160 replies to this topic

[zoolander]

In walks the devils advocate.......

Yeah, but you're what we call "man pretty".

I will take that as a compliment.

That's an actual pick-up artist technique, its called peacocking. You wear something outrageous that draws attention to yourself and gives you a conversation starter.

Funk, I've never heard of peacocking and drawing attention to myself wasn't and generally isn't my intention.



Man this post and alot of the replies absolutely reak of objectifacation. Its not subtle either. It is blatant objectifacation of another to satisfy some sort of personal journey.

Some girls can be "converted" to adopt big picture thinking and long-range goals.

I know that you put the inverted commas around "converted" because persuaded or convinced perhaps is too stronger word to use but I don't think you can say any. What do you mean when you say "convert to adopt big picture thinking and long-range goals"?

What is big picture thinking? Who's big picture? Are you referring to a belief system? Is the 'big picture" a belief system? Your belief system? Your belief system?

I know I am being picky here with semantics but I belive I have a point. Agree, disagree or agree to disagree (I hate agree to disagree) but who is this all about?

You still have to be selective of course, to find girls receptive to this stuff, but you don't need them to be on the same page right off the bat.

Receptive? On the same page right off the bat? IMO, we just need to be understanding of anothers individuals views and their right to have views. They don't need to be receptive and come around do they?

P.S How ironic is it that I am arguing a point about understanding the importance of allowing another person to have their own beliefs by pushing my own beliefs [lol] [lol]

P.S.S please don't get my approach confused with an attack on what someone has said. I am just argueing/debating some points. I feel bad though because most of the points I argued are from you Funk. No offence matey [tung].

Of course I am far from perfect and have and will continue to over push my opinion. I try my best not to though

[DJS]

What is big picture thinking? Who's big picture? Are you referring to a belief system? Is the 'big picture" a belief system? Your belief system? Your belief system?

Don on day 5 of dating a born again: I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! (Zoolander quote)

I'd say that her belief system doesn't have to be exactly your belief system, but they should be close. Beliefs and "bigger picture" ideals are a significant factor in long term compatibility.

[DJS]

BTW, I have a feeling this thread is going to be a real winner.

At the end of the day we are all Dr. Phils. [sfty]

[Infernity]

that is only because I look better in a dress than them.

[lol]

Be yourself.

Sometimes it is not easy for a male to remain cool and act as he would otherwise when it comes to the lass he wants to conquer.

-Infernity

[brizzadizza]

I know that you put the inverted commas around "converted" because persuaded or convinced perhaps is too stronger word to use but I don't think you can say any. What do you mean when you say "convert to adopt big picture thinking and long-range goals"?

What is big picture thinking? Who's big picture? Are you referring to a belief system? Is the 'big picture" a belief system? Your belief system? Your belief system?

I know I am being picky here with semantics but I belive I have a point. Agree, disagree or agree to disagree (I hate agree to disagree) but who is this all about?

I freakin love you Zoolander. If you can't say it better you may as well quote it. There seems to be a trend amongst the males participating in this thread that they want smart women that share their views. There is a general contempt for lesser women who just aren't mental enough to appreciate the grand vision that you've managed. The sentiment can be summed up best I believe by saying "If she isn't on my level then I don't want to even talk to her." Well I say get off your high horse guys. There is no hard sell with women. If you think there is you're making it too hard.


Hank, I absolutely and completely disagree with you right here. Starting at the top:

It's kind of rare to find a female that can actually hold a comparable level of respect/duty (also logic/reality) for "big picture" ideas.

