• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
LongeCity .                       Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Exercise like a girl -- a protocol

exercise nicotinamide riboside ribose nad(+)/nadh mitochondria quality control fission fusion

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Turnbuckle

  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 31 March 2017 - 06:11 PM


In this protocol, nicotinamide riboside (NR) is used to weaken muscles temporarily to enhance the impact of exercise, while also stimulating mitochondrial quality control.

 

Method: High dosing with NR precursors and exercising about an hour later with weights less than normal—generally substantially less.

 

Dosage: I’ve used up to 2 grams of nicotinamide and 5 grams of ribose. This is equivalent to more than 4 grams of nicotinamide riboside, with the advantage that it doesn’t have to be broken down first and thus the onset doesn’t take hours. This is a large dose and I suggest that one work up to it.

 

Frequency: Once a week to allow NAD levels to drop and for mitochondria to proliferate. I did try this 4 days in a row initially, and regretted it as it took me over a week to recover. 

 

Results: I’ve found that by using weights with only one-half to one-third of what I can lift with C60, I’m getting better results.

 

Rationale: NR efficiently raises the ratio of NAD(+)/NADH, which sets the mitochondrial quality control process running. Mitochondria are divided into minimal size (which is inefficient for ATP production). Exercising forces mitochondria into high (though inefficient) activity, which makes it easier for the cell to identify poor performers and mark them for destruction. So you potentially get muscle credit for lifting substantially less weight, plus you enhance the clearance of defective mtDNA.

 

 

 

References:

 

Nicotinamide-induced mitophagy: event mediated by high NAD+/NADH ratio and SIRT1 protein activation.

 

Here, we present evidence to show that the effect of nicotinamide is mediated through an increase of the [NAD(+)]/[NADH] ratio and the activation of SIRT1, an NAD(+)-dependent deacetylase that plays a role in autophagy flux. The [NAD(+)]/[NADH] ratio was inversely correlated with the mitochondrial content... Together, our results indicate that a metabolic state resulting in an elevated [NAD(+)]/[NADH] ratio can modulate mitochondrial quantity and quality via pathways that may include SIRT1-mediated mitochondrial autophagy . . . Removal of dysfunctional mitochondria requires the activation of autophagy coupled with ongoing mitochondrial fission.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3365962/

 

 

Bioenergetic role of mitochondrial fusion and fission

 

Several recent reports underscore the importance of mitochondrial fusion under conditions of high energy demand in mammals. It was shown that some cell stressors, including UV irradiation and several drugs that inhibit cytosolic protein synthesis, can trigger increased mitochondrial fusion in mouse embryonic fibroblasts, a process termed stress-induced mitochondrial hyperfusion. Mitochondria elongate and form a mesh of highly interconnected filaments in an Mfn1 and Opa1-dependent manner. Stress-induced mitochondrial hyperfusion is accompanied by increased mitochondrial ATP production. It is conceivable that fusion is necessary to optimize mitochondrial function in order to allow the cell to cope with increased energy demand during selective forms of stress.

 

http://www.sciencedi...005272812000692

 

 

 

Digestion and Absorption of NAD by the Small Intestine of the Rat

 

Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.

 

http://nadh.wiki/wp-...-of-the-Rat.pdf

 

 

 


  • Good Point x 4
  • WellResearched x 3
  • Informative x 2
  • like x 1

#2 Kabb

  • Registered User
  • 74 posts
  • 4
  • Location:UK
  • NO

Posted 06 June 2017 - 07:08 PM

How does taking supplemental ribose and nicotinamide  increase the level of nicotinamide riboside?  Presumably taking NR's precusors is necessary but not, of itself, sufficient to create NR.  Is the light exercise an important ingredient in activating biochemical processes to combine these precursors?



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for EXERCISE to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#3 Turnbuckle

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 06 June 2017 - 08:59 PM

How does taking supplemental ribose and nicotinamide  increase the level of nicotinamide riboside?  Presumably taking NR's precusors is necessary but not, of itself, sufficient to create NR.  Is the light exercise an important ingredient in activating biochemical processes to combine these precursors?

