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Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics

nad nad+ c60 mito fission fusion stearic acid mtdna methylene blue

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#61 Richard McGee

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:37 PM

I've been following a week-long cycle: 2 days fission, 1 day rest, 3 days fusion, 1 day rest. Have completed 2 cycles so far. As per Turnbuckle's suggestion, will in future add 2-4 gm ascorbic acid to fusion protocol.

 

My new schedule will look like this:

 

Day 1, & 2: Fission - 2 gm nicotinamide + 5 gm ribose, exercise 1 hour later

Day 3 Rest

Day 4, 5, & 6: Fusion - 5-10 gm stearic acid + 2-4 gm ascorbic acid + 20 gm PQQ + 2 caps BroccoMax

Day 7 Rest

 

A basic question I have is how long should this protocol be followed. Should it be considered a short-term intervention or a long-term process? Also, would you need to adjust the protocol after you have completed X number of cycles? As for now, I have committed to one month (4 cycles), but I would appreciate any thoughtful input.

 

 



#62 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 03:53 PM

I've been following a week-long cycle: 2 days fission, 1 day rest, 3 days fusion, 1 day rest. Have completed 2 cycles so far. As per Turnbuckle's suggestion, will in future add 2-4 gm ascorbic acid to fusion protocol.

 

My new schedule will look like this:

 

Day 1, & 2: Fission - 2 gm nicotinamide + 5 gm ribose, exercise 1 hour later

Day 3 Rest

Day 4, 5, & 6: Fusion - 5-10 gm stearic acid + 2-4 gm ascorbic acid + 20 gm PQQ + 2 caps BroccoMax

Day 7 Rest

 

A basic question I have is how long should this protocol be followed. Should it be considered a short-term intervention or a long-term process? Also, would you need to adjust the protocol after you have completed X number of cycles? As for now, I have committed to one month (4 cycles), but I would appreciate any thoughtful input.

 

 

I've been doing this for about ten weeks and so far I'm quite happy with the results in the gym. I'm of social security age now and I'm getting the results I got twenty years ago with about one tenth the effort. And that's what I intended from the beginning--to take control of natural mito processes and accelerate them. I expect to use this another couple of months or until I get where I want to be, and then use it intermittently as required. So far I'd say that this beats C60 by a good measure. C60 does improve mito function immediately (particularly if you have damaged mitochondria) and better mito function improves cellular health. But C60 doesn't do QC on mitochondria like this does, so this is more likely to produce true and long lasting age reversal.


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#63 Andey

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 05:28 PM

I've been doing this for about ten weeks and so far I'm quite happy with the results in the gym. I'm of social security age now and I'm getting the results I got twenty years ago with about one tenth the effort. And that's what I intended from the beginning--to take control of natural mito processes and accelerate them. I expect to use this another couple of months or until I get where I want to be, and then use it intermittently as required. So far I'd say that this beats C60 by a good measure. C60 does improve mito function immediately (particularly if you have damaged mitochondria) and better mito function improves cellular health. But C60 doesn't do QC on mitochondria like this does, so this is more likely to produce true and long lasting age reversal.

 

1. Are benefits include aerobic excercise or anaerobic and hypertrophy only ?

2. What do you think about combining NR loading phase with fasting  as it should help to increase NAD/NADH even more.


Edited by Andey, 30 May 2017 - 05:28 PM.


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#64 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 06:05 PM

 

I've been doing this for about ten weeks and so far I'm quite happy with the results in the gym. I'm of social security age now and I'm getting the results I got twenty years ago with about one tenth the effort. And that's what I intended from the beginning--to take control of natural mito processes and accelerate them. I expect to use this another couple of months or until I get where I want to be, and then use it intermittently as required. So far I'd say that this beats C60 by a good measure. C60 does improve mito function immediately (particularly if you have damaged mitochondria) and better mito function improves cellular health. But C60 doesn't do QC on mitochondria like this does, so this is more likely to produce true and long lasting age reversal.

