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Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics

nad nad+ c60 mito fission fusion stearic acid mtdna methylene blue

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#31 Valijon

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 05:07 PM

I have broccoli sprout extract. It tastes horrific. I don't want to cap the stuff. Anything to mask the taste? I mean I've taken all kind of raw chemicals that were very nasty. NAM is right up there but, I've never taken anything this gross. Its on an entirely other level.
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#32 Oakman

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:57 PM

I have broccoli sprout extract. It tastes horrific. I don't want to cap the stuff. Anything to mask the taste? I mean I've taken all kind of raw chemicals that were very nasty. NAM is right up there but, I've never taken anything this gross. Its on an entirely other level.

 

Try making a smoothie of it and some fruit with a strong taste in a blender. I normally use blackberries, maybe add some strawberries or blueberries, and occasionally some pomegranate concentrate. It pretty much makes it totally disappear (the taste of  the extract). The amt I use is about 1 cup with some water and the extract.



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#33 zorba990

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 12:41 AM

One tablespoon duda stearic acid in morning smoothie no problem so far. A little gritty.
Yesterday 2g NAM with 5g Ribose one full day at the zoo with a 3 year old :-)

I do find that days taking the fission supplements I feel pretty wiped out afterwards, but I've only done it 3 times so far. I wouldn't necessarily reccomended it on high intensity bodybuilding or powerlifting days. No idea about strength or body recostituting yet...

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#34 zorba990

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 03:29 AM

I think I got butyrate wrong, and its more apropriate on fission days directly after fission has been maximized. As I understand it the bad mitochondria culling is enhanced by butyrate through enhanced Bax signalling.

"Initiation of growth arrest and apoptosis of MCF-7 mammary carcinoma cells by tributyrin, a triglyceride analogue of the short-chain fatty acid butyrate, is associated with mitochondrial activity."
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10197633

Sodium butyrate has a shorter half life But tributyrin is only available to pig farmers to correct the intestinal holes that gmo corn causes.


"Molecular biology of Bax and Bak activation and action"
http://www.sciencedi...167488910003368
"Bax and Bak are two nuclear-encoded proteins present in higher eukaryotes that are able to pierce the mitochondrial outer membrane to mediate cell death by apoptosis. Thus, organelles recruited by nucleated cells to supply energy can be recruited by Bax and Bak to kill cells. The two proteins lie in wait in healthy cells where they adopt a globular α-helical structure, seemingly as monomers. Following a variety of stress signals, they convert into pore-forming proteins by changing conformation and assembling into oligomeric complexes in the mitochondrial outer membrane. Proteins from the mitochondrial intermembrane space then empty into the cytosol to activate proteases that dismantle the cell. The arrangement of Bax and Bak in membrane-bound complexes, and how the complexes porate the membrane, is far from being understood. However, recent data indicate that they first form symmetric BH3:groove dimers which can be linked via an interface between the α6-helices to form high order oligomers. Here, we review how Bax and Bak change conformation and oligomerize, as well as how oligomers might form a pore. This article is part of a Special Issue entitled Mitochondria: the deadly organelle."

#35 mag1

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:31 AM

Mitochondrial transplantation: From animal models to clinical use in humans.

PMID: 28342934

 

 

Thought y'all should know about this one.

Anyone have a comment on what this might mean for cancer therapy?


Edited by mag1, 14 May 2017 - 06:08 AM.

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#36 mag1

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:56 AM

"Our results show that 10 min following mitochondrial transplantation myocardial function is significantly enhanced as compared to hearts receiving injection of respiration media (vehicle) alone and that this function remains enhanced for at least 28 days–the end point of our studies"

 

"The methodology for the isolation of mitochondria for use in mitochondrial transplantation is simple and rapid and can be performed in under 30 min. The freshly isolated tissue is homogenized using a commercial automated homogenizer ..."
 
The US recorded over 600,000 heart disease deaths in 2013.
Wonder when mitochondrial therapy might be viewed as an acceptable treatment?
 
 

Edited by mag1, 14 May 2017 - 05:59 AM.