 

 

See the last link in the OP, which says: Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.

 

In rats, NR was not absorbed until cleaved and then the resulting free nicotinamide (and ribose as well) could be absorbed. So taking N+R is equivalent to taking a predigested NR. There's no evidence that humans are any different from rats when it comes to the absorption of NR. Thus taking 2g of nicotinamide + 5 grams of ribose (a stoichiometric excess) is equivalent to taking 4g of NR. This is a huge dose, which fissions mitochondria and makes you temporarily weaker, as fissioned mitochondria are not as effective at creating ATP. Thus you won't be able to lift as much weight, but will be able to generate a burn more easily, stimulating muscle growth.


  • like x 1
  • Agree x 1

#4 hamishm00

  • Registered User
  • 998 posts
  • 83
  • Location:United Arab Emirates

Posted 12 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

 

 

How does taking supplemental ribose and nicotinamide  increase the level of nicotinamide riboside?  Presumably taking NR's precusors is necessary but not, of itself, sufficient to create NR.  Is the light exercise an important ingredient in activating biochemical processes to combine these precursors?

 

 

See the last link in the OP, which says: Perfused or intact intestine rapidly hydrolyzed NMN to nicotinamide riboside, which accumulated, but was not absorbed. It was slowly cleaved by an enzyme associated with the mucosal cells to nicotinamide, which was the major if not the only labeled compound absorbed.

 

In rats, NR was not absorbed until cleaved and then the resulting free nicotinamide (and ribose as well) could be absorbed. So taking N+R is equivalent to taking a predigested NR. There's no evidence that humans are any different from rats when it comes to the absorption of NR. Thus taking 2g of nicotinamide + 5 grams of ribose (a stoichiometric excess) is equivalent to taking 4g of NR. This is a huge dose, which fissions mitochondria and makes you temporarily weaker, as fissioned mitochondria are not as effective at creating ATP. Thus you won't be able to lift as much weight, but will be able to generate a burn more easily, stimulating muscle growth.

 

 


 

I tried this and the weakening effect (combined with burning) in the gym is significant. very interesting.

 

 


Edited by hamishm00, 12 June 2017 - 01:52 PM.

  • like x 1

#5 aconita

  • Registered User
  • 1,186 posts
  • 172
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 12 June 2017 - 09:23 PM

You can try blood flow restriction training (Kaatsu training) since big weights are out of question, it should yield even better results.


  • like x 1

#6 Turnbuckle

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 29 June 2017 - 03:38 PM

You can try blood flow restriction training (Kaatsu training) since big weights are out of question, it should yield even better results.

 

This is an interesting idea and I will try it. It is said to work by both lowering oxygen levels and boosting lactic acid, so it's possible that supplements like pyruvate would also work with the OP protocol. Most people look to decreasing lactic acid during exercise, but maybe that is backwards.



#7 aconita

  • Registered User
  • 1,186 posts
  • 172
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 29 June 2017 - 09:03 PM

Lactic acid exposure increases the size of muscle mitochondria thus improving the lactate threshold.

 

Lowering lactic acid is a bad idea, raising the lactate threshold by increasing size of mitochondria is much smarter.


  • Agree x 1

#8 Ben

  • Registered User
  • 1,995 posts
  • -6
  • Location:South East

Posted 01 July 2017 - 10:19 AM

Re. Lactic acid (this is off topic sorry):  I used to workout in below ground floor gym. It was always stuffy in there and I believe with all the people and the poor ventilation, I would get a greater lactic acid build up. I have never felt so "swole" as did when working out at that gym.



#9 Turnbuckle

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 01 July 2017 - 11:08 AM

With time I was finding that the burn wasn't as easy to get and the weights were creeping up, so I added pyruvate + ampk activators, and I was back to getting a burn very easily with less weight.
 