 

1. Are benefits include aerobic excercise or anaerobic and hypertrophy only ?

2. What do you think about combining NR loading phase with fasting  as it should help to increase NAD/NADH even more.

 

 

1, The effects are similar to C60, though not as immediately visible. On the other hand, they are not fading either. This is consistent with eliminating defective mitochondria, whereas C60 was probably just covering up the problem.

2. Sure. That was discussed on the first page.


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#65 hotbit

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 12:38 PM

I must admit that I'm quite puzzled by f&f (fusion and fission dynamics) and its relationship with diet - exercise - cold exposure - nicotinamide supplementation. It seems all these factors should be considered in tailoring optimal f&f protocol.

As claimed earlier in the thread, stearic acid promotes fusion, but lard (quite rich in stearic acid) according to this article promotes fission.

While calorie restriction is causing fission, starving promotes fusion.

Lard -> fission, but fish oil -> fusion.

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#66 Turnbuckle

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:48 PM

I must admit that I'm quite puzzled by f&f (fusion and fission dynamics) and its relationship with diet - exercise - cold exposure - nicotinamide supplementation. It seems all these factors should be considered in tailoring optimal f&f protocol.

As claimed earlier in the thread, stearic acid promotes fusion, but lard (quite rich in stearic acid) according to this article promotes fission.

While calorie restriction is causing fission, starving promotes fusion.

Lard -> fission, but fish oil -> fusion.

 

 

Lard isn't rich in stearic acid. According to Wikipedia it only has 12-14%, so the other components are obviously controlling the fission/fusion balance.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 June 2017 - 02:18 PM.


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#67 Andey

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 01:52 PM

I must admit that I'm quite puzzled by f&f (fusion and fission dynamics) and its relationship with diet - exercise - cold exposure - nicotinamide supplementation. It seems all these factors should be considered in tailoring optimal f&f protocol.

As claimed earlier in the thread, stearic acid promotes fusion, but lard (quite rich in stearic acid) according to this article promotes fission.

While calorie restriction is causing fission, starving promotes fusion.

Lard -> fission, but fish oil -> fusion.

 

IMHO )

  My take on it is that "by design" fission/fusion cycles are usually linked to fasting/feeding cycles. Apparently it works in constantly feeded(or fasted) state but less efficiently. What state is it now depends more on previous state and time so studies could generate almost random data.

From my laymans point of view mitochondia by itself should be immortal as they pass to offsprings nonaltered from mother.

Probably one of the main modern man problems is that we always in a fed state, and thats could be one of the main causes why time restricted feeding or intermittent fasting works. 

Turnbuckle`s protocol could robustly initiate fission and fusion would follow no matter what (except of NAD/NADH ratio).


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#68 hotbit

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 06:05 PM

 

Lard isn't rich in stearic acid. According to Wikipedia it only has 12-14%, so the other components are obviously controlling the fission/fusion balance.

 

 

Not many foods have more stearic acid than lard. But leaving aside whether we will call it rich or not, my main point is that fasting / diet / feeding habits might have supportive or counterproductive effect to using nicotinamide in mitochondrial dynamics manipulation.



#69 zorba990

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 12:43 AM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

#70 Turnbuckle

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 03:00 AM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

 

 

I don't know how long it takes for the QC process to work, which involves tagging dysfunctional mitochondria and then engulfing them with lysosomes. However, there's probably no reason to wait more than a few hours, and in fact I tried that the last cycle with stearic acid and large doses of C after 10 hours, and and I didn't see a problem with it. 



#71 Richard McGee

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

 

The persistence of fission and fusion promoting compounds in the body might be a consideration. I'm not sure it's actually necessary, but I've been allowing one day rest periods between fission and fusion cycles, to allow clearance of these compounds from the body.


Edited by Richard McGee, 04 June 2017 - 06:54 AM.


#72 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 11:13 AM

 

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

 

The persistence of fission and fusion promoting compounds in the body might be a consideration. I'm not sure it's actually necessary, but I've been allowing one day rest periods between fission and fusion cycles, to allow clearance of these compounds from the body.