As Zoolander already pointed out, what's a big picture idea? If you take a good look at that statement I'm betting you'll find it can apply to men as quickly as women. I think your big problem here is you want to talk about what you want to talk about. Sometimes thats absolutely ok, but you know what, maybe .0001% of any population is prepared to discuss with you on that level. Male, female, shemale or hermaphrodite I don't care what population you're sampling (barring certain computer science professionals and students) but generally people aren't prepared to have any kind of an intelligent conversation about friendly A.I. and few people are willing to discuss their belief or non-belief in the existence of god. Consider peoples reactions to Jehovah's Witnesses. I've found the witnesses to be generally nice people, but the only view they're getting of my spiritual beliefs is whatever I throw out there to screw with them. And I'm nice to missionaries. I'm betting 9 out of 10 times they get the door slammed in their face (maybe not slammed, but certainly rebuked.) Why would you think a stranger is willing to talk about the "big picture" with you? I implore you to try this, ask what interests them, at first you'll get a lame response undoubtedly at best something like "Oh I really like music." But that is your chance to truly get to know an individual, thats the portal, the first defense. Expand on that roll with the punches and be the adaptive partner in the conversation.

Personally, those are the kind of females I'm looking for, now.

Honestly Hank I think you're selling all women short with this. I had a friend once who proclaimed very loudly that he was shallow. He dated every type of woman, fat skinny tall short all races all combinations. I asked him why he said he's shallow and he told me he only dates women that are physically attractive. I commented that he dates all kind of women and he said "My pond may be shallow, but its wide!" I just thought that was a funny story. Further down I'll go into why I think this is not a good belief to have.

If I have to sway a woman with petty social gestures and integrate into my belief system superficial, short-sighted, goals, then I'm not wasting any more of my time on them.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Its as shallow and short-sighted as you let it be. I like CRPG's alot. If I started playing one that said "press the spacebar to continue" and I pressed enter 100 times and continuing didn't happen, do I have any right at all to be upset or surprised? Now what if my friend pressed spacebar and said this game is awesome! Do I really have the experience with the game to say "Man nuts to that game, it sucked, any game where I have to press spacebar is just wrong for me." I'd say no (this point is most certainly debatable.) I know that you recognize that you'll be single if you refuse to follow the social code (which isn't set in stone) but I think you don't realize the caliber of person you're turning away with that sentiment. Even if you don't find that amazing spectacular connection and love that you want, you will find a slew of absolutely interesting people. Play the game a little, its so cool when you just press space bar I promise you. Everyone I've met up to this point had some quality that I find I can respect. Stupid people, smart people, young people and on and on. The trick is finding that quality and expanding it. If you get close enough to anyone you'll find you love them. Hell, my brother is the biggest twit I know but I can't not love him, I know him to well. This is my refutation of your last statement. And the best most sure fire way to get to know the largest segment of the population is to suck it up, get off your horse and talk about what they want to talk about. Be interested and in only a short while they'll want to know what makes you tick. Thats when you can introduce your ideas, thats a perfect place for Hank to say what Hank wants to say.

In light of this recent decision on my part, I might be looking for quite some time (and probably have better luck in a library than a bar) ... but you never know.

Once again I think people are greatly undervaluing the type of people who go to bars. Haven't any of you been to bars? Aren't you generally smart and interesting people with tons of great qualities? But I will say that anyplace is a good place to meet someone, just some are alot harder to do it at than others. A library in my opinion is a difficult place to start any kind of romance. People just aren't social in a quiet studious atmosphere. Its difficult to speak openly when you're afraid someone might be listening and its just as difficult for your partner to respond or question. Its definitely possible to meet someone at a library or coffee shop or what have you, I just don't think it's one of the best places to meet someone.

I'd also like to address the internet dating. The internet is cool, I love it, I like myspace as I've met some really cool girls. But I know I use it as a crutch when I'm not feeling social and you should definitely keep that in mind. THe type of intimacy that internet dating allows for is artificial in the sense that it comes on way to quick, I've never been able to really know someone by their page and while it may prevent the "hard sell" by way of listing topics they want to talk about and letting you match their interests to yours, it doesn't teach you how to really interact even when you do meet them. I say face to face is the way to go. This is a skill and like any skill it can be learned.

