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decrease GABA-A to increase IQ?

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#1 farshad

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:31 PM


gaba-a is more inhibitory than gaba-b. BDNF decreases gaba and I believe also in the amygdala BDNF when increased increases learning faster etc. What if you increase excitatory neurotransmitters etc to improve learning? for example chronic administration of taurine decreases GABA. What about neurosteroids like DHEA sulfate, pregnenolone sulfate and progesterone sulfate and possibly more ? I found another thread on this but not much else info https://www.longecit...in-adult-brain/ but GABA also has a role in neuroplasticity but I believe it is better to decrease it to improve cognitive function since you have anandamide as a backup(or use a faah/MAGL inhibitor). And it would be better to increase GABA-b using f-phenibut etc. Also some estrogen metabolites, damn how many hormones are there? like 600? How would you find all these and which has cognitive benefits..


Edited by farshad, 09 July 2019 - 03:34 PM.


#2 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 03:46 PM

Don't you have anxiety issues?  I don't think I'd try to downregulate, antagonize, play with, etc. *any* gaba receptors of any subtype in that situation.

 

 

 


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#3 farshad

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 09:09 PM

Effect of the HDAC Inhibitor, Sodium Butyrate, on Neurogenesis in a Rat Model of Neonatal Hypoxia-Ischemia: Potential Mechanism of Action. https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/30767185
 


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#4 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 09:28 PM

Is Sodium Butyrate a GABA-A antagonist? Is that the mechanism? I have no idea what the MOA is of that compound.

Neurogensis is a fine thing. but if you have an anxiety disorder, I think you are going to make yourself more miserable taking anything that antagonizes any of the GABA receptor subunits.

I guess you can try, but start small.

#5 farshad

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Posted 09 July 2019 - 10:14 PM

not that I know of but maybe butyrate can decrease GABA-A (and possibly increase GABA-b) indirectly by increasing BDNF,NGF,GDNF etc (via inhibiting HDAC), dopamine etc they are all excitatory https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4864053/

 

 


Edited by farshad, 09 July 2019 - 10:16 PM.


#6 Keizo

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 07:53 AM

I don't know about taurine, just my subjective experience with that during short periods of taking it makes me think it's both stimulating and relaxing. It certainly does something with cognition, to some extent, not sure what the effect would be long term.

 

But yeah there's a lot of substances people on this forum and other places have taken that basically shift the balance of inhibition versus stimulation, everything from racetams (which to my mind are stimulating in the vague sense, e.g. can cause headaches, muscle tension, brain fog, irritability, increased amount of intelligent thoughts, "creativity", etc) to pure GABA antagonists (I don't know if anyone seriously used the heavy stuff to improve their IQ or mental performance, but certainly things like ginkgo biloba).

IQ is probably a bit weird and complicated but in a more broad sense of improving performance, yeah cranking up the dial of brain activity on your brain (so to speak) is perhaps not the definition of improving mental performance, but one of the obvious ways it could and can be done. AFAIK it's well established prescription stimulants (methylphenidate, d-amphetamine) at low doses can have some mild or moderate effect on things like working memory in healthy individuals.

 

 

Cerebrolysin I believe is a positive allosteric modulator of GABA-b receptors (e.g. on the other hand benzodiazepines are that on GABA-a receptors), or something close to that, at least in some particular circumstance, maybe it was a test-tube study I don't remember. (It also has some other potential actions relating to anxiety, that are very interesting and perhaps unique. I haven't read the paper summarizing cerebrolysin in a long time, but it mentioned an enzyme that basically trains (or un-trains) phobias and fear responses, and cerebrolysin having something to do with that.) Meanwhile it also has some more stimulating effects (due to CNTF, IGF-1, BDNF etc. type properties). (IME cerebrolysin certainly is relaxing to  a small degree, also stimulates thought and alleviates dysthymia for me, the best thing tho is that it seems to produce long-lasting effects. Only potentially bad thing is I can't drink coffee any longer, maybe due to all the cerebrolysin I've been using or maybe due to something else like benzo withdrawal years ago. Coffee makes me way too stimulated these days, even tho my overall state is much lower anxiety than ~10 years ago when I could drink lots of coffee.).

 


Edited by Keizo, 10 July 2019 - 07:54 AM.


#7 farshad

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 03:39 PM

Terpene trilactones from Ginkgo biloba are antagonists of cortical glycine and GABA(A) receptors.

 
 
Long-term administration of Greek Royal Jelly decreases GABA concentration in the striatum and hypothalamus of naturally aged Wistar male rats

 

alcohol increases BDNF possibly decrease GABA?


Edited by farshad, 12 July 2019 - 03:42 PM.


#8 unbreakable

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 04:12 PM

alcohol increases BDNF possibly decrease GABA?

 

Trying to increase IQ with alcohol would likely fail. ;) 

 

Chronic (very) high alcohol consumption will obviously reduce GABA (effects).

 

 

Like Daniel Cooper I don't understand why you would want to decrease or antagonize GABA, especially if you have anxiety issues.
Effective GABA-A antagonists would likely have serious or intolerable side effects like seizures, panic attacks...



#9 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 05:23 PM

Ginkgo is a relatively weak antagonist of GABA-A.  If you're dead set on trying a GABA antagonist, start with that one.

 

However, given your past and I suspect current anxiety issues, I don't think you're going to enjoy it.  It isn't likely to hurt you, but it might make you somewhat miserable.  

 

Also, keep in mind that increased anxiety certainly doesn't do positive things to IQ.  Your brain only has a certain amount of cognitive processing available at any moment.  To the extent that some of that processing is being tied up with worry and anxiety, it is not available for problem solving or learning.

 

Whatever you do, take it slow and best of luck.  Let us know how it goes.

 

 

 


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#10 farshad

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Posted 12 July 2019 - 06:05 PM

is it possible that GABA-B agonist can decrease GABA-A ? I also read somewhere blocking GABA-b increases dopamine, no idea how true that is.



#11 farshad

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 05:17 PM

Thiocolchicoside acts as a competitiveGABAA receptