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Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

metronidazole

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43 replies to this topic

#31 daouda

  • Location:France

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

lol dauda you're the only one here who talked about fluoroquinolones. The OP spoke of MTZ (it's the subject!) and I recommended tinidazole as more effective and better tolerated drug of the same class. You interjected that the OP should take neither because you took some other drug and it caused you problems, which, you insisted, the OP also had, even though he denied it.

xEva youre displaying very strong intellectual dishonesty. OP took a neurotoxic drug, notorious for causing peripheral neuropathy, and I share many of the same symptoms (obviously neuropathy related), caused in me by another neurotoxic drug (which you ignorantly denied). I very clearly stated that while many of his symptoms were clearly not PN symptoms, many very clearly were or could be. So while I dont beleive that ALL of his issues are cause by MTZ neurotoxocity, there is evidently a serious possibility that some of them are, and that he might still be suffering from MTZ induced neuropathy. So advising him to take the closely related and similarly neurotoxic tinidazole is absolute lunacy. He may or may not need antiparasitic treatment , but he definitely should NOT take the gamble of worsening his (very likely) peripheral neuropathy with tinidazole until they become an irreversible condition - the reason why I suggested medendazole/ivermectin, just to show that there ARE possible alternatives, nobody should ever let a doctor tell you "this toxic drug is the only solution" until you have searched for alternatives thoroughly and unless you are on the verge of death.

I only mentionned quinolones to show that I have first hand experience of drug-induced peripheral neuropathy, which is relevant to the subject at hand (because I recognize some of the OP's symptoms as identical to mine). Do you deny that MTZ can cause peripheral neuropathy? When I talked about MY fluoroquinolone-induced neuropathy, you replyed

. Second, IMHO it is the yeast you take, apparently regularly, that cause your PN. The abx you mention do not cause neurotoxicity. It is yeast that go wild after administration of these drugs that cause it, because these drugs wipe out their competition. The metabolites of invasive form of yeast are neurotoxic. People who do not have yeast to begin with do not experience the side effects you describe after taking these drugs.

... which is plain wrong, and misleading.

So now do you mean you were not mentionning quinolones? Because it seems obvious this post was adressed to me

And if you dont think the fluroquinolone induced neuropathy experience has any relevance to nitroimidazole induced neuropathy, you strongly lack logical reasoning. Many docs make the fatal mistake of switching a fluoroquinolone-induced neurotoxicity suffering patient to a "better tolerated" quinolone only to send him to absolute hell. This is my story and that of many of my FQ victims fellows. The ignorance and irresponsability of docs regarding prescription of toxic drugs is appaling and becoming more and more of a problem, needlessly destroying formerly healthy bodies, everyday. I dont have much reasons to live these days if not to prevent a similar nightmare to happen to more people. There are almost ALWAYS alternatives to a strongly toxic drug when life is not immediately at stake.


Another perfect display of nauseating intellectual dishonesty on your part : I wrote :

Metronidazole, I guess the take home lesson from this is you really should take any medical advice from random people over the internet with a HUGE pinch of salt. Following my quinolone disaster I have even learned that you shoudl take medical advices from DOCTORS with a huge pinch of salt too... especially when it comes to drugs side effects.

Which you referred to in these words :

In the end you accused me of all the sins committed by yourself in this thread ..lol.. and effectively recommended the OP to never ask for advice, not on the net, nor from a doctor...
I will upvote you today, cause you gave me a good laugh :)

No comment needed.
Im out for good this time, you can have a field day making logically flawed, patronizing posts with plenty of lols and smileys.

Edited by daouda, 20 January 2013 - 02:38 AM.

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#32 xEva Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:USA

Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

No experience with nitazoxanide, only know some of its history. It's a drug discovered by a Frenchman, based on albendazole, which he tried to pedal in the US, and at some point there were hopes that it could be useful for Hep C (studies in Egypt again) and for many other intestinal bugs, both protists and worms, but in the end, unless the studies were done by groups affiliated with the guy himself, Alinia (its brand name), mostly failed to show better efficacy than most other already known, older, less expensive drugs.