 

 

 

I think it's a matter of degree. The second day of fission is definitely stronger than the first, and doing four days of fission/exercise, as I discovered early on, is disastrously strong. The same is not true for fusion, as there doesn't seem to be any limit except in the very long term, where without fission, defective mitochondria will start to proliferate. However, in doing several days of fusion between fission days, it might be best to limit stearic acid to the first fusion day, as it's half life has been found to be 17 hours in rats, which is rather long. In fact, stearic acid might even be used on the last fission day, spaced out by ten hours or so, along with Vitamin C. Vitamin C, with a short half life of thirty minutes, is not a problem on any fusion day.

 

(As a side note, I was carded in a restaurant the other day, and the waitress was shocked when she looked at my birth date and realized I was old enough to be her grandfather. This was not entirely the result of fission/fusion, however, as I've also been using a dermaroller for the past month. Years ago I tried it and found it did nothing, but once I began using it with a solution of lysine in water, it became amazingly effective.)


Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 June 2017 - 11:18 AM.

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#73 zorba990

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 04:21 PM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)



I don't know how long it takes for the QC process to work, which involves tagging dysfunctional mitochondria and then engulfing them with lysosomes. However, there's probably no reason to wait more than a few hours, and in fact I tried that the last cycle with stearic acid and large doses of C after 10 hours, and and I didn't see a problem with it.


Ok thanks. It appears that suppressing mtor with fasting enhances lysosome function. So that goes along with exercising in fasted state as well (rapamycin does not seem to work )


https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3616426/
"Activation of lysosomal function in the course of autophagy via mTORC1 suppression and autophagosome-lysosome fusion:
Lysosome is a key subcellular organelle in the execution of the autophagic process and at present little is known whether lysosomal function is controlled in the process of autophagy. In this study, we first found that suppression of mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) activity by starvation or two mTOR catalytic inhibitors (PP242 and Torin1), but not by an allosteric inhibitor (rapamycin), leads to activation of lysosomal function. Second, we provided evidence that activation of lysosomal function is associated with the suppression of mTOR complex 1 (mTORC1), but not mTORC2, and the mTORC1 localization to lysosomes is not directly correlated to its regulatory role in lysosomal function...
"

#74 hsibai

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:03 AM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)


The persistence of fission and fusion promoting compounds in the body might be a consideration. I'm not sure it's actually necessary, but I've been allowing one day rest periods between fission and fusion cycles, to allow clearance of these compounds from the body.


I think it's a matter of degree. The second day of fission is definitely stronger than the first, and doing four days of fission/exercise, as I discovered early on, is disastrously strong. The same is not true for fusion, as there doesn't seem to be any limit except in the very long term, where without fission, defective mitochondria will start to proliferate. However, in doing several days of fusion between fission days, it might be best to limit stearic acid to the first fusion day, as it's half life has been found to be 17 hours in rats, which is rather long. In fact, stearic acid might even be used on the last fission day, spaced out by ten hours or so, along with Vitamin C. Vitamin C, with a short half life of thirty minutes, is not a problem on any fusion day.

(As a side note, I was carded in a restaurant the other day, and the waitress was shocked when she looked at my birth date and realized I was old enough to be her grandfather. This was not entirely the result of fission/fusion, however, as I've also been using a dermaroller for the past month. Years ago I tried it and found it did nothing, but once I began using it with a solution of lysine in water, it became amazingly effective.)
I am a 53 yo male and I am quite intrigued by this and other rejuvention/biogenesis topics. My aim is to enjoy my final 2-3 decades in this life by being fit and healthy.

I have just ordered what I need for this protocol from Amazon (Easier for international shipping) but have few questions and I appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Does fasting on fission days mean low calorie diet? How low?
Any thing to avoid, besides Stearic acid foods, on fission days?
What is a good dietary intake on fusion days?

Turnbuckle,
How do you prepare the lysine solution for the derma roller? what concentration?

Live strong & prosper :-)

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#75 hsibai

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:09 AM

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

The persistence of fission and fusion promoting compounds in the body might be a consideration. I'm not sure it's actually necessary, but I've been allowing one day rest periods between fission and fusion cycles, to allow clearance of these compounds from the body.

