97 replies to this topic

[FunSponge]

Currently on anti psychotics just wondering is there some magical peptide or drug for nuero genesis that could physically heal my brain?

[Mind_Paralysis]

None with evidence of such a thing. There's never been any trials where neurogenics where used for the treatment of Schizophrenia.

 

Buut... if you're feeling adventurous, then the experimental drug DIHEXA could hypothetically have an effect... it makes the brains ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER(!), and as you may be aware, one of the latest theories, with some GOOD genetic evidence to back it up, behind the main mechanism causing schizophrenia is a form of dementia, which, gradually decreases the brains ability to create new synapses.

 

So, in theory, Dihexa could have at least SOME effect on some of the negative symptoms of Schiz'.

 

It's an untested drug though... so I suggest you read up very closely on it, before you try to get it synthesized.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihexa

[FunSponge]

Cheers mind, I will definitely look into DIHEXA, can it be purchased online?, my diagnosis is actually paranoid psychosis with major depression, I got this from huffing gasoline as a young teen, I read NSI is going to trials for schizophrenia and already did trials for MD, given my psychiatric issues are a result of direct brain damage I'm hopefully nuerogenesis can help me, in gasoline there's a chemical touline that destroys the meylin sheath in brain synapses so DIHEXA could potentially also help me.

[John250]

I believe DIHEXA needs to be put into a transdermal DMSO formula for best absorption.

[mono]

Try niacin. Do some reading on megadosing niacin and its potential to reverse the damage psychosis does to the brain. I do believe niacin is linked to nmda/glutamate somehow but I can’t find much literature on this. The other option would be sarcosine. Check out profrontal: https://profrontal.com/

Edited by mono, 04 October 2018 - 01:35 AM.

[FunSponge]

I'll look into Niacin, does anyone know if clozapine increases prolactin as much as seroquel?, Iv been lifting weights over two years with no progress, before I started seroquel I was always very well built without any weights, wouldn't mind getting some of that back, I really want the nsi 189 to work to the point where I wouldn't need an anti psychotic and AD med, can you help me with dosage?, Iv read either 40mg or 80mg a day, I'm thinking 80mg has I want it to work and also cause Iv read it takes up to a month for it to work might get there faster with 80mg

[FunSponge]

I have heard about sarcosine there's a sticky about it on the schizophrenia.com forum, just took my first 80mg dose of NSI, bottoms up.

[Mind_Paralysis]

I have heard about sarcosine there's a sticky about it on the schizophrenia.com forum, just took my first 80mg dose of NSI, bottoms up.

 

HOLD ON!

 

First of all... NSI-189 causes neurogenesis primarily in the hippocampus - unless you have proof that you have damage to your HIPPOCAMPUS, then there's no proof that it will do anything good at all for you.

 

Secondly, it's never been officially tested on people with Schizophrenia - MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE REPORTED IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOUR as a result of NSI-189 - some of the reports are similar in some ways to PSYCHOSIS. There's also reports from people with Bipolar that NSI causes intense mania - since Bipolar and Schizophrenia share more genetic overlap than other psychiatric diseases, this is extra alarming.

 

Thirdly - 80 mg in ONE DOSE, as your FIRST DOSAGE, is not a good idea - you should always start low with research-chemicals like NSI-189 - eliminating any potential unknown side-effects should always be the main focus.

Haven't you seen the data, and tons of posts about it, that NSI-189 has a BELL-shaped dosing-curve? This means, that if you take too much, you will actually *lessen* its effects. There's also some evidence that there is some individual shifting of the dose-curve, meaning that even though 40+40 mg is the most effective for a majority, some people get the maximum benefit at only 20+20 mg.

 

Don't use 80 mg - in fact, don't use NSI-189 at all, unless you have evidence that you have damage to your hippocampus. (and you wouldn't have that, unless you had a proper MRI, or even fMRI)

 

 

I just tried to check out fMRI studies on what kind of damage Petrol Sniffing can cause, which regions are affected, but I'm too tired (I have cognitive issues from burnout) to find any structural abnormalities studies - have you had an MRI or fMRI? PET? SPECT?

Any sort of neuroimaging, to really see what kind of brain-damage you have?

 

And do your Dr's actually agree that you got PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIA from inhalant abuse? It's quite possible the emergence of your schizophrenic symptoms simply coincided with your inhalant abuse, but was in reality unrelated - because I can't find any evidence that the sort of symptoms you describe, would be caused by sniffing petrol. Cognitive issues, memory issues, but not paranoia and magic thinking.