They did not offer it to you, because MTZ is dirt cheap and why bother. Tinidazole is a good drug. But google around and see what else is there for you.
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#33 xEva Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:USA

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:39 AM

Daouda, again I missed your post, but this time I learned my lesson and won't interfere with my good luck :)


Metro, see the nitazoxanide study you linked to was done by the Rossignol (i.e. the inventor and the maker). At the time, he was promoting it very aggressively and any bug he tried it on, his Alinia came out superior compared to all existing drugs. And I mean, any bug, from all kinds of helminths to various protozoa. It looked like panacea with practically no side effects. Finally, others took notice and began to do their own comparative studies. Unfortunately, the numbers were vastly different from what Rossignol and his groups originally reported. First one, then others... This backfired on Alinia and left those who followed it with interest with bitter taste in the mouth. The bottom line is, do not trust the positive studies on nitazoxanide unless they were confirmed by independent groups (they reference the original studies).
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#34 Metronidazole Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

I didnt find anything about that when i was searching for that medication. Thank you a lot for mentioning it. Wouldn't have known it otherwise.

I started following the Candida diet today provided by my doctor. I never had any cravings for sugar, I don't like sweets much. However i did eat a lot of bread and now i feel really really hungry, since i didn't. I started the day with yoghurt instead, but i'll look for some alternatives. I also read that the blastocystis likes the grains a lot.

I'll also look into supplements that can help with my recovery(Besides the ones you mentioned in the other thread).
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#35 Graham Jason Duncombe Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:South Africa

Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:16 PM

@Registered User Netherlands: Your blood workup diagnoses the problem from the start:
You are suffering from Vitamin A overdose (hypervitaminosis A).
All of your symptoms can be traced to this fat-soluble accumulant.
Solution is to stop all Vitamin A containing supplements, including fish oils and retinols.
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#36 niner Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:01 AM

  • Vitamin A is too high

@Registered User Netherlands: Your blood workup diagnoses the problem from the start:
You are suffering from Vitamin A overdose (hypervitaminosis A).
All of your symptoms can be traced to this fat-soluble accumulant.
Solution is to stop all Vitamin A containing supplements, including fish oils and retinols.


Metronidazole, I think Graham is onto something here. Your symptoms have a lot of overlap with hypervitaminosis A, which can include neurotoxic effects. Are you taking any supplemental A? Eating a lot of liver? Cod liver oil? I'd still follow up on the microbial leads, as well as correcting other deficiencies, but you really ought to look at your vitamin A level and intake.
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#37 Graham Jason Duncombe Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:South Africa

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

I believe that the extra exposure to sunshine in Mexico could have provoked the Vitamin A effects. Hypervitaminosis A also causes nausea and stomach complaints initially.
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#38 Metronidazole Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

Thank you both for your replies! A lot! The doctor i'm visiting right now and that has made a treatment plan for me hasn't suggested anything to repair this nor really went into detail about high vit A. It seems like a lot of the symptoms i'm having are similar to those of Hypvervitaminosis A. However i haven't been taking any supplements for Vit A (Didn't take anything except Whey before i started having problems). Is there anything i can do to lower my Vit A?

Right now i'm on a diet (since 2 weeks) which pretty much consists of:
  • Green vegetables/ Garlic - a lot
  • Eggs everyday, Fish most of the days, chicken some days, red meat rarely
  • Lots of Olive oil and Coconut oil
  • Supplement containing pretty much every vitamin and mineral there is (prescribed by the doctor eventhough he knows I am high on Vit A and iron, but he says the amount is in there wont do any extra damage and the supplement overal is doing a lot of good in fixing my gut.
  • Few almonds a day
Other supplements he prescribed me and im taking:
  • Vit B12 injection once a week
  • Vit B12 Folium Acid below tongue every morning
  • Candibactin (Garlic, Hydrastis canadensis, undecylenic acid, grapefruit extract)
  • Cytozyme-AD (neonatal adrenal concentrate)
  • Melaleuca tabs
  • L-Carnitine
  • 2 Different Pro-Biotics (don't know exactly what's in it, will add tonight)
  • Vit D (don't know exactly what's in it, will add tonight)

Things he will add in the future:
  • Testosterone (first have to get my prostate checked)
  • DHEA (first have to get my prostate checked)
  • Iodine
  • Copper
I can say that with the diet i was feeling a little bit better. I felt like i was able to sleep better with the B12 injection, but when i started with the rest i was starting to feel a little less energenic and sometimes a small headache in the right top of my head. Somehow i think it's related to the malulueca, since they feel like strong pills.

I don't know if the feeling worse is due to "Candida die-off", since I don't know if that's really a thing. It would make sense if this was added to make it feel like you are making progress, when you are actually experiencing the symptoms of your body adjusting to a new diet/supplements. I would think they don't put extra toxic in my blood when they start dieing vs. when they are thriving on carbs. But this last paragraph is just speculation, it's just that i'm not able to find any reference to candida die-off in research. If this does exist can someone point me to it? I would really appreciate it!