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#37 Andey

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 07:09 AM

Hi there ) 

This is copy from discussion in NR curated thread., 

1. NR is being created in the cells, most likely, either with NR or N+R dosing, not in a medium.

 

 

 

2. That is possible. Certainly ribose alone has some advantages for energy, though possibly for other reasons.

3. Likely true. Thus taking a greater than stoichiometric dose of ribose is warranted.

 

There is a thread here on whether NR is broken down during digestion that dates from 2015, but there was no satisfactory conclusion-- Is nicotinamide riboside (NR) broken down into nicotinamide (NAM) before it's absorbed?

 

Ultimately I don't care whether NR is better or worse than N+R, as I'm using levels of N+R that seem to be maxed out for what I want to achieve, and that's the fissioning of mitochondria prior to exercise. For example, I can't tell the difference between 2 and 3 grams NAM + 5 grams ribose. This would presumably equal 4 and 6 grams of NR (assuming that NR is broken down and reconstituted). Once all the mitochondria are fissioned, then that would be the limit no matter how much you took, and I suspect I'm close to that. So I'm using fissioning via N+R as a way of enhancing exercise, and for that is seems exceptional. In fact, I would rank it much higher than C60 in this regard. While C60 allowed me to use a great deal more weight in the gym, I eventually realized I wasn't gaining anything from it as a workout aid, and in fact C60 likely interferes with the quality control process. With N+R, by contrast, I can lift much less weight, yet I'm gaining muscle mass at rate that I haven't in 15 or 20 years, but with a much lighter workout (I am presently in social security territory). I'd expect NR to work the same way, given a large enough dose. The most I've taken of it is one gram, and while I didn't see anything, I probably didn't allow enough time for NAD+ to build up, as NAD+ appears to be slower to reach a peak with NR (which you would expect if it has to be digested).

 

I'm presently alternating mitochondrial fission with fusion, as both are needed for mitochondrial health. One day of fission/exercise and then two days of fusion/biogenesis. This is discussed in Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics.

 

 

 

  Thanks )

 Actually I could somewhat support your approach. I ve tried to cycle NR/sulforaphane after your comments weeks ago that NR and sulforaphane contradict each other action in regards of mito fission/fusion.

With low dosages of NR there wasnt apparent difference in comparision with constant administration, but this week I took 750 mg and 500 mg for 2 days, then Broccomax in following days. On the 5th day I have a feeling that I have a spare battery or two while doing prolonged walk (around 5 km brisk walk partly uphill). All anecdotal of course but I go this route often and I feel as it was definitely noticeable like +40%. And I dont sure if Broccomax done anything as I took minimal dosages, maybe it about cycling highish NR dosages.

This post is out of place here, I will duplicate it in Manipulating mitochondrial dynamics.

 

P.S. I will order NAM and ribose and will try it too but it would be months from now as I cant find it locally.


Edited by Andey, 14 May 2017 - 07:37 AM.

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#38 SearchHorizon

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 12:45 PM

What would be the optimal frequency for dosing NAM+R? 

 

I realize that some are taking NAM+$ every 3-4 days. Wouldn't it be more optimum to take NAM+R every 2 days?

 

In one's body, NAM concentration (in cells or plasma) is modulated according to circadian rhythm. The amount of melatonin directly affects the level of NAM. Based on this rationale, it appears that, for the maximum effect, one should be taking NAM+R once a day.

 

After I take NAM+R, I feel its vasodilation effect for at least 3 days.

 

 



#39 BigLabRat

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 12:59 PM

One tablespoon duda stearic acid in morning smoothie no problem so far. A little gritty.
Yesterday 2g NAM with 5g Ribose one full day at the zoo with a 3 year old :-)

I do find that days taking the fission supplements I feel pretty wiped out afterwards, but I've only done it 3 times so far. I wouldn't necessarily reccomended it on high intensity bodybuilding or powerlifting days. No idea about strength or body recostituting yet...

 

NAM is taken by many people (including myself) as an occasional sleep aid. For me, it is at least as effective as melatonin.

 

That may account for the 'wiped out' feeling.



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#40 SearchHorizon

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 03:44 AM

Having read the second reference Turnbuckle provided in his original post, it appears that a high NAD/NADH ratio is one of the conditions for fission/fusion. However, it is NOT the sole factor. It also appears that to initiate the process of mitochondrial rejuvenation, one also needs to have SIRT1 activation in addition to a high NAD/NADH level.

