12 replies to this topic

[LongLiveTheKing]

So since I've searched and and searched for who knows how long and tried many different things, I decided to just explain my situation and let the smart people here possibly point me in the right direction. I tend not to ask for help. About a year ago I finally decided to see a doc about low energy and my sleeping issues. I tested positive for severe sleep apnea (waking up 30 times an hour is considered severe, I was at 45/51). I also had trouble falling asleep, so for quite some time I got low amounts of low quality sleep. They diagnosed me with anxiety because of this. I wasn't overweight when I tested for sleep apnea but now I'm about 20 pounds higher than I'd like, maybe due to the SSRI or something since my weight has never fluctuated much but I am working out a good bit and attempting to eat well. I would say the SSRI did cut down my anxiety but I ended up not taking it anymore because of side effects and I just don't really want to be on that kind of drug for a long period. When diagnosed, I was feeling very positive that things were going to turn around and I'd have some energy. I have yet to really feel that energy though. Growing up I've always been extremely intelligent but quiet. I listen and analyze everything. I am currently working on redoing my 23andme.com test since apparently the first sample didn't work. I find it extremely difficult to be productive. My time management ability is just about non existent. I have compulsive behavior(gambling has got me in trouble a couple times). The feel like the organizational part of my brain which I believe I read was the prefrontal cortex doesn't seem to work too great. I find it difficult to talk fluently and words escape me constantly. Sometimes it feels like I don't even have the energy to talk. I am amazed when people take supplements and notice all the subtle effects it has on them. I don't feel like I could notice a subtle difference and none of the long list of things I've tried have made that big of a difference. I'm going in tomorrow to get some blood drawn. A complete wellness check and h1ac(A test I took before did show somewhat high insulin). That should show sodium levels which is the most recent thing I'm contemplating. Dopamine could be an issue as I don't really feel I have that whole reward feeling. I don't try to impress anyone at work or anything like that. I don't feel like if I get some small task done I'm going be proud of myself. If anyone has a theory I'd be grateful to hear it. Oh yeah, I do take C60OO also. That was one other thing I was like, maybe this sleep apnea has reduced the oxygen in my body and this will make my body work more efficiently with less oxygen but I didn't notice much.

[aconita]

The weight gain i likely due to high cortisol because the lack of restful sleep.

 

Cortisol is antagonist to testosterone, low testosterone may be responsible for all or most of your issues.

 

I may suggest to check testosterone levels.

 

I find about 3mg melatonin with about 200mg theanine 30 minutes before bed do promote nice sleep,

 

Ashwagandha may be interesting too for its relaxing and testosterone enhancing proprieties.

 

Measure your basal temperature (temperature taken while still in bed first thing in the morning) if it is below 36,5 it may indicate hypothyroidism (cold hands and feet, prone to cysts, weak hairs, etc..?).

 

It may be difficult to test hypothyroidism, symptoms and basal temperature are more accurate.

 

 

 

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

 

http://imgur.com/tWJqjOJ

 

This is the previous test I had done, taken around 3pm I believe. I should have results for this next test in a day or two where I fasted and did it soon after awakening. I do take melatonin and have been managing to go to sleep at a decent time lately, surprisingly. So far anyways. My work situation changed so now I have to wake up at 430am so going to sleep early is vitally important. As you can see testosterone was low but not out of range low. I have gotten TSH levels checked multiple times and they've come back fine I guess. I know my sister had to get part of her thyroid removed. I do seem to have a bit of an addictive personality and am now wondering if maybe I have down regulated my dopamine receptors. I appreciate the input.

[aconita]

Your numbers are far from impressing, as i suspected low testosterone, low DHEA,, high cortisol, high insulin....yes, they are all in range but on the very edge and I wouldn't  be happy at all with those.

 

How old are you, how many hours of sleep and what kind of nutrition do you have?

 

The addiction side may be a bit tricky but hormones may play a role there too, I would start fixing the hormones profile first.

 

Dopamine might be in the equation too, the best way to tackle it pharmaceutically is with selegiline, 2,5mg once a week may be all you need, it needs prescription but at that dosage a box will last you forever.