N+R (2g + 5g) 
rose hips + gypenosides after 15 mininutes (1g + 75 mg)
pyruvate after another 15 minutes (2g)
weight room after another hour

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 July 2017 - 11:39 AM.

  • WellResearched x 1
  • like x 1

#10 Ben

  • Registered User
  • 1,995 posts
  • -6
  • Location:South East

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:26 PM

 

With time I was finding that the burn wasn't as easy to get and the weights were creeping up, so I added pyruvate + ampk activators, and I was back to getting a burn very easily with less weight.
 
N+R (2g + 5g) 
rose hips + gypenosides after 15 mininutes (1g + 75 mg)
pyruvate after another 15 minutes (2g)
weight room after another hour

 

 

Have your strength gains improved from this regimen?



#11 Turnbuckle

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 16 July 2017 - 10:49 PM

 

 

With time I was finding that the burn wasn't as easy to get and the weights were creeping up, so I added pyruvate + ampk activators, and I was back to getting a burn very easily with less weight.
 
N+R (2g + 5g) 
rose hips + gypenosides after 15 mininutes (1g + 75 mg)
pyruvate after another 15 minutes (2g)
weight room after another hour

 

 

Have your strength gains improved from this regimen?

 

 

 

Definite strength and muscle gains, but I can't yet say for sure about the pyruvate.



#12 Advocatus Diaboli

  • Registered User
  • 30 posts
  • 9
  • Location:California, USA
  • NO

Posted 16 July 2017 - 11:30 PM

In conjunction with Turnbuckle protocol, I use the probably-safe supplement  creatine monohydrate post-exercise to increase  power and performance in my high-intensity anaerobic routines. Anyone else use any "performance" supplements while using Turnbuckle protocol?



#13 Turnbuckle

  • Topic Starter
  • Registered User
  • 2,419 posts
  • 671
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 17 July 2017 - 01:00 PM

In conjunction with Turnbuckle protocol, I use the probably-safe supplement  creatine monohydrate post-exercise to increase  power and performance in my high-intensity anaerobic routines. Anyone else use any "performance" supplements while using Turnbuckle protocol?

 

The point of this protocol is to decrease ATP production during exercise rather than increase it, thus getting more muscle credit for a lighter workout while also getting rid of marginal mitochondria. So creatine will likely work in the opposite direction.



sponsored ad

  • Advert
Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for EXERCISE to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#14 aconita

  • Registered User
  • 1,186 posts
  • 172
  • Location:Italy
  • NO

Posted 17 July 2017 - 09:16 PM

I suppose we can expect a rebound effect too, therefore an increase in ATP once the above protocol is over which might explain part of the gains.

 

The rebound effect is a counter intuitive but indeed interesting one.

 

I remember reading  of a Chinese research about lowering testosterone for a while to have it rebound above previous levels afterwards, for example.

 

It would be interesting to get some numbers about this protocol, like how much time it last, previous max loads (1RM or whatever), afterwards max loads, increase in max loads or in reps (as seen with C60oo, the max load doesn't increase but the number of reps with the same load does).

 

Muscle size measures could be provided too, the best way to do it would be to get a before and after measure of fat percentage estimate by a fat caliper (inexpensive to buy) to make sure increase or decrease of fat isn't involved or at least taken in proper account, muscles size (diameter) like chest, arms, upper legs, 15 cm above the knee legs and calves, which will give a fair estimate of hypertrophy gains.

 

Numbers don't need to be disclosed, just percentages gained or lost. 

 

It would be interesting other people following the protocol reports too, with numbers (please try to follow a standard of measurement as above described in order to make comparison reliable), of course.

 

The more people and data the more reliable it would be, of course.

 

It would be kind of more of a research like thing instead of just anecdotal, I am pushing this way because it seems interesting and it might deserve more attention.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: exercise, nicotinamide riboside, ribose, nad(+)/nadh, mitochondria, quality control, fission, fusion

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users