical composition of the oil that you're using, which would suggest that the more red, the greater the relative concentration of substituted C60 addition products in the solution.

I like your idea about reacting C60 in pure fatty acids...this would simplify analysis greatly.  I think it's probable that we're getting bis-adducts, though generally their relative abundance is determined by reaction conditions and time.  Trans-1 bis-adducts' (what you've called "para") relative abundance is pretty small.  A co-worker of mine spent the bulk of her Ph.D. research synthesizing and separating the trans-1 isomer for specific further uses.  If memory serves, analysis revealed that the relative abundance of this product was somewhere around 2-4% of the entire substituted C60 yield.  Bis-adducts that are not symmetric across the fullerene cage are slightly more abundant.

I worked with Luna quite a bit during my grad research.  I don't believe they specified isomerically pure bis-malonate adducts with C60 and C70 in that patent you referred to, though I just skimmed it and might have missed it.  They sure have filed a lot of speculative patents, though!

From the positive results that some people are seeing, even if we don't know at this point whether the prisitine fullerene or one or more of the adducts is the agent responsible for the good effects, it's nice to know that the fullerene-OO generally is of benefit even without separating the components.  I've had enough of doing that in years past, so I'll leave it to others in this case!

[Freebytes]

I wanted to comment on the calculations of Turnbuckle.

Quote

10E12 cells in the human body and 1000 mitochondria/cell = 1.0E16 mitochondria
20 mg C60 = .00003 mole = 1.7E19 molecules
Which is 1,700 C60 molecules/mitochondria

The molecular weight of C60 is Carbon * 60 which is 720g/mol.  If there is 20mg, the math should be 20mg * (1g/1000mg) * (1mol/720g) = 2.78*10^-5 moles * 6.022 * 10^23 = 1.67 * 10^19 molecules.  So, his calculations for the number of molecules per 20mg is correct.  Just in case someone questions his calculations, I wanted to let you know that I double checked it for the number of molecules.

If there are actually 10^12 human cells in our bodies (which this seem to be a bit high) and 1000 mitochondria per cell, there would be 10^12 * 1000 = 1.0E15 mitochondria not 1.0E16.  Which means (1.67 * 10^19) / 1.0E15.  Therefore, I show this as 16,700 molecules per mitochondria which is even higher than his amount.  My math may be off, though.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Nonetheless, it even helps strengthen his point.

[niner]

Freebytes, on 18 October 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

I wanted to comment on the calculations of Turnbuckle.

Quote

10E12 cells in the human body and 1000 mitochondria/cell = 1.0E16 mitochondria
20 mg C60 = .00003 mole = 1.7E19 molecules
Which is 1,700 C60 molecules/mitochondria

The molecular weight of C60 is Carbon * 60 which is 720g/mol.  If there is 20mg, the math should be 20mg * (1g/1000mg) * (1mol/720g) = 2.78*10^-5 moles * 6.022 * 10^23 = 1.67 * 10^19 molecules.  So, his calculations for the number of molecules per 20mg is correct.  Just in case someone questions his calculations, I wanted to let you know that I double checked it for the number of molecules.

If there are actually 10^12 human cells in our bodies (which this seem to be a bit high) and 1000 mitochondria per cell, there would be 10^12 * 1000 = 1.0E15 mitochondria not 1.0E16.  Which means (1.67 * 10^19) / 1.0E15.  Therefore, I show this as 16,700 molecules per mitochondria which is even higher than his amount.  My math may be off, though.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Nonetheless, it even helps strengthen his point.

Turnbuckle wrote '10E12', which is open to interpretation.  Did he really mean "ten to the twelfth power", or is it a corrupted version of scientific notation that should translate to "ten times ten to the twelfth"?  If you enter 10E12 in a calculator or computer program, it will be interpreted as "ten to the thirteenth".  That's because in proper scientific notation, the mantissa is expected to be in the form x.xxx, with only one digit in front of the decimal point, while "E" is interpreted as "times ten to the".  So that's probably the source of the factor of ten discrepancy.  A problem with any calculation like this is the various assumptions, like the number of human cells and the number of mitochondria per cell.  An even bigger problem is that there's no consideration of the amount of C60 that's excreted and all the other bodily compartments that C60 might partition into, like adipose tissue, non-mitochondrial membranes (including bacteria), or protein binding.  It thus represents an upper limit that is highly unlikely to ever be reached.  This can still be useful, as long as we bear in mind that it's both a rough approximation and an upper limit.

