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Sunifiram side effects thread

sunifiram side-effects

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#1 Geoffrey

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:40 AM


Since sunifiram has not yet undergone human trials, as far as I know, it would be a good idea for those of us taking it to list any side effects, whether beneficial or adverse. Of course it is hard to determine what a side effect is when a drug does not have an official "on-label" effect, but we shall assume that the intended effect is cognitive enhancement. This thread should be used for listing any effects that either do not relate to cognitive enhancement, or have a perceived adverse relationship to cognitive enhancement.

Personally I have only been using sunifiram for a few days (two microscoops per day, one in morning, one in afternoon), with a small amount of a choline source (centrophenoxine) taken at a different time during the day (with lunch). I am not taking any racetam during my trial of sunifiram. So far I have noticed the following side effects:

- like pramiracetam, sunifiram noticeably dampens the slight, very high-pitched tinnitus that is aggravated in me by piracetam, aniracetam, oxiracetam and noopept

- about 30 minutes to an hour after taking sunifiram, I notice twitching in the muscles around my eyes, sometimes heaviness of eyelids. This subsides after a further 30 minutes (approx.)

- so far I have woken up with a mild headache and stuffiness, especially in my ears, the morning after taking sunifiram; I also seem to need more sleep. I am aware that others have reported that they need less sleep with sunifiram. I shall monitor this and report back if this perceived side effect proves to have been unrelated to sunifiram.
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#2 Stormy

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:57 PM

Positives:
- Music is much more intense and affects me more deeply. I feel like I'm experiencing the music, rather than just listening to it.
- I get these feelings of intense nostalgia and suddenly feel like I'm seeing and experiencing the world as a little kid again. (Usually this requires an auditory trigger that reminds me of childhood - 80's songs are a surefire bet, but the music from an icecream truck also triggered it once, as did the character voices when I was watching an episode of Thundercats on youtube)
- General feeling of happiness, peace, and well-being. Borders on euphoria when stacked with Oxiracitam, caffeine, and\or DMAA (the stimulant, not MDMA).

Negatives:
- Insomnia and\or "worthless sleep" - meaning I fall asleep but don't feel rested at all the next day. (Thankfully, I only experience these effects if Suni is taken within four or five hours of bedtime. If I take it in the morning or afternoon, I don't have these issues.)
- Anxious paranoia as the Suni wears off. HOWEVER, this has greatly subsided since I began using Suni on a fairly regular basis
- Quickly developing tolerance. I need to stay away from the stuff for several days or the better part of a week if I want to experience strong effects the next time I use it.
- Mild occasional headache if I take a large dose, or many doses in one day. However, this is nothing I can't chase of with an ibuprofen. (I haven't tried chasing it off with a choline supplement because choline makes me extremely groggy and seems to have an adverse effect on my usual racetam stack, so I tend to avoid choline supplements in general).

WTF:
- Increased sex drive. I have NO IDEA what's up with this, as this isn't a side effect I've heard anyone else reporting, but it seems to be directly linked to my Suni use. FWIW, I'm a 32 year old female, good health, not taking any type of hormones, not taking any other medications or supplements that have ever impacted this area of my life in either direction. It's not turning me into an insatiable wildebeest or anything, but there is a definite increase in desire - I didn't report this one initially in the other thread because 1) it was such an unexpected effect that it took me a while to link the two together, and 2) I wanted to make sure it wasn't some weird coincidence, but at this point, I feel pretty confident saying it's directly related to my consumption (or lack thereof) of Suni on any given day.
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#3 Geoffrey

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the detailed report, Stormy. I didn't state my positives so far:

- a sense of well-being
- clarity of mind
- fascination for interesting colours and forms (especially when outdoors).

Regarding sex drive / libido (I'm same gender as my username, i.e. male), the fascination mentioned above seems to extend to (female) faces and body forms. This is a bit embarrassing, because I hate the kind of men who stare at women, but it's as if the primitive part of my brain which signals "attraction" towards strangers for very superficial reasons gets its signalling magnified in a way that's very hard to ignore (like a kid passing a sweet shop). I'm happily married, so this is an unwanted effect which I would rather suppress! I've experienced this with noopept in the past, but the effect faded with continual use (along with the other enhancements of noopept).