I will regularly(every two weeks or monthly) post updates about my progress in this thread.
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#39 niner Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 11 February 2013 - 03:00 PM

The high vitamin A report might be a red herring if it's just borderline high. Still, given the large overlap in symptoms, I'd try to bring it down just to be on the safe side.

Are you getting all these vitamins and supplements directly from your doctor, or does he tell you what to buy and send you to the local vitamin store. I'm going to guess the former, since there is a lot of that going around. There are laws against doctors selling approved pharmaceuticals, the reason being that it creates a huge conflict of interest. Those laws do not stretch into the supplement realm, but the conflict of interest certainly does. What's the name of the multi-vitamin with everything in the world in it? I'd like to see the ingredient list.

Microbial "die-off" or Herxheimer reactions are the Internet's go-to explanation in order to keep a failed (or partially wrong) diagnosis on life support. Some bacteria have a highly inflammatory lipopolysaccharide as part of their structure, and if you popped too many at one time you might have a problem, but I don't think that's happening here. I'm not even sure that candida has any LPS, though it is affected by LPS from bacteria.
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#40 Metronidazole Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:36 AM

I'm getting the vitamins/supplements directly from the doctor. I think it's a little more expensive that way, but i can get some back trough taxes and know it's exactly the same as he prescribed.

The name of the supplement Metagenics Ultra Clear Sustain, I understand it doesn't have everything in the world in it. :) But it's a lot i think, more then i've ever taken. I only take 20g a day and i'm aware that it contains rice syrup and i asked the doctor about it, but he told me it was doing more good then harm. Same goes for the iron and vit A. What are your views on this?

Probiotic:
  • Colibiogen Oral - Escherichia coli (stam Laves) 2,3 x 108
  • Probactiol IB - Lactobacillus acidophilus NCFM 200 mg = 30 billion live organisms & Bifidobacterium lactis Bl-07 100 mg = 30 billion live organisms
Metagenics Ultra Clear Sustain Ingredient list:

NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION PER 60 g
  • 935 kJ
  • 220 kcal
  • protein 15.0g
  • carbohydrates 32.0g
  • Fibres 2.00 g
  • Fats 4.00 g
  • saturated 0.56 g
  • Vit. A 1200μg
  • - 450μg retinol palmitate
  • - Beta carotene 750μg
  • Vit. B1 (thiamine HCl) 0.53 mg
  • Vit. B2 (riboflavin) 0.60 mg
  • Vit. B3 (niacinamide) 7.00 mg
  • Vit. B5 (D-calcium pantothenate) 15.0mg
  • Vit. B6 (pyridoxine HCl) 0.70 mg
  • Vit. B12 (cyanocobalamin) 2.1μg
  • Vit. C (calcium ascorbate) 102mg
  • Vit. D (cholecalciferol) 2.5μg
  • Vit. E (D-alpha tocopherol acetate) 16.8mg
  • Vit. K (phytonadione) 80.0μg
  • biotin 105μg
  • folic acid 140μg
  • calcium citrate 315mg
  • Iron (fumarate) 3.60 mg
  • Phosphorus (dicalcium phosphate) 122mg
  • Magnesium (citrate) 121mg
  • Zinc (picolinate) 7.50 mg
  • Copper (Gluconate) 500μg
  • Molybdenum (sodium molybdate) 50.0μg
  • Chromium (polynicotinate) 75.0μg
  • Selenium (selenomethionine) 50.0μg
  • Fructo-oligosaccharides 3.00 g
  • 500mg L-glutamine
  • 5.00 mg L-glutathione
  • inulin 116mg
  • L-cysteine ​​(HCl) 5.00 mg
  • L-lysine (HCl) 35.0mg
  • L-threonine 34.0mg
  • N-acetyl-L-cysteine, 5.00 mg
  • Mixed with: rice protein concentrate, rice syrup powder, rice flour, olive oil, medium chain triglycerides, natural vanilla flavor, silicon dioxide, rosemary oil resin
Vit B12:
  • Injection once a week
  • B12 + foliumacid under the tongue
I've read on the site here that you should take vit B complex whenever you take one of the B's, is this always the case or could there be a reason my doctor didn't prescribe this? Perhaps for the Ultra sustain? But it contains only small amounts of vit B's.

Vit D3: Bio-D-Mulsion

Edited by Metronidazole, 12 February 2013 - 07:53 AM.