[Freebytes]

Oh, you are correct.  He meant "ten times ten to the twelfth."  I did not realize it worked that way on a calculator!  I tried it myself, and you are correct.  He did mean it that way it seems as being 10*10^13 so his math is spot on.  I simply interpreted it wrong.  The number of cells mentioned seems high, though.  Perhaps that would be all cells and not simply human cells.  I found an estimation online that said it was merely 75 trillion, but the numbers vary wildly as there is no easy way to estimate such a large number of human cells in the body.  (Plus, I am sure the mass of a person can be a big factor as well.)

See?  This is why I always lurk on these forums and never reply!

By the way, nice to meet you.  I have been browsing the Longecity forums for years now (around the time the Astragaloside IV entry was posted).  One of the members inspired me to actually register recently, though, to talk to him in the private messages.  (I may have registered in the past and simply had my account deleted for inactivity, though.  I cannot remember that far back.)  I am going to try to be more active now and give some input.

Edited by Freebytes, 19 October 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Andey]

I have some email conversation last days with GVA http://www.longecity...user/25068-gva/, and discovered that he is Grigoriy  Andrievsky PhD, Science director of http://www.ipacom.com already mentioned in this thread.
I am not at any kind affiliated with Grigoriy or Ipacom, but it looks for me that this is really interesting information to share )
He and his group study fullerenes for 18 years now and as you can see on site have huge amount of publications on this matter

http://www.ipacom.co...ical-properties

Also as already mentioned in this topic he is first to get C60 supplement approval from authorities. Its Ukraine of course, not FDA )), but drugs administration is also very strict in our country.

I think his potential contribution to the community hardly can be overestimated )

He share some thoughts with me and the main point: He think that community take a wrong aprouch by trying to exactly replicate Baati experiments with oil on ourself not having any scientifical data or even theory about how its works in human body.

He and his group study fullerenes for 18 years now and he insist that there is nothing about olive oil in C60 effects. Grigoriy think that C60oo didnt survive digesting, and positives you get  must be attributed to some very little amount of hydrated C60 that forms spontaniously in body. He think that it works but not in effective way and total bioavailability of C60 is very poor comparatevly with direct dosing of hydrated C60.

For comparison - concentration for hydrated C60 is 0.0002mg in 100ml of water. Daily dose starts from 150ml and down to 50ml during course. Course (i dont shure if it correct word) is lasts for 2.5-3 weeks with total intake about 1.5 liter of C60 water. Price for supplement for hole course is about $10...total )) Early in this thread was been concluded that the price is too expensive looking really on concentrated solution for manufacturing or science purposes. The effective dosage for a person is comletely not in range of C60oo dosage. Also concentrated dosage is usable to ship overseas - with some instructions it can be dissolved with additional water.

As I remember, additional usefull info is that C60 is completely safe - its not more toxic than pure carbon or ... sand ) That is also was proven by his study.


You can ask GVA directly but, please, mention that he is little bit (a lot))) struggling with English so it would be clever to use simple English that can be processed by google translate or something like that )

[joseph583984]

I can see how an elderly person with a poorly functioning liver and gallbladder would benefit from anything that bypasses the need for bile. Am I to assume that hydrated fullerene could be made using the same liposomal formula involving an ultrasonic cleaner, distilled water and lecithin as the main ingredients. Or am I missing something here?

[zen]

Andey, on 19 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I have some email conversation last days with GVA http://www.longecity...user/25068-gva/, and discovered that he is Grigoriy  Andrievsky PhD, Science director of http://www.ipacom.com already mentioned in this thread.
I am not at any kind affiliated with Grigoriy or Ipacom, but it looks for me that this is really interesting information to share )
He and his group study fullerenes for 18 years now and as you can see on site have huge amount of publications on this matter

http://www.ipacom.co...ical-properties

Also as already mentioned in this topic he is first to get C60 supplement approval from authorities. Its Ukraine of course, not FDA )), but drugs administration is also very strict in our country.