 

What this seems imply is that maintaining a high level of NAD through daily NAM+R ingestion does NOT by itself cause fission. You need some sort of stress, which then gets translated through SIRT1 activation.

 

Put differently, taking NAM+R every day should not hurt you - although, it could be a waste of money.



#41 Turnbuckle

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:30 AM

Having read the second reference Turnbuckle provided in his original post, it appears that a high NAD/NADH ratio is one of the conditions for fission/fusion. However, it is NOT the sole factor. It also appears that to initiate the process of mitochondrial rejuvenation, one also needs to have SIRT1 activation in addition to a high NAD/NADH level.

 

What this seems imply is that maintaining a high level of NAD through daily NAM+R ingestion does NOT by itself cause fission. You need some sort of stress, which then gets translated through SIRT1 activation.

 

Put differently, taking NAM+R every day should not hurt you - although, it could be a waste of money.

 

A couple of points:

 

1--Money is not a consideration, as 2 grams of NAM and 5 grams of ribose will set you back around 75 cents.

 

2--SIRT1 is activated by NR, which is created in the cells with N+R--

 

 

We show that NR supplementation in mammalian cells and mouse tissues increases NAD(+) levels and activates SIRT1 and SIRT3

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22682224

 

 

Taking this much N+R on a daily basis could present a major problem, however, as all fission and no fusion is not wise. A couple of months ago when I first began this, I tried this dose 4 days in a row, going to the gym and using very light weights for 20-40 minutes per day. (See the exercise like a girl protocol.) I felt a soreness building up slowly day by day, but nothing bad until the end of the fourth day, when I began to feel beat up, like I'd been in a car accident. This took a week to pass, and worse, I also picked up an ankle and knee injury. These seemed to come out of the blue as I could remember no incidents that would justify it. The ankle took 2 weeks to heal and the knee is still not 100%.

 

So this is why I began the one day of fission + exercise, then two days of fusion + biogenesis. I expect that once the majority of defective mitochondria are gone, then alternate days of fission and fission might be okay. However, there is another possible problem with doing fission too frequently. As SearchHorizon noted above, it's the NAD+/NADH ratio that is required for fission, not the actual level of NAD+. I expect that loading with all this NAM and ribose will raise that initially, but then it will become more difficult to get to the same ratio as NAD+ converts to NADH and builds up, and thus with the denominator rising, the ratio naturally falls. Yet another concern is the rate of disposal of defective mitochondria in lysosomes and the rate of creation of new mitochondria via biogenesis. Twenty four hours might be pushing it, however, I haven't found a reference to give guidance.


Edited by Turnbuckle, 15 May 2017 - 09:35 AM.

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#42 SearchHorizon

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:06 AM

Turnbuckle - Thanks for the clarification. I had been taking NAM+R twice a day (2 g or so each time) for 2 weeks, and I had no issues. However, I didn't exercise during most of those days. I did experience a burnout of sorts after few days, but it went away. Let me think some more and see if I can understand this better.

 



#43 Robt800

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:06 PM

I'd love to try this protocol - anything to upgrade mitochondria and I'm game!

 

The only thing stopping me is the possibility of affecting metthylation.  I feel pretty great while taking high dose methylB12 and active folate (35mg and 8mg respectively), but prior to methylation support things were coming apart - terrible IBS, brainfog, no energy etc.  I'm keen not to go back!

 

on the CFS forums niacin is usually mentioned as stopping methylation fairly abruptly.  So I suppose the question is: is there a way on instigating fission without NAM?

 

Also Turnbuckle how is the protocol going in general - have you found improvements?



#44 Turnbuckle

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

I'd love to try this protocol - anything to upgrade mitochondria and I'm game!

 

The only thing stopping me is the possibility of affecting metthylation.  I feel pretty great while taking high dose methylB12 and active folate (35mg and 8mg respectively), but prior to methylation support things were coming apart - terrible IBS, brainfog, no energy etc.  I'm keen not to go back!

 

on the CFS forums niacin is usually mentioned as stopping methylation fairly abruptly.  So I suppose the question is: is there a way on instigating fission without NAM?

 

Also Turnbuckle how is the protocol going in general - have you found improvements?

