42 replies to this topic

[baccheion]

Magnesium I take (once a week or so).

K has the mental blunting I mentioned. Perhaps it’s a matter of the dose and the form-looks like Thorne has just K2, would this solve the issue?
Magnesium I take (once a week or so).

K has the mental blunting I mentioned. Perhaps it’s a matter of the dose and the form-looks like Thorne has just K2, would this solve the issue?

I mentioned a route you could take to minimize any mental blunting. It is very unwise to take higher amounts of vitamin D3 without vitamin K(2 MK-4). And magnesium. Magnesium would be taken everyday.

Edited by baccheion, 28 March 2018 - 06:34 PM.

[experimenting]

Thorne research MK4 on the way. Let’s see.

[experimenting]

Vitamin D does not increase glutamate but vitamin K can. There could also be other causes, obviously.

Then why the itch when I take JUST D?

My guess would be that you developed calcium deposits in your soft tissues from the high amount of D3, try K2-MK4 to remove the calcium from the soft tissues.

I wouldn't take K2-MK7 it stays in the blood too long and accumulates because it has to be converted to MK4.


I felt very bad on the K2-MK7, could be that some people lack the ability to convert the MK7 to MK4 (defect in the gene UBIAD1?).

Nature. 2010 Nov 4;468(7320):117-21. doi: 10.1038/nature09464. Epub 2010 Oct 17.
Identification of UBIAD1 as a novel human menaquinone-4 biosynthetic enzyme.
Nakagawa K, Hirota Y, Sawada N, Yuge N, Watanabe M, Uchino Y, Okuda N, Shimomura Y, Suhara Y, Okano T.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/20953171

What did you feel?

[Keizo]

If you have lost fat and gained muscle you might need significantly more calories than what you are used to or may imagine. Low caloric intake can lead to fatigue, tiredness, especially when exercising regularly. Some people also just struggle eating enough, especially as caloric demands increase.

 

Maybe just try adding some sources of calories that are easy to eat drink. For example you might feel a lot better if you add 1000 kcal for a few days.

Edited by Keizo, 29 March 2018 - 01:48 PM.

[Caravaggio]

 

What did you feel?

 

 

Overall weakness and tight chest, probably too much blood clotting.

[experimenting]

If you have lost fat and gained muscle you might need significantly more calories than what you are used to or may imagine. Low caloric intake can lead to fatigue, tiredness, especially when exercising regularly. Some people also just struggle eating enough, especially as caloric demands increase.

Maybe just try adding some sources of calories that are easy to eat drink. For example you might feel a lot better if you add 1000 kcal for a few days.

Quite possible...BUT I just tried Thorne D/K which is MK4 ONLY in a low dose and I’m loving it.

Getting nearly all the dopamine rush of the D, minus the itch and it can’t be placebo as the skin irritation is gone (or hasn’t happened yet at least).

2 possibilities:

1) MK7 doesn’t agree with me. This is supported by an earlier post. Any ideas on how MK7 might cause trouble, not just from a clotting but from a neurotransmitter perspective?
2) Dose ratios. Thorne has a much more mild MK4 dose. It could be as simple as “the dose makes the poison.”

Going with 5000iu/day in one morning shot. If I take D past noon it can cause sleep issues. One issue I’m encountering is, 10 drops of oil is a lot-I don’t really know HOW to take this to maximize absorption. I would guess that an empty stomach isn’t the way to go so I had a small square of chocolate to get things going...any strategies welcome.

[baccheion]

If you have lost fat and gained muscle you might need significantly more calories than what you are used to or may imagine. Low caloric intake can lead to fatigue, tiredness, especially when exercising regularly. Some people also just struggle eating enough, especially as caloric demands increase.

Maybe just try adding some sources of calories that are easy to eat drink. For example you might feel a lot better if you add 1000 kcal for a few days.

Quite possible...BUT I just tried Thorne D/K which is MK4 ONLY in a low dose and I’m loving it.

Getting nearly all the dopamine rush of the D, minus the itch and it can’t be placebo as the skin irritation is gone (or hasn’t happened yet at least).

2 possibilities:

1) MK7 doesn’t agree with me. This is supported by an earlier post. Any ideas on how MK7 might cause trouble, not just from a clotting but from a neurotransmitter perspective?
2) Dose ratios. Thorne has a much more mild MK4 dose. It could be as simple as “the dose makes the poison.”

Going with 5000iu/day in one morning shot. If I take D past noon it can cause sleep issues. One issue I’m encountering is, 10 drops of oil is a lot-I don’t really know HOW to take this to maximize absorption. I would guess that an empty stomach isn’t the way to go so I had a small square of chocolate to get things going...any strategies welcome.

How much D3 and MK-4 are you now taking?

[experimenting]

If you have lost fat and gained muscle you might need significantly more calories than what you are used to or may imagine. Low caloric intake can lead to fatigue, tiredness, especially when exercising regularly. Some people also just struggle eating enough, especially as caloric demands increase.

Maybe just try adding some sources of calories that are easy to eat drink. For example you might feel a lot better if you add 1000 kcal for a few days.