Finally for this essay I'd like to ask what the women reading this thread are thinking? Lemme know. As a doorman I get to hear both sides of the fence on this one and I have to say, it is my experience that neither gender has even a clue as to what the other gender is thinking or why they act like they do. Not counting myself of course ((blows on fingernails and polishes them on his spectacularly clean shirt)) BUt I am really interested to know what the women here think.

So thats my first little essay here. Tear it up my friends. If you disagree don't be afraid to tell me, don't put IMHO or anything just lambaste me! Hank and Guyledouche, I think you both have troubles relating to people not because you're too smart, but because you don't make the actual effort. Which isn't to say you don't make an effort, just you're trying to force the game to work how you want it to and getting mad when it doesn't.

His greatness
Brandon

P.S. I'm going to leave my identity thoughts until later. I'm a little tuckered out from this post. But I have some thoughts that I really think can open up some great dialogue.

[FunkOdyssey]

I know that you put the inverted commas around "converted" because persuaded or convinced perhaps is too stronger word to use but I don't think you can say any. What do you mean when you say "convert to adopt big picture thinking and long-range goals"?

What is big picture thinking? Who's big picture? Are you referring to a belief system? Is the 'big picture" a belief system? Your belief system? Your belief system?

I know I am being picky here with semantics but I belive I have a point. Agree, disagree or agree to disagree (I hate agree to disagree) but who is this all about?

I'll have to agree to disagree with you, because I see no problem with persuading someone to adopt my belief system, and yes I think mine is superior to whatever they showed up with.

Aren't we all trying to convince people that life extension is important and of the highest priority? Pushing your belief system on other people is a central, celebrated theme of this site. You're probably in the wrong place if you want to criticize the practice. [tung]

[RighteousReason]

As Zoolander already pointed out, what's a big picture idea?

The desire to grow, learn, create, explore, discover, understand- indefinitely. The fact that death is the enemy, above all else- for now. The fact that AI is going to play a huge part in the future of humanity, and probably sooner rather than later. General desire to know and understand reality, science, everything.

If you take a good look at that statement I'm betting you'll find it can apply to men as quickly as women.

No, you are definitely right.

I think your big problem here is you want to talk about what you want to talk about

That's kind of a misrepresentation. The big problem is that I want to meet people like me- it's not their particularly beliefs or interests that are of concern to me exactly, but rather the method by which they determine their interests and beliefs. This is kind of subtle, sorry if I don't explain it well.

Sometimes thats absolutely ok, but you know what, maybe .0001% of any population is prepared to discuss with you on that level

That's a problem, but what can you do? 99.9999% of people are stupid. Any person that is in the 99.9999% of smartness knows that

Why would you think a stranger is willing to talk about the "big picture" with you?

I certainly hold no such illusions.

I know that you recognize that you'll be single if you refuse to follow the social code

Not really. A lot of people recognize the rediculousness of society, religion, etc. Especially when I explain it to them

Everyone I've met up to this point had some quality that I find I can respect.

Likewise. That's not the point though.

If you get close enough to anyone you'll find you love them.

Agreed. Love them enough to save their lives, even.

[RighteousReason]

I think you both have troubles relating to people

Hehe. I don't have trouble relating to people! I'm not nearly as crazy in person as I may seem to come accross over the internet .

Haven't any of you been to bars?

Believe me, I know as much or more about that culture then you do. For one, I lived that culture for years. For two, I live in Athens, Georgia.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you, because I see no problem with persuading someone to adopt my belief system, and yes I think mine is superior to whatever they showed up with.

For me, it's not a matter of persuading someone to adopt my belief system. I'm looking for someone that can re-create my belief system themselves. Of course, I'd like to help as much as possible

Any person that is in the 99.9999% of smartness knows that

(No, I don't have a crazy-huge ego. I hope you can appreciate the subtle humor there.)

[brizzadizza]

Hank, I'm coming at you both guns blazing and the reason is I relate to you.

Believe me, I know as much or more about that culture then you do. For one, I lived that culture for years. For two, I live in Athens, Georgia.