I think his potential contribution to the community hardly can be overestimated )

He share some thoughts with me and the main point: He think that community take a wrong aprouch by trying to exactly replicate Baati experiments with oil on ourself not having any scientifical data or even theory about how its works in human body.

He and his group study fullerenes for 18 years now and he insist that there is nothing about olive oil in C60 effects. Grigoriy think that C60oo didnt survive digesting, and positives you get  must be attributed to some very little amount of hydrated C60 that forms spontaniously in body. He think that it works but not in effective way and total bioavailability of C60 is very poor comparatevly with direct dosing of hydrated C60.

For comparison - concentration for hydrated C60 is 0.0002mg in 100ml of water. Daily dose starts from 150ml and down to 50ml during course. Course (i dont shure if it correct word) is lasts for 2.5-3 weeks with total intake about 1.5 liter of C60 water. Price for supplement for hole course is about $10...total )) Early in this thread was been concluded that the price is too expensive looking really on concentrated solution for manufacturing or science purposes. The effective dosage for a person is comletely not in range of C60oo dosage. Also concentrated dosage is usable to ship overseas - with some instructions it can be dissolved with additional water.

As I remember, additional usefull info is that C60 is completely safe - its not more toxic than pure carbon or ... sand ) That is also was proven by his study.


You can ask GVA directly but, please, mention that he is little bit (a lot))) struggling with English so it would be clever to use simple English that can be processed by google translate or something like that )

Hi Andey,

What I would like to know is if they published any longevity animal studies during these 18 years with hydrated C60 and, if yes, how their results compare with what Baati group reported?

Edited by zen, 20 October 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[swevens]

zen, it's not quite what you're looking for, but here's a study that showed a 22% increase in the lifespan of mice with transplanted tumors following a single, low-dose injection of C60 in an aqueous solution: Pristine C(60) fullerenes inhibit the rate of tumor growth and metastasis.

[Andey]

zen, on 20 October 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

Andey, on 19 October 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Hi Andey,

What I would like to know is if they published any longevity animal studies during these 18 years with hydrated C60 and, if yes, how their results compare with what Baati group reported?

Hi Zen )

I asked Grigoriy, and answer is no. If I understand him well they do kind of pilot experiment on old mices and get some good results but that was made not for publication purposes and not truly scientificaly representative.  Also they dont have needed infrastructure for animals (as they more concentrated on human biology) so they outsourced even that pilot study.

Edited by Andey, 20 October 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[Andey]

Sorry, I cannot edit previous post so write new one )

Grigoriy contacted me and said that I misinterpreted his information ) They do fully reliable and representative test on aged mice and get good results - maximum lifespan was increased by 50%.
This was named pilot study because they planned to do more complete study with full lifespan on younger mice but it didnt happen for some reasons.

It would be right if you ask him direclty to avoid misinterpretation in future )
Grigoriy also have theory why and how C60 works with olive oil(and why it didnt happen with other solvents) and I hope he will share it with us soon )

[HHM]

I have ordered 2 x 1ml FWS14 at Ipacom to compare HYFN and c60evo effects. The cost for the 2 ml was 100USD but since it will end up giving 14 liter final solution it is actually not expensive. However please note that they in addition charge 165 USD for customs registration + 75 USD for TNT Delivery sending those 2 ml from Ukraine to Denmark

[sell58]

HHM, on 27 October 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

I have ordered 2 x 1ml FWS14 at Ipacom to compare HYFN and c60evo effects. The cost for the 2 ml was 100USD but since it will end up giving 14 liter final solution it is actually not expensive. However please note that they in addition charge 165 USD for customs registration + 75 USD for TNT Delivery sending those 2 ml from Ukraine to Denmark

You compare the effects HYFN and c60evo? New ?

Edited by sell58, 26 January 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[HHM]

Ipacom provide the most horrible service ever. I had to arrange TNT pickup, transport and customs papers myself so after quite some E-mails back and forth I decided to cancel the order.

[Andey]

HHM, on 26 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Ipacom provide the most horrible service ever. I had to arrange TNT pickup, transport and customs papers myself so after quite some E-mails back and forth I decided to cancel the order.

