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Genuine Russian Phenibut vs Dirty Bulk USA Phenibut

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#1 Introspecta

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:39 PM


Longtime Phenibut user, past abuser, been dependent on, been off. I estimate the first time I used Phenibut was 8-9 yrs ago. I used to buy it from 1fast 400. The effects were subtle relaxation combined with an increase in energy and a general sense of well being. Euphoria could be achieved by dosing higher for multiple days causing PEA rebound when Gaba agonism wears off. It was a relatively smooth experience unless dosing over 2 grams for multiple days.

 

Almost all the Phenibut these days seemed to make me extremely tired and give a dirty feeling too it. Even Liftmode's brand who is touted as the best and I'm sorry but I still don't think what they are selling is the orginal Phenibut from back in the day. Supposedly this is R-Phenibut. The same as they prescribe in russia.

 

Around 2008 I estimate the quality went downhill. It went from a super crystalline density to a baby powder type density. People began noticing the difference. It was even found by some that they wern't getting any effects. I never experienced not getting effects but what I did experience was getting a dirty tired feeling and I thought it was due to my body chemistry and using Phenibut off and on for so long that it no longer worked for me.

 

I recently decided to sample the russian Phenibut and it is what I remember. Clearheaded, smooth, relaxed, sociable.. The closest to this quality was back in the day Nutraplanet was selling a Super Phenibut which was a super crystalline. More so than Litmode's HCL. It was smooth and euphoric. They had one batch of it and then the quality returned back to being not so good. Many people can't discern the difference. I can't for the life of me figure out why this has happend. I'm sure there must be some pharmeceutical grade Phenibut around I'm just not sure where. Does anyone know who or where has the best quality?Aside from Liftmode. It should be very fine crystalline. I ordered a bottle from relentless improvement to see if it matches up to the Russian brand.

 

One big thing I must say also is that it is much easier to taper off R-Phenibut. Could also be called Real Phenibut,lol.. I understand many people have had success with Liftmode and other brands but I'm hear to tell you that there is better. Unfortunately the Russian brands cost a shit ton. Why is it easier to taper off? I would speculate it binds stronger to Gaba B and last longer allowing one to dose once a day. This is speculation but I used to taper on and off Phenibut no problem but when using the different quality from Liftmode I found it difficult to taper down. Its somewhat of a mystery to me.

 

Any long term Phenibut users here? I'm talking from back in the 1 fast days when Phenibut first started coming around.

Does anyone think that most of the quality of Phenibut is shit unless you get the pure Pharmaceutical brand. Supposedly this is R-Phenibut rather than racemic though I don't understand why a racemic mixture would cause a difference in effects. If anything I would think you would have to dose higher. I actually found with Liftmode I had to dose extremely low sometimes feeling effects at even 400mgs. It almost seemed stronger in a way but dirtier. I scoured the web looking for people that tried that russian brand then tried some bulk powders but there isn't 1 report. So I'm here to report.


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#2 Introspecta

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:51 PM

One more thing I must add is that I noticed No nootropic effects from Bulk Phenibut like I used to remmeber. Phenibut should be clear headed and increase color perception similiar to Piracetam. Now that I'm using the russian brand I notice Colors are brighter and I feel I've taken a anti anxiety nootropic. Phenibut actually has nootropic qualities but for some reason I never got those effects in the past years from Bulk Phenibut.



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#3 MercuryAX

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:44 AM

I have some LiftMode phenibut from back in 2012 - very heavy and crystalline.  When I took it, I had the same effects that you described on the Russian phenibut.  Took about 1,300 mg.  It was the only dose I've had so far, so maybe that makes a difference.  Basically, it made me realize how much stress I suck up every day without even noticing.  Made me very sociable, as you recount.  

 

However, I did notice in the morning (I had taken it the night before) I had a slight "drunk" feeling to my step.  Not quite as coordinated.  Anybody else experience this?


Edited by MercuryAX, 21 September 2014 - 12:44 AM.


