8 replies to this topic

[iseethelight]

I started taking niacin to lower excess catecholamine levels. It's working for this but I'm getting a weird side effect. The back of both of my legs hurt like I'm having minor cramps. The pain / discomfort lasts all day after my morning 100mg dose until the next afternoon. What's causing this. I've tried this on 3 different occasions with the same side effects. I'm taking 100mg doses.

[playground]

These symptoms are consistent with magnesium deficiency.

 

The (usual) reason for this is that you are taking, or have been taking, diuretics... of one form or another.

Alcohol is a very potent diuretic... and very often causes magnesium deficiency induced leg/feet cramps.

Other diuretics include: tea and coffee.

Many supplements act as 'secret' diuretics too.

eg. excess Nicotinamide and vitamin C is flushed out of your body by your kidneys.

(perhaps niacin too)

 

They will go away if you start adding magnesium citrate to your drinking water.

I recommend you buy the magnesium citrate powder, it's purer, you'll get more and overall it's cheaper.

(you can add 100 mg to tea and coffee .. this will cure the cramps almost immediately)

 

Look out for Jigsaw Magnesium tablets.  (check ebay and amazon)

They are slow release magnesium supplements.

Take them before bedtime, they will stop leg/waking cramps waking you up.

 

hope this helps

[PeaceAndProsperity]

"I started taking niacin to lower excess catecholamine levels." Where did you read that it does this and what chemical is the niacin? Nicotinic acid?

[SearchHorizon]

Niacin interferes with carbohydrate metabolism. Its immediate and most visible effect is flushing or vasodilation, which is accompanied by increased carb utilization in peripheral tissues. However, after the niacin's immediate effect wears off, the body fights back, and increases triglyceride levels and reduce blood sugar levels. This can sometimes cause muscles to cramps for few people.

 

I am not sure if taking niacin is the best way to lower catecholemine - I have not read that it helps. I believe it can help lower cortisol - but there are other ways to do that as well.

 

[PeaceAndProsperity]

after the niacin's immediate effect wears off, the body fights back, and increases triglyceride levels and reduce blood sugar levels

Sorry but what a load of junk, that's not what happens and that's not how it works. Niacin's effects with regards to triglycerides persists for a lot longer than the blood glucose effect, which only lasts some minutes. And the body doesn't fight the vitamin or its effects, not at all. 

With the regards to the glucose effect, which is extremely mild and insignificant on paper, that's just a physiological consequence.

[iseethelight]

Thanks guys. 

 

These symptoms are consistent with magnesium deficiency.

 

The (usual) reason for this is that you are taking, or have been taking, diuretics... of one form or another.

Alcohol is a very potent diuretic... and very often causes magnesium deficiency induced leg/feet cramps.

Other diuretics include: tea and coffee.

Many supplements act as 'secret' diuretics too.

eg. excess Nicotinamide and vitamin C is flushed out of your body by your kidneys.

(perhaps niacin too)

 

They will go away if you start adding magnesium citrate to your drinking water.

I recommend you buy the magnesium citrate powder, it's purer, you'll get more and overall it's cheaper.

(you can add 100 mg to tea and coffee .. this will cure the cramps almost immediately)

 

Look out for Jigsaw Magnesium tablets.  (check ebay and amazon)

They are slow release magnesium supplements.

Take them before bedtime, they will stop leg/waking cramps waking you up.

 

hope this helps

 

The thing is I can't tolerate magnesium citrate. It has its own side effects in me that I can't tolerate. 

Niacin interferes with carbohydrate metabolism. Its immediate and most visible effect is flushing or vasodilation, which is accompanied by increased carb utilization in peripheral tissues. However, after the niacin's immediate effect wears off, the body fights back, and increases triglyceride levels and reduce blood sugar levels. This can sometimes cause muscles to cramps for few people.

 

I am not sure if taking niacin is the best way to lower catecholemine - I have not read that it helps. I believe it can help lower cortisol - but there are other ways to do that as well.

This makes sense. 

 

I've decided to stop the niacin for now. In addition to the leg pain/cramps, I started getting a pretty serious back ache. Had to drop it.

