10 replies to this topic

[twistednerve]

Hi. I started taking bacopa monnieri 3 days ago. I noticed a strong sedation on the first dose, and that still happens... It also paradoxically caused mild anxiety. As I keep taking, both the sedation and anxiety are getting stronger. I dont know if its just anxiety, either. Seems like some nasty agitation i've gotten before from some meds. Symptoms are: Racy thoughts, fast breathing, tense muscles, increased bad memories popping in my head, lots of irritabiliry and anger.
I'm wondering if this is hypomania, as I suspect I might get hypomania from certain substances, since I might be in the BP spectrum.


I took some 5-htp and the agitation seems to be clearing btw. Oddly so did the sedation.


Does anyone else get this effect from bacopa? Should it clear with regular use?

[ron45]

Hello. this is a good example of biochemical individuality. I take that stuff it does'nt do much of anything for me AFAI can tell. It inhibits an enzyme that eats up choline... it didn't say how much or what kind of choline, and it increases blood flow in the brain.

It's good to mention how much you are taking and how often. That might help some of the better informed people who hang our here occasionally to come up with a better answer.

Ron

[twistednerve]

Hello. this is a good example of biochemical individuality. I take that stuff it does'nt do much of anything for me AFAI can tell. It inhibits an enzyme that eats up choline... it didn't say how much or what kind of choline, and it increases blood flow in the brain.

It's good to mention how much you are taking and how often. That might help some of the better informed people who hang our here occasionally to come up with a better answer.

Ron

Around 400mg every morning.

[Godof Smallthings]

As Ron45 said, those symptoms are indicative of excess acetylcholine - bacopa monnieri contains an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, which is one of the chief reasons for its nootropic effect. But as you are noticing, whether an increase in choline will be beneficial or not depends on your individual neurochemistry.

Skip one day first to clear your head. Then cut back the dose to 250 mg, and take it in the evening instead of in the morning. Maybe that will help. If not, then just discontinue it.

Oh - one thing - in my personal experience, coffee and acetylcholine esterase inhibitors tend to not play nice with each other. Cutting down on your caffeine might be a good idea, too.

The worst combo for me is centella asiatica and coffee. Palpitations, head pressure and general unpleasantness.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 04 April 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[twistednerve]

As Ron45 said, those symptoms are indicative of excess acetylcholine - bacopa monnieri contains an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, which is one of the chief reasons for its nootropic effect. But as you are noticing, whether an increase in choline will be beneficial or not depends on your individual neurochemistry.

Skip one day first to clear your head. Then cut back the dose to 250 mg, and take it in the evening instead of in the morning. Maybe that will help. If not, then just discontinue it.

Oh - one thing - in my personal experience, coffee and acetylcholine esterase inhibitors tend to not play nice with each other. Cutting down on your caffeine might be a good idea, too.

The worst combo for me is centella asiatica and coffee. Palpitations, head pressure and general unpleasantness.

Yeah, feeling much better without phosphatidyl choline and bacopa. I won't mix those two in the future, that's for sure. Oddly, just p. choline was great during the first two days, then it felt like I wasn't taking anything anymore. Maybe I'll just use choline on special days reserved for tests or serious studying, and bacopa at a VERY moderate dosage under 100mg daily... but in the future.

I think bacopa and caffeine, or any sort of stimulant, would be terrible for me, too.

Odd how most supplements and plant extracts work better without being taken every day, unline most medications. Anyone know if bacopa works being taken just every now and then?

[Godof Smallthings]

So you took supplemental phosphatidyl choline AND bacopa at the same time? In that case, it may be enough to just drop the phosphatidyl choline first.

By the way, if you have not found it yet, examine.com is a very handy guide to supplements and their studied effects.

[twistednerve]

So you took supplemental phosphatidyl choline AND bacopa at the same time? In that case, it may be enough to just drop the phosphatidyl choline first.

By the way, if you have not found it yet, examine.com is a very handy guide to supplements and their studied effects.

Yeah, at the same time. Going to give a week, then will try just low bacopa dose.

I've read examine.com's entry and many others. Nobody fot manicky on Bacopa besides me. :/

[bzyb]

 

Around 400mg every morning.