 

Vitamin D3 (5000IU/day), fish oil (5-10gr/day, top quality only), zinc in the morning (30mg), magnesium before sleep (magnesium bisglycinate 500mg), acetyl carnitine (2500mg) with beta alanine (3000mg) in the morning.

 

Those are supplements you might consider.

 

Test your thyroid function as described, I strongly suspect issues there therefore come back reporting the result. 

 

Of course this is not a diagnosis or a prescription, just pointing you in some directions may be worth researching further.  

[LongLiveTheKing]

I am a 30 year old male. As of late I have been getting a decent amount of sleep. 7hours-ish most nights.

 

Prescription drugs might be tricky as I am in the military and for what I do already required a waiver for the SSRI.

 

I've taken vitamin D3 daily for quite some time. I've been taking a regular dose of fish oil recently. I started taking 50mg of zinc but at night with my magnesium bisglycinate. I just started trying acetyl carnitine lately. But definitely not at 2500mg a day. I also take about 3 grams of beta alanine before i workout.

 

I've brought up issues with my doctor about thyroid and they checked me twice, at least T3 and T4 levels I believe. Navy doctors tend not to be very thorough though =/.

 

https://www.directla...type=testsample

 

^ That is a sample of a test that I should have results of in a day or two along with ha1c.

 

It did seem around the time I went through puberty is when I became much more reserved and such which has made me think hormones but I haven't seen anything to show that.

 

Thanks for your input!

[aconita]

At 30 years old your hormones should be at their peak, not on the edge as you have, there is definitely a big issue here.

 

Sleeping 7 hours is not enough, it is not as bad as some people does, you said correctly: that's "decent"... but not "optimal",  you should aim do get to 9 hours.

 

Selegiline is usually seen as "harmless" especially so the low dosage form (5mg/tablet), if you explain the doctor your intended use of 2,5mg/week (half of the lower dose tablet available a week!) he should make no questions.

 

Selegiline doesn't impair your army required physical and mental conditions, actually the opposite is true, another reason why your doctor should not oppose resistance.

 

Zinc is antagonist to magnesium therefore taking them at the same time it is not a smart choice.

 

About 2000-2500mg ALCAR is not a huge dosage, don't worry.

 

As I said thyroid function is not easy to measure by clinical tests, actually those are very inaccurate and most hypothyroid conditions gets unreported, doctor Brownstein is an authority about thyroid, check out some of his video on youtube or get some of his books if you like to know a bit better about iodine supplementation.

 

Tonight place a thermometer besides you bed, tomorrow as you wake up don't move, just grab the thermometer and take your temperature while in bed, that is your basal temperature and if it is below 36,5 it means your thyroid is not working as it should.

 

I bet you fall well below that.

 

At that point have you tested for Hashimoto, if that comes out negative you have got green light to iodine supplementation, SSKI (you may have it already since it is given in case of nuclear accident or conflict, often part of army personnel equipment) or Iodoral. 

 

It may be interesting to see you CPR values (it is a test for inflammation, inflammation = high cortisol).

 

.It did seem around the time I went through puberty is when I became much more reserved and such which has made me think hormones but I haven't seen anything to show that

 

 

.

Really?

 

To me everything points exactly in that direction, numbers included, but that just me, of course.

 

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

Thank you, I will take a look at some videos. I'll have to go pick up a thermometer so I can give that a try ha. 

 

I do have some kelp pills in my cupboard that I think I tried for a short while. 

 

I believe you have the antagonist thing wrong though. Isn't the ZMA supplement zinc + mag? Looking it up it shows as a synergist with zinc.

 

How would one get diagnosed with Hashimoto's? And what if TSH levels continue to show normal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aconita]

ZMA in facts doesn't work at all, besides the amounts of minerals being to tiny to be of any help.

 

Kelp is a good source of iodine but its content is not usually standardized therefore you don't really know how much are you getting, this is not a big issue once the thyroid is "normal" but when you need to fix it the amount of iodine is much greater and you really want to know exactly what you are taking.

 

Hashimoto is tested by a blood sample, diagnosis is usually made by detecting elevated levels of anti-thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb) in the serum.

 

https://en.wikipedia...o's_thyroiditis

 

TSH levels may show normal in hypothyroidism conditions, as I said tests don't necessarily show hypothyroidism, that's why there are so many undetected cases.

