11 replies to this topic

[Baten]

Came across this study, what is longecity's thoughs on it? Coffee seems to positively influence telomere length.

Caffeine by itself seems to do the opposite.

 

"Caffeine intake is pervasive throughout much of the world. It has been linked to a number of beneficial and detrimental health consequences. Unfortunately, much of the epidemiologic research on the effects of caffeine has focused on coffee intake, not caffeine.

 

The present study, which investigated the relationships between caffeine and coffee intakes and telomere length, shows that as caffeine intake increases, telomeres tend to be shorter in U.S. adults. On the other hand, this investigation indicates that as coffee intake increases, telomeres tend to be longer.

 

Because telomere length is a biomarker of the senescence of cells, the present findings suggest that cell aging may be accelerated in U.S. adults as caffeine intake increases, but may be decelerated as coffee consumption increases.

 

Given the magnitude and importance of these relationships, additional research is warranted."

→ source (external link)

 

 

 

 

I consume quite a lot of caffeïne through supplements, I wonder if it's really so much worse than a real cup of quality coffee.

Edited by Baten, 19 May 2017 - 02:45 PM.

[tunt01]

I wish I could see a study that controls for two other variables in coffee/caffeine consumption:   1)  the SNP for caffeine metabolism  and 2)  a measurement or index for how well organized the person's daily routine is.  

 

RE:  #1 - SNP

 

I wonder if people who are frequent coffee drinkers self-select because they have high enzymatic processing of caffeine.  I have a family member who literally drinks coffee all day long and even an hour before sleep.  I repeatedly pestered this person for years about their bad coffee drinking habits.  To my surprise, I found out the person is a high metabolizer of caffeine and it does not effect them like others.

 

RE:  #2 - daily routine

 

Given the recent research we are seeing on circadian rhythm, I wonder/hypothesize that high caffeine consumption may be a coincident biomarker for good circadian control and daily routine.  Perhaps people who drink low/small amounts of caffeine are marking on their NHANES survey that they drink coffee only in small amounts to help them get through the day or that they are constantly sleep deprived and use caffeine to power through the day.  Maybe their daily lives are disorganized such that caffeine is a crutch vs. part of a highly organized routine.  How does that translate to telomere length?  It would be interesting to disentangle any confounding behavior here.

 

 

[Andey]

Study does not make much sense for me. It means that caffeine is bad but phenolitics in coffee are beneficial and outweights negative effect.

So decaf coffee should be the best choice, or not ? )

[Dorian Grey]

The fast metabolizer / slow metabolizer confounding issue is intriguing.  I became interested in coffee & caffeine as it relates to liver health, particularly in alcohol consuming populations.  

 

This paper: Less Smad2 is Good for you! http://onlinelibrary...2/hep.23097/pdf

 

indicates it is in fact the caffeine, or more accurately the metabolites of caffeine ( various xanthines) responsible for the liver protective properties of coffee.   One of these xanthines, "theobromine" is found in cacao / chocolate, which has its own health/longevity properties.  

 

I recall Jeanne Calment, the worlds longest lived person (lived to 122), said she ate nearly a kilo of chocolate every week, which indicated lots of theobromine didn't seem to hurt her telomeres all that much.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.../Jeanne_Calment

 

In looking into xanthines, and their possible health benefits, I found xanthine oxidase (XO), and some of it's adverse effects on health; specifically, the liberation of reactive iron from ferritin.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1147813/

 

I came to believe the benefit of dietary xanthines may be that they reduced possible adverse effects of xanthine oxidase in the body by lowering XO, but I never fully researched this theory.  

 

It may well be slow metabolizers of caffeine are adversely affected by its consumption, but the benefits of xanthine (metabolites of caffeine) in normal metabolizers would seem to outweigh this?  An interesting conundrum I'd like to see resolved.  

[Mind]

Epidemiological evidence for positive health effects and disease prevention by coffee and even caffeine alone, is very strong. Here is just one of numerous positive studies: http://content.iospr...sease/jad120319

 

Don't over think it. If you like coffee and are not worried about the physical addiction aspects, drink it up and stay healthier.

[Dorian Grey]

Congratulations to Mind on his 15,000th post, & thanks so much for that link.  