 

 

Ive taken bacopa a couple times, but my side effect is more gastrointestinal but I've always had that issues.  Did you take it sublingually, I think that was my problem, probably best to take orally.  What you experienced, I am wondering if it is hypomania? I've had similar symptoms usually when taken multiple things sublingually like noopept and bacopa.  I take l-trytophan to calm me down since it crosses bbb rather than 5-htp which I have never tried.  There are many other herbal anxiolytics to try (ashwaganda, rhodiala, etc), so yeah maybe cycle or use bacopa sparingly.

 

As Ron45 said, those symptoms are indicative of excess acetylcholine - bacopa monnieri contains an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, which is one of the chief reasons for its nootropic effect. But as you are noticing, whether an increase in choline will be beneficial or not depends on your individual neurochemistry.

Skip one day first to clear your head. Then cut back the dose to 250 mg, and take it in the evening instead of in the morning. Maybe that will help. If not, then just discontinue it.

Oh - one thing - in my personal experience, coffee and acetylcholine esterase inhibitors tend to not play nice with each other. Cutting down on your caffeine might be a good idea, too.

The worst combo for me is centella asiatica and coffee. Palpitations, head pressure and general unpleasantness.

I took the bravermen and it says I have high acetylcholine and low gaba which might cause my occasional anxiety.  Makes sense since sometimes I think or feel too much. I haven't drinken coffee in a while, though take some stimulants for ADD.  What to do about excess acetycholine, take racetams to burn them?

[stan08]

 Around 400mg every morning.
 

 
Ive taken bacopa a couple times, but my side effect is more gastrointestinal but I've always had that issues.  Did you take it sublingually, I think that was my problem, probably best to take orally.  What you experienced, I am wondering if it is hypomania? I've had similar symptoms usually when taken multiple things sublingually like noopept and bacopa.  I take l-trytophan to calm me down since it crosses bbb rather than 5-htp which I have never tried.  There are many other herbal anxiolytics to try (ashwaganda, rhodiala, etc), so yeah maybe cycle or use bacopa sparingly.
 

As Ron45 said, those symptoms are indicative of excess acetylcholine - bacopa monnieri contains an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor, which is one of the chief reasons for its nootropic effect. But as you are noticing, whether an increase in choline will be beneficial or not depends on your individual neurochemistry.

Skip one day first to clear your head. Then cut back the dose to 250 mg, and take it in the evening instead of in the morning. Maybe that will help. If not, then just discontinue it.

Oh - one thing - in my personal experience, coffee and acetylcholine esterase inhibitors tend to not play nice with each other. Cutting down on your caffeine might be a good idea, too.

The worst combo for me is centella asiatica and coffee. Palpitations, head pressure and general unpleasantness.

I took the bravermen and it says I have high acetylcholine and low gaba which might cause my occasional anxiety.  Makes sense since sometimes I think or feel too much. I haven't drinken coffee in a while, though take some stimulants for ADD.  What to do about excess acetycholine, take racetams to burn them?

I've been wondering the same thing as anytime I take an acetylcholine precursor or inhibitor (including alcar) I get bad headaches and neck tension. Recently had a bad reaction when I increased my alcar dose to 2 g. For about a day I had a terrible headache and was vomiting constantly. Needless to say I've since dropped the alcar.

[twistednerve]

I've been using just phosphatidyl choline and having good results. Bacopa is just too strong for me.

Wonder if I should give alcar a try. Have 75g unopened.

[bzyb]

I've been wondering the same thing as anytime I take an acetylcholine precursor or inhibitor (including alcar) I get bad headaches and neck tension. Recently had a bad reaction when I increased my alcar dose to 2 g. For about a day I had a terrible headache and was vomiting constantly. Needless to say I've since dropped the alcar.

 

 

With high acetylcholine, I never really get headaches, moreso anxiety or exciteability.  Bacopa can be strong too, so I only take it alone sometimes, and it helps with sleep and dreaming a bit as do most noots that inhibit acetlycholine.  As far as alcar I only take it as part of the Ciltep stack (to balance out forskolin + artichoke), though may try to take it as a pre-drinking stack.  If alcar doesn't work for you and you need more choline, there are other forms like bitrate and alpha gpc.  Also eggs and uridine which have less sides and are quite healthy for you.  

 

I am still trying to learn as much as I can about how to balance acetylcholine before I try stronger noots like Huperzine-A or galamantine which inhibit acetylcholine as well. 

Edited by bzyb, 15 April 2014 - 12:10 AM.