I think it's a matter of degree. The second day of fission is definitely stronger than the first, and doing four days of fission/exercise, as I discovered early on, is disastrously strong. The same is not true for fusion, as there doesn't seem to be any limit except in the very long term, where without fission, defective mitochondria will start to proliferate. However, in doing several days of fusion between fission days, it might be best to limit stearic acid to the first fusion day, as it's half life has been found to be 17 hours in rats, which is rather long. In fact, stearic acid might even be used on the last fission day, spaced out by ten hours or so, along with Vitamin C. Vitamin C, with a short half life of thirty minutes, is not a problem on any fusion day.

(As a side note, I was carded in a restaurant the other day, and the waitress was shocked when she looked at my birth date and realized I was old enough to be her grandfather. This was not entirely the result of fission/fusion, however, as I've also been using a dermaroller for the past month. Years ago I tried it and found it did nothing, but once I began using it with a solution of lysine in water, it became amazingly effective.)
I am a 53 yo male and I am quite intrigued by this and other rejuvention/biogenesis topics. My aim is to enjoy my final 2-3 decades in this life by being fit and healthy.

I have just ordered what I need for this protocol from Amazon (Easier for international shipping) but have few questions and I appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Does fasting on fission days mean low calorie diet? How low?
Any thing to avoid, besides Stearic acid foods, on fission days?
What is a good dietary intake on fusion days?

Turnbuckle,
How do you prepare the lysine solution for the derma roller? what concentration?

Live strong & prosper :-)

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I plan to use this but it says Niacinamide which I suspect is the same thing as Nicotinamide ?

Source Naturals Niacinamide, 1500mg, 100-Count https://www.amazon.c...a_YbNnzbD7DXGNJ


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#76 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 12:10 PM

Some notes:

 

I'm beginning to suspect that the only requirement after fission/exercise is that the NAD+/NADH ratio be knocked down, and that can be done by taking large doses of Vitamin C--such as 8 grams of C over a couple of hours, which should reduce NAD+ to NADH. Eliminating the stearic acid with its 17 hour half life should make it possible to cycle this every day, if desired. I'm presently on my third consecutive day of N+R+exercise followed ten hours later by Vitamin C, and if I can do four days in a row without the toxic effect I saw in my early experiment with 4 days of pure fission (with no Vitamin C or stearic acid), then that would show that extra stearic acid is not necessary. After all, one gets it in a normal diet anyway, and some fusion will occur when the NAD+/NADH ratio returns to normal. 

 

Nicotinamide (aka, niacinamide) uses up methyl groups, thus supplementing with TMG may be helpful. I am presently using 500 mg TMG a day.

 

I'm taking N+R first thing in the morning and going to the gym 1-2 hours later. Taking it in the afternoon I've found makes it difficult to sleep through the night. 

 

Since I'm not doing fasting or calorie restriction, I can't speak to that from experience.

 

As for the L-lysine solution I mentioned above for use with dermarolling, I use a teaspoon of pure powder in 50 ml water. Don't add anything else to it and it should keep without microbial growth.

 

Someone asked about D-ribose, and yes, that's what I mean by "ribose."

 

Two grams of nicotinamide is a large dose, and I can't yet say if that much is really necessary. There must be a point where all the mitochondria are fissioned, and beyond that excess nicotinamide isn't helpful. I will be trying lower doses soon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#77 Andey

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 12:53 PM

Some notes:

 

Thanks for insights, very helpfull.

Could one replace plain Vitamin C with time release version of it ? 

Is it a good idea to skip multivitamin supllement (or any of B vitamins particularly) on fission days ?

(I have a pretty messed up genetic methylation profile and prefer to take LEF Two per day constantly)


Edited by Andey, 06 June 2017 - 12:53 PM.


#78 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 02:05 PM

Could one replace plain Vitamin C with time release version of it ? 

 

 

Is it a good idea to skip multivitamin supllement (or any of B vitamins particularly) on fission days ?