I'm wondering whether sunifiram will be just like all the racetams I've tried: great / exciting for a week or two, until homeostasis sets in.

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#4 vali

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:47 PM

Sex drive is a weird thing. I generally have a very low sex drive, but anything that causes the brain to work harder wakes it up again. As a result, I get an increased sex drive from all the racetams, and of course everything that boosts dopamine (nicotine, phenibut, tyrosine, ect).

It's very strange. I spend my life neither noticing nor caring about the bodies of people around me, then I take some chemical and suddenly these things actually become interesting, and porn, which normally I never watch, is magically transformed from a surreal gymnastic event into something exciting and engaging.
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#5 Geoffrey

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

The other side effect I'm noticing with sunifiram is increased wakefulness (banishing of feelings of fatigue). The effect is similar to (r-)modafinil, but so far without the inconsistent effects on language and memory that modafinil has in me.

I guess this is to be expected for an ampakine-class substance. However, if I take sunifiram no later than about 4pm, I find myself sleeping a lot longer that night, and waking up feeling groggy (as mentioned above) until I've had caffeine (and/or another dose of sunifiram). This has happened enough times now for me to be able to rule out extraneous factors.

I don't get this effect when I take modafinil right up till 6pm. At bedtime I can cancel the wakefulness produced by modafinil with 1mg-2mg melatonin and then I sleep normally with no grogginess the next day. I have yet to try taking sunifiram later. I note that isochroma writes of taking sunifiram just before bed and then finding he needs a reduced amount of sleep and waking naturally. Some people use modafinil in this way, to enable them to feel fresh on waking after only 3 or 4 hours' sleep (on an exceptional basis, of course -- it would be deleterious to health to do that regularly).

It would be good to have other reports of sunifiram's effects on sleep duration and quality.

#6 yowza

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 04:15 AM

As just a general observation, I've noticed that if feeling overstimulated (reason I think it works best when the dose is a bit lower for me) the negatives seem to increase when working or focusing on something a long while. However, the positive is that the effects go away or dampen when I dim the lights, put on a pair of sunglasses, or lie down for a while. The effects seem to be correlated somewhat with what I'm doing, which I think is positive in that I can allow myself to relax on it if need be (sometimes it takes a bit though). I think dosage wise, I'm not going to go above 2-3 mg though (just to be on the safe side and try and avoid overstimulation as it's not good for cognition enhancement). The auditory enhancement (listen better) was a benefit I hope to explore more.

Edited by yowza, 28 May 2013 - 04:22 AM.


#7 andrea23

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:06 AM

don't know if it is the sunifiram or the long term effect of noopept, but sometimes during the day or when i'm waking old memories became much more vivid

#8 Isochroma

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

I get the same effect - it's the Sunifiram.


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#9 Rethar

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 06:58 PM

This is on a 10mg twice a day dose.

Negatives:
nightmares consistently each night.

don't feel rested after sleeping. This effect keeps adding up and making me more and more tired as the days go on. I pretty much need to take a break after 5 days of being on sunifiram to get rid of this sleep-deprived type of fatigue. However taking 2 days off dosing clears it all up for me and don't feel the sunifiram sleep-deprivation anymore.

after several days of being on it, certain sounds start feeling annoying due to sensing them as too loud. not sure if this annoyance is due to the sleep-deprivation or a buildup of effects. reminds me a bit of the annoyance of sounds that goes along with a hangover.

two days after stopping dosing, get rebound depression that lasts for about a day. At first I thought this was me going back to baseline of being depressed but I think it's more than that. Might have to do with the fact that sunifiram makes me feel much better emotionally and then coming off gives me a bit of withdrawal from that.