 

My girlfriend (61) has been exhibiting signs of cognitive decline, & I hadn't seen the potentially beneficial effects of caffeine.  

 

Let's dig into this deeper!  

[aconita]

My girlfriend (61) has been exhibiting signs of cognitive decline

 

For that matter I found a worrying cognitive impairment in most of my girlfriends in disregard of their age...I should try to fix that with coffee too since high spermidine supply alone doesn't seem to make a dent...

[joelcairo]

I don't think this is about caffeine. People with high caffeine intake who aren't getting it from coffee are probably getting it from cola and diet cola. Also tea and various energy drinks of course, but in the US the main contributor is probably cola drinks. To the extent that the telomerase data is important at all, I would think that high consumption of those drinks is a more likely source of the problem.

[Skyguy2005]

I wish I could see a study that controls for two other variables in coffee/caffeine consumption:   1)  the SNP for caffeine metabolism  and 2)  a measurement or index for how well organized the person's daily routine is.  

 

RE:  #1 - SNP

 

I wonder if people who are frequent coffee drinkers self-select because they have high enzymatic processing of caffeine.  I have a family member who literally drinks coffee all day long and even an hour before sleep.  I repeatedly pestered this person for years about their bad coffee drinking habits.  To my surprise, I found out the person is a high metabolizer of caffeine and it does not effect them like others.

 

RE:  #2 - daily routine

 

Given the recent research we are seeing on circadian rhythm, I wonder/hypothesize that high caffeine consumption may be a coincident biomarker for good circadian control and daily routine.  Perhaps people who drink low/small amounts of caffeine are marking on their NHANES survey that they drink coffee only in small amounts to help them get through the day or that they are constantly sleep deprived and use caffeine to power through the day.  Maybe their daily lives are disorganized such that caffeine is a crutch vs. part of a highly organized routine.  How does that translate to telomere length?  It would be interesting to disentangle any confounding behavior here.

 

Is telomere length asbolutely important?

 

What is effect rapamycin on telomere length? I heard it does not have any

[Kalliste]

Coffee contains hundreds of chemicals. Its the old isolation vs synergy problem that plauges modern reductionist based research.
Coffee is so much more, the senolytic quercetin, iron chelating properties, stimulation of bowel movement, zonulin protection in GI tract vs leaky gut, pro/pre biotic effects on microbes, supression of appetite leading to healthier meal choices, anti depressant mood enhancer literally cutting suicide risk proportional to nr of cups per day. And so on...

[Baten]

I don't think this is about caffeine. People with high caffeine intake who aren't getting it from coffee are probably getting it from cola and diet cola. Also tea and various energy drinks of course, but in the US the main contributor is probably cola drinks. To the extent that the telomerase data is important at all, I would think that high consumption of those drinks is a more likely source of the problem.

 

I think it's still intriguing that the people in this research who consume on average 2.8 cups of coffee or more, are the 'healthiest'. Heavy coffee drinking negatively correlates to drinking soda and other unhealthy drinks...?

[Dorian Grey]

"2.8 cups of coffee or more, are the 'healthiest"

 

Coffee has substantially more caffeine than about any other source other than energy drinks @ 100-165mg per 8 oz cup. Black tea 25-48mg, & cola drinks 24-46.  

 

http://www.mayoclini...t-20049372?pg=1

 

The Kaiser study: https://share.kaiser...-protect-liver/

which first documented the protective effect of coffee in alcohol consuming populations questioned whether caffeine was the active component, as they saw little benefit from tea/cola, though they said there was limited data from these populations.  What they did see was a linear protection profile, with those drinking more coffee getting substantially more protection, with 4 cups+/day reducing cirrhosis in alcoholics by 80%. 

 

Gressner, in the link in my initial post elucidated the mechanism most likely was in fact the caffeine.  The Kaiser study seemed to concur as tea (rich in polyphenols) showed little effect.  

 

This indicates it may take the substantial amounts of caffeine found only in coffee (or perhaps energy drinks) to see a substantial benefit.  Madame Calment apparently found a work-around with theobromine by consuming a kilo of chocolate/week.  It's the xanthines!  

 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 20 May 2017 - 08:20 AM.