29 replies to this topic

[Agomelatinehope]

Hi. I've been to several doctors and no one really knows why is this happening to me. For the last 2 years I haven't been able to rest. I mean, I can sleep but I always wake up feeling unrested, with headache and a flu-like feeling.

I can't be functional this way and it's very frustrating.

 

My Dr has put me on Antidepressants (I'm on Duloxetine right now) since he thinks it may be related with Anxiety but it hasn't  helped at all. In fact I think it's making things worse.

 

I asked my Dr about Sleep Apnea but he told me that due to the size and morphology of my throat that is out of the question.

 

My Dr treats me as if I were a bit crazy telling me things like "That is just the way you are, you must not be so hard on yourself" and that kind of stuff. What the hell, I just want to be relatively functional again.

 

I just want to mention that I don't take tranquilizers (benzodiazepines). I did in the past but I reached tolerance and dependence so I withdrawn from them and it's been 18 months since my last dose of lorazepam.

 

I've tried a lot of Natural things like Melatonin, Valerian, and antihistamines like Doxylamine. Non of them did a thing for my problem, they just make the hangover worse. I have also tried triciclics like Amitryptiline or Mirtazapine

 

 

I'm an unemployed man. 29 yo, 74kg, good health.

 

I currently don't have any hobbies since my lack of energy doesn't allow me to have any. I don't feel like doing anything anyway. My foggy mind can't really handle or enjoy anything

 

Thank you so much

[Bonee]

you should really try out modafinil, a lot of time I feel the same as you, I can't feel rested after sleep... then I pop100-200mg modafinil and I can function again ^^

also try some cardio based training before sleep.

[pro-v]

Go to a sleep specialist and get another opinion. I had similar issues, was dx with excessive daytime sleepiness and tried provigil, nuvigil and ritalin. Ritalin works the best and wears off sooner, which allows me to go to sleep sooner.

[Duchykins]

Get another opinion. The morning headaches are a common symptom of sleep apnea or hypopnea. Slow and shallow breathing doesn't have to be caused by your pipe collapsing. Anxiety/stress alone can do that, among other things. Did they check your thyroid and adrenals? Your vitamin D, B12? At least those would help eliminate possible causes.

There is no substitute for sleep so the daytime stimulants would just mask your exhaustion while you actually continue to deteriorate from lack of healthful sleep.

[Tom_]

Stimulants are out of the question, until you have a diagnosis. Duchykins hit it right on the head. Taking stimulants in the presense of some sleeping disorders can be totally disastorous.

 

Morning headaches are an indicator of a sleep related breathing disorder. There are other disorders beyound just sleep hypo/apnea related to breathing such as upper airways resistance syndrome. Taking into account your age and weight, it is unlikely that you have a sleep related breathing disorder but it is certainly possible.

 

Your doctor was right to trial you on antidepressants as the most common cause of sleep problems in someone your age is depression.

A bunch of questions you can answer to give us a better idea of whats going on (then I can give you a treatment and diagnositic plan I would want to follow in your suituation).

Male I assume?
Age, weight, height?

Current medical diagnoses (including psychiatric) whether you agree with them or not?
Current medications (doses, what time you take them, why you take them)

How would you rate your mood? 1-10. 10 being so excited you cant sit still and 1 being the worst you can feel.
Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental health condition other than the current diagnosis of anxiety?
Is there a family history of mental health problems. If so what?
Is there a family history of sleep problems?

A family history of any other medical problems?
Have you had a recent blood test (within the last six months)? What did it test?
What psychiatric drugs have you tried and at what dose?
Do you abuse drugs? If so, what, how often and at what dose? (Include alchole)
Do you smoke, if so how many? How much tar and nicotine in each cig?
Have you recently quit smoking?
How long has your sleep problem been happening?
Why are you unemployed?
Do you feel anxious regualy?
Have you ever deliberately harmed yourself or attempted suicide?

Has anyone in your close family?
How many hours do you sleep on average?
Do you sleep near anyone? If so do they ever complain of you snoring, choking or gurgerling during sleep?

Do you often wake up at night (except to go to the loo or get a drink)? If so how often and for how long?
Where is the pain in your head in the morning (back, front, one side?), is the pain sharp dull thudding?
Do you ever find things have moved round the house while you were asleep or found yourself out of bed?
Do you nap during the day? If so how often and for how long? Can you fight the nap or do you have to fall asleep?

Are you tired (feeling sleepy) or fatigued (low energy, motivation) or during the day?
Have you recently put on weight?