Positives:

doing new or more active things gives me a euphoric type of rush. I.E. going outside on a sunny day makes me feel amazing while on sunifiram. Or doing a workout makes me get a huge rush out of it. It's almost like my response to endorphins gets amplified.

huge increase in confidence. lows in mood in response to events in life or getting bothered by other people sharply decreased. I have social anxiety issues, but on sunifiram things bother me way less. It's way way easier to talk to anyone, or do things I'd normally feel too anxious about doing. It was really impressing me how I wasn't taking peoples crap anymore and standing up for myself (it wasn't that sunifiram made me more aggressive, it was just that I didn't feel like I should always back down, because the anxiety wasn't getting to me as much).

feel very awake.

sights and sounds have increased intensity. Colors stand out as more vibrant, sounds feel like they are much louder. These effects seem to last at least a week after stopping dosing however they aren't as strong as while dosing.

intensity of taste is stronger.

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#10 MizTen

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

Similar to Rethar. But no nightmares.

Very careful dosing and mindful cycling make this a helpful noot for me. But no more extreme sunshine effects, as there were at first trial, now it just simply increases a re-learning (and appreciation) of long-ago social perceptions and responses, pre-PTSD. Also a slight upgrade of timing, both in communication and physical activities, very helpful while using physically active, spacial, people-oriented skills. Still helps mulit-tasking and getting things done. I just don't sing and dance so much anymore while doing the work. Too bad, that was really fun...

But fun experiences are a baseline for learning. So figuring out how to make some of the drudgery of learning feel more like fun is important, thus see about intentionality below.

Bad idea for me to take any later than noon-time. I am an early riser and have benefitted hugely from my recent ability (due to circumstantial changes) to maintain sleep hygeine practices. Anything stimulant after the sun passes mid-day, even most of the nootropics, undermine my natural sleep cycles.

I will speak to the issue of intentionality, though maybe there's a better word for it. "Doing new or active things" is really a form of intentionality. I suppose, "I wanna get high" is too, though that's not an intention that I want to give text-time to, not that I judge that intention harshly, it just may be a little more unsafe, I don't know for sure.

Intending to learn new material, intending to heal at least a little nerve/brain damage, or intending to take care of a backlog of the Procrastinators Dread List are all probably helpful starting points. Without a clear reason to use any of this stuff (at least those nootropics untested on humans) I think we are being kind of dumb. No disrespect to the many natural-born experimenters who may also be involved in making these chemicals. Had my life been different, I might be doing that too.

So anyway, if some kind of intention like I mentioned above is there at the start, then probably you will be able to figure out what the good, bad, and ugly are for something like sunifiram. Keep in mind your own current issues and your innate uniqueness.
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#11 onigiri

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

The first day I took sunifiram it caused huge headache and neck stiffness, mostly pain on the sides of the head almost as if elephant was standing on my head, and I almost never get headache, I can still count the times my head hurt with one hand.

Colour red is drawing my attention a lot, I don't really even like red, but since sunifiram, it just pops.
Childhood memories are vivid.
I find it easier to tap into my childlike personality thing (hard to explain)
I've regained my quite extreme outside the box thinking, quite creative actually.. with immense interest in tinkering with things and stuff.
Easiness in planning things.. and designing things in my mind, easy to construct complex 3D models in my mind.
Enhanced ability to read people and animals(my two cats), which I normally have quite big problems with.. aspergers and all that.

Other than the initial headache which so far havent reoccurred, no other apparent negative effects.
I seem to be requiring quite large dose to maintain the effects for any period of time, the smaller doses of up to 15mg give the same effects but very short period like 30min or so. So I'm dosing at the moment up to 30mg 3 times a day.

#12 Geoffrey

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 03:57 PM

One more negative I've noticed twice now: increased anger response.

I'm not an angry person. I hardly ever lose my cool, and people often ask me to mediate between sparring colleagues. But on sunifiram (one microscoop twice a day, haven't yet got a mg scale...) I have now twice had sudden bad reactions to emails I've received which made me see red. Of course I've seen red before, but it felt very very different this time. I could feel the anger radiate out from somewhere in my brain in a huge cascade. One minute I was in a good mood, the next minute it was as if one (with hindsight rather insignificant) piece of information flipped the entire state of my mood. It felt like a wave sloshing around my brain. I literally had to hold myself back from sending a flame email which would have escalated a minor situation into a major one. Quite literally I had to hold my head and tell myself to calm down. I can't emphasise enough that this is not my usual behaviour. I'm a little alarmed, to tell the truth. It seems that sunifiram is potentiating everything, the good, the bad and the ugly.

