6 replies to this topic

[Major Legend]

They both cause me brain fog, tiredness and lethargy (but ironically not sleepiness) beyond anything I have ever experienced in my otherwise very large experience of many nootropics, supplements and pharmaceuticals , making me feel like a zombie yet they are both almost legendary supplements for cognitive health in both performance and repair...what might they be doing to me that's causes those effects? Is it okay to take it for sleep?

Edited by Major Legend, 07 June 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[chris7900]

hello,

i've had the same experience with bacopa + ashwaghada in the past, so i stopped it.

 

without going to much into detail, my personal guessing is that, they slow down ,your and my brain-system.

both have pro gaba effects.

bacopa is upregulating gabareceptors, and ashwaghada is agonizing gaba receptors. gaba is a "brake" neurotransmitter.

also bacopa has pro serotorgenic activity. which also is kind of a brake.

so the system goes into full stop if you don'T press enough on the gas pedal.

the gas pedal is the dopamin system and the acetylcholine system.

so to solve the issue i personaly simply supported my dopamin and cholin system with, tyrosin, dlpa, cdp choline, weight lifting and aerobic exersice like jogging.

i also take deprenyl cause i had a serious problem with my dopamin.

i started taking bacopa + ashwaghada a few days ago again, and everything seems realy good till now.

 

based on the logic i stated you could either up your dopamin and choline system or choose just one of the two. and see what fits you best.

 

of corse there is much more going on with this two components but i guess thats the juice of the situation.

 

i'm a newbie and i answered just based on experience, i don't know if its right or wrong what i stated.

 

lets see what other members will post

 

edit: i just remembered another part of the puzzle.

ashwaghada is upregulating thyroid (t4 if im not mistaken) production.

bacosides A also upregulate thyroid production if needed, and bacosides B downregulate thyroid production if needed.

it is stated in various websites that ashwaghada regulates thyroid hormones in both  hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism.

so probably there is complication in the thyroid hormones if this two herbs are combined.

 

 

Edited by chris7900, 07 June 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[Raza]

They both lower cortisol, which will do those things when it starts out on the lower end of healthy.

 

Taking them before bed should be fine. I take ashwagandha that way regularly, and it improves sleep. Less experience with bacopa, but I looked it up and concluded it should be fine a short while ago.

 

And perhaps get your cortisol and DHEA tested? That's a great way to see where you stand on adrenal function. Low baseline cortisol could be healthy, or it could be problematic.

[Gerrans]

I have never taken bacopa (next on my list), but I take ashwagandha and rhodiola, and they seem to go well together, because the rhodiola seems to counter any lulling quality in the ashwagandha--but I take them every other day, and I split my two ashwagandhas between breakfast and evening. I cannot say that ashwagandha helps me get to sleep, but it helps make me feel relaxed towards bedtime, anyway.

 

I like these two herbs, but I have either had nil or negative effects from most herbs I have tried. I think it is a matter of finding herbs whose adaptogenic effects suit one's individual chemistry; so it could be that these herbs, or this combination of them, is not for you.

 

Edited by Gerrans, 11 June 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[lourdaud]

They both lower cortisol, which will do those things when it starts out on the lower end of healthy.

 

Taking them before bed should be fine. I take ashwagandha that way regularly, and it improves sleep. Less experience with bacopa, but I looked it up and concluded it should be fine a short while ago.

 

And perhaps get your cortisol and DHEA tested? That's a great way to see where you stand on adrenal function. Low baseline cortisol could be healthy, or it could be problematic.

 

Do they lower cortisol chronically? 

[Raza]

Over the course of weeks, possibly indefinitely so long as you keep taking them. The studies on these things only lasted so long, of course.

[Strelok]

Ashwagandha's effects on me have been positive yet subtle.  It seems to reduce cortisol, or the feeling of being "stressed."  It also seems to help slightly with sleep, so I typically take it in the evening/night or right before bed.  I have used both sensoril and ksm-66 extracts.  There didn't seem to be much difference, except that, perhaps, the sensoril was more powerful at reducing cortisol.  I'll have to finish my current ksm-66 and retry the sensoril to be sure of this.

 

I never noticed much benefit from Bacopa, even though I took a daily dose on the larger end of the spectrum for about 5 months.  I ensured I got enough bacosides to meet what was demonstrably effective in the studies.  Toward the end of the 5 months, probably the last 2 months, Bacopa seemed to steadily worsen my sleep.  I started to wake up more often throughout the night, and spent less of the night in the deep, restorative phase that my body and mind crave.  Since ceasing bacopa use about a month ago, my sleep seems to be slowly recovering.  I suspect it'll still take a month or two for my sleep to return to normal.  There was another poster on this forum who used an app on his cell phone to analyze his sleep patterns, and how much time was spent in deep sleep.  The app indicated that his deep sleep was disrupted when using bacopa.  For these reasons, I don't recommend bacopa to people anymore.  I know full well that it may not have this effect on many people, so don't interpret my post as a smear campaign against bacopa.  Just know that it may or may not have the benefial affect on you that it has on other individuals.