Do you know your blood pressure?
Ever had any thoughts of suicide or deliberate self harm?

I might have some follow up questions and questionnaires for you to fill out. You are more than welcome to send this to my inbox if you don't want to post this information for people to see.

 

 

[redFishBlueFish]

General doctors piss me off so bad. Well it's a, b, c, but I am not specialized in a, b, c. Ok derp....

 

As someone that has been through it all, go to a sleep doctor. They hook you up and monitor you through the night. They can give you the answer you are looking for. Maybe you need drugs, maybe you have sleep apnea, maybe you have something else. Go see a sleep doctor.

[Flex]

Try to change Your Doc.

 I mean not entirely but , in those cases its allways better to get a second opinion.

 

As somebody allready mentioned it, I would go to a "Sleep Lab"

At least here in Germany those labs exist.

 

Your Doc perscribes You to them and You sleep one night there.

During the Night, they notice everything about you like: Heartbeat, Breath etc.

 

I guess those are supposedly sleep medicine labs :

http://mydoctor.kais...s/sleep_med.jsp

http://sleep.stanford.edu/

 

Edited by Flex, 03 August 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[Agomelatinehope]

Hi, thanks for your replies

 

I visited a new Dr. and he told me that due to my Psychiatric Background (Depression, Anxiety), The sleep symptoms I describe, My throat phisiology and my age it's almost impossible for me to have apnea. He treated me as if I were hypocondriac. It's a bit frustrating. 

 

He says my poor sleep is linked to depression and anxiety and that I should stick with ADs. 

 

Aboout the questions you asked:

 

Male I assume? Yes
Age, weight, height? 29, 74kg, 1.74m

Current medical diagnoses (including psychiatric) whether you agree with them or not? GAD
Current medications (doses, what time you take them, why you take them) Cymbalta in the morning. Lowers anxiety levels. 

How would you rate your mood? 1-10. 10 being so excited you cant sit still and 1 being the worst you can feel. 3
Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental health condition other than the current diagnosis of anxiety? Yes, depression
Is there a family history of mental health problems. If so what? Yes, depression and anxiety
Is there a family history of sleep problems? Yes, my father has Sleep Apnea and Hypersomnia. His sister has chronic insomnia

A family history of any other medical problems? No. 
Have you had a recent blood test (within the last six months)? What did it test? No. I had one last year. Everything OK. 
What psychiatric drugs have you tried and at what dose? Almost every single SSRI, Cymbalta, Mirtazapine, Trazodone, some TCAs, etc
Do you abuse drugs? If so, what, how often and at what dose? (Include alchole) I did in the past (Hashish)  daily during my teenage years. 
Do you smoke, if so how many? How much tar and nicotine in each cig? No
Have you recently quit smoking? No
How long has your sleep problem been happening? Last 6 years
Why are you unemployed? Bad career choice, unability to handle stress. 
Do you feel anxious regualy? Yes
Have you ever deliberately harmed yourself or attempted suicide? Once when I was little

Has anyone in your close family? No
How many hours do you sleep on average? 5-6
Do you sleep near anyone? If so do they ever complain of you snoring, choking or gurgerling during sleep? No, but I do snore a little

Do you often wake up at night (except to go to the loo or get a drink)? If so how often and for how long? Yes, about 3-4 times a night
Where is the pain in your head in the morning (back, front, one side?), is the pain sharp dull thudding? Front, sharp pain. 
Do you ever find things have moved round the house while you were asleep or found yourself out of bed? No
Do you nap during the day? If so how often and for how long? Can you fight the nap or do you have to fall asleep? No. I don't nap

Are you tired (feeling sleepy) or fatigued (low energy, motivation) or during the day? Yes, Always tired and fatigued
Have you recently put on weight? The opposite, due to Cymbalta. Lost a couple of kg

Do you know your blood pressure? Yes, it's OK- 
Ever had any thoughts of suicide or deliberate self harm? Yes

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 11 August 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Dichotohmy]

Unrefreshing sleep is a beast: doctors don't understand the pathology and assume one is a hypochondriac, there are probably 100 possible explanations to the problem, and unrefreshing sleep in general takes a terrible toll on the body and mind over the long term.