#4 FW900

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:51 AM

You're spot on in terms of identifying the difference. Noofen (the Russian stuff) is the R isomer whereas bulk phenibut is a racemic mixture. R-phenibut is 2x as potent as racemic phenibut.

 

 

Phenibut (3-phenyl-4-aminobutyric acid) is a GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)-mimetic psychotropic drug which is clinically used in its racemic form. The aim of the present study was to compare the effects of racemic phenibut and its optical isomers in pharmacological tests and GABAB receptor binding studies. In pharmacological tests of locomotor activity, antidepressant and pain effects, S-phenibut was inactive in doses up to 500 mg/kg. In contrast, R-phenibut turned out to be two times more potent than racemic phenibut in most of the tests. In the forced swimming test, at a dose of 100 mg/kg only R-phenibut significantly decreased immobility time. Both R-phenibut and racemic phenibut showed analgesic activity in the tail-flick test with R-phenibut being slightly more active. An GABAB receptor-selective antagonist (3-aminopropyl)(diethoxymethyl)phosphinic acid (CGP35348) inhibited the antidepressant and antinociceptive effects of R-phenibut, as well as locomotor depressing activity of R-phenibut in open field test in vivo. The radioligand binding experiments using a selective GABAB receptor antagonist [3H]CGP54626 revealed that affinity constants for racemic phenibut, R-phenibut and reference GABA-mimetic baclofen were 177+/-2, 92+/-3, 6.0+/-1 microM, respectively. We conclude that the pharmacological activity of racemic phenibut relies on R-phenibut and this correlates to the binding affinity of enantiomers of phenibut to the GABAB receptor.

 

 

It sounds like you use it frequently. Perhaps because of this you have diminished effects compared to originally using it. The fact that it is harder for you to taper off a weaker version at a later point in time is what leads me to conclude this.


Edited by FW900, 21 September 2014 - 12:51 AM.

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#5 Introspecta

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 12:56 AM

Supposedly Liftmode has been the closest to the original and they may have had it at times I know the Phenibut FAA def has different effects. Made me extremely tired, groggy with no euphoria when dosing as little as 800 mgs one day.

 

The HCL i had from them was a thicker crystal and the effects were somewhat smoother but not the same as I remember.

 

The liftmode that you have from 2012 is the crystals very fine or is it like thick salt? Recently I had the HCL and it was thick crystals.

 

Even with best quality Phenibut if taken the night before can result in a hangover effect the next day but typically would have one feeling somewhat euphoric, horny and tired which eventually wears off and leaves one full of energy. Its def a strange substance. Its like valium that turns into amphetamine. I'm just on the hunt for the real quality where I can use it for a few days to uplift mood but none of the Phenibut around in the past years has been the same.



#6 Introspecta

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 01:02 PM

Today is the second day dosing Pharmaceutical Phenibut. I just can't even believe the difference in what I'm used to with Bulk Phenibut. I actually woke up feeling good after dosing 1.75 grams throughout the day. It feels clean like neurontin with added nootropic qualities. Too bad I payed 20 dollars for 5 grams of the stuff.



#7 Ben

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:17 PM

This is weird. I thought it was just me.

 

I've always bought my phenibut here:

 

http://supplements.r...nibut-p261.aspx

 

The stuff I had in 2008-9 was just like you said then started to go down hill. What I bought recently is questionable too.

 

This place has ok prices for the real thing (I've bought a few time with no problems):

 

http://www.psypharm....nylbutyric-acid


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#8 Introspecta

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 03:03 PM

FW900 I thought the same thing as you. I thought do to my times of being dependent on it that the effects have changed but it wasn't until I ordered the Russian tablets that I realized that quality is still a problem. I thought it had been solved. I had been off Phenibut for 3 weeks and decided to try a dose to see if it effected. My powder was bought from Liftmode. The dose made me extremely tired with no mood boost, little antianxiety. So I decided to solve this once and for all by trying the Pharmaceutical and just like I thought its effects while being very very similiar have a cleaner feel. Sedation is noticed when my dose past 1.5 grams but it wasn't a dirty annoying sedation. It was more like an intoxicating feel good sedation. Waking up the next day with that semi euphoria, creativity and sense of horniness feeling that I thought had been long gone has been the determining point that the quality is different with the powders. This is all subjective but anyone with a long history of Phenibut use when Bulk Nutrition and 1fast started selling will be able to feel the difference.

