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Nootropics: listing the most fantastic stack combinations!

phenylpiracetam sulbutiamine phenylethylamine hordenine caffeine anhydrous gaba l-tryptophan

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#1 MatthewH

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:36 AM

Please everyone feel free to post your stacks and/or advice.

Here is my current daily intake:

Daily Vitamins

1 - Multivitamin
1 - B-150
7 drops - Cell Power (mixed in a bottle of water that I take the rest of my pills with) (btw, this stuff is amazing and increases the absorption of every other supplement I take)

My Stack What are good doses for the ingredients (??'s) I have not yet added? I am capping my own 00's. Also, any good suggestions for mixing these ingredients? I was thinking mortar & pestle, but not sure if these might somehow effect each other adversely if I crush them together?

150mg - Phenylpiracetam
200mg - Sulbutiamine
?? - Phenylethylamine HCL (PEA)
?? - Hordenine HCl
200mg - Caffeine Anhydrous
?? - Choline

?? - Gamma Aminobutyric Acid (GABA)
?? -

Any other suggestions that anyone sees for this stack?

#2 RawProduce

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 08:40 AM

You will build tolerance to caffeine and sulbutiamine - they are best used as needed, not daily. GABA will have minimal impact on your state of mind but you will get a body buzz. It does not cross the BBB. PEA is also unlikely to have much of an effect.

I would suggest replacing GABA with L-Theanine to be used in combination with caffeine. I would also replace sulbutiamine with L-Phenylalanine and/or L-Tyrosine. If you're having trouble getting to sleep, melatonin will be more effective than L-Tryptophan. You can also manipulate your circadian rhythm with software applications like f.lux, which will change the color of the light your monitor outputs as the evening draws near and this will, in turn, cause an endogenous release of melatonin.
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#3 MatthewH

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:43 PM

Thanks for the insight! So, you are saying to drop the sulbutiamine to what frequency? 2 times a week? 3 times?

So a better stack would look like this:

150mg - Phenylpiracetam
?? - L-Phenylalanine
200mg - Caffeine Anhydrous
?? - CDP Choline
?? - L-Theanine

?? - Melatonin

But , what are good dose amounts?

Also, I have considered adding
Mucuna Pruriens 98% L Dopa Bulk Powder as well.

Edited by MatthewH, 07 October 2013 - 09:46 PM.

#4 Chopin

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:13 AM

Actually, taking melatonin regularly is a terrible, awful idea, because you will develop a tolerance and there will be some nightmarish side effects. For that matter, the amount contained in OTC products (~2.5mg) is about ten times what you should be using as a sleep aid. Natural sleep is best sleep.

If you're having sleep problems, the first thing I'd do is check your bed for EMF radiation. Sleeping on an earthing mat (which electrically grounds your body--the effect can be observed with a simple multimeter) will improve the quality of your sleep in almost any case. I found that there was a pretty powerful magnetic field coming from beneath the floor where I sleep, and pretty much since the night I started using an earthing mat I've slept 7-8 hours every night and awoken feeling genuinely refreshed, a feeling I can't recall ever having had before.
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#5 Chopin

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:18 AM


Also, avoid l-dopa. It's pretty powerful stuff; it's all too readily converted to dopamine and it can produce some very dangerous side-effects, and beyond a certain point it can be neurotoxic enough to cause irreversible damage to the dopaminergic system. Use l-tyrosine instead--it's not as direct of a precursor, and can safely boost dopamine levels if that's what you're after.

Edited by Chopin, 08 October 2013 - 08:20 AM.

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#6 scitris

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:53 PM

My current stack is:
  • Noopept 20mg
  • Uridine(-Monophosphate) 250mg
  • CDP-Cholin 250mg
  • Acetyl-L-Carnitin 1.5g
  • Phosphatidylserine (50%) 800mg (400mg)
  • Fish Oil: 1080mg EPA and 720mg DHA (6c)
  • Activated/Coenzymated B-Complex 1c //Swanson Ultra Activated B-Complex
Noopept, UMP, Citicolin, ALCAR, PS are combined in form of capsules and so I take them together.
All in all 5 caps/day, divided in 3 times per day. In form of 2:2:1
I make my own caps so every ingredient is part of one capsule.

With them i take my fish oil caps. 2:2:1:1
So three times a day i take them together with the "Stack" i mentioned before. PS,ALCAR, Noopept, UMP,Citicolin.
So last cap i take with/at dinner.

The B-Complex is taken in the early evening.

I take other things too, but they are secondary I think.

How Chopin said before, i wouldnt take L-Dopa, it could mess around with your dopamine system too much, could lead to downregulation and it has many sideeffects.
Furthermore most of it wouldnt reach your brain. I dont know it exactly but if I remember well most Doctors prescribe it in combination with an MAOb-I.

If you take L-Tyrosine I would reduce my L-Phenylalanine intake. Phenylalanine -> L-Tyrosine -> L-Dopa -> Dopamine; Phenylalanine -> PEAs

alternatives to Melatonin:
  • Inositol
  • Glycine
  • 5-HTP
  • L-Theanine
Herbal alternatives for Melatonin, but i heard of fast tolerance build up:
  • Chamomille
  • Valerian
  • Passionflower
I know Melatonin has many fans and Im sure it has his goodies like Antioxidant properties, but wouldnt mess with this system much. I have not only good experiences with Melatonin.
So I would take it occassionally.