 

 

See post #3. This is still valid except I've stopped taking the glutathione precursors as I don't see a need for them. As for methylation, one metabolite of nicotinamide is methylnicotinamide, so it appears that taking a lot of nicotinamide would reduce the methyl donors available. The answer might be to be supplement with more of the methyl donors such as you are now taking. In any case, most of the nicotinamide should be gone in 24 hours.



#45 Robt800

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:27 PM

 

I'd love to try this protocol - anything to upgrade mitochondria and I'm game!

 

The only thing stopping me is the possibility of affecting metthylation.  I feel pretty great while taking high dose methylB12 and active folate (35mg and 8mg respectively), but prior to methylation support things were coming apart - terrible IBS, brainfog, no energy etc.  I'm keen not to go back!

 

on the CFS forums niacin is usually mentioned as stopping methylation fairly abruptly.  So I suppose the question is: is there a way on instigating fission without NAM?

 

Also Turnbuckle how is the protocol going in general - have you found improvements?

 

 

See post #3. This is still valid except I've stopped taking the glutathione precursors as I don't see a need for them. As for methylation, one metabolite of nicotinamide is methylnicotinamide, so it appears that taking a lot of nicotinamide would reduce the methyl donors available. The answer might be to be supplement with more of the methyl donors such as you are now taking. In any case, most of the nicotinamide should be gone in 24 hours.

 

 

You've persuaded me (not that I think you were trying to!).  Monday is usually a good day for me (quieter) - I'll get the stearic acid ordered as I have everything else and give it a whirl.

 

I do fast all day monday also - just as an aside point.

 

You mention more muscle in post 3.  How about energy in general?  did you have any issues prior and any improvements since?

 



#46 mag1

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:28 PM

Please join the conversation about the start of the Mitochondrial Replacement Era!

Love to hear your thoughts. 

 

http://www.longecity...ed/#entry815950



#47 zorba990

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:06 AM

Should I be concerned that the bulk stearic acid products appear to be a hydrogenated form of stearic acid? First would it he harmful, and second would it even work as a signalling molecule ? I'm aware oleic acid can be hydrogenated to stearic acid but that doesn't seem to be what the below is describing:

https://www.mountain...ic-acid/profile
"Though Stearic acid occurs naturally in vegetable and animal fats, it does have to undergo a hydrogenation process to convert it to the end product which is currently bought and sold as the Stearic acid we have all come to know. Hydrogenation is a process in which liquid vegetable oils are converted to solid or semi-solid fats. It refers to a chemical reaction in which “unsaturated” bonds between carbon atoms are “reduced” by attachment of a hydrogen atom to each carbon. The process results in the “saturation” of the atoms and eventually converts unsaturated fatty acids to saturated ones. The end result is a white, waxy, natural fatty acid"

#48 Turnbuckle

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 02:33 AM

Should I be concerned that the bulk stearic acid products appear to be a hydrogenated form of stearic acid? 

 

Food grade from Amazon appears to be 99+% stearic acid, though it's always wise to read the spec. Hydrogenation is just one way to make it. 



#49 BigLabRat

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:12 AM

Should I be concerned that the bulk stearic acid products appear to be a hydrogenated form of stearic acid? First would it he harmful, and second would it even work as a signalling molecule ? I'm aware oleic acid can be hydrogenated to stearic acid but that doesn't seem to be what the below is describing:

https://www.mountain...ic-acid/profile
"Though Stearic acid occurs naturally in vegetable and animal fats, it does have to undergo a hydrogenation process to convert it to the end product which is currently bought and sold as the Stearic acid we have all come to know. Hydrogenation is a process in which liquid vegetable oils are converted to solid or semi-solid fats. It refers to a chemical reaction in which “unsaturated” bonds between carbon atoms are “reduced” by attachment of a hydrogen atom to each carbon. The process results in the “saturation” of the atoms and eventually converts unsaturated fatty acids to saturated ones. The end result is a white, waxy, natural fatty acid"

 

First, I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to MountainRoseHerbs' description, as they are actually quite confused. Most of the supply of stearic acid is from breaking up the triglyceride backbone into three stearic acid subunits. Some is also made from hydrogenation of unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acids. BUt it mke no sense talk about hydrogenating stearic acid itself.