 

 

Btw, is Toluene generally considered to be the substance causing the most damage in the brain from petrol inhalation? I thought it was considered that LEAD was a major culprit, causing all sorts of havoc, when it starts building up in your brain. If there's evidence that Toluene causes the most chronic damage, then it might be a good idea for you to look into neurogenic drugs targetting MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS - since MS actually also causes damage to myelin sheats.

[FunSponge]

Yes, lead is also the big culprit, I have read chronic huffers make a full recovery after 15 years but with leaded gasoline there is no improvement, I have paranoid psychosis not schizophrenia but I think psychosis falls under the umbrella of schizophrenia, the psychosis and hallucination first started when I was high and have carried on into waking sober life, there's photos of me post petrol huffing and I just look completely fucked in the head compared to how I was perfectly fine before hand, no I have no evidence of the hippocampus been damaged, I saw a neurologist in 2014 had an MRI came back no pathology identified, I asked for a flair or a spect scan to identify the damage wasn't given either, I meant to ask my psych doc today could I see a nueropsychiatrist forgot to I also asked my gp who said no, besides psychosis and major depression both of which 80% of ex chronic huffers end up with I am unable to experience emotions or basic sensations such has boredom, can't experience sexuality, I can't access memories, would this not suggest neurological damage?, no emotions might suggest damage to the hippocampus, I'm not well read on neurology, I'm a mental patient with half a brain, I found a user on reddit who also screwed up his brain from solvent abuse he suffers from most of what I do he says NSI 189 as helped him experience emotions again and helped his depression, Iv also read schizophrenics have damaged or smaller hippopotamus, Iv read posts on schizophrenia of NSI 189 users benefiting from it  so I'm going to give it ago, I literally have nothing to loose after 20 years of hell Iv ended up completely screwed in life, I was considering ISRIB before this but don't have the know how for solution, I do appreciate your input, if im going to take it are you saying I should be taking 40 mg twice a day?, I'm happy to be a guinea pig I'll report back on any positive changes.

Edited by FunSponge, 04 October 2018 - 04:25 PM.

[FunSponge]

Can you tell me how to dose it correctly?

[FunSponge]

A user on reddit sent me a message with a source for ISRIB,https://syntharise.c...cts-page/isrib/ anyway to know it's legit?

Could ISRIB potentially treat all the damage in my brain and not just the hippocampus?

Early days but I feel a little more clear headed today, Iv decided to take 20 mg NSI 2X daily.

[Mind_Paralysis]

NSI-189 is preferably dosed two times a day, in a dosage-range from 20 - 80 mg. The preferred form of NSI-189 is Phosphate - the freebase has very low bioavailability, and hence produces somewhat unpredictable results, even when dosed sublingually.

 

I don't know much about ISRIB, but there's of course the big ISRIB-thread, where more knowledgable people than me can tell you more about it. ISRIB seems to have a more general recuperative effect on several forms of traumatic brain injury, so it might actually indeed be a better bet for your particular issues.

 

I wouldn't combine the two though, since that's completely unknown, what could happen then.

[smube]

None with evidence of such a thing. There's never been any trials where neurogenics where used for the treatment of Schizophrenia.

 

Buut... if you're feeling adventurous, then the experimental drug DIHEXA could hypothetically have an effect... it makes the brains ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER(!), and as you may be aware, one of the latest theories, with some GOOD genetic evidence to back it up, behind the main mechanism causing schizophrenia is a form of dementia, which, gradually decreases the brains ability to create new synapses.

 

So, in theory, Dihexa could have at least SOME effect on some of the negative symptoms of Schiz'.

 

It's an untested drug though... so I suggest you read up very closely on it, before you try to get it synthesized.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihexa

 

I've seen you make this recommendation before with the same enthusiasm. "In an assay of neurotrophic activity, Dihexa was found to be seven orders of magnitude more potent than brain-derived neurotrophic factor" I would not go from that to it "make the brain's ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER". This does not even mean you will gain back any cognitive deficits from a mental illness. Since it binds to hepatocyte growth factor isn't it doing a lot more than synapse formation? I've seen a lot of warnings about tumor growth with dihexa.

