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Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics

nad nad+ c60 mito fission fusion stearic acid mtdna

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#1 Turnbuckle

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 11:08 PM


Purpose: to increase mito fission or fusion for specific goals

 

Background: The average cell contains some one thousand mitochondria, each which contains several identical loops of mtDNA. These mitochondria are in a dynamic flux of fission and fusion, which serves to scramble the mtDNA and other mito components. This is important in maintaining a healthy population.

 

See: Mechanisms of Mitochondrial Fission and Fusion and Nicotinamide-induced Mitophagy

 

Supplements for fission: These are NAD+ precursors, and appear to be effective in this sequence: niacin < nicotinamide < NR < (nicotinamide + ribose)

 

Supplement for fusion: C18:0 — stearic acid.

 

See: Regulation of mitochondrial morphology and function by Stearoylation of TfR1 — “We find that animal cells are poised to respond to both increases and decreases in C18:0 levels, with increased C18:0 dietary intake boosting mitochondrial fusion in vivo.”

 

Small mitochondria are less efficient and any problem with the mtDNA genes can be detected by the cell via the membrane potential, which marks the mitochondrion for mitophagy. Thus pushing the balance of fission and fusion in the direction of fission can clean up the population of mitochondria, and can be also used for enhancing exercise.

 

See my thread Exercise Like a Girl for a method of combining fission with exercise to both improve the efficiency of exercise and improve the population of mitochondria. (For some reason this thread is locked, and even I can’t post to it. So anyone wanting to discuss that here is welcome to do so.

 

Large mitochondria are more efficient. I’ve notice that using supplements that push mitochondria to smaller size don't work well with C60 (and in fact can be terrible) thus I wondered if pushing it in the other direction might make C60 more effective. I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid. At least, I’m seeing hair regrowth that I haven’t seen since I first tried C60 in olive oil five years ago.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 April 2017 - 11:21 PM.

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#2 mpe

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 01:10 AM

Hair regrowth you say, 'll give it a try.

 

Mike


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#3 Turnbuckle

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:26 AM

An update on Exercise Like a Girl. I'm now doing this two or three times a week and I'm seeing fat being replaced by muscle at a rate I haven't seen in twenty years. And even back then I was working out much harder than I am now. As an addition to the protocol, I now take glutathione precursors 2-3 hours after coming back from the gym. This doesn't seem to hurt the muscle-building, but does eliminate any soreness that might occur later.


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#4 Oakman

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:17 PM

So hydroxytyrosol encourages larger mitochondria and hair growth? And when taken with stearic acid and C60? What's the connection between them??  

 

I've been taking Dr. Stephen Langer's Glutathione Precursor Complex 1 hr before gym for months, I've never really felt any soreness anyway, even before that, so why do you believe glutathione precursors would have that effect?

 

Interesting your "Exercise like a Girl", I've seen people at the gym what could be doing similar, always wondered just what the heck they were up to. However, I'm skeptical that "nicotinamide and Ribose = NR". References?

 

What gets (my) weight coming off, up to 1/2 lb a day, is simply eating light and with 80-100% of calories before 2pm, then nothing to a small salad for 'dinner'. Works like magic, shutting off the digestive process early for => 12 hrs of fasting to burn through fat.



#5 Turnbuckle

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:46 PM

So hydroxytyrosol encourages larger mitochondria and hair growth? And when taken with stearic acid and C60? What's the connection between them??  

 

I've been taking Dr. Stephen Langer's Glutathione Precursor Complex 1 hr before gym for months, I've never really felt any soreness anyway, even before that, so why do you believe glutathione precursors would have that effect?

 

Interesting your "Exercise like a Girl", I've seen people at the gym what could be doing similar, always wondered just what the heck they were up to. However, I'm skeptical that "nicotinamide and Ribose = NR". References?

 

What gets (my) weight coming off, up to 1/2 lb a day, is simply eating light and with 80-100% of calories before 2pm, then nothing to a small salad for 'dinner'. Works like magic, shutting off the digestive process early for => 12 hrs of fasting to burn through fat.

 

Fusion and C60

I use HT/C60 in MCT oil in place of C60/olive oil, as olive oil is neither consistent nor stable. HT is the most powerful antioxidant of the polyphenols occurring naturally in olive oil, while stearic acid pushes mitochondria into fusion. The only reason I tried this was that I found that C60 + NAD supplements (which push mitochondria into fission) produced negative effects. Thus I suspected that  a supplement promoting fusion over fission would might be superior in combo with C60. One of the effects of C60 in many people appears to be the stimulation of stem cells, and the combination of C60 + fusion does appear to be superior, given the hair regrowth I've seen.

 

Fission and NR (and not antioxidants)

Taking NR precursors enhances the exercise effect, and the resultant soreness (assuming that's a problem) can be stopped by taking glutathione afterward. But if you take glutathione before the gym, you eliminate the advantage of NR+exercise. Any mito antioxidant will have this same problem, and that includes C60. See this link, where weight training was compared in two groups, one taking antioxidants and one not. Both gained muscle size, but those taking antioxidants had weaker muscles. By my hypothesis, this is due to the antioxidants interfering with the cells' mito quality control process (which is enhanced by NR and the resultant mito fission) --

 

But there were subtle but significant differences in their strength gains. Over all, the volunteers who had taken the antioxidants had not added as much strength as the control group. Their muscles were punier, although they had grown in size.

 

 

As for using nicotinamide and ribose in preference to NR, see my Exercise Like a Girl post. In particular my last reference that indicates NR must be cleaved by enzymes to be absorbed. So taking nicotinamide plus a greater than stoichiometric dose of ribose is essentially taking a predigested NR, except you won't have to wait hours for maximum effect on NAD, and more of the nicotinamide will be converted into NR in the body with the excess of ribose.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 18 April 2017 - 03:23 PM.

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#6 pamojja

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:35 PM

 

I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid.

 

Do you use pure stearic acid? Would the high content of cocoa butter, and also chocolate, suffice?



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#7 Turnbuckle

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:33 PM

 

 

I’ve tried this a few times, using C60 (in MCT oil: 1-2 mg C60 and a like amount of hydroxytyrosol), and it does seem to be more effective when combined with several grams of stearic acid.

 

Do you use pure stearic acid? Would the high content of cocoa butter, and also chocolate, suffice?

 

 

My experience is only with my C60 mix taken with five grams of pure stearic acid on an empty stomach. I can't say if that is the optimum dose, and I will try larger doses in future trials. Stearic acid is a free fatty acid while the stearic acid in coca butter is in the form of mixed triglycerides. What difference that would make for this purpose I can't say.  

 

Food grade stearic acid is ridiculously cheap--around $5/lb at Amazon. 


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