It's odd because sunifiram is also causing a real increased sense of well-being in me, and a definite mood lift. These are *isolated* instances, but the feeling was so distinct from the way anger usually affects me that I have to assume it's the sunifiram. I also want to stress that so far the positives (of which I'll write more in another post) are definitely outweighing the negatives. I just wanted to record this negative side effect before I forget the intensity of the feeling.

#13 Geoffrey

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:48 AM

Another side effect of sunifiram I've noticed is increased salivation (very obvious) and increased perspiration (noticed once, might just be due to climatic conditions, but much more copious than what I'm used to in the UK). This may just be a side effect of the general amplification of certain signalling pathways in the brain. The increased salivation is a good effect -- no more dry mouth! Can anyone else corroborate?

#14 andrea23

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:59 PM

another weird effect: just before fall asleep my mind produce images of unknown/invented people, it's not a lucid dream, it's like my mind let me involuntary imagine it for 3-4 seconds in the dark

#15 Stormy

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:25 PM

Geoffrey - I've had the anger issues happen during the come-down before, and I've also had them crop up the day *after* I've taken several doses. I've experienced paranoid anxiety (everyone's mad at me, I've got a ton of stuff to do for work that I'll never get done in time so I'll get in trouble, etc) more than I've experienced anger, and I've found both to fade with frequent Suni use, but the anger *has* happened a few times. I didn't post it initially because it was infrequent enough that I wasn't entirely sure it was related to the Suni, and I didn't want to risk listing a false or unrelated side effect here, but since you're mentioning it - yes, I've also experienced the same, albeit infrequently.

#16 Patrick Sylvester

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:17 AM

can people who report here leave a list of other supplements/chemicals taken during the same day as sunifiram?
or if solely taking sunifiram, declare it as well?

no need for stuff like fish oil/omegas or vitamins -- but stuff like choline sources, glutamates, racetams, minerals, caffeine, sulbutiamine (&other altered vitamins), prescriptions, mono amines, inhibitors, agonists, etc. are the sort to declare.
no need for dose amounts or anything too detailed, just a quick informal listing. it would greatly help clarify perceived or real effects, thanks!

#17 owtsgmi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

another weird effect: just before fall asleep my mind produce images of unknown/invented people, it's not a lucid dream, it's like my mind let me involuntary imagine it for 3-4 seconds in the dark


It's interesting that you mention 'just before sleep', since I have also experienced this with Sunifiram. I have thought about this a lot since it is so bizarre. It's like there is no separation between awake and sleep. It is like you get into the dream state too fast, where your conscious mind is aware of what is happening in the beginning part of the dream. I remember one time I was trying to fall asleep and I finally did and then I felt my wife shake my arm and it woke me back up. I went to ask her why she shook me and she was sound asleep. After thinking about it, I realized that I had drifted into a dream and she did that in the dream. It seemed so damn real it was unsettling. A couple of other times I was awakened by my dreams right after falling asleep. It is really annoying and makes it hard to fall asleep. After taking suni for a week or so, I started getting the feeling like I wasn't getting quality sleep since I would be floating in and out of sleep for hours at night. This, however never seemed to affect me too bad during the day. I don't usually feel overly tired while on suni. It's almost like my baseline state on suni is closer to the sleeping state (mainly at bedtime). This may explain why getting what I would normally term as "crappy" sleep, does not seem to negatively affect me so much (I.e., since I am already in a suni-induced, relaxed sleep-like state). Anyway, I don't if this makes a lot of sense, but I wanted to log these thoughts and would love to hear about any similar experiences.
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#18 andrea23

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 08:53 AM

another weird effect: just before fall asleep my mind produce images of unknown/invented people, it's not a lucid dream, it's like my mind let me involuntary imagine it for 3-4 seconds in the dark