Quite possible...BUT I just tried Thorne D/K which is MK4 ONLY in a low dose and I’m loving it.

Getting nearly all the dopamine rush of the D, minus the itch and it can’t be placebo as the skin irritation is gone (or hasn’t happened yet at least).

2 possibilities:

1) MK7 doesn’t agree with me. This is supported by an earlier post. Any ideas on how MK7 might cause trouble, not just from a clotting but from a neurotransmitter perspective?
2) Dose ratios. Thorne has a much more mild MK4 dose. It could be as simple as “the dose makes the poison.”

Going with 5000iu/day in one morning shot. If I take D past noon it can cause sleep issues. One issue I’m encountering is, 10 drops of oil is a lot-I don’t really know HOW to take this to maximize absorption. I would guess that an empty stomach isn’t the way to go so I had a small square of chocolate to get things going...any strategies welcome.

How much D3 and MK-4 are you now taking?

5000iu/1000mcg. This is the same MK4 dosage as found in the LEF mix, but no K1 or MK7 (100mcg in LEF).

At least after two days it seems to be a difference-maker. No itch/skin dryness. Still have the D “spunk”. I really think it was the K2 but I’d like to know more of the science before settling on that (or even the K1).

[DeepBlue]

My understanding is that Vitamin D competes with Vitamin A.  Dry skin and sleep issues may be as a result of Vitamin A deficiencies. Google Vitamin A deficiency symptoms to see if you have them.

 

Most literature lists plants as food sources due to high carotene content.  However, around 40% of people are poor converters. I would go for preformed Vitamin A retinol to address possible deficiencies.

 

I would probably try the following for a few weeks to see if those issues are resolved:

 

1- Take  weekly dosage of Vitamin D3 and K2 in a single day or two days in a week, for example 20,000 IU Vit D3 and 200Mcg Vit K2 MK7 on Mondays and Thursdays

 

2- On other days take Vit A aiming for 2,500 mcg a day. Either consume Vitamin A containing cod liver oil or consume lamb or beef liver which is rich in Vit A and other nutrients. 150 to 200  gram liver per week should provide enough Vid A.  

 

Cod liver oil has Vitamin A naturally. However, I would look for a brand that explicitly list Vitamin A content to make sure.

 

Excess Vitamin A can cause health issues.  However, 2.500 mcg per day is within tolerable upper limit and high enough to address deficiency in a few weeks.

[kurdishfella]

does anyone have any anecdotes on how long it takes to replenish severe vitamin d deficiency with 10000-20000 IU/daily?

[Nate-2004]

Not long at all. Hours perhaps. Such an amount though is really excessive. 8k IU is as high as most will recommend going and anymore ends up with calcium issues and other toxicity problems. If 8k doesn't get you above 20ng that's awful.

 

Have you seen a doctor about this? What do they say?

[Groundhog Day]

does anyone have any anecdotes on how long it takes to replenish severe vitamin d deficiency with 10000-20000 IU/daily?

 

 

my endocrinologist put me on a combo of d2/d3 years ago to correct a major deficiency. I want to say it was 50k units per week for a month and then 5k d3 each day for another month. But I am not positive. 

[protoject]

Honestly I have the same issue as you. It's like the vitamin d is doing its job but also making me go insomniac and then I get manic and do crazy things. Anyway. I think one day i went frantic and tossed my retinol into the garbage. Bad move. But at the same time the retinol doses are way too high. Need something a lot lower. I think it'd be a good balancer here and there. I took 500 magnesium religiously, i was able to do 10 000 ui for maybe a week or more and I think my blood levels got topped up or something, i felt good from it but then my sleep went unstable - which I expected though I expected it sooner on (as this happens all year, go on it, go off it because of insomnia things). Best suggestion would be just take it less often. I think my recommendation is I'm supposed to be getting 50 000 iu per week. I pushed it to a little bit more because I was tolerating it well at first. Always eat it with a big meal. You'll probably absorb it anyway but I feel it way more with a meal since it's fat soluble. And yes I do take K2 with it, I think overall that does help, for say, my bones and stuff but not so sure it stops that overstimulation from the vitamin d. Right now I'm only on 800-1000 mg k mk7 because that's what the store had. Used to take a mix of k mk4 and k mk7.   Anyway best suggestion is just knock down the dose to the basic dosage for now and see if all those high doses level out over the coming weeks. Eat it with food. Or maybe just take a break and get back on the wagon after a week of good sleep. Vitamin D is strange I swear it was making me sleep better for a while then boom can't sleep. But maybe my vit d levels just weren't high enough.

edit: and I take the VitD as early as humanly possible
I dislike melatonin for many reasons but it did appear helpful on days where i tried to offset the vit D insomnia problems. Of course then the melatonin made my depression worse. 

 

edit2: I haven't been on the pure MK7 for long but it does seem more prone to side effects, can't be sure, like this morning I had a headache and I didn't know why, I don't really get headaches. Don't remember that happening with the other supplements. I seem fine right now. 

Edited by protoject, 29 December 2019 - 05:57 PM.