6 replies to this topic

[freepie]

1) Is Ritalin+Uridine+DHA+Piracetam+Choline better than Bupropion+Uridine+DHA+Piracetam+Choline?

I know that neither is recommended, but does the Ritalin stack have less contraindications? (In particular, I mean Ritalin LA versus Bupropion XL)


2) Is Bupropion+Ashwagandha OK?

3) Is Bupropion+Brahmi (Bacopa) OK?


Thanks a lot!

[ZHMike]

better is hard to say, what are your goals?

[mrd1]

Both Ritalin and bupropion exert their effects primarily via acting as a DAT inhibitor. Ritalin is a slightly strong inhibitor than bupropion. Other than that both also share NRI activity. And, wellbutrin is a nicotinic antagonist.

If you have major depressive disorder bupropion is likely better.

If you have ADHD, excessive daytime sleepiness, or narcolepsy than Ritalin is likely better.

uridine + choline+ dha + piracetam to my knowledge have no interactions with either.

[freepie]

better is hard to say, what are your goals?

Less anxiety, less fatigue, sustained motivation, greater ability to learn and retain new information, creativity in problem-solving.

Both Ritalin and bupropion exert their effects primarily via acting as a DAT inhibitor. Ritalin is a slightly strong inhibitor than bupropion. Other than that both also share NRI activity. And, wellbutrin is a nicotinic antagonist.

If you have major depressive disorder bupropion is likely better.

If you have ADHD, excessive daytime sleepiness, or narcolepsy than Ritalin is likely better.

uridine + choline+ dha + piracetam to my knowledge have no interactions with either.

Bupropion is a stronger NRI than DRI, and Ritalin is a stronger DRI than NRI, right? So Bupropion is more likely to cause anxiety, right? Bupropion is also an antagonist at the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors so it's more contraindicated with Piracetam, right?

Edited by freepie, 04 March 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[mrd1]

1. Neither methylphenidate nor bupropion do much for having less anxiety directly.
2. Since rmethylphenidate is used for narcolepsy, and is "considered effective in increasing wakefulness, vigilance, and performance"** (** the sample consisted of people with narcolepsy. Therefore, it is less clear if someone without narcolespy would have the same level of improvement on these variables.) [1]( Fry, 1998) However, dexamphetamine,and bupropion have the ability to "increase stamina and endurance" [2[( Roeland B & de Koning J et al.)
3. Both ritalin and burpropion can slightly improve motivation and memory when at therapeutic dosages. However, Ritalin might be stronger. [3](Malenka et al., 2009)

A. Bupropion is a stronger inhibitor of Dopamine uptake than Norepinephrine uptake (100% vs. 27) *Bupropion has a metabolite called "S,S- Hydroxy bupropion that has a NE uptake of 106% in rats and, I am not sure if this plays a significant role. [4](Horst WD, 1998)

B. Methylphenidate has a much higher binding profile for DAT (Ki:41} vs for NET (Ki:345.1) [5](Roth&Driscol, 2011)

C1. Bupropion at 150-300 as XR has a Anxiety occurance of 7% (Vs. placebo's 5%) in this study with a sample size of 537 [6] (rxlist, 2011)
C2. While methylphenidate, when given to 234 children aged 5-15, and with ADHD, the odds of headaches being reported was 0.46 (46%), however, since the confidence interval of 0.95 is (0.23,0.84) it is unclear the odds of anxiety from methylphenidate. [7](Ahmann et al., 1992)

So, I wouldn't worry about the anxiety so much. It is either unlikely or unclear the probability of it happening. Therefore, IMO, a worry about either causing anxiety isn't a strong enough arguement to justify taking one or the other.