I like that you said this and I'll tell you why. You didn't qualify it. It's just right there, I know as much or more than you about bars. That may be Hank, but I know as much or more than you do about being the lone tortured intellectual in a land of filthy mud flinging primates. That was my outlook for years bud. No one was good enough for me and I constantly lamented that people couldn't speak to me at my level. Sure I was social enough, I was considered nice and a generally cool guy, but I was disconnected. Whats more is I made the same mistake as you and tried to seek out other lone tortured intellectuals in a land of mud flinging primates (LTIiaLMFP for short.) If you look for people that share your beliefs and thought processes and have contempt for people who "lack the capacity" you'll never challenge your beliefs, and you simply won't grow as you would if you sought out people with differing views. You don't need people who think the same way, you need an open mind that lets you see that even your way of thinking may not be the only correct way. You made the concession that they don't have to share your beliefs just the way in which you think and I'd say thats exactly the wrong type of person to seek out. To truly test your ideas speak with the unreasonable and the unclever. What is it about what you say to them that doesn't get through? Why are they unreasonable? You speak glibly about being of a scientific mindset but here you have an actual useful experiment that you can perform that doesn't require anything beyond using your listening skills and interpreting that data in light of your scientific framework. You have the chance to figure out what force moves people and with greater knowledge of those forces such as they may be a greater ability to apply them and yield the response you want.

I'll let everyone reading this know what changed me. My co-worker Mike said to me off-handedly "The burden of communication is on the sender." This was when I was working pizza delivery. He was a young guy about 19 years old and he'd come to understand that. Bham, my shell of heady intellectualism was gone in an instant. "Yea I'm a smart guy," I thought "if I can't relate to people and I can't understand them, what is it all for?" It was pretty much right then I decided I'd try to get in their heads instead of lamenting the fact they couldn't get into mine.

Agreed. Love them enough to save their lives, even.

You misunderstand love. Doctors save lives everyday and its not out of love. Its out of duty. They don't need to have an inkling of what led up to the guy they're working on getting shot, but they fix the wound save the life and send him on his way. You may "love" them enough to save their lives, but you don't love them enough to accept their faults and try to see the world through their eyes. That's your failing, you don't see the bigger picture of love for the smaller picture of duty to fellow. Where does that duty come from? Does it exist completely in void? I say no, it exists because it was recognized that we should preserve eachother because of that realization that behind the eyes I percieve as dull and stupid or the thoughts I percieve as lacking depth there is a personality that has had its trials that has come to this point and there is a story in that journey that is meaningful. Right there do you see? CAn you tell me why I percieve the big picture is cultivating that understanding of people and you feel the big picture is amongst other things:

The fact that AI is going to play a huge part in the future of humanity, and probably sooner rather than later.

Who's right? Why is that a big picture issue? It may change the environment that I'm in but will it change the human element I have to deal with drastically? Motivational speakers and seminars have been around for a very long time now. We've advanced our technology to a very high degree, drastically changed our daily routines and still people flock to these seminars because they need to operate in that human environment still. I love technology, applied science, theory the whole spiel but I won't for a second forget that as much as I think its the greatest thing ever it won't change the way the vast majority of people operate. It will change relatively superficial parts of their life but those deeper structures are still there and still a very large part of anyone's life. I say that's the big picture. And I say that's an issue that almost the entire human race is willing to speak about at some level. So these women who you don't think give any thought to the big picture issues just aren't giving the same value to those issues that you have. Thats not the same thing at all. Get into their heads, try to see the world how they see it for just an instance and you will see that the game doesn't have to be some shallow attempt at being a pimpmaster, its the pageantry required to get that close to someone. Its your hero's journey and your reconnection with the world.

Hank I want you to know I'm not picking on you. I honestly feel we are very similar individuals. I read some of your blog and frankly I agree with most everything you write. But whats more is I think you are somewhere I was and I want to tell you how I got to be where I am. Good reads all I really look forward to this conversation continuing. I hope Guyledouche comes back and lets us know what he thinks of his thread. I hope some of the advice presented so far works for him and dammit I hope he gets laid.