 

 

 

 

I would not take antioxidants on fission days before exercise, but after exercise it should be okay. As for time release C, I think probably not. Normally NADH can reduce dehydroascorbic acid to Vitamin C, but the reduction can go the other way if sufficient C is present. See this reference. So to reduce NAD+, the goal is to get a large acute dose of C rather than an extended low dose.


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#79 hsibai

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 03:33 PM

Is the non acidic version of Vit C (sodium ascorbate) equally good?
Bronson Vitamin C Non-Acidic Sodium Ascorbate Powder, Non-GMO,1 Kilo (2.2 lbs, 35.3 Ounces) https://www.amazon.c...a_7OSnzbCA1ZZFS



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#80 Turnbuckle

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 08:47 PM

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 


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#81 Richard McGee

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:43 AM

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 

A question on exercise selection: I've been doing weight training and no aerobics on my two fission days. The weight training is low-rep and two or three sets, with weights chosen so as to barely be able to finish. Typically upper body on first  fission day, and lower body on second. Low intensity aerobic exercise only during fusion sequence. Does this sound optimal to you?



#82 Turnbuckle

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 02:39 AM

 

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 

A question on exercise selection: I've been doing weight training and no aerobics on my two fission days. The weight training is low-rep and two or three sets, with weights chosen so as to barely be able to finish. Typically upper body on first  fission day, and lower body on second. Low intensity aerobic exercise only during fusion sequence. Does this sound optimal to you?

 

 

 

I've been doing the reverse, with easy weights that develop a burn, whereas they would never do that normally. I agree that aerobic exercise such as running would be better during fusion.



#83 hsibai

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 03:41 AM

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

So this is my present protocol:

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.
A blank day with PQQ.

Turnbuckle,
Have you dropped the TMG 500mg?

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#84 Andey

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:09 AM

I am little bit obsessed with measuring everything )

There is some correlation between mitochondrial dysfunction and insulin resistance. Some claim that the whole problem of IR is a manifestation of mitochondrial dysfunction.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4261703/

There is no scientific consensus on this matter but it would be a good proof that mytochondrial population is indeed imroved if our members will see change in fasted insulin levels during regular blood test.

 

P.S. Sorry for overcomplicated (and probably ill constructed) sentences )


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#85 Turnbuckle

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:10 PM

 

Turnbuckle,
Have you dropped the TMG 500mg?

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No, I haven't dropped it. In the fact, the results have been rather spectacular when it comes to alcohol tolerance. I should also mention that in addition to using lysine solution with a dermaroller, I also supplement several grams a day orally. Both TMG and lysine have been used for putting on muscle mass with both humans and farm animals, though I only learned of that after I was already taking them. From Wikipedia-Factory farms supplement fodder with TMG and lysine to increase livestocks' muscle mass (and, therefore, "carcass yield", the amount of usable meat).


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#86 hotbit

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:47 PM

It seems Turnbuckle might be on a good track taking nicotinamide in the morning, as there is some evidence of mitochondrial dynamics being intertwined with a circadian rhythm.

 

Talking about circadian rhythm, I have found interesting that apparently melatonin is involved in mitochondrial dynamics (and in a big way).

 

In addition to mitochondrial protection, melatonin also influences mitochondrial dynamics. The daily oscillations of mitochondrial functions as well as the morphology seem to fit well with the melatonin circadian rhythm. Melatonin reduces mitochondrial fission and increases their fusion, thereby preserving their normal function.
Recently, it has been reported that melatonin modified mitophagy by either the enhancement or the reduction of this process, depending on conditions and cell types. The exact mechanisms require further investigation.

 

 

[I've underlined some keywords]
 

Source:

Melatonin: A Mitochondrial Targeting Molecule Involving Mitochondrial ...

 

 Nicotinamide in the morning, melatonin in the evening?

 

Edited by hotbit, 07 June 2017 - 09:52 PM.

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#87 lost69

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:09 PM

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 

Is sodium ascorbate an equally good reducing agent? I don't know, but probably.