  They are so far away from retail sales thinking approuch that I dont think Sarah should ever consider Ipacom as competitors ) Even within Ukraine I found it rather difficult to arrange buying and delivery.
  Even glass ampule with C60 concentrate looks fragile for post delivery, it will be much better to send it in thick vial, or small plastic bottle.
  If you want I could ask in my post office wheather any problems could occur, if no problems expected than I can buy and resend it to you. Its a shame that only I have tryed both C60oo and C60HyFn at this forum.

Edited by Andey, 26 January 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[sell58]

I want to try the C60 HyFn. Cluster size is very interresting the biological point of view. I want to record the vibrations of clusters to reproduce digitally if possible.
I suspect that if the water source is not transportable Shungite is that clusters induced in the water are not self-sustaining with enough power.

" The size of C₆₀HyFn is 1.6-1.8 nm. C₆₀HyFn clusters (secondary associates) are formed by association of their hydrated shells. The sizes of such spherical clusters correspond to the following values: 3.4; 7.1; 10.9; 14.5; 18.1; 21.8; 25.4; 28.8; 32.4; and 36.0 nm."

I read the patents Luc Montagnier in redeemed Jacques Benveniste.
I have some experimental ideas.

I'm in France. How can we organize ourselves?

[Andey]

sell58, on 26 January 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I want to try the C60 HyFn. Cluster size is very interresting the biological point of view. I want to record the vibrations of clusters to reproduce digitally if possible.
I suspect that if the water source is not transportable Shungite is that clusters induced in the water are not self-sustaining with enough power.

" The size of C₆₀HyFn is 1.6-1.8 nm. C₆₀HyFn clusters (secondary associates) are formed by association of their hydrated shells. The sizes of such spherical clusters correspond to the following values: 3.4; 7.1; 10.9; 14.5; 18.1; 21.8; 25.4; 28.8; 32.4; and 36.0 nm."

I read the patents Luc Montagnier in redeemed Jacques Benveniste.
I have some experimental ideas.

I'm in France. How can we organize ourselves?

  Interesting ideas ) Shame I am not a scientist but even from my point of view it is a very interesing time in fullerene science now, everything is evolving fast.
  I have called Grigoriy Andrievsky minutes ago, asked about possibility to pack lower concentrations of C60 in vials instead of ampules. It called FWS1 if memory didnt fail me ) and need to be dissolved 1 ml to 500 to receive concentration of their selled supplement water. Andrievsky said it is possible )
  He also mentioned that they sending now few batches on request to scientific institutions in Germany and Canada and hope that would lead to more studies and discoveries in future.

  Returning to your problem - I will ask in a week my post office (it is closed now for the rest of weekend), if no negative answer from them, then we will arrange it ) I dont see really why they could reject to send some liquid in a bottle.

[sell58]

okay. Thank you. We'll talk next week.
Take care of yourself.

[HHM]

HHM, on 26 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Ipacom provide the most horrible service ever. I had to arrange TNT pickup, transport and customs papers myself so after quite some E-mails back and forth I decided to cancel the order.

Unexpected change of a.m. situation. Last week I received a mail from Ipacom that they have send me a sample ree of charge and today I received it. The package was opened by customs in Denmark but sealed off and forwarded to me without problems. The package contained following

1 x ampule of concentrated hydrated fullerene c60 FWS 14.4 mg/l (20 µM/l) in a transport suiteble box
1 x quality certificate in english language
1 x certificate in Russian or Ukranian language
1 x english translation of a.m certificateI - Titled "Conclusion of Goverment Sanitary and Epidemiological Inspection"
1 x Safety Data Sheet

I wil now engage on testing this product. Lately I have had very positive benefits from C60-oo so it will be interesting t compare

I only need to aquire som RO water for diluton of the hydrated fullerene and maybe 14 days of quarantene not consuming either C60-00 or C60FWS

I attach some pictures of the goods and the quality certificate

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[niner]

HHM, on 20 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

maybe 14 days of quarantene not consuming either C60-00 or C60FWS

Depending on the dose of c60-oo you've been using, it will take a lot longer than 14 days for it to leave your system.  More like somewhere between 14 weeks and 14 months.

[HHM]

Hmmm not so sure about that. To me it feels like the positive effects fade away after max 1 week