Stepping off his monumentally tall soapbox while taking off his Pope robes and well travelled boots that have seen more walking than any of you are likely ever going to just because he's that way,
Brandon

[Kalepha]

Brandon, that's nice poetry and all, but it's possible to find someone matching Hank's standards. This is a matter of finding an optimal companion, not one of optimally interacting with society. Finding an optimal companion may be improbable, but not modifying standards for a prospective companion is completely independent of fluidly and productively interacting with society, or with nature as a whole. If optimal companion isn't found until Singularized optimality, so what?

I hope Guyledouche comes back and lets us know what he thinks of his thread. I hope some of the advice presented so far works for him and dammit I hope he gets laid.

I hope the advice so far presented to Guyledouche shows him that getting a girlfriend is the wrong problem.

[zoolander]

I hope the advice so far presented to Guyledouche shows him that getting a girlfriend is the wrong problem.

Nate, well said!

Hehe. I don't have trouble relating to people! I'm not nearly as crazy in person as I may seem to come accross over the internet

This is common. Unfortunately if someone thinks this of me and then they meet me in the real world they find that I am nuttier than I am on the net

Funk said:

I'll have to agree to disagree with you, because I see no problem with persuading someone to adopt my belief system

. I totally agree. However, how actively do you persuade them. Do you seek to persuade them or do you persuade/discuss your belief system when they show interest in it? Talking about persuation in the context of this topic ("How do I get a girlfriend") is a different thing.

Funk said:

Aren't we all trying to convince people that life extension is important and of the highest priority? Pushing your belief system on other people is a central, celebrated theme of this site.

Once again, I agree, however people come here by choice and do not require persuation to take something on. I come here often but there are some posts that I am simply not interested in and will not read them.

http://www.themodernmansite.com/

Hey prometheus, we should check this guy out. He could use our services. [tung]

I said:

What's the big picture?

and hankconn replied:

The desire to grow, learn, create, explore, discover, understand- indefinitely. The fact that death is the enemy, above all else- for now. The fact that AI is going to play a huge part in the future of humanity, and probably sooner rather than later. General desire to know and understand reality, science, everything.

This is your big picture. It may be other peoples big picture also but for now, it is yours. The views that you have, YOURS. The desires that you have, YOURS. Morals and ethics, YOURS. Many people will share these views, desires, morals and ethics but persuading, convincing or converting someone to see YOUR big picture is not sharing. Its pushing isn't it?

Brizza to hankconn:

Brizza: Sometimes thats absolutely ok, but you know what, maybe .0001% of any population is prepared to discuss with you on that level.
Hankconn repliedThat's a problem, but what can you do? 99.9999% of people are stupid. Any person that is in the 99.9999% of smartness knows that

That's a joke right? Sarcasm is hard to pick up online. If it's not a joke then hankconn, are you the 0.0001% that isn't stupid? Paradoxically, thinking you are the only "not stupid" person in 10,000 people is naive and stupid.

Define stupid. Define smart.

Hankconn, you have made a few statements about "knowing" about situations. For example, regarding the bar scene

Believe me, I know as much or more about that culture then you do. For one, I lived that culture for years. For two, I live in Athens, Georgia.

Sounds as though "knowing" to you is a tool you use to compete. You said "I know as much or more about that culture than you do". And? Why the need to know more. Why the need to compete?

For me, it's not a matter of persuading someone to adopt my belief system. I'm looking for someone that can re-create my belief system themselves. Of course, I'd like to help as much as possible

Well if they re-create your belief system then it wouldn't be yours. It would be their own belief system. So would it be fair to say that they would be influenced by your beliefs instead of saying adopt your beliefs? I know its semantical but often the way someone phrases something gives you an idea of where they are coming from. For example, "Someone to adopt my belief system" compared with "influenced by my belief system".

Hey guyledouche! How is it all going? I guess you didn't get a quick fix answer. Instead you get semantic and philosophical debate.