 

As my 4-day fission experiment, I started feeling a little weird on day 3, so I chickened out and ended the experiment on the afternoon of the 3rd day with stearic acid.

 

So this is my present protocol:

 

2-3 days of N+R+exercise in the morning, then ascorbic acid in the late afternoon, + stearic acid on the last afternoon only.

A blank day with PQQ.

 

in your opinion is there a way to mix your protocol to clear bad mitochondria with C60, NR, GDF11?

 

i am very interested because i can feel power going away even stopping C60,mitoQ or NR even for few days...so i m definitely buiding also bad mitochondria.

 

what i was thinking is alternate weeks:

one week of your protocol and no other supp but gdf11

one week few days a week C60, NR every day at 500mg,mito q every day, Gdf11 every day at the correct low dose, weak telomerase activators every day

 

to your opinion and experience...does this "weekly schedule" make sense?

 


Edited by lost69, 07 June 2017 - 11:16 PM.


#88 lost69

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:12 PM

 

My question is what is the reason for waiting on fusion for another day? Shouldn't fission maximization be relatively over when the stress of exercise subsides? I mean unless you are going to fast afterwards it seems that fission and fusion only require seconds to complete. http://journals.plos...al.pone.0095265. (Time-lapse images of U2OS cells stably expressing mito_EYFP demonstrate fission and fusion events in real time)

 

 

I don't know how long it takes for the QC process to work, which involves tagging dysfunctional mitochondria and then engulfing them with lysosomes. However, there's probably no reason to wait more than a few hours, and in fact I tried that the last cycle with stearic acid and large doses of C after 10 hours, and and I didn't see a problem with it. 

 

in your opinion is there a way to mix your protocol to clear bad mitochondria with C60, NR, GDF11?

 

i am very interested because i can feel power going away even stopping C60,mitoQ or NR even for few days...so i m definitely buiding also bad mitochondria.

 

what i was thinking is alternate weeks:

one week of your protocol and no other supp but gdf11

one week few days a week C60, NR every day at 500mg,mito q every day, Gdf11 every day at the correct low dose, weak telomerase activators every day

 

to your opinion and experience...does this "weekly schedule" make sense to control bad mito ?


Edited by lost69, 07 June 2017 - 11:15 PM.


#89 ambivalent

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:54 PM

Hi Turnbuckle:

 

Thanks once again for your reporting and experimentation

 

Derma rolling - what is exacty your protocol with lysine? Do you make it into a thin paste and leave it on for a while? Just to clarify, a few grams of Lysine and 500mg of TMG orally?

 

Some of the benefits and negaitve effects you described (injuries, tiredness) occurred with my very high dose experiment with NR. Have you noticed heightened attention, clarity/ changes in facial mass, lines?

 

Finally would you leave out l-carnosine on fission days?

 

 



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#90 Turnbuckle

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 11:55 PM

in your opinion is there a way to mix your protocol to clear bad mitochondria with C60, NR, GDF11?

 

 

 

i am very interested because i can feel power going away even stopping C60,mitoQ or NR even for few days...so i m definitely buiding also bad mitochondria.

 

what i was thinking is alternate weeks:

one week of your protocol and no other supp but gdf11

one week few days a week C60, NR every day at 500mg,mito q every day, Gdf11 every day at the correct low dose, weak telomerase activators every day

 

to your opinion and experience...does this "weekly schedule" make sense?

 

 

IMO, C60 is not good with this protocol and I'm not taking it at present for that reason. I'm not even taking it as you suggest, as I've found the N+R protocol to be too good by itself. I would also not take MitoQ or any other anti-oxidant with the fission/exercise phase, though I expect it would be okay during the fusion phase. Telomerase activators might be okay, depending on what they are. With GDF11, I have no idea. As for NR, that's the same as N+R, as NR has to be digested back to N+R before it can be absorbed (at least in rats, as no human data has been published). Thus 2g of N and 2g (or more) of R should be equivalent to 4g of NR. The major difference is that N+R will be much faster acting.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nad, nad+, c60, mito, fission, fusion, stearic acid, mtdna, methylene blue

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