If you can afford it, I would substitute the normal B-Complex with an "activated" one. That only means that your body has first to metabolize that synthetic vitamins to be able to use it.
There are many hints that synthetic b-vitamins could have other negative effects. Me for example cant tolerate that syn. b-vits.
But from the activated/coenzymated i get real benefit!

Caffeine and L-Theanine i would take them together.
one more pair is phenylpiracetam and CDP-Cholin. (Dunno the MoA of Phenypiracetam, but as a racetam they are (most of the time) good paired with a choline source)

My alternative to your stack would be:
  • Green or White Tea (L-theanine + Caffeine)
  • CDP-Choline + XYracetam (as XYracetam i would suggest Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetanm or Coluracetam)
I have heard that Phenylpiracetam has stimulating properties for the most people. And people crash on it!
  • Fish Oil
  • Activated B-Vitamins + L-Phenylalanine

To relax and sleep:
  • a good cup of a tea, my favorite is Jiaogulan (besides his relaxing properties, it is a adaptogen and helps effectively against stress ;))
  • Magnesiumbisglycinate
  • L-Theanine

Is safe and should be as effective like Melatonin.

Edited by scitris, 10 October 2013 - 05:21 PM.

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#7 BigJohn

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 05:27 PM

Morning Stack:

Piracetam- 1000 mg
Oxiracetam- 800 mg
Sulbutiamine- 200 mg
Noopept- 5 mg
Vinpocetine- 20mg
CDP Choline- 250 mg
Choline Bitartrate- 800 mg

Afternoon Stack

Piracetam- 1000 mg
Oxiracetam- 800 mg
CDP Choline- 250 mg
Choline Bitartrate- 600 mg
Vinpocetine- 20 mg
Sulbutiatmine- 200 mg
Rhodiola Rosea- 400 mg

#8 leftside

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:53 PM

- Phenylpiracetam
200mg - Sulbutiamine
?? - Phenylethylamine HCL (PEA)
?? - Hordenine HCl
200mg - Caffeine Anhydrous
?? - Choline

Seriously, the 150mg of Phenylpiracetam (start with 100mg) + Sulbutiamine should be more than enough and even then I wouldn't take it on a daily basis. About the only 2 listed there I'd take on a daily basis would be the Choline and Sulbutiamine (5 days/week).

If what you are looking for is a buzz, rather than nootropic effects then try Phenethylamine (PEA)
1) Preload with 1500mg of L-Tyrosine
2) PEA 750mg with 300mg hordenine + 150mg caffeine

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#9 eon

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:01 AM

This is my currently active daily stack, which is split twice a day (am/pm):

-DMAE - 400mg

-DHEA - 50mg (plus I use a 7-Keto DHEA topical cream once a day)

-Inositol - 2g (I used to take 12g daily but had to cut down to avoid any interaction with the other nootropics I started using)

-ALCAR - 1000mg

-Phosphatidyl Serine - 400mg

Other supplements I take that may not be considered a nootropic:

-D-Ribose - 5-10g a day, depends on the day I do my workout.

-DHA (fish oil) - 600mg

-Gelatin - 1 teaspoon on some days (equivalent to 4-5g)


-Vitamin C - 1g

-Vitamin B-1 - 200mg

-Vitamin B-6 - 50mg

-Vitamin B-12 - 1000mcg

-Vitamin B-5 - 500mg

-Vitamin D3 - 5000IU

-Magnesium - 250mg

-Vitamin E - 400mg

-Milk Thistle - 2000mg

I take Picamilon when feeling depressed on occasion but not daily. I cycled off Piracetam and Alpha GPC recently. Might cycle on Noopept in a few days. I take L-theanine here and there usually when drinking black tea but not daily.

I have several bulk powders that I have yet to try and is it a good idea to add these to my stack: Phenibut, Synephrine, Noopept, L-Arginine, D-Aspartic Acid, PEA, Hordenine, CDP Choline, Creatine Monohydrate, and Saw Palmetto.

Not all are nootropic but some are for workout related.

I wish I didn't have to take this much. Not sure how I ended up using this much nootropics. I guess it started out as an obsession of wanting to try everything that exists. LOL. My first nootropic stack really was just Huperzine A. Then it was Vinpocetine with Phosphatidyl Serine. I hope to keep this simple soon. Maybe Hydergine (which I haven't tried yet) with Piracetam? Using several bulk powders and measuring them twice a day takes time, especially if you live in a fast paced location with a fast paced lifestyle.

Curious what's the half life of the nootropics I listed? I'm guessing about 24-48 hours? I ask this because usually when I take a new nootropic or drug, I get off another for a few days before I ingest something new, just to avoid any contraindication, if it existed. Though the stuff I take has no known contraindication that I know about so far.

Now regarding PEA, which I have but haven't tried yet. Is this related to N,alpha-diethylphenylethylamine (N,alpha-DEPEA)? They share a similar sounding name. The latter which is found in the CRAZE pre-workout supplement (though not listed as an ingredient) is said to be a close cousin of meth. So I'm cautious before I even try it although PEA is probably a different chemical structure.

P.S. I'm still shopping around for a good Idebenone source.

Edited by eon, 18 October 2013 - 10:07 AM.

Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: phenylpiracetam, sulbutiamine, phenylethylamine, hordenine, caffeine anhydrous, gaba, l-tryptophan

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