 

Stearic acid by definition is a saturated fatty acid. If it isn't fully hydrogenated, it isn't stearic acid. Stearic acid is stearic acid, whether extracted from a mixture of fats, or from saponifying the triglyceride, or created by hydrogenating an unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acid.

 

Second, why would you be concerned? I actually don't understand the question. I know some people freak out about 'hydrogenation,' as it creates saturated fats from unsaturated fats. But if you want stearic acid, you want a saturated fat.



#50 zorba990

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 04:53 AM

Should I be concerned that the bulk stearic acid products appear to be a hydrogenated form of stearic acid? First would it he harmful, and second would it even work as a signalling molecule ? I'm aware oleic acid can be hydrogenated to stearic acid but that doesn't seem to be what the below is describing:

https://www.mountain...ic-acid/profile
"Though Stearic acid occurs naturally in vegetable and animal fats, it does have to undergo a hydrogenation process to convert it to the end product which is currently bought and sold as the Stearic acid we have all come to know. Hydrogenation is a process in which liquid vegetable oils are converted to solid or semi-solid fats. It refers to a chemical reaction in which “unsaturated” bonds between carbon atoms are “reduced” by attachment of a hydrogen atom to each carbon. The process results in the “saturation” of the atoms and eventually converts unsaturated fatty acids to saturated ones. The end result is a white, waxy, natural fatty acid"


First, I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to MountainRoseHerbs' description, as they are actually quite confused. Most of the supply of stearic acid is from breaking up the triglyceride backbone into three stearic acid subunits. Some is also made from hydrogenation of unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acids. BUt it mke no sense talk about hydrogenating stearic acid itself.

Stearic acid by definition is a saturated fatty acid. If it isn't fully hydrogenated, it isn't stearic acid. Stearic acid is stearic acid, whether extracted from a mixture of fats, or from saponifying the triglyceride, or created by hydrogenating an unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acid.

Second, why would you be concerned? I actually don't understand the question. I know some people freak out about 'hydrogenation,' as it creates saturated fats from unsaturated fats. But if you want stearic acid, you want a saturated fat.

I'm not concerned with it being a saturated fat. I see descriptions for stearic acid and dihydroxystearic acid (which seems to bind up vitamin k) I cannot determine via web searches if they are the same chemical. However, if the method of purification is by breaking tristearin they it seems it would the pure flat stearic acid.

#51 hotbit

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 09:13 PM

Does anybody know if there is food grade stearic acid available in the UK? I've only seen 'pure' stearic acid sold as an ingredient for candle making...

 


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#52 Andey

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 05:20 PM

Does anybody know if there is food grade stearic acid available in the UK? I've only seen 'pure' stearic acid sold as an ingredient for candle making...

 

 

 

  Eat dark chocolate or bacon, or pork. I dont see any particular reason to search only for pure acid. 

Come on, its probably the most common fatty acid in existence. (for that reason I dont buy the idea that its  so robust in inducing fusion in vivo)


Edited by Andey, 20 May 2017 - 05:24 PM.


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#53 Heisok

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:43 PM

Assuming that the 30% plus Stearic Acid content is true, then if one wanted to avoid chocolates other ingredients, Cocoa Butter is a possibility. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia...ki/Cocoa_butter

 

Elsewhere it has been posted that D-Ribose can cause glycation problems. Here is Life Extensions comment related to the issue, based on the science at the time. It was part of a discussion related to up to 15 grams, three times a day for Fybromialgia spread out as 3 doses of 5 grams.  The article also discusses possible benefits for other issues. If anybody has more current studies about the issue of Glycation, it would be great. Otherwise, it does not worry me.

http://www.lifeexten...abolism/page-02

 

Ungrounded Fear: Can D-Ribose Cause Glycation Reactions?

It is now generally accepted that d-ribose supplementation provides many health benefits, particularly in the area of cellular energy management.

Several recent publications, however, have raised the question of whether d-ribose—because it is a sugar—could possibly contribute to development of harmful advanced glycation endproducts.40-43

The truth seems to be straightforward: Like any sugar, ribose can indeed cause protein glycation, with resulting damage to tissues.42 And when ribose is administered experimentally at the same high dose as glucose, ribose quickly causes the protein cross-linking that is the outcome of glycation.40

But those studies used artificially high doses and concentrations of ribose, levels never found in humans—even after high-dose supplementation.