 

 

Why not suggest 7,8-DHF first?At least there is some evidence with animal studies that it might treat cognitive deficits of schizophrenia. I've been thinking about trying 7,8-DHF for a long time myself, but I'm hesitating not only from lack of human trials but also because I've been reading about the dosage and ROA, e.g.:

 

https://www.longecit...hydroxyflavone/

 

I seem to remember, that in one of the studies, they were administering 5mg per Kg to mice

(and that's by injection, not orally).   

So on that basis, 1mg for a ~75 kilo Longecity guinea pig probably isn't going to

have much impact.

 

Some simple arithmetic:

Let's imagine that the human equivalent dose of this 5mg/Kg (for mice) is, say, 1mg/Kg.

(Note: In order to ensure publishable results, researchers often max the dosages to

obtain a nice, sizable effect size -- in short, rodents are routinely over-dosed)

 

But I digress, so 1mg/kg for humans (hypothetically).  For a 75 Kilo guinea pig, that would be

75mg as an active dose, ... but note... that would be 75mg, taken by injection.

Orally, we need to multiply that 75mg figure by 20, since oral administration is only ~5% bioavailable.

So 75mg X 20 = 1500mg  (based on a hypothetical 1mg/kg dose)

 

 

Also have read it is not water soluble and that insufflation would not work.

 

Since the information about dosage and ROA seems totally sketchy, I haven't tried 7,8-DHF yet, but would definitely rather try it before dihexa.

[Painkillerrr]

None with evidence of such a thing. There's never been any trials where neurogenics where used for the treatment of Schizophrenia.

Buut... if you're feeling adventurous, then the experimental drug DIHEXA could hypothetically have an effect... it makes the brains ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER(!), and as you may be aware, one of the latest theories, with some GOOD genetic evidence to back it up, behind the main mechanism causing schizophrenia is a form of dementia, which, gradually decreases the brains ability to create new synapses.

So, in theory, Dihexa could have at least SOME effect on some of the negative symptoms of Schiz'.

It's an untested drug though... so I suggest you read up very closely on it, before you try to get it synthesized.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihexa

"it makes the brains ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER(!)"

No it does not. Dihexa is 1 million times more potent than bdnf but it does not mean that the brain can create millions of synapses extra.

[John250]

I've seen you make this recommendation before with the same enthusiasm. "In an assay of neurotrophic activity, Dihexa was found to be seven orders of magnitude more potent than brain-derived neurotrophic factor" I would not go from that to it "make the brain's ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER". This does not even mean you will gain back any cognitive deficits from a mental illness. Since it binds to hepatocyte growth factor isn't it doing a lot more than synapse formation? I've seen a lot of warnings about tumor growth with dihexa.


Why not suggest 7,8-DHF first?At least there is some evidence with animal studies that it might treat cognitive deficits of schizophrenia. I've been thinking about trying 7,8-DHF for a long time myself, but I'm hesitating not only from lack of human trials but also because I've been reading about the dosage and ROA, e.g.:

https://www.longecit...hydroxyflavone/



Also have read it is not water soluble and that insufflation would not work.

Since the information about dosage and ROA seems totally sketchy, I haven't tried 7,8-DHF yet, but would definitely rather try it before dihexa.

Today is day 3 of 30mg 7,8 from Nootropicdepot. I don’t notice anything but I don’t really expect you as I’m just using it for it’s antioxidant and neuroprotective affects.

[smube]

Today is day 3 of 30mg 7,8 from Nootropicdepot. I don’t notice anything but I don’t really expect you as I’m just using it for it’s antioxidant and neuroprotective affects.

 

How do you take it? Sublingually, insufflate? It's not effecting neurotransmitter receptors so it shouldn't be something you feel. If it works you would just notice better performance on mental tasks. I would guess that would take at least several weeks of chronic use. Are you not worried about lack of human studies and possible harm from long term use?

Edited by smube, 07 October 2018 - 12:46 AM.

[John250]

How do you take it? Sublingually, insufflate? It's not effecting neurotransmitter receptors so it shouldn't be something you feel. If it works you would just notice better performance on mental tasks. I would guess that would take at least several weeks of chronic use. Are you not worried about lack of human studies and possible harm from long term use?

I just take it orally. I wasn’t aware there weren’t human studies I thought 7,8-Dihydroxyflavone was just a health supplement like any of the others with antioxidant effects. It’s just a flavone like any of the others like narnigen, quercetin,etc.. right?

[FunSponge]

Hey guys, day 5 on NSI 189 40 mg twice daily.