 

A more accurate test is measuring the iodine load in urine after the ingestion of 4 Iodoral tablets, not every laboratory perform this test, actually very few but in the USA there are a couple of them if I recall correctly.

 

http://www.optimox.c...ne/loadTest.htm

 

Anyway basal temperature is a good indicator and should suffice.

[LongLiveTheKing]

I attached my most recent results. My hdl is still low but looks like my LDL is high now. I've done keto off and on in the past few months so that may have something to do with it. I have ordered some lugol's and might give that a try. I know I had thought about getting some in the past. Platelet count seems a bit low.

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[aconita]

Keto is not a very smart choice in my view, eventually low carbs is better.

 

Both can lead to increased total cholesterol which itself is not a bad thing but if not enough fish is included the LDL/HDL ratio gets screwed (too many omega 6 in meat and poultry, especially if industrially farmed). 

 

Your number are Tg 121 and HDL 38, the ratio between the two is horrible!

 

It is 3,18 while it has to be below 2, it means you need much more omega 3 in your diet, this unbalance effects negatively your hormones, I am not saying it is the cause of all your issues but it is definitely not helping.

 

In order to fix that try to eat pasture grazing meat (buffalo is a very good choice), free range poultry/eggs and much more fish, avoid farmed fish, prefer fatty fish like mackerel and herrings, cold water fish like cod an halibut, etc...

 

If you like so supplementing high dosage high quality fish oil for a while will definitely help.

 

I suggest this fish oil http://www.anne-marie.ca/fishoil.html at 10-15 caps/day for 6 months, after that repeat the blood test and see how the Tg/HDL ratio goes.

 

Keto is not going to help you much with loosing fat if your cortisol and insulin are high and testosterone low, cortisol may react badly to keto, insulin should come down, try to eat only twice a day with carbs only once, nothing between meals.

 

Cortisol is the stress hormone, if your nutrition stresses you is no good.

 

Extreme nutrition like keto tend to stress.

 

Take it easier, to suffer is not the correct answer, adjust your nutrition in a way you are happy and enjoy it, eventually gradually and slowly move in a direction of lower carbs or whatever you know is better but do it slowly and progressively in order to adapt without stressing out. 

 

[LongLiveTheKing]

Thanks again for your reply.

 

15 caps a day and I'd go through 5 bottles a month! $130 a month on fish oil seems a bit steep.

 

Unfortunately, the job I am stuck in for the next year and 4 months is a pretty stressful environment. I've heard good things about ashwagandha lowering cortisol and raising testosterone though. 

 

Yeah, I already decided I wasn't going to go keto and just try to do lower carb. But then MisterE might come into this thread spreading the carb love ha. 

 

I wasn't aware of that ratio. I wasn't aware of ever having a cholesterol issue. I could have swore my last test around 6ish months ago I was low HDL and LDL but maybe it was HDL and total. I wish I had easy access to those results.

 

I did eat plenty of free range eggs in the form of omelets with cheese and turkey sausage while doing the keto thing. 

 

Pharmaceutical grade fish oil (“PGFO”) is an anecdotal term and not a medical or scientific term.  

This on their website makes it sound like a gimmick.

 

I recall reading something about fish oil may be good only for certain gene types. I probably have a good 5 weeks to get results on my genes though. I do take it though and have upped the amount since the other day.

[aconita]

That fish oil does not come cheap, I agree, that's why I suggested you first nutritional changes and to supplement only if you wish so.

 

The product is not a gymmick, check out the EPA/DHA content and compare it with any other fish oil, you'll be hard pressed to find anything that comes even close.

 

Do your math and probably you'll find after all is not even so expensive compared to other fish oils when considering the above, anyway it is not mandatory to take fish oil supplements in order to better Tg/HDL balance, it may speed up the process, that's all.

 

If you like to know more about fish oil I suggest you Barry Sears "The Omega RX Zone", a nice book quite well written, I must say.

 

If you don't dislike fish just go for it and leave alone fish oil, for that money you should be able to get a huge amount of delicious fresh fish that will be better for your health than any supplement by far.

[Aurel]

How to fight the low testosterone of the King?