 

I would press the doctors in my health-insurance network for a referral to a polysomnogram (sleep study), because unrefreshing sleep isn't normal, and refuse to accept a psychological explanation unless the results show idiopathic hypersomnia or some other equally bullshit and dismissing diagnosis. In lieu of that, paying out of pocket for a polysomnogram costs around $1500-$3000 in the US, so I'd imagine it isn't cheap in Europe either. Even if the polysomnogram doesn't reveal sleep-disordered breathing or other definitive explanation, having a sleep study under your belt will give you more leverage to get a prescription for something like provigil/modafinil to combat the symptoms of unrefreshing sleep. 

 

However, if you really want to treat the unrefreshing sleep instead of the symptoms, be prepared for a long journey (likely with no professional help) of research and trying lots and lots of measures.

[Agomelatinehope]

Hi again, thanks for your replies

 

My Dr. has prescribed me Lyrica (Pregabalin) 25mg. and told me to take 25mg every night for sleep. She says it's "what they prescribe for benzo withdrawal" so it should help me to get a better sleep.

 

I'm a bit scared of taking anything for sleep since I had so much problems with benzos but I'm so desperate to have a good night's sleep that I'll try tonight

[HoldingTheFaith]

For the record, a sleep study will not help in my experience and it was the worst night of my life by far. To get said that you have anxiety and depression and poor quality sleep is not worth sleeping 2 hours with a shitload of wirings and stuff on your head and body. I looked like I had a bit of an anaphylactic shock in the morning, my fave was all swollen and ugly from lack of sleep. Coincidentally the kid on the other sleep study room didn´t sleep either. Ah and I had glue on my scalp for days despite furious cleaning.

 

Is not a bad idea per se, but is useless and downright detrimental if you do not have sleep apnea. Most of doctors can hardly help with anything else than that. Unrefreshing sleep is the kind of thing normal doctors are absolutely useless and depressing with, I´ve been to many. Sadly you are better off trying random supplements and therapies on your own, unles you know some really empathic and knowledgeable allopathic or alternative "healer" of some sort. Both types have failed me over the years repeatedly. Also the few sleep drugs I have been prescribed give very scary side effects, even Trazadone gave me throat pain for a week...

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 19 October 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[juverulez]

What isyour posture like? Forward head posture by any chance?

[explr9]

I've had sleep studies, confirmed a form of apnea, and had surgery to correct it: my nasal passages had to be opened way up. That helped a lot but I still have some problems with restorative sleep. There are sooooooooooooooooooo many factors involved in a good nights sleep. I had terrible insomnia for 15+ years. now its managable at least. I have recently been looking into the relationship of core body temperature with circadian rhythms and slow wave sleep (stage 3/4 sleep). So far, interesting research; glycine is supposed to help lower core body temp. I just ordered the "cool fat burner" from the same-named website. That site has some good info on core body temp and sleep. If the ice vest works, I'll post here. 

 

One reason I think it might work is that over the years, when the insomnia was worst, I generally felt like I was over heating, even put an ice pack on my head at times.

 

But I would find a good sleep specialist. A good one. As others have said, the average 'sleep specialist' only treats regular apnea. I had to go to stanford to get my diagnosis. Even then, it was still another year+ to get the surgery... 

Edited by explr9, 27 October 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[Dichotohmy]

I've had sleep studies, confirmed a form of apnea, and had surgery to correct it: my nasal passages had to be opened way up. That helped a lot but I still have some problems with restorative sleep. There are sooooooooooooooooooo many factors involved in a good nights sleep. I had terrible insomnia for 15+ years. now its managable at least. I have recently been looking into the relationship of core body temperature with circadian rhythms and slow wave sleep (stage 3/4 sleep). So far, interesting research; glycine is supposed to help lower core body temp. I just ordered the "cool fat burner" from the same-named website. That site has some good info on core body temp and sleep. If the ice vest works, I'll post here. 

 

 

Sounds like you're describing UARS here, which may be associated with an overactive sympathetic nervous system. IE the brain is constantly en garde, whether it be from the stress of continuously poor sleep, or some other factor, and thus over-reacts to minor disturbance in breathing by shifting itself out of stage 3/4 and REM sleep. I suspect I may have UARS myself, due to an AHI around 10 on my sleep study and limited ability to breathe through my nose, but I almost want it to be anything else than this because I know there's no way in hell I could tolerate sleeping with xPAP on my face and I'm hesitant to persue surgery.

 

Hormones, body temperature, and circardian rhythms are certainly worth looking into. For the record, I have a consistently low body temperature (97.1-ish) and never, ever feel hot. Quite the contrary, actually. Leptin and the digestive cycle are yet another association between the circadian rhythm and ultimately deep sleep, although I've had no luck adjusting my eating times to an optimal schedule for this hormone.