Anyhow......I have an after party to go to

[RighteousReason]

Wow so much a reponse. I feel kind of guilty for this thread and the others I tend to... add insanity into.

That may be Hank, but I know as much or more than you do about being the lone tortured intellectual in a land of filthy mud flinging primates.

Hehehe. touche

you'll never challenge your beliefs

You don't have to explicate your beliefs that are of a technical calibre rediculously beyond the depth or desire of the common person to such people in order to challenge your belief. Either way, wasting time with the mud-flinging primates isn't really my on my to-do list these days.

You don't need people who think the same way, you need an open mind that lets you see that even your way of thinking may not be the only correct way.

An open mind has diminishing returns under exceptional conditions (i.e. correctness). But otherwise this is generally a useful heuristic.

To truly test your ideas speak with the unreasonable and the unclever. What is it about what you say to them that doesn't get through? Why are they unreasonable?

I mean does a particle physicist ask a hobo for help on his ideas? The hobo might say something entirely random that inspires some great meaning in the physicist, but the hobo has no clue what's going on, and doesn't really care to know. People are unreasonable and stupid regardless of their cleverness because they fail to see the most basic (i.e. the most difficult) things in the Universe.

You may "love" them enough to save their lives, but you don't love them enough to accept their faults and try to see the world through their eyes.

My love isn't for faults. I have no respect for faultiness (not necessarily disrespect though). I think things that are broken are capable of being fixed, in the right way. I have seen the world through the eyes of others. I'm not disconnected from reality, as much as you seem to want to believe it.

Why is that a big picture issue?

It isn't obvious. It is beyond the scope of this thread. The point is that death is the enemy. That is the big picture.

I love technology, applied science, theory the whole spiel but I won't for a second forget that as much as I think its the greatest thing ever it won't change the way the vast majority of people operate

That sounds nice, but it's just not realistic. When computers become something we interface with directly in our minds, things will change so radically and so unimagineably fast that there is just no predicting how we will change, what we will understand, and what people will be like. I think it is incredibly implausible that people will remain fundamentally indifferent from the way the are today when our hardware is drastically upgraded, our software become open to us to modify and add on to, etc.

So these women who you don't think give any thought to the big picture issues just aren't giving the same value to those issues that you have.

I didn't say they didn't think about "THEIR" big picture. Making a differentiation between "my" big picture and "their" big picture doesn't automaticaly mean that the two are of equal value.

Get into their heads, try to see the world how they see it for just an instance and you will see that the game doesn't have to be some shallow attempt at being a pimpmaster, its the pageantry required to get that close to someone. Its your hero's journey and your reconnection with the world.

You speak as though I am completely disconnected from reality. You don't understand just how wrong you are. People REALLY ARE horrendously shallow. The hero's journey isn't to get an increasingly fine resolution of stupidity, but to create an increasingly powerful method of solving stupidity.

I hope the advice so far presented to Guyledouche shows him that getting a girlfriend is the wrong problem.

Daring, Nate. A little presumptuous though?

That's a joke right?

(No, I don't have a crazy-huge ego. I hope you can appreciate the subtle humor there.)

convincing or converting someone to see YOUR big picture is not sharing. Its pushing isn't it?

It's not "my" big picture. There is no "my" big picture and "your" big picture. There is THE big picture. The Universe and everything about it. What I've been trying to say is just that- people that seek *truth*- not "my truth" or "your truth". There isn't a my truth or your truth. There are a lot of things that can be different if they are mine or yours, but truth isn't one of those. The truth *is* regardless of who happens to be knowing it. The truth isn't much of anything, in fact, it's almost nothing. Out of all possible things, the truth is only a super-tiny subset, and a greatly difficult one to find, at that.

At this point I've kind of lost track to what all we are talking about here...

[tung]

[Kalepha]

I hope the advice so far presented to Guyledouche shows him that getting a girlfriend is the wrong problem.

Daring, Nate. A little presumptuous though?