 

When you say its harder for me to taper off the weaker version brought you to this conclusion I have to say that I don't find the Bulk Powders to be weaker. In fact they almost seem stronger in a way. The cause more sedation at lower doses. This is why it seems strange to me that the racemic would be that different. If anything it would take much higher doses to feel effects. I think something is going on when they make it. Its the only explanation as to why some is fluffy, some big crystals and some small. The small crystals always produced the better effect. The years I was ordering from Bulk Nutrition the consistency never changed. All of a sudden once it changed the effects changed. People would always bring up tolerance arguments. Vendors would have the product tested and it would come out to be pure but yet the effects didn't feel pure.

 

All I know is that i've been using this stuff for ages and can most definetely tell the difference when I get the "good phenibut". This being only the second time in 5 years. I had given up on it for many years until I read that Liftmode finally had the good stuff again. Unfortunately I had been on baclofen for awhile and when I switched to the Phenibut it didn't feel so nice. I thought it was due to downregulated Gaba B receptors. I suspect now it has to do with the quality being different. I don't want to knock any vendors and say their product is impure because this has been an ongoing problem that had many people stumped. I'd even suspect that if you were to have the pharmaceutical and some of the bulks tested they would test the same but yet the effects are different. If I knew enough about chemistry I might have an idea. Another problem is I can't stop talking and typing. lol. I wasn't recieving these postives with Liftmode brand. I did for a brief few days experience euphoria when combinging Faso and Phenibut but that is a whole different mystery. I concluded that Phenibut FAA was better quality causing that euphoria but when trying it after being off Phenibut for 3 weeks the effects were shit. This all sounds kinda crazy and I'm going to stop now. I'm sure more people will pop up that have noticed some Phenibut makes them tired and feel shit while others give clean effects.



#9 The Brain

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 06:55 PM

So is there anyone supplying the quality you guys are talking about in powdered form?

#10 Introspecta

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 07:37 PM

I'm trying to figure that out. When I get my shipment from Relentless Improvement I'll let you know but it comes in capsules I believe but still way cheaper than 20 bucks for 5 grams. Ebay could potentially be the next best option. I havn't tried all the vendors so I don't know but chances are if your buying from one and its micro crystalline its good. Liftmode is all out of hcl so who knows what their new batch will be like.



#11 normalizing

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 08:16 PM

good thread. thats just one example of shitload of nootropics and other substances being sold as bulk, in cheaper price and higher quantity, but either being completely fake and/or just bad versions of the originals. people should start realizing, you wont be able to get good quality stuff cheap.



#12 Introspecta

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 09:40 PM

This makes me think now that I get little effect from Piracetam I wonder if the quality has changed or if its due to longterm tolerance. I began taking piracetam the same time as Phenibut. I remember the early days of Piracetam and how clear my mind was and how beautiful everything looked. I used Piracetam for many years with good effect but It stopped giving the color enhancing wakefulness promoting effects at some point. Now when I take it, it still works but its def not what it used to be like. Obviously some tolerance should be noted but I really wonder if quality is different. I'll have to try some Pharma Piracetam to see. Phenypiracetam is also another that just seemed to stop working like it orginally did even after taking months off. My first usage of Phenylpiracetam was with Demiurge and the effects were brilliant but tolerance was noted quickly. I'd take a break then go back on it and find the effects to return. I then tried a few different bulks and while they still work its not close to what is was like. I hope my suspicion is wrong with most nootropics but I'm positive Phenibut has different qualities with the worst bringing the most side effects with little enhancement.



#13 Gorthaur

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 02:58 AM

I have been using Primaforce Phenibut recently, and I am not impressed with the quality. I get very groggy, I get a headache sometimes, and there is no euphoria at all. I use phenibut once a week, 1-2 g, and I have never abused it or been dependent. It would be nice to find a better quality product.