Heads clearer, which means there's been a reduction in psychosis, I have read schizophrenia is linked to the hippocampus, for some reason I'm able to fall asleep at 7 or 8 in the evening not that I'm tired just depressed and want to go to bed, I'm due to start clozapine this week, given how I'm getting improvement from NSI should I start clozapine as well just to be safe?, next thing I'm looking at to further improve is ISRIB, buying a gram this week, could I just take it under the tongue?, Iv read about it been difficult to solute in water but also it only takes a minuscule amount to get into the brain to work, could anyone tell me dosage guides?, how long of a course would I need?

Edited by FunSponge, 08 October 2018 - 09:03 AM.

[FunSponge]

Or maybe Dihexa might be a better option for now, read up a bit on it it says it's prescribed to those who have lost neurons from brain injury like me, can anyone advice?, it's hard for me to research this stuff seeing has I'm half a vegetable.

[FunSponge]

Can anyone get back to me?, which would be better for my issues, ISRIB or Dihexa?, or both?

[John250]

Can anyone get back to me?, which would be better for my issues, ISRIB or Dihexa?, or both?

Dihexa seems to be very neuroprotective but bioavailability is an issue. I believe it needs to be transdermal but not sure if DMSO is best or a different formula

[Mind_Paralysis]

"it makes the brains ability to create new synapses ONE MILLION TIMES STRONGER(!)"

No it does not. Dihexa is 1 million times more potent than bdnf but it does not mean that the brain can create millions of synapses extra.

 

Fair enough - I won't be promoting Dihexa quite as hyperbolically in the future.

 

Being many, many times stronger than BDNF does indeed not guarantee that the drug can promote synaptic formation a million times more effectively - there's bound to be other variables controlling synaptic formation capacity, now that I give it some further thought.

 

It does make me curious HOW much stronger the synapse-formation could get, with Dihexa...? 300 times greater? 2000 times more synapses? Only 40 times? And then, to what an extent would the brains ability to create new synapses have to be, to counteract some of the cognitive issues caused by Schizophrenia? 2000 times? 10,000 times? (sounds insane... but I suppose it's not impossible - as far as I know, there's no hard data on how impaired synaptic formation for a schizophrenic is, when compared to the neurotypical population-)
 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Dihexa seems to be very neuroprotective but bioavailability is an issue. I believe it needs to be transdermal but not sure if DMSO is best or a different formula

 

I've seen this claimed multiple times - I've even claimed it myself!

 

However... can we honestly say this is true? Has this been proven in a laboratory setting?

 

Because when I check this paper, which initially described Dihexa:

 

Evaluation of Metabolically Stabilized Angiotensin IV Analogs as Procognitive/Antidementia Agents

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3533412/
 

...yielded an orally active, blood-barrier permeant, metabolically stabilized analog, N-hexanoic-Tyr-Ile-(6) aminohexanoic amide (dihexa),

 

 

It says it's orally active and can cross the blood-brain barrier.

 

 

Has anyone who's actually researched Dihexa professionally claimed that it has poor bioavailability? If not, I would find the claim rather dubious.

[Painkillerrr]

Fair enough - I won't be promoting Dihexa quite as hyperbolically in the future.

Being many, many times stronger than BDNF does indeed not guarantee that the drug can promote synaptic formation a million times more effectively - there's bound to be other variables controlling synaptic formation capacity, now that I give it some further thought.

It does make me curious HOW much stronger the synapse-formation could get, with Dihexa...? 300 times greater? 2000 times more synapses? Only 40 times? And then, to what an extent would the brains ability to create new synapses have to be, to counteract some of the cognitive issues caused by Schizophrenia? 2000 times? 10,000 times? (sounds insane... but I suppose it's not impossible - as far as I know, there's no hard data on how impaired synaptic formation for a schizophrenic is, when compared to the neurotypical population-)

Do you think that we would need more synapses? Because austist brain is way fuller of synapses then our normal brain

Schizophrenia has tons of dysfunctions, agonist of trkB would not help. Reelin is one of the main problem in Schizophrenia, targeting reelin could help (in turn it works somehow like bdnf causing neurite outgrowth

Edited by Painkillerrr, 09 October 2018 - 05:31 PM.

[John250]

I've seen this claimed multiple times - I've even claimed it myself!

However... can we honestly say this is true? Has this been proven in a laboratory setting?

