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Tackling ADHD induced(?) lack of motivation

adhd methylphenidate

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#61 cat-nips

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Posted 04 November 2018 - 03:47 PM

Not directly relevant to this thread but also remember reading somewhere that Tia could be effective treatment of IBS which is linked to depression. If this is true it could be a valuable alternative treatment to SSRI or other standard treatments for that.

Edited by cat-nips, 04 November 2018 - 03:48 PM.


#62 CWF1986

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 02:15 AM

I've tried DLPA with the seleg. and was very disappointed.  It didn't do anything adhd.  It did ease anxiety.  It was most like taking a weak low dose opioid like darvocets than anything else I can compare to and I can see myself using this stuff for the discomfort of excessive DOMS or minor strains.  

 

I think I'll give tyrosine a go.  



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#63 cat-nips

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 04:12 AM

I've tried DLPA with the seleg. and was very disappointed.  It didn't do anything adhd.  It did ease anxiety.  It was most like taking a weak low dose opioid like darvocets than anything else I can compare to and I can see myself using this stuff for the discomfort of excessive DOMS or minor strains.  

 

I think I'll give tyrosine a go.  

 

DLPA on it's own did nothing for me as well, except give some pins and needles in my feet after higher dosages.  I attribute that to the nerve damage side effect you sometimes hear associated with higher dosage DLPA treatment.  Pretty disappointing because I read a trial where it had shown some efficacy combined with Selegiline.  I don't think it will work in my case either, being that I derive no benefit from it alone.  Still waiting on it to arrive and I used the same vendor.  

 

Tyrosine is ok on it's own, but for me, the dosages needed to maintain it as consistent ADHD treatment are too high to be comfortable, and seemingly raises my blood pressure beyond safe ranges.  However maybe in lower dosages, as an adjunct it might be alright.    

 

Personally, I find consistent steady state, HIIT or a combined resistance and HIIT workout, to be fabulous for symptom control, but need the initial motivation to start, the focus/concentration to get through it and recover, and the stamina to continue doing this mostly every day before reaping the continued benefits and aftereffects.  Unfortunately, that's something that doesn't come so easily for me while unmedicated, even though I "love" exercise.  Exercise ADD is common for me, where I start 10 min of one workout before deciding I want to do another one, and then start the other one 10 min, before I get bored and want another type, ad infinitum nauseam, and this isn't on purpose.  After I do this a few times, I get frustrated and decide that I haven't been productive and end it.  This has often been enough to ruin my day during the times where I would try to get a workout in right after AM coffee, and scheduling in 60-90 min of exercise time often led to nothing.    



#64 CWF1986

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:25 PM

I'm ordering more selegiline and I'll have it a couple or so more weeks.  I'll give 10mg a day a go.  I know I'll be flirting with MAO-A inhibition but I'll take proper precautions.  Also, I take a med potent and selective for NRI which will reduce to eliminate the pressor response to tyramine.  



#65 gamesguru

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 10:29 PM

Also, I take a med potent and selective for NRI which will reduce to eliminate the pressor response to tyramine.  

 

Did you double, triple check that? 10mg is not a "large" selegiline dose, buuuuutttt



#66 cat-nips

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 12:25 AM

Thought Nori would increase blood pressure and taking with Selgin would result in additive effects?

#67 floweryriddle

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 04:55 AM

This weekend I had enough motivation to do one of the things that had the "ADHD wall" for me. That was something I wanted to do for a very long time, and a big reason why I started this thread. The mental block was still there but a lot easier to power through, as in, there was less internal resistance to fight with. Usually I would be stuck in the planning phase indefinitely, but never get to the doing part. I could think about doing it, but not actually start doing it - it's really difficult to explain. 

 

Well and then, in all the good vibes my ADHD brain forgot to check how much Tianeptine I had left and I'm out. So this will be an interesting forced test to see how things change when taking out Tianeptine. The next order (a few grams of powder) could take a good 3 weeks to arrive, assuming it even makes it through (Piracetam I ordered in the past multiple times never made it.) I have a little bit of Sulphate at home but in previous tests it never really did anything for me. 

 

Selegiline+MPH+Atomoxetine stays. Maybe also good point to evaluate if Tianeptine is even sustainable for my current situation.

I'm open to give other things a try in place of TIA


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#68 cat-nips

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Posted 06 November 2018 - 06:26 AM

This weekend I had enough motivation to do one of the things that had the "ADHD wall" for me. That was something I wanted to do for a very long time, and a big reason why I started this thread. The mental block was still there but a lot easier to power through, as in, there was less internal resistance to fight with. Usually I would be stuck in the planning phase indefinitely, but never get to the doing part. I could think about doing it, but not actually start doing it - it's really difficult to explain.

Well and then, in all the good vibes my ADHD brain forgot to check how much Tianeptine I had left and I'm out. So this will be an interesting forced test to see how things change when taking out Tianeptine. The next order (a few grams of powder) could take a good 3 weeks to arrive, assuming it even makes it through (Piracetam I ordered in the past multiple times never made it.) I have a little bit of Sulphate at home but in previous tests it never really did anything for me.