It's interesting that you mention 'just before sleep', since I have also experienced this with Sunifiram. I have thought about this a lot since it is so bizarre. It's like there is no separation between awake and sleep. It is like you get into the dream state too fast, where your conscious mind is aware of what is happening in the beginning part of the dream.


it's not a dream, it's like you say to me "imagine a chair", i imagine it in my mind. In this case is like the thought of the chair entered in my mind without a logic and against my will

#19 golden1

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:25 PM

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hypnagogia

#20 owtsgmi

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hypnagogia


I think we are onto something. Your link led me to the lucid dreaming link in Wikipedia. This excerpt about the wake-initiated lucid dream seems pretty accurate to what I experienced:

"A lucid dream can begin in one of two ways. A dream-initiated lucid dream starts as just a normal dream, and the dreamer eventually concludes it is a dream. A wake-initiated lucid dream occurs when the dreamer goes from a normal waking state directly into a dream state, with no apparent lapse in consciousness. The wake-initiated lucid dream "occurs when the sleeper enters REM sleep with unbroken self-awareness directly from the waking state".[22]

andrea23 - I also see how it is related to what you say about some annoying and involuntary thought being injected into your mind at the onset of sleep. Truly a weird experience and the reason I concluded my first 2 week suni trail a couple of months ago. I have since restarted it due to the overt positive mood effects and pro-social feelings I get on it.

I think this will my subject of interest for the next few days.
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#21 Climactic

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 07:30 AM

This is a cross-post. The original post was made on the main sunifiram thread. Below is the copy.

SUNIFIRAM TOXICITY REPORT

This is a critical user report of alleged sunifiram induced toxicity.

Doses: On Wednesday, the 29th of May 2013, I took sunifiram with armodafinil, modafinil, and phenylpiracetam. Only the sunifiram was new. The rest were taken by me together and several times with no problem whatsoever. Here is a an approximate log:
  • 2 pm: 75 mg armodafinil
  • 6 pm: 5 mg sunifiram
  • 6:30 pm: 50 mg phenylpiracetam
  • 7 pm: 50 mg modafinil
  • 7:30 pm: 10 mg sunifiram
  • 8 pm: 50 mg phenylpiracetam
The effective totals were 15 mg sunifiram (purchased from Liftmode), 100 mg R-modafinil, and 100 mg phenylpiracetam. Once again, note that the [ar]modafinil and phenylpiracetam were taken by me several times before, with no issue whatsoever. Even the 15 mg sunifiram was taken by me several times before in isolation, with no issue. The problem, however, was clearly with the combination. As it has been mentioned in this thread previously, sunifiram has a potentiation and a permanence effect to it. Remember now that sunifiram is an ampakine and an LTP inducer. Also remember that phenylpiracetam is alleged to have an ampakine effect.

Symptoms: I have experienced pressure and pain in my temples starting approximately 8 pm that night. This pressure and pain occur together. The severity of the pain varies from 0 to 5 out of 10. It comes and goes. Sometimes the pressure gets more severe, and this is followed by tinnitus. As of today, i.e. 5 days later, there has been no reduction in the symptoms whatsoever. Hospital staff did not notice an elevated cranial pressure, but this evaluation was done when I was temporarily symptom free. I have no past history of tinnitus, and this pressure and pain is unlike anything I have ever had in the past.

Failed treatments: Magnesium threonate and L-theanine seem to help a little, but very temporarily at best. Analgesic painkillers do not help at all. A Toradol (ketarolac) injection, which is supposed to be a very powerful painkiller, was applied by medical staff, with no real effect. Potassium, ethanol, or caffeine worsen the symptoms immediately.

Personal hypothesis: (1) Glutaminergic excitotoxicity via AMPA and possibly NMDA receptors, with these receptors being oversensitized or increased by sunifiram. (2) An LTP effect induced by sunifiram leading to permanence of sunifiram's effects.

Comments: Just one day later, but too late for me, it was duly noted by user lenses that this excitotoxicity could very well happen. On the same day, user deeptrance noted recovery from sunifiram's undesired effects, although I haven't been this lucky.