#14 gizmobrain

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 12:06 PM

I've got a whole tub of Early 2013 liftmode phenibut. Crystalline structure. Effects last for much too long, and I'm not a fan of it. Just been sitting on the shelf.

#15 focus83

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 08:48 PM

Introspecta, where do you get the real Russian Phenibut from?



#16 Introspecta

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 09:00 PM

Sorry But I can't disclose my source but if you type in Noofen there are different Russian Websites sellling it. There are some sites selling packets of 2.5 grams. I'm willing to bet its micro crystals. I'm almost certain Phenibut made in Russia is legit and the stuff that comes here is from China to save money. Somehow people still enjoy the shit Phenibut. Some people seem to actually get good effects from it. All I get is side effects

 

Phenibut's effects usually last for 24 hours so if your complaining it lasts too long then that is just how it works. The half life is 5-6 hours but effects seem to go 24 hours. You'd probably have to dose lower but if its not good quality it really doesn't give the good anti anxiety nootropic effects which is sad to say. There is also the people that don't respond well too it. Even back in the day when it was all good stuff some people didn't like it which will happen with anything.

 

My order from Relentless improvement came in and the consistency appears to be not so good. Its not microcrystalline. They claim to have Pharmaceutical grade and yet its baby powder type powder. I havn't tried it yet so who knows maybe it is good quality but in my 8 years of Phenibut use the only kind that worked like it should was micro crystalline.


Edited by Introspecta, 22 September 2014 - 09:22 PM.


#17 Introspecta

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:32 PM

I wasn't going to reveal where to buy Russian Phenibut but after speaking with them it appears they have plenty so if you want to Get the real deal go to AwakeBrain.Com.  It is 20 dollars for 20 tablets of 250mgs. Its expensive compared to bulk powders but if your using Phenibut like your suppose to it should last you a few weeks. 750mg seems to be all that is needed for starting dose for me at least.

 

If your a Phenibut user its worth at least comparing the two to realize your paying less but getting inferior product from China. I wish I knew this earlier.

 

One good thing with Awakebrain is that they ship from East Coast it seems so I ordered mine late Thursday with the cheapest shipping and received it Saturday surprisingly. I'd go with the cheapest shipping if living in the US. I used Express Mail one time and it actually took longer. May have been due to Post office but its not worth the extra 10 bucks for Express.

 


Edited by Introspecta, 22 September 2014 - 11:37 PM.


#18 normalizing

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:57 AM

awakebrain is really expensive. lots of people were detered from ordering there because of the high prices. but if you think about it, it seems better choice because its original russian packaging unlike those sketchy chinese bulk suppliers. :S



#19 Introspecta

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:01 PM

All I can really speak for is Phenibut. If you want the best effects. The bulks seem to provide more side effects and fatigue so for me the savings means absolutely nothing. Now if your a daily Phenibut user it may be wise to use low dose bulk during the week to stave off withdrawal then Pharmaceutical on high anxiety days or recreational on weekends.

 

Yes you are right its orginal packaging from a legit Pharmaceutical Company. Although they do testing from China if bad Phenibut quality is any indication of what else they are cutting corners are to save money then there may be other Nootropics that arn't top quality. Phenibut is an actual drug with alcohol like effects so its easier to judge effects as opposed to nootropics which are more subtle.

 

I'm a little annoyed at how outragous their Phenylpiracetam is. Something like 50 bucks for 10 100mg capsules. I may try a sample which they sell in combination with Adrafinil and Ladasten. It may work much better than bulks but I simply couldn't afford it all the time.



#20 normalizing

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 03:22 AM

i tried their sample pack. ladasten had zero effect. phenylpiracetam also didnt give anything positive but when mixed with alcohol, it caused a shitstorm of anxiety. only the adrafinil works but i noticed on the pack it says made in china :/



#21 Introspecta

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:03 AM

How many mgs of Phenylpiracetam did you take? I usually need 200mg to feel effects. Strange about the adrafinil. All the other packages seem to be written in Russian. Is all the writing on the adrafinil in english?