Because when I check this paper, which initially described Dihexa:
Evaluation of Metabolically Stabilized Angiotensin IV Analogs as Procognitive/Antidementia Agents
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3533412/


It says it's orally active and can cross the blood-brain barrier.


Has anyone who's actually researched Dihexa professionally claimed that it has poor bioavailability? If not, I would find the claim rather dubious.

Do you currently use it and if so what doses and what brand?

[FunSponge]

I'm glad your all having a good discussion while doing absolutely nothing to help me, I'm trying to repair my brain 20 years later after huffing leaded gasoline for 6 months, I need the insights from people who arent currently experiencing psychosis and major depression like I am, its highly likely the leaded gasoline as damaged my synapses leading to these hallucinations, Iv read psychosis / schizophrenia is a result of pruning of these synapses so I have ordered half a gram of DIHEXA, will half a gram be enough?

 

Depression / psychosis as gotten so bad these past few days I'm on the verge of doing something drastic, I'm doing what I can to get better but I need the help of people far more knowledgeable then me.   

[mono]

Why don’t you just try some of the racetam class they are great for repairing the brain. Plus if you are experiencing psychosis you need to start taking an antipsychotic. AP’s are ok if you take some precautions they have side effects but the positives outweigh the negatives. I can’t hold down study or a job without it. Try NAC to help with protecting the brain and helping with the NMDA. Don’t forget sarcosine either !

Edited by mono, 10 October 2018 - 05:59 PM.

[Finn]

Lithium seems to help with psychosis caused by certain other types of "brain damage" like frontotemporal dementia and Alzheimer. I'd say it is safer to try established drugs like lithium before trying substances that are not even in official human trial stage yet.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5322244/

 

 

 

 

Low-dose Lithium treatment for agitation and psychosis in Alzheimer’s disease and Frontotemporal dementia: A case series

----

 

In our case series, when low-dose lithium was used as an add-on to antipsychotic treatment, several symptoms improved: auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, paranoia, anxiety, anger/aggression, agitation, impulsivity, and physical violence. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Finn, 11 October 2018 - 09:00 AM.

[FunSponge]

Thanks guys, I had never heard of racetam until you mentioned it I'll look into them, Iv already been on lithium didn't do anything along with several Anti psychotics Iv been on over the past 10 years, only reason I'm finally starting clozapine is because I looked it up and suggested it to my doctors.

You might not believe me but I'm actually getting relief from psychosis on NSI - 189, Iv read schizophrenics have damage in the hippocampus which NSI treats, maybe the reason Iv been treatment resistant is because my psychiatric disorders are a result of toxic chemical brain damage, logic would state heal the damage psychically and undue the damage, I don't know enough about which areas are damaged from huffing leaded gasoline I'll try and look into it, right now I'm healing the hippocampus with NSI 189, I think next DIHEXA could do an excellent job of repairing growing new synapses it's well known psychosis / Sz occurs of pruning / break down of these synapses.

What other areas of the brain should I be trying to heal?, and which nuerogenics would I need to treat these areas?

[mono]

I think in sz and psychosis there are a few different hypothesis’ about how it can manifests. Some are related to the inflammation of certain pathways others to the buildup of Adrenalin. From my understanding there are two more main areas that you would want to focus on that being the dopamine and glutamate systems. You can read up on this by searching for “dopamine hypothesis schizophrenia” or look into the nmda receptor in schizophrenia and you will find information on what I am talking about.

I think the racetams are great they help in the glutamatergic systems of our brain and just about all of them protect and build the nmda receptor (which is hypothesised to be dysfunctional), some like phenylpiracetam are more specific in that it can help build the dopamine pathways more than the others. You need to take the racetams everyday and it takes about a week sometimes for them to build up and start working but there are loads of studies in dementia stroke and other cognitive problems where they show a lot of potential in repairing the brain.

Sarcosine and NAC are both supposed to be helpful. Current evidence indicates the roles of glutamatergic system in this disorder. N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) also increases extracellular glutamate.
The glutamatergic system is a key point in pathogenesis of schizophrenia. Sarcosine (N-methylglycine) is an exogenous amino acid that acts as a glycine transporter inhibitor. It modulates glutamatergic transmission by increasing glycine concentration around NMDA (N-methyl-d-aspartate) receptors. In patients with schizophrenia, the function of the glutamatergic system in the prefrontal cortex is impaired, which may promote negative and cognitive symptoms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/29126981/
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4632760/

Edited by mono, 11 October 2018 - 04:41 PM.