Recommendations: Do not risk using more than about 5 mg sunifiram stacked with other stimulants. Safer yet, do not mix it with other powerful stimulants or any ampakines at all. Revisit other prior cautionary notes as well.

Requests: I cannot go on living my life like this, and I need to fix this situation. Continued excitotoxicity will kill me slowly. I immediately need effective treatments I can use. I will be seeking professional help, but if you feel you have something useful to share, please respond here or via PM. It is uncertain whether the problem can fix itself or not, or how long this might take. Should I try strong AMPA and/or NMDA antagonists or negative allosteric modulators? What approaches should I look at? Which medical tests should I ask for to confirm or reject my hypothesis? Is there an alternate hypothesis I must consider?

Edited by Climactic, 04 June 2013 - 07:31 AM.

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#22 onigiri

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:47 AM

Dude.. you're dosing all that and concluding it has to be sunifiram, yes it might be, but not by itself. It just happens to be the last thing that finally broke the camels back.
I had the initial first time headache and pressure on my temples, but since that not the slightest.
My advice to you, stop taking all that stuff. Take your vitamins, fish oil, probably some choline source too.

As of your warnings to others, I'm with you, rise dosing SLOWLY from 5mg and don't overdo it. No stacking with stimulants before you've been using sunifiram for a while and even then very carefully. Be very careful about taking it with anything else other than the normal vitamins/FO/choline.

Have you tried any vasodilator? Vinpocetine seemed to help me on the first days pains and pressure.

Edited by onigiri, 05 June 2013 - 08:50 AM.

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#23 Climactic

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:06 AM

Dude.. you're dosing all that and concluding it has to be sunifiram, yes it might be, but not by itself. It just happens to be the last thing that finally broke the camels back.
I had the initial first time headache and pressure on my temples, but since that not the slightest.
My advice to you, stop taking all that stuff. Take your vitamins, fish oil, probably some choline source too.

As of your warnings to others, I'm with you, rise dosing SLOWLY from 5mg and don't overdo it. No stacking with stimulants before you've been using sunifiram for a while and even then very carefully. Be very careful about taking it with anything else other than the normal vitamins/FO/choline.

Have you tried any vasodilator? Vinpocetine seemed to help me on the first days pains and pressure.


I have concluded that sunifiram simply does not stack well with other strong stimulants - attempting this would be far too dangerous for anyone even if it works. I had been taking [ar]modafinil with phenylpiracetam for weeks, and the first time I combined it with sunifiram, I had this issue. For the sake of argument, had I added 100mg additional phenylpiracetam or 100mg caffeine instead of the 15mg sunifiram, I do not expect that any side effect would've occurred whatsoever. Having said that, I understand and agree that sunifiram 15mg by itself alone would not have been any problem, at least for a few days.

Yes, I have stopped taking all stimulants - I simply cannot tolerate any of them now - not even caffeine without worsening the headaches. So I can probably forget about redosing sunifiram at 5mg for now while I still have the headaches and pressure. I think my AMPA receptors must be too sensitized and/or their density must've increased to unsafe levels.

Yes, I am taking my vitamins, minerals, fish oil, citicoline, and vinpocetine too, as I have for a long time. Vinpocetine 30mg does not do much for my pain. I have not tried any other vasodilator, but I will add this suggestion to the list of things for me to consider.

Thank you and please don't hesitate to share any further thoughts, here or by PM.

Edited by Climactic, 05 June 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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#24 Geoffrey

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:22 PM

Yes, I am taking my vitamins, minerals, fish oil, citicoline, and vinpocetine too, as I have for a long time. Vinpocetine 30mg does not do much for my pain. I have not tried any other vasodilator, but I will add this suggestion to the list of things for me to consider.


Warning: I'm not a neurochemist, medical doctor or anything related, but I read in another thread that benzodiazepine (temazepam, diazepam) can help to arrest the potential excitotoxicity pathways. I've taken sunifiram with r-modafinil, (one evening, 5-10mg sunifiram, 40mg r-modafinil) and didn't notice any such symptom. I just felt pleasantly alert and sociable. If you're seeing a doctor, ask if a very short course of low-dose valium could help, given your hypothesis. Don't attempt to take it without medical advice, though.
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#25 golden1

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:40 PM

I've taken sunifiram with recreational doses of amphetamine : P
Not something I intend to continue, but I had to try it. (sunifirams vision and music enhancement is hugely increased with the combo, to a magical extent)

Just thought Id throw that out there, since I'd think amphetamine would surely be worse than phenylpiracetam+modafinil excitotoxicity wise but I felt fine after..