Daring, yes. Presumptuous, no. If you're on the wrong problem of getting a girl, then your problem becomes one of all the drama that accompanies always having to deny and then having no relevant productivity to show for your little soap operas. But if you're on the right problems, then the problem of getting a girl merely becomes one of arbitrarily deciding when to take breaks. Incidentally, we note that we're taking a sufficiently free culture for granted.

[RighteousReason]

Daring, yes. Presumptuous, no. If you're on the wrong problem of getting a girl, then your problem becomes one of all the drama that accompanies always having to deny and then having no relevant productivity to show for your little soap operas. But if you're on the right problems, then the problem of getting a girl merely becomes one of arbitrarily deciding when to take breaks. Incidentally, we note that we're taking a sufficiently free culture for granted.

I like you man. Happy day ... [wis]

[doublebock]

I like CRPG's alot.  If I started playing one that said "press the spacebar to continue" and I pressed enter 100 times and continuing didn't happen, do I have any right at all to be upset or surprised?  Now what if my friend pressed spacebar and said this game is awesome!  Do I really have the experience with the game to say "Man nuts to that game, it sucked, any game where I have to press spacebar is just wrong for me."

How come there's not an ROFLMAO smiley? That has got to be one of the greatest analogies I have ever heard!

I see no problem with persuading someone to adopt my belief system, and yes I think mine is superior to whatever they showed up with. smile.gif

I agree. It creates alienation in a relationship for each party to have (potentially irreconcilable) different lines of thought. I also believe in something I call 'mental breeding' which is where you spread your heightened understanding of things onto others. This can be lifestyle, philosophies, general knowledge, etc. Think of the people who have affected you have mentally bred their memes into you. Any of your personal heroes and friends have. Respectable people I look up to includes (a handful) Tom Jenkinson, Aaron Funk, Kurt Cobain, Tom Morello, Ray Kurzweil, Charles Darwin, Siddhartha Gautama, Michael Badnarik, Mark Shuttleworth, Richard Stallman, many people on this forum, and many, many other people. You try to collect and combine, fuse, synergize all the ideas and personalities which have affected you and you believe in. Then you spread the meme [thumb]

And do learn social skills. They will always come in handy. And let you understand others better as well. And as Funk pointed out, fastseduction.com is pretty informative, esp. if you have had limited success in the past. Just need to cure aids and herpes and then everything would great there, no worries!

[power.bulls.x]

haha lol . lovely topic .
what you need:
-confidence=testo+hygiene+hygiene+money+clothes+hygiene => style =>look like a winer =>more atractive
-being smart : trial and errors make you learn => it will make you more experiencced and more confident !!

[doug123]

In your particular case I would agree with Duke -- use a dating service.  I haven't used one yet but I have a few friends who have gotten good results (and I am currently considering taking the plunge because it is so very very very hard to find a girl whose mind is as attractive as her body ))

Being able to get most of the "factual" compatability issues out of the way before you ever meet is a good thing.  (Plus), going through a service grants you the luxury of not having to make "the hard sell".  (Plus), you can work your way gradually into the date - starting with emails, then telephone calls, etc.  (Plus) you can always try try and try again.  Practice makes perfect my friend.

Good luck.  I recommend the nerdy science girls.  God, do I love nerdy science girls. ggrrrr

I'm with you Don on the nerdy girls. I like really agressive intelligent women with an agenda; the ones in the middle of a science project that they can use me for further testing.

Of my favorite quotes is this:

Of the various pleasure that man can offer himself, the greatest is pride - the pleasure he takes in his own achievements and in the creation of his own character. The pleasure he takes in the character and achievements of another being is that of admiration. The highest expression of these two responses - pride and admiration - is romantic love. Its celebration is sex.

It is in this sphere above all - in a man's romantic-sexual responses - that his view of himself and of existence stands eloquently revealed. A man falls in love with an sexually desires the person who reflects his own deepest values.
There are two crucial respects in which a man's romantic sexual responses are psychologically revealing : in his choice of partner - and in the meaning, to him, of the sexual act.