For example, in a human study of d-ribose supplementation at doses of 20 and 53 grams over a 4-hour period, peak serum ribose levels rose to only 4.8 mg/dL and 81.7 mg/dL, respectively.44

But doses used in the glycation experiments were significantly higher, up to 30 times higher than achievable in human blood!42,43

And in an experiment showing that d-ribose induced glycation and impaired spatial cognition in mice, the ribose concentrations used were equivalent to blood levels of 150 to 750 mg/dL, clearly vastly higher than have been used in human studies.43,44

Researchers seeking to show that ribose-induced glycation could enhance cartilage damage in an animal model of osteoarthritis showed conclusively that even direct injection of ribose into the joint was incapable of triggering sufficient glycation to cause injury!45,46

The doses for d-ribose studies reported in this article—15 to 60 grams per day in divided doses—are incapable of causing serum ribose concentrations high enough to get anywhere near the risk of excessive glycation reported in the lab studies.44

Also, most human studies recommended splitting the total amount into three daily doses; this approach provides even greater assurance that serum d-ribose remains well within safe levels.

 

Bioenergy manufactures D-Ribose. They have a great deal of information on their site related to the issue of it's effect on Insulin and Blood Glucose. Here is a summary, and a link to the 7 page discussion is part of the way down the page. I took a dose of 5 grams daily for many years, and never experienced obvious hypoglycemia, but did not test blood sugars during that period. If Insulin does go up for a short time, I might have to weigh that possible issue.

 

http://www.bioenergy...linical-studies

 

Effect of D-Ribose on Insulin and Blood Glucose: A Chronological Examination (2003)

"Summary

The effect of D-ribose (ribose) on insulin secretion and plasma glucose has been investigated since 1957, when the effect of insulin on the transport of various sugars, including ribose, across cell membranes was first studied. Over the decades, research has consistently shown that oral or intravenous ribose administration produces a transient, asymptomatic, and dose dependant decrease in plasma blood glucose to a nadir that is reached 30- to 75-minutes post-administration, before returning to baseline levels in approximately 60- to 120-minutes once administration is discontinued. The mechanism of this blood glucose lowering effect has not been fully elucidated, but several have been studied and more than one appear to contribute to the effect. Suggested mechanisms include direct stimulation of insulin secretion by the pancreas, indirect stimulation of insulin secretion by the liver and other tissues, a saturation of carbohydrate receptors in the liver and various tissues affecting insulin release, increased glucose utilization or decreased glucose production resulting from rising levels of blood ribose, and the competition in the liver for the enzyme phosphoglucomutase responsible for glycogen recruitment. Increased glucose utilization does not appear to materially contribute to the mechanism. Instead, the blood glucose lowering effect of ribose appears to result from a combination of factors including indirect stimulation of pancreatic insulin secretion, stimulation of humoral effectors causing secretion of minor, but important, amounts of insulin from tissues in the hepatic-portal pathway, and delayed glucose recruitment in the liver, likely due to competition for phosphoglucomutase activity."


Edited by Heisok, 22 May 2017 - 06:45 PM.

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#54 Turnbuckle

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:04 PM

If you take N+R in the morning and then exercise a hour or two later, dietary intake of stearic acid should not be a problem, especially if you're doing a one day fission followed by two days fusion. Though ultimately one day of fission may not be sufficient. After doing that protocol for a couple of months and finding it progressively harder to get the burn I was getting initially, I've gone to a four day protocol with two days of fission/exercise and two days of fusion. The second day of exercise gets me back to the easy burn I experienced initially. I do avoid foods containing a lot of stearic acid during that first day of fission, but I don't worry about it for the other days.


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#55 BigLabRat

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:15 PM

 

 

Should I be concerned that the bulk stearic acid products appear to be a hydrogenated form of stearic acid? First would it he harmful, and second would it even work as a signalling molecule ? I'm aware oleic acid can be hydrogenated to stearic acid but that doesn't seem to be what the below is describing:

https://www.mountain...ic-acid/profile
"Though Stearic acid occurs naturally in vegetable and animal fats, it does have to undergo a hydrogenation process to convert it to the end product which is currently bought and sold as the Stearic acid we have all come to know. Hydrogenation is a process in which liquid vegetable oils are converted to solid or semi-solid fats. It refers to a chemical reaction in which “unsaturated” bonds between carbon atoms are “reduced” by attachment of a hydrogen atom to each carbon. The process results in the “saturation” of the atoms and eventually converts unsaturated fatty acids to saturated ones. The end result is a white, waxy, natural fatty acid"


First, I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to MountainRoseHerbs' description, as they are actually quite confused. Most of the supply of stearic acid is from breaking up the triglyceride backbone into three stearic acid subunits. Some is also made from hydrogenation of unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acids. BUt it mke no sense talk about hydrogenating stearic acid itself.