D. Burpropion has a antagonistic action on the a3B4 of 53% and some action on a3B2 nicotinic and a1 nicotinic as a antagonist but of much lower potency than it's actions on a3b4 nicotinic receptors [3](Horst, 1998)

E. IMO, there is not a significant enough interaction between piracetam and bupropion interfering with piracetams nootropic effects because, piracetam is much more likely to work via
1.) Binding the the Glu2 and Glu3 subunits of the AMPA receptors (Ahmed AH, 2010)
2,) Increasing mitrochondrial membrane fludity in aged rats (Eckert GP, 1999)
and
3.) regulating circulating levels of corticosterone and aldosterone (Mondadori, 1989)

[1] http://www.neurology...0/2_Suppl_1/S43
[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23456493
[3] Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience (2nd ed) (2009, Malenka RC et al.) McGraw-Hillmedical p.318
[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10333980
[5] http://pdsp.med.unc.edu/pdsp.php
[6] http://www.rxlist.co...precautions.htm
[7] http://pediatrics.aa...ntent/91/6/1101
[8] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20163115
[9] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10907734
[10] http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2765169

Hope that is helpful; and, I apologize for any ambiguities as I am typing this 2 hours after taking 300 mg of diphenhdramine (12 benadyrl) to explore theoretical effects of muscarinitic antagonism mediated rapid actions on mTORC1. and how mTORC1 interactions on the brain's cellular & molecular cascade of events.

[freepie]

1. Neither methylphenidate nor bupropion do much for having less anxiety directly.
2. Since rmethylphenidate is used for narcolepsy, and is "considered effective in increasing wakefulness, vigilance, and performance"** (** the sample consisted of people with narcolepsy. Therefore, it is less clear if someone without narcolespy would have the same level of improvement on these variables.) [1]( Fry, 1998) However, dexamphetamine,and bupropion have the ability to "increase stamina and endurance" [2[( Roeland B & de Koning J et al.)
3. Both ritalin and burpropion can slightly improve motivation and memory when at therapeutic dosages. However, Ritalin might be stronger. [3](Malenka et al., 2009)

A. Bupropion is a stronger inhibitor of Dopamine uptake than Norepinephrine uptake (100% vs. 27) *Bupropion has a metabolite called "S,S- Hydroxy bupropion that has a NE uptake of 106% in rats and, I am not sure if this plays a significant role. [4](Horst WD, 1998)

B. Methylphenidate has a much higher binding profile for DAT (Ki:41} vs for NET (Ki:345.1) [5](Roth&Driscol, 2011)

C1. Bupropion at 150-300 as XR has a Anxiety occurance of 7% (Vs. placebo's 5%) in this study with a sample size of 537 [6] (rxlist, 2011)
C2. While methylphenidate, when given to 234 children aged 5-15, and with ADHD, the odds of headaches being reported was 0.46 (46%), however, since the confidence interval of 0.95 is (0.23,0.84) it is unclear the odds of anxiety from methylphenidate. [7](Ahmann et al., 1992)

So, I wouldn't worry about the anxiety so much. It is either unlikely or unclear the probability of it happening. Therefore, IMO, a worry about either causing anxiety isn't a strong enough arguement to justify taking one or the other.

D. Burpropion has a antagonistic action on the a3B4 of 53% and some action on a3B2 nicotinic and a1 nicotinic as a antagonist but of much lower potency than it's actions on a3b4 nicotinic receptors [3](Horst, 1998)

E. IMO, there is not a significant enough interaction between piracetam and bupropion interfering with piracetams nootropic effects because, piracetam is much more likely to work via
1.) Binding the the Glu2 and Glu3 subunits of the AMPA receptors (Ahmed AH, 2010)
2,) Increasing mitrochondrial membrane fludity in aged rats (Eckert GP, 1999)
and
3.) regulating circulating levels of corticosterone and aldosterone (Mondadori, 1989)

[1] http://www.neurology...0/2_Suppl_1/S43
[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23456493
[3] Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience (2nd ed) (2009, Malenka RC et al.) McGraw-Hillmedical p.318
[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10333980
[5] http://pdsp.med.unc.edu/pdsp.php
[6] http://www.rxlist.co...precautions.htm
[7] http://pediatrics.aa...ntent/91/6/1101
[8] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20163115
[9] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10907734
[10] http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2765169

Hope that is helpful; and, I apologize for any ambiguities as I am typing this 2 hours after taking 300 mg of diphenhdramine (12 benadyrl) to explore theoretical effects of muscarinitic antagonism mediated rapid actions on mTORC1. and how mTORC1 interactions on the brain's cellular & molecular cascade of events.

Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to post this information!! I appreciate it very much!

[ZHMike]

I would say for less fatigue and sustained motivation Ritalin would be much more useful, the downside of that would be that Ritalin could increase anxiety a bit.