[SearchHorizon]

 

after the niacin's immediate effect wears off, the body fights back, and increases triglyceride levels and reduce blood sugar levels

Sorry but what a load of junk, that's not what happens and that's not how it works. Niacin's effects with regards to triglycerides persists for a lot longer than the blood glucose effect, which only lasts some minutes. And the body doesn't fight the vitamin or its effects, not at all. 

With the regards to the glucose effect, which is extremely mild and insignificant on paper, that's just a physiological consequence.

 

 

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

Check out Fig. 8 in the link below for short-term effect of niacin on plasma fatty acid level and glucose level on human subjects.

 

https://nature.berke...fs/weinicot.pdf

 

As clear from the bar graphs, niacin administration initially suppresses plasma fatty acid level and increases glucose level. Later, there is fatty acid "rebound' along with decreased glucose use. Contrary to what you said, the magnitude of what you called 'glucose effect' is significant. 

 

A human body is sensitive about maintaining a proper ratio of glycogen and fat. Hence, if you force the body to burn one fuel substrate (e.g., fat) through the use of a chemical agent (e.g., niacin), it will attempt to restore homeostasis, resulting in plasma fatty acid rebound. This is what I mean by 'fights back.' This can be loosely compared to a situation in which one forces glycogen utilization through anaerobic exercise. Once the exercise is over, the body will compensate by increasing use of stored fat.

Edited by SearchHorizon, 24 October 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[PeaceAndProsperity]

.

You are spewing utter nonsense. Firstly, nicotinic acid is a vitamin, you are presenting it as if its effects are not a part of the body's functions and mediated via its receptors in the body. Secondly, nicotinic acid administration once a day in therapeutic dosages can suppress triglyceride levels and modulate cholesterol transporter levels positively that lasts longer than a day (otherwise you wouldn't be able to measure a therapeutic difference over months), while the blood glucose effect does not last long and is only a 15% or so insignificant change.

 

It is obvious that through various mechanisms the body increases triglyceride levels to reach homeostasis, but nicotinic acid still is able to suppress those levels both short term and long term.

If it didn't then it wouldn't be therapeutic as studies have noted for over 30 years that it is.

[SearchHorizon]

 

.

You are spewing utter nonsense. Firstly, nicotinic acid is a vitamin, you are presenting it as if its effects are not a part of the body's functions and mediated via its receptors in the body. Secondly, nicotinic acid administration once a day in therapeutic dosages can suppress triglyceride levels and modulate cholesterol transporter levels positively that lasts longer than a day (otherwise you wouldn't be able to measure a therapeutic difference over months), while the blood glucose effect does not last long and is only a 15% or so insignificant change.

 

It is obvious that through various mechanisms the body increases triglyceride levels to reach homeostasis, but nicotinic acid still is able to suppress those levels both short term and long term.

If it didn't then it wouldn't be therapeutic as studies have noted for over 30 years that it is.

 

 

I should note that the original poster was talking about a short-term side effect, which has little to do with your general statement on niacin's long term effects. Did you take a look at the Figure in the paper I provided a link for? Do you understand the significance of the figure?  

 

Niacin has been studied for a long time - but its long-term effects are far from conclusive. You are not going to realize this, though, from looking at the top Google search result or a brief overview on niacin. Take a look at studies that show, at high dosages, niacin administration induces insulin insensitivity and diabetic tendencies. Although some studies show that niacin administration leads to lower cholesterol levels; other studies show negative effects of niacin administration.  

 

You pointed out that niacin is a vitamin and that there are receptors for it. But that is not relevant. When you talk about administering a compound in dosages that are far greater than what the body intakes naturally, it doesn't matter that there is a receptor, enzyme, etc. Do you understand why? 

 

Contrary to what Googling "niacin" may seem to indicate, niacin's effect on one's body is varied. Its biochemical pathways are complex, and I don't think scientists have mapped out all of the pathways. Because of the variability in response, you cannot simply administer niacin to someone at "therapeutic" dosages and think it will have a positive impact on lipid profile. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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