[FunkOdyssey]

I like really agressive intelligent women with an agenda

I thought I did too, until I dated a couple. These type of women will not put you at the top of their agenda. They're good if you're very independent yourself, and would rather put career and personal achievements first, and your relationship second or third.

[nihilist]

i havent read any other replies, but when i hear of ppl asking this question i always suggest one thing:

double your dating by david deangelo.

i stumbled across this guy by accident when i was deep in a tickle.com test taking phase. i had unknowingly signed up for his newsletter, then i 'obtained' his book lol.

ill send you the newest version i have of his book, and i still suggest signing up for his newsletter.

when i read his stuff, i realized i did alot of it already, but even i learned a couple nice additiona to my strategy. by most ppls reckoning, ive had a pretty good time with ladies [3sums, orgies etc] but like i said, the book opened a couple doors for me.

if you or anyone else wants the book, email me: nihilistillusion at gmail dot com . ill send to anyone who wants it. i dont recall how large the file is, but id say if you have a yahoo account or a gmail account youll get it no problem. i beleive its a pdf file too, but that shouldnt be a problem for anyone reading this.

additionally, i was gonna make a thread about working out today. search my username tonight and it should be obvious which it is. im going to class soon, so im unable to do it now.

between the 2, you should have a date before the years out if you internalize the changes you need to make. the only qualifier is if youre very obese, in which time it may take the rest of the year to get down to a size generally considered attractive. you, or anyone else, can give me the specifics in the thread ill make.

good luck either way.

[doug123]

I thought I did too, until I dated a couple.  These type of women will not put you at the top of their agenda.  They're good if you're very independent yourself, and would rather put career and personal achievements first, and your relationship second or third.

Yeah, but I do quite well with these types of women.

[DJS]

Yeah, but I do quite well with these types of women.

So I guess, Adam, that you're a whips, chains and handcuffs kind of guy? [lol]


For the record I like the bambis, just not the ones that are deer-in-the-headlights.

[Mind]

guyledouche!! Have you had any luck yet? All of us [airquote] dating experts [/airquote] want to know how things have turned out.

[DJS]

hmmm, I haven't seen him on the forums lately.

[maestro949]

Heh, I thought this thread was finally dead. If none of the above advice works, just get a good paying job. Women will sacrafice on looks, machismo, intellect but a smart woman will never bend when it comes to long term security.

[jackinbox]

The biggest problem I have when comes the time to date a girl is a moral one. I could get the “job” done if I really wanted so but I would have to break some of my moral rules. The problems is that I prefer to date smart and serious girls because nothing turn me off more than a dumb girl, no matter how cute she may be. The problem is that they are looking for a long term relationship and I know that I’m not fit for that. I just want to have “some fun” with a smart girl without becoming too much involved. So, I would have to pretend to be interested for the long run while it’s not the case. I’m too honest to do that.

In the last months, I changed the way I see my relationships with women. I openly acknowledge that I’m not a good candidate for long term relationship. I tell to women right in the beginning that I’m only interested by a friend relationship. I think it’s good to have female friends when you are single. We can even get to be physically intimate one night and remain friends after that because the intentions were clearly stated.

[maestro949]

I thought that the debate over male-female friendship was concluded as impossible...


Sally: We are just going to be friends, OK?
Harry: Great, friends. It's the best thing...You realize, of course, that we can never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.
Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?
Harry: Doesn't matter, because the sex thing is already out there, so the friendship is ultimately doomed, and that is the end of the story.

[FunkOdyssey]

Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.

So true! Its amazing how few women ever come to understand this, even though its such common wisdom. The phenomenon is best witnessed in action when a girl who thinks she has many male friends gets into a serious, monogamous relationship. You'll never see so many "friends" disappear simultaneously. [tung]

[Mind]

Love the "When Harry Met Sally" reference. Although, now that I am older, I find that attitudes change a bit. Sexual desire increases in women (generally) when they reach the 30-40 age range, while it is well known that male testosterone declines dramatically after the mid 30s.