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#41 niner Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:22 PM

I'm getting the vitamins/supplements directly from the doctor. I think it's a little more expensive that way, but i can get some back trough taxes and know it's exactly the same as he prescribed.

The name of the supplement Metagenics Ultra Clear Sustain, I understand it doesn't have everything in the world in it. :) But it's a lot i think, more then i've ever taken. I only take 20g a day and i'm aware that it contains rice syrup and i asked the doctor about it, but he told me it was doing more good then harm. Same goes for the iron and vit A. What are your views on this?

Probiotic:
Metagenics Ultra Clear Sustain Ingredient list:
Vit B12:

  • Injection once a week
  • B12 + foliumacid under the tongue
I've read on the site here that you should take vit B complex whenever you take one of the B's, is this always the case or could there be a reason my doctor didn't prescribe this? Perhaps for the Ultra sustain? But it contains only small amounts of vit B's.

Vit D3: Bio-D-Mulsion


The Metagenics Ultra Clear Sustain isn't bad. I'd prefer to see you not get vitamin A or Iron, but at least the amounts are not overdosed. The product is actually dosed pretty conservatively. At iherb, it was 64 USD for 840g. It's a 'medical food', and is aimed at dysbiotic/leaky gut patients, The rest of the protocol seems entirely reasonable, although the Bio-D-Mulsion has a potential for being overpriced. Vitamin D3 in an oil-based formulation is effective and dirt-cheap. D3 should be titrated to a blood level of 25-OH-D3, since there is a lot of variability in utilization. 30-45 ng/ml is a good target level. I don't think you need to worry about balancing the B vitamins. You probably will not be on the B12 injections/folic acid forever anyway. I'd be interested in other peoples' views on the B issue, though, since I'm not an expert on it.
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#42 Metronidazole Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

Thank you for your reply. Yes he told me that it would assist in repairing my gut. What do you think about the ricesyrup that's in the Metagenics? Wouldn't that be feeding the candida and be a waste since i am not eating any sugar or carbs besides this. I will look into the Vitamin D3, thanks for the tip!
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#43 tham Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Posted 18 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

If you think that candida is the main culprit behind your condtion, then do
what my sister did when she had a chronic case of vaginal candidiasis some
years ago - take garlic and a good probiotic.


Take them several hours apart so that the garlic won't kill the bacteria.

Choose a probiotic with the potent Lactibacillus salivarius.


" I was helped to rid my body of Candida after discovering this product. "

http://www.rgarden.c...salivarius.html


" L. Salivarius has the unique ability to eradicate the dreaded Helicobacter pylori
(H. pylori) which can give annoying symptoms including poor energy, mood disorders,
heartburn and bad breath. "

http://www.buzzhealt...otic-55-billion


" Well, sure enough, after the cleanse, I had major candida overgrowth. Wiped it out quickly with Acidophilus, L. Salivarius, and finally Monistat. Then I took tons of L. Salivarius for a few weeks and avoided sugar as much as possible. "


http://curezone.org/...am.asp?i=565896



Monolaurin.

Glycerol monolaurate inhibits Candida and Gardnerella vaginalis in vitro and
in vivo but not Lactobacillus.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20008774



Goldenrod.

Inhibition of Candida albicans yeast-hyphal transition and biofilm formation
by Solidago virgaurea water extracts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22422572




Failing that, I think that homeopathy is the solution to your chronic, mysterious condition.

A homeopathic doctor does not need to know what the cause is behind your symptoms,
although that certainly helps. He assesses you from your description of your symptoms
and overall presentation, from which he will come out with a "remedy picture" and a
constitutional homeopathic remedy which best fits this picture.

Essentially, two patients might have candidiasis, but present with a completely different
remedy picture, and thus be given two different constitutional remedies which form the
principal baseline remedy in his treatment.

This is why detailed consultation with an experienced homeopathic practitioner is important,
as constitutional treatment is required in a complex, chronic condition like yours, and not
simply just buying any clinical remedy from a homeopathic store.




Edited by tham, 18 April 2013 - 10:20 PM.

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#44 Metronidazole Re: Sick after using Metronidazole, anyone has ideas how i can get better?

  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

Thank you for your advice tham. I am currently still on a vegetable/proteine diet. My general feeling is getting a little bit better, but my physical problems still remain.

I've also moved to a different area where i had to go with a new GD. He did some other blood tests and discovered that i have antibodies for EBV(Epstein Barr Virus) that indicate that I've had it recently. I asked him if it was possible that it started last year april and he told me that was possible. The EBV probaly is a reason the Candida found in my body was so high, since it is/was straining the immune system.
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