 

It bears repeating without a definitive, treatable diagnosis, you are on your own to treat your unrefreshing sleep and should be prepared to try anything. Good luck on the body cooling experiment.

Edited by Dichotohmy, 27 October 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[HoldingTheFaith]

Glycibe 3 grams is promising and is in my future trial stack. Lecithin apparently has made my sleep slightly more refreshing if taken at mornings, at night worsens sleep fragmentation by giving you excessuve dreaming (includibg nightmares) Acetylcholine is just a factor in sleep, but I like the idea of coveribg all fronts. For intestinal inflammation I have found propolis to be awesome, I say this because inflammation and unrefreshing sleep seem to be related.

[explr9]

 

Dichotohmy, UARS was exactly the diagnosis I got from stanford. I managed to sleep well in the stanford lab with a cPAP for one night, but could not tolerate it after that. Two different machines/$5000. But of course I couldn’t use it: the obstruction was in the nasal passage and most cpap masks are nasally fitted; this only agitated me while trying to sleep. The mouth masks attempt to establish an un-natural airway (unnatural at night) thru the mouth.

 

I had lived with bad insomnia for 15 years so when I heard about a ENT surgeon that had helped my  niece sleep better, I jumped at the chance. Recovery was a little slow. It took about 4 months for me to notice any difference, but then all of a sudden I was sleeping better and wheened off meds from that point on.

 

I did not know that UARS was associated with SYM excess. That is the rubric (SYM excess) I’ve been working with for the past few months. Blood test have shown low phenylalinine, dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine – symptomatic of long term SYM excess. As well as low GABA, symptomatic of long term parasympathetic drain. And a cortisol cycle that seems to be 90 degrees out of phase– high at noon instead of in the morning.

 

I’m taking a host of aminos to correct these imbalances.

 

Also– magnesium kept coming up low despite high dose supplementing with Magnesium Malate.  This inability to maintain magnesium levels was another negative loop-effect from over active sympathetic ANS.

 

Solution? Intravenous magnesium sulfate. This has helped a LOT. I found a naturopathic clinic near me that does all kinds of IV therapy. Its in a shi-shi part of town so I guess its now fashionable to get topped off with aminos, b12, meyers push, etc.

[explr9]

Holdingthefaith, Thomas Yuschak did extensive research into utilizing supplements to facilitate lucid dreaming . He published a few papers and books in the 1990’s and then just disappeared. He had some great things to say about neurotransmitters and sleep.

 

Oversimplifying: 

Slow wave sleep is governed by serotonin.

REM sleep is basically governed by acetylcholine. 

 

Mr Yuschak found that his best lucid dreaming happened only when he was able to get really good sleep first. So he broke his nights up into two basic phases. 

 

The first half of the night his supplements favored serotonin boosting to support slow wave sleep: 5htp and melatonin. These actually suppress REM sleep, favoring Slow wave sleep. 

 

Then he would wake up after 6 hours of deep sleep and supplement with acetylcholine boosters including galantamine, cdp, alphagpc, nicotine, choline bitartrate and others to trigger lucid dreams. He found that boosting acytlcholine any earlier compromised slow wave sleep.

 

Then, after awakening in the morning, he would use piracetam to clear the cholinergics out of his system (oversimplifying) so that he could sleep well the following night. 

 

I don’t have robust enough sleep to get up in the middle of the night like he did, but I have found his general principals to be useful for me.  I don’t take cholinergics late in the day. Occasionally, a big dose of piracetam in the early afternoon results in better sleep. I have learned to distinguish the effects and benefits of deep sleep vs REM sleep. Slow wave sleep restores the body, REM sleep clears the mind and consolidates memory.

 

He also talked about using 5thp only at the beginning of the night. If he was having a problem returning to sleep in the 2nd half of the night, he used theanine or low dose melatonin so as not to impair the REM portion of his sleep phase.

 

Yuschak mentions B6 briefly, but I have noticed that taking sufficient B6 / p5p early in the day helps the REM phase. Too late in the day and it disrupts sleep onset.

 

I strongly recommend looking up Thomas Yuschak on google.  I was able to find a bunch of his papers and book/pdf a few years ago. Fascinating & useful. The guy was an engineer and has dosing and half-life charts for all of his trials.