 


Edited by Introspecta, 24 September 2014 - 10:05 AM.


#22 Babychris

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:17 AM

I still have a load of a primaforce phenibut, feel really average, nothing awesome, seriously...



#23 normalizing

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 08:28 AM

How many mgs of Phenylpiracetam did you take? I usually need 200mg to feel effects. Strange about the adrafinil. All the other packages seem to be written in Russian. Is all the writing on the adrafinil in english?

 

cant recall as i said, i drank a bit before i took it. but it was all i had so it had to be more than 200mg for sure. just made me super depressed and ruined my alcohol buzz. the adrafinil is not russian, its written in english and says made in china. not sure why this site has it combined with their other actual russian products :s



#24 Strangelove

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 06:25 PM

Normalizing, could you say more about your experience with the FAA phenibut? 



#25 xks201

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:08 PM

Just recently purchased primaforcr phenibut and sns phenibut. Most likely they are using the same source because they both gave me kidney pain for 2 days which is reminiscent of the side effects seen from heavy metal contamination which Is very common in my experience from stuff made in China. Stay away from phenibut for sure unless it's Russian pharmacy grade imo
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#26 Strangelove

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:11 PM

The question above about FAA phenibut was directed to introspecta... But looking again his experience, I am covered. Unfortunately I read some good reports on line and ordered some a few minutes ago. I am very interested to get good quality R-phenibut, I am interested enough to spend up to $150 for 100gr in a group buy.

 

Introspecta, why you say the good quality phenibut is R-phenibut? I have seen R-phenibut listed only once from a supplier in Australia many years ago.



#27 Introspecta

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:05 PM

I can't pull the study up on my phone at the moment but just good comparison of R-phenibut in  and there is a study comparing s-phenibut, r-phenibut and racemic. Racemic would be a combination of s and r. But supposedly S phenibut isn't really active so I'm not sure what causes the shitty side effects. I mean even good quality Phenibut will have side effects if taking too much such as drying of joints, fatigue, etc. But it shouldn't make you only tired with little mood boost like most of the stuff around does.

 

I tried Relentless Improvements Phenibut and while I didn't like the consistency I actually feel like it was better quality than Liftmodes. Especially the FAA for some reason that stuff only makes me tired.

 

These Bulk powders have no safety regulation on them. Legit Russian Phenibut in tablets has to be tested due to Russian Laws according to guy at Awakebrain.

 

Some people say Phenibut FAA feels cleaner but I just havn't had that experience. It does taste a hell of alot better. I asked Liftmode  if they could obtain R-Phenibut and they said they would look into it. If for some reason they get it they'll probably jack the price up. I don't trust China so if they get it from China the chinese would probably just lie to them and I don't think there would be a way to tell the difference.


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#28 kemiclinguist

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 03:02 AM

reChem.ca's Phenibut was good but they stopped stocking it.  it was different from the other brands i've tried, smoother, emotionally uplifting, and didn't give that dirty metallic sensation when dosed a bit too high.  just got a batch from powder city and while it's cleaner than the last, it's still not the right isomer.

 

i would be interested in a group buy.



#29 Introspecta

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:02 AM

A group buy is not worth it for the time, money, getting it tested with a chance that we still could end up with a racemic. Just order some from Awakebrain or a Russian website.


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#30 Strangelove

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:32 PM

A group buy is not worth it for the time, money, getting it tested with a chance that we still could end up with a racemic. Just order some from Awakebrain or a Russian website.

 

Depends how difficult is to find it...

 

I am interested in R-phenibut because there is speculation that most of the negatives are from the s-isomer. Also how anyones know if they have pure R-phenibut? An indication would be that half the dose is needed for the same effects. Do these Russian pills have twice the strength?

 

Another way is to start sending messages to liftmode that we are intereted for high purity R-phenibut. If they see a lot of interest maybe would try to stock it.

 

Supposedly R-baclofen is very similar to phenibut, and does not have the side effects of baclofen.





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