Stearic acid by definition is a saturated fatty acid. If it isn't fully hydrogenated, it isn't stearic acid. Stearic acid is stearic acid, whether extracted from a mixture of fats, or from saponifying the triglyceride, or created by hydrogenating an unsaturated 18-carbon fatty acid.

Second, why would you be concerned? I actually don't understand the question. I know some people freak out about 'hydrogenation,' as it creates saturated fats from unsaturated fats. But if you want stearic acid, you want a saturated fat.

I'm not concerned with it being a saturated fat. I see descriptions for stearic acid and dihydroxystearic acid (which seems to bind up vitamin k) I cannot determine via web searches if they are the same chemical. However, if the method of purification is by breaking tristearin they it seems it would the pure flat stearic acid.

 

 

Dihydroxystearic acid is a completely different compound, so you should be safe.



#56 StanG

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 12:02 AM

I got my Stearic and took 5-6 grams. I take NR three days weekly twice daily 205 and 333mg. I went to the gym the day after a dose of NR taking Stearic earlier. I just felt full of energy and wondered why I burned over 330 calories instead of my usual 320 and it seemed easier. Even the weights felt easier but I didn't know why. It wasn't till two days later that I realized the only thing that had changed was that I took Stearic. I take so many different supplements that adding a new one doesn't produce a noticeable change but this one did. 


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#57 Andey

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:41 AM

Looks like madam Clement struck gold with her 1 kilo of chocolate per week )



#58 aribadabar

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 08:14 PM

Looks like madam Clement struck gold with her 1 kilo of chocolate per week )

Calment.

 

She struck another gold nugget with her liberal EVOO use ( oral& topical) for its Hydroxytyrosol, Oleocanthal and Oleuropein content.



#59 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:58 AM

A note on fusion after N+R fission: While the N+R elevated NAD+/NADH ratio will decline naturally, this appears to occur far slower than one might expect. So taking stearic acid is probably not sufficient. One must also reduce oxidized NAD+ back to NADH by taking a reducing agent such as ascorbic acid. This is my updated protocol--

 

Two days of fission: N+R and exercise (one morning dose of 2g nicotinamide + 5g ribose per day, with exercise beginning 1-2 hours later), and

Two days of fusion: 5-10g stearic acid 1-2 times a day, plus 2-4 g C.

 

 

------------------------------

The NR promoter's personal experiments with NR shows that NAD+ can be elevated for a very long time. See Fig. 2b, where at 200 hours it is still substantially elevated over the baseline.

 

And from another researcher, seems that this can be brought down--

 

Large enough doses of Vitamin C can directly and rapidly convert NADP+ back to NADPH, and NAD+ back to NADH... 

 

https://www.cosmicpe...th_summary.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#60 lourdaud

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 02:06 PM

 

Having read the second reference Turnbuckle provided in his original post, it appears that a high NAD/NADH ratio is one of the conditions for fission/fusion. However, it is NOT the sole factor. It also appears that to initiate the process of mitochondrial rejuvenation, one also needs to have SIRT1 activation in addition to a high NAD/NADH level.

 

What this seems imply is that maintaining a high level of NAD through daily NAM+R ingestion does NOT by itself cause fission. You need some sort of stress, which then gets translated through SIRT1 activation.

 

Put differently, taking NAM+R every day should not hurt you - although, it could be a waste of money.

 

A couple of points:

 

1--Money is not a consideration, as 2 grams of NAM and 5 grams of ribose will set you back around 75 cents.

 

2--SIRT1 is activated by NR, which is created in the cells with N+R--

 

 

 

Where do you buy your d-ribose?
 







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nad, nad+, c60, mito, fission, fusion, stearic acid, mtdna, methylene blue

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