 

https://www.google.c...hrome&ie=UTF-8#

 

 

[HoldingTheFaith]

All very interesting and useful explr9! I think I am being silly here now, because I feel like I have too much REM and I am boosting it with lecithin. I have noticed I display excessive dreaming even without supplements, which is a hallmark of depression and also some ADD (earlier onset and longer duration of REM, essentially is nightime rehashing and rumination).

 

However, melatonin gives me the same or more vivid dreams that lecithin at night does. I am talking about 6 mg sublingual. Crazy adventures at night I tell you. So I am not sure if the serotonin/acetylcholine and dreaming theory is the whole picture.

 

I will be trialling Tryptophan, Bacopa and other serotonergics soon so will see if that hopefully makes my sleep deeper and less of a struggle.

[RJ100]

I struggle with fragmented, non-restful sleep most nights. Melatonin doesn't help me at all. Magnesium sometimes helps, sometimes has no effect. (btw never take magnesium aspartate before bed if you have NMDA issues....horrible)

 

Anyway, I should probably get a sleep study done. Can anyone recommend one?

[drg]

just at a sleep doctors... apparently I only get phase 1 and 2 sleep and no deep sleep/ REM sleep. Also my sleep effeciency is low ect. Based on that they prescribed clonazepam to sleep. 

 

Not a med I really wanted to take but I get desparate and take it when I can't sleep, it works some of the time but I think it is a much better option than like lorazepam or diazepam ect. I will try to take as little as possible because it is somewhat effective.

 

RJ100 Sleep studies are fairly useless, you know you have a sleep problem, you don't need a lab test to confirm it, if you have sleep apnea then maybe it can help otherwise it won't. The sleep doctors then will give you a list of medications you can try for sleep, that you can find online anyways.

Edited by drg, 29 October 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[HoldingTheFaith]

I cannot take diazepam, gave me a panic attack. I guess I am an experiencer of the rare "paradoxical reaction" phenomena.

 

And now I am going to share with y´all what my extensive research on empirical and cientific reports on OTC sleep aids has shown as promising candidates, which I will be trying soon:

 

-3 grams glycine, or two tablespoons of collagen hydrolisate: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22293292 and plenty of anecdotical reports on longecity, reddit and elsewhere.

-Magnesium chelate: Albion Chelates are best. This one doesnt really need credentials being such an essential mineral that our diets are defficient in, but google it, normally improves sleep.

-L-Tryptophan: Good feedback on longecity, study: https://www.thieme-c.../s-2007-1017115

-Suntheanine: http://205.208.160.6..._L-theanine.pdf

-Methylcobalamin: http://www.sciencedi...893133X96000553

-Bacopa: Mixed bag on this, but going to try with l-dopa to counteract antidopaminergic effects. http://www.ijppsjour...Suppl4/2432.pdf Some people use Ashwagandha, didnt do anything for me except increase semen output, and I am only marginally interested in such a thing lol

-Taurine, optizinc: Scarce reports of improved sleep quality, both are available for five dollars so worth a try.

-Unmodified potato starch: Some paleo nuts claim it makes sleep wonderful, sounds like BS but also very inexpensive.

 

Keep in mind that these things probably are not strong on their own to touch severe sleep problems, but taking them together has to yield a noticeable effect at least in some people.

 

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 29 October 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Thew]

Do exercise sometimes. And go out to feel the sunlight.

[HoldingTheFaith]

Do exercise sometimes. And go out to feel the sunlight.

I do that everyday and it does zero for unrefreshing sleep. This is much more serious than what healthy sleepers can conceive and cannot be reduced to a sedentary and reclusive lifestyle. It is actually a sympton of some grievous imbalance or disorder affecting the CNS, the adrenals.. thyroid...

 

Sorry to downvote you, but that is just a cliche answer that will never help anyone with unrefreshing sleep.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 10 November 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[RJ100]

Do exercise sometimes. And go out to feel the sunlight.

 

I wear an activity monitor on my wrist that records & summarizes my caloric expenditure during the day and my sleep quantity/quality at night. There is no meaningful relationship between the two.

Edited by RJ100, 10 November 2014 - 06:44 PM.

[fntms]

What isyour posture like? Forward head posture by any chance?

Any more insight on this? Just curious...

[Dichotohmy]

Anyone else with non-refreshing sleep experience exercise intolerance and post-exertional malaise form exercise, yet can't identify with having a latent infection ala CFS/ME? For instance, the EI and PEM is linked to slow and delayed recovery due to non-refreshing sleep?