Selegiline+MPH+Atomoxetine stays. Maybe also good point to evaluate if Tianeptine is even sustainable for my current situation.
I'm open to give other things a try in place of TIA

I know the feeling of endless planning and organization with no content or action, and I’ve always attributed it to an improper balance of too high NA to DA levels. But that’s a purely speculative and subjectively based opinion.

Hope it works out. Best!

Edited by cat-nips, 06 November 2018 - 06:31 AM.

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#69 floweryriddle

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 03:06 AM

I’m a lot more sad and gloomy these days. Because of this I feel less energized and motivated and am back at having a hard time with things. Compared to baseline before this experiment, it’s still better But more down and sad. I’m also a lot more agitated and physically feeling stressed.

I am wondering if it’s depressive symptoms coming back that TIA effectively got rid of, but am also suspecting some sort of rebound from longer TIA usage. I had a similar down when I forgot dosages.

With this I’m definitely wondering if TIA is even sustainable and looking for other things to potentially replace it with. A isolated MAOI testrun with either higher dosages or Selegiline or a reversible MAO like moclobemide sounds more and more tempting after the success with TIA. So do other antidepressants.

Edited by floweryriddle, 09 November 2018 - 03:07 AM.


#70 cat-nips

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 04:07 AM

I've trialed Selegiline 5-15mg for the past 3 days and it feels about 5% similar to the effect of Dexedrine/Adderall.  15mg on it's own really didn't do much by itself and maybe even caused some afternoon fatigue.  However, 5mg stacked with 1/4 of an Armodafinil tab and it was almost too hyper and possibly bordering hypertensive, but the happy clarity was present for a few hours.  Too scared to go higher.

 

I'm also wondering about higher doses of Selegiline for ADHD treatment both singularly and adjunctively, so I hope that those with experience with doses over 10mg will provide their insights.  For now, I think I'll stick to 5mg BID with a small amount of Armodafinil.  

 

Standard Antidepressants (SSRIs) have always worsened ADHD for me even in combo with stimulant treatment.  Some may find a happy medium with this and docs like to prescribe this combo, but personally, I found more of a cancelling of effects rather than synergy, but that's in combination with amp products.  It could be different with MPH.  

 

With Tia's high efficacy rates for depression, it would make sense that upon cessation, you would have rebound of symptoms.  From my understanding, addiction and toxicity could become an issue when increasing dosages beyond the standard 12.5mg, 3x per day for the Sodium form.  However, I think the Sulphate form is supposed to be a smoother and longer lasting effect with fewer doses required, so perhaps thats an option. Does your doctor have any suggestions?  

  

For more standard treatments, I've heard that Lamictal can work well in some as an adjunctive antidepressant treatment, but there is an adjustment period you have to go through.  When I tried the Lamictal/Dexedrine combo, I couldn't tolerate it due to anxiety and other side effects, but I've heard a few people speak favorably of it.  I've also heard that Abilify can work synergistically, but it's not something that I've personally tried.  

 

 

 


Edited by cat-nips, 09 November 2018 - 04:09 AM.


#71 Finn

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 05:53 AM

With this I’m definitely wondering if TIA is even sustainable and looking for other things to potentially replace it with.

 

Legal sustainability is also in question.

 

Ordering modafinil can have unpleasant consequences in Japan and tianeptine has much "better" abuse potential than modafinil 

 

https://web.archive....nil_into_japan/

 

Though Japanese law might not reflect this at the moment, it probably will be updated at some point in future.

 

France is the home country of both tianeptine and modafinil, tianeptine is narcotics there and modafinil is just prescription drug with instructions to prescribe narcolepsy only, no scheduling.

 

In France tianeptine is narcotics, "Duration of prescription restricted to 28 days", so you get prescription for it for maximum 28 days, then you have to go to doctor again for doctor to estimate whether you are abusing the substance and whether you still have need for another max 28 day prescription.

 

http://www.has-sante...10411_12029.pdf

 

Substances like morphine and oxycodone fall under same "prescription limited to 28 days" rule, so it wouldn't be surprising if Japan started to treat tianeptine like other opiates in the future.

 

 

 


Edited by Finn, 09 November 2018 - 06:12 AM.


#72 floweryriddle

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 10:49 AM

I've trialed Selegiline 5-15mg for the past 3 days and it feels about 5% similar to the effect of Dexedrine/Adderall.  15mg on it's own really didn't do much by itself and maybe even caused some afternoon fatigue.  However, 5mg stacked with 1/4 of an Armodafinil tab and it was almost too hyper and possibly bordering hypertensive, but the happy clarity was present for a few hours.  Too scared to go higher.

 

I'm also wondering about higher doses of Selegiline for ADHD treatment both singularly and adjunctively, so I hope that those with experience with doses over 10mg will provide their insights.  For now, I think I'll stick to 5mg BID with a small amount of Armodafinil.  