As for negatives, it seems to grow in side effects the longer you take it consecutively, some were:
increased feeling of growing unmanageable stress
waking up without feeling like I rested my mind
contentedness, but to an extent that it hurts motivation and creativity
slight headaches
dullness when taking a break from it
music enhancement becomes too much and I no longer found myself able to focus on the details of it because it all sounded equally good(bad for music production when you think something sounds much better than it does)
more tired overall due to sleep issues


anyway, I just use it as a once in a while thing and it works well for that.
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#26 onigiri

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

golden, for music production you might want to try Noopept, in my experience it made listening music worse in the way of hearing every instrument and whatnot, seperately.
The music is not enjoyable when noopept makes it too analytic.. Sunifiram seems to blend the instruments together and ease the harmony, thus enjoying music is easier.

This actually works on many things, Noopept makes me very analytical and kind of emotionless robot but still feeling good and kind of antidepressed..
Sunifiram makes me very creative and I don't rely so much in the patterns.. more improvisation if you will. Finding solutions to problems becomes fun. Also slight moodlift.
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#27 golden1

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

golden, for music production you might want to try Noopept, in my experience it made listening music worse in the way of hearing every instrument and whatnot, seperately.
The music is not enjoyable when noopept makes it too analytic.. Sunifiram seems to blend the instruments together and ease the harmony, thus enjoying music is easier.

This actually works on many things, Noopept makes me very analytical and kind of emotionless robot but still feeling good and kind of antidepressed..
Sunifiram makes me very creative and I don't rely so much in the patterns.. more improvisation if you will. Finding solutions to problems becomes fun. Also slight moodlift.


"Sunifiram seems to blend the instruments together and ease the harmony, thus enjoying music is easier." yeah exactly!!

Aniracetam is my music production savior, I'm able to make music on it that surprises myself. Noopept was/is similar, but for me it feels weird and I can't deal with the nagging feeling of weird from it.
working on this remix on it, it is coming out amazing, can't even believe I made it.... hahah ( https://soundcloud.c...xcartal-thefire ) link if you want to hear.
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#28 Geoffrey

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:09 AM

music enhancement becomes too much and I no longer found myself able to focus on the details of it because it all sounded equally good(bad for music production when you think something sounds much better than it does)


In general I find Sunifiram is not so good for concentration, because all stimuli existing in the environment together with random thoughts and memories get in the way of concentrating on one thing. Might be good for multitasking where you're flitting from one thing to another, but for concentrating on one task it makes it impossible, for example, to listen to music while undertaking a boring task (my mind can't shut out the stimulation provided by the music). Generally can't stop thinking about other things too.

#29 clean_press

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:35 PM

don't know if it is the sunifiram or the long term effect of noopept, but sometimes during the day or when i'm waking old memories became much more vivid

Yup I def had this experience

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#30 clean_press

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:03 PM

music enhancement becomes too much and I no longer found myself able to focus on the details of it because it all sounded equally good(bad for music production when you think something sounds much better than it does)


In general I find Sunifiram is not so good for concentration, because all stimuli existing in the environment together with random thoughts and memories get in the way of concentrating on one thing. Might be good for multitasking where you're flitting from one thing to another, but for concentrating on one task it makes it impossible, for example, to listen to music while undertaking a boring task (my mind can't shut out the stimulation provided by the music). Generally can't stop thinking about other things too.

Geoff - somehow that same effect improves my concentration, the old vivid memories, hyper-sensory awareness seems to improve my ability to stay on task. I like have the flashbacks and they don't really take me off track. I know it sounds paradoxical but that's what I been experiencing. Only down side is the massive requirement for fish oils which I find cumbersome.




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