 

The physical effects are by far my worst symptom of unrefreshing sleep. I crash 5-10 minutes through a run that I am physically quite capable of, and I get intense muscle inflammation from lifting weights that I am quite physically capable of lifting. Although I can mentally push myself through this for weeks to months of a solid exercise regimine that gives me clear results and an improved well-being, doing so always results in PEM that culminates in joint inflammation, brain inflammation, intense dysphoria, and a whole bunch of other fun effects. I almost can't decide if it's better to not exercise and be physically mediocre, or exercise how I want to and be decrepit like an 80 year old man.

[drg]

I bet I have exercise intolerance/ post exertional malaise.

 

It used to be worse for me though. I couldn't exercise without being a sweating, gasping, chest grabbing mess.

 

Now I just look normal out of shape. After the game all my muscles are still ridiculously sore, I walk like a penguin. I am not hungry at all, just huge sugared drink cravings. And it takes me like 5 days to truly recover my muscles. Like I said it used to be worse. I think my treatment for my mood disorder has actually improved it to the point it is tolerable.

 

The other thing I have noticed is that I cannot think clearly after/during exercise. I can't speak or socialize well either. I think it is related to the problem, just being so completely fatigued and exhausted. But anyways I just ignore that problem because I enjoy playing ball and I don't need to talk or anything to play. 

 

I haven't been lifting weights since I have noticed the improvement though.

 

In the past my lifts were always lowish, but the real problem was my recovery time it took more than 2-3 days even 7 days before I could work the same muscles without making significant decreases in weight.

 

I can't say these physical problems are due to sleep solely... possibly they are... but definately the combination of my sleep / mood disorder. 

 

----

 

Solutions:

 

Well IDK sleep meds are all pretty bad. I am on clonazepam 1-2mg a couple nights a week. Doesn't improve quality but it does get you to sleep and it is lower risk for tolerance.

GHB - increases growth hormone which should help ur muscles repair during the night. Only problem you need to redose partway through the night because it has a short half life. It is the only drug that "improves sleep quality".

Testosterone - band aid solution... but why the hell not (in my wisdom)

[Gerald W. Gaston]

Well IDK sleep meds are all pretty bad. I am on clonazepam 1-2mg a couple nights a week. Doesn't improve quality but it does get you to sleep and it is lower risk for tolerance.

GHB - increases growth hormone which should help ur muscles repair during the night. Only problem you need to redose partway through the night because it has a short half life. It is the only drug that "improves sleep quality".

Testosterone - band aid solution... but why the hell not (in my wisdom)

 

Klonopin (clonazepam) disrupts SWS.... I'm on it and know first hand. The change on my Zeo Sleep Manager was very quick and apparent. My best recorded time is inching up with very strenous exercise and getting to bed early and sleeping longer. I'm a gym rat and pretty muscular now but I believe I would get much better gains if I could get SWS. I have no issues now sleeping (once I finallly can get to sleep) but I if I'm lucky enough to get 7.5hrs I record on the average 2-3hrs REM, and most all the remainder as light sleep. Deep sleep (NREM SWS Stage 3 &4) has only recently improved from 1-2 minutes to avg of 8 minutes (max one night of 12 minutes).  I have an unually condition that keeps me from being able to come off clonazepam yet. I have tried just about every trick in the book outside of GHB which I can't get and really is not a good solution. The best solution will be getting off the clonazepam if possible as far as SWS is concerned in my opinion.

 

[HoldingTheFaith]

No I dont get post exertional malaise. However once I ran 1 hour and a half (12 km) like two months ago, in a "good" period for me, and that night I woke up around 7 times. So that kind of qualifies as post exertional malaise but not in the CFS fashion.

 

Now I just do multiple push ups and run like 10-15 minutes per day. It does make me feel better psychologically, and doesnt affect sleep either positive or negatively.

 

My advice is, some exercise is better than none as long as it doesnt worsen your symptoms. It helps with depression.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 11 November 2014 - 07:52 AM.

[vader]

Get another opinion. The morning headaches are a common symptom of sleep apnea or hypopnea. Slow and shallow breathing doesn't have to be caused by your pipe collapsing. Anxiety/stress alone can do that, among other things. Did they check your thyroid and adrenals? Your vitamin D, B12? At least those would help eliminate possible causes.

There is no substitute for sleep so the daytime stimulants would just mask your exhaustion while you actually continue to deteriorate from lack of healthful sleep.

 

 

I'd wager that for most people headache in the morning and poor sleep would be a sign of CAFFEIN OVERDOSIS. hehe