 

Standard Antidepressants (SSRIs) have always worsened ADHD for me even in combo with stimulant treatment.  Some may find a happy medium with this and docs like to prescribe this combo, but personally, I found more of a cancelling of effects rather than synergy, but that's in combination with amp products.  It could be different with MPH.  

 

With Tia's high efficacy rates for depression, it would make sense that upon cessation, you would have rebound of symptoms.  From my understanding, addiction and toxicity could become an issue when increasing dosages beyond the standard 12.5mg, 3x per day for the Sodium form.  However, I think the Sulphate form is supposed to be a smoother and longer lasting effect with fewer doses required, so perhaps thats an option. Does your doctor have any suggestions?  

  

For more standard treatments, I've heard that Lamictal can work well in some as an adjunctive antidepressant treatment, but there is an adjustment period you have to go through.  When I tried the Lamictal/Dexedrine combo, I couldn't tolerate it due to anxiety and other side effects, but I've heard a few people speak favorably of it.  I've also heard that Abilify can work synergistically, but it's not something that I've personally tried.  

 

Give it some time. Takes a while until enough MAO in your body is inhibited. From my experience it'll feel a good amount different on day 1 and day 20. Although if you don't want MAO-A inhibition, better keep the dosages lower if you want to take it daily. 

 

SSRIs are the category of medication that I am currently not willing to try as long as I have other options. They scare me a good amount. 

 

I tried Tianeptine sulphate sulphate a few times (20mg - 30mg dosages) and didn't notice much from it. Just when it wore off, in the evening, it didn't feel so nice. I much prefer the Sodium variant, despite having to redose it a couple of times. 

 

 

Legal sustainability is also in question.

 

Ordering modafinil can have unpleasant consequences in Japan and tianeptine has much "better" abuse potential than modafinil 

 

https://web.archive....nil_into_japan/

 

Though Japanese law might not reflect this at the moment, it probably will be updated at some point in future.

 

France is the home country of both tianeptine and modafinil, tianeptine is narcotics there and modafinil is just prescription drug with instructions to prescribe narcolepsy only, no scheduling.

 

In France tianeptine is narcotics, "Duration of prescription restricted to 28 days", so you get prescription for it for maximum 28 days, then you have to go to doctor again for doctor to estimate whether you are abusing the substance and whether you still have need for another max 28 day prescription.

 

http://www.has-sante...10411_12029.pdf

 

Substances like morphine and oxycodone fall under same "prescription limited to 28 days" rule, so it wouldn't be surprising if Japan started to treat tianeptine like other opiates in the future.

 

Yeah good point. Currently online pharmacies in Japan still sell it, and Selegiline is categorized as containing stimulant material (don't really know how to translate 覚せい剤原料). Tianeptine doesn't seem to have this classification yet, but Modafinil on the other hand is a full blown psychostimulant and a lot more serious. 

 

I think it'll happen eventually, but might still take some time since the substance is very rare and unknown here still. Here's to hope that once it becomes more known, it'll actually become possible to get a prescription for it. 



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#73 CWF1986

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 02:12 AM

I've trialed Selegiline 5-15mg for the past 3 days and it feels about 5% similar to the effect of Dexedrine/Adderall.  15mg on it's own really didn't do much by itself and maybe even caused some afternoon fatigue.  However, 5mg stacked with 1/4 of an Armodafinil tab and it was almost too hyper and possibly bordering hypertensive, but the happy clarity was present for a few hours.  Too scared to go higher.

 

I'm also wondering about higher doses of Selegiline for ADHD treatment both singularly and adjunctively, so I hope that those with experience with doses over 10mg will provide their insights.  For now, I think I'll stick to 5mg BID with a small amount of Armodafinil.  

 

Standard Antidepressants (SSRIs) have always worsened ADHD for me even in combo with stimulant treatment.  Some may find a happy medium with this and docs like to prescribe this combo, but personally, I found more of a cancelling of effects rather than synergy, but that's in combination with amp products.  It could be different with MPH.  

 

With Tia's high efficacy rates for depression, it would make sense that upon cessation, you would have rebound of symptoms.  From my understanding, addiction and toxicity could become an issue when increasing dosages beyond the standard 12.5mg, 3x per day for the Sodium form.  However, I think the Sulphate form is supposed to be a smoother and longer lasting effect with fewer doses required, so perhaps thats an option. Does your doctor have any suggestions?  

  

For more standard treatments, I've heard that Lamictal can work well in some as an adjunctive antidepressant treatment, but there is an adjustment period you have to go through.  When I tried the Lamictal/Dexedrine combo, I couldn't tolerate it due to anxiety and other side effects, but I've heard a few people speak favorably of it.  I've also heard that Abilify can work synergistically, but it's not something that I've personally tried.  

 

I'm not a fan of SSRIs myself.  But there are other classes of antidepressants that can help ease anxious depression.  Like the tetracyclics such as Rameron.  There's also the tricyclics selective for NRI.  Just be sure you get an ekg after blood levels of the med have had a chance to stabilize since the MachR can in rare instances mess up with your heart rythm.  

 

Just mentioning these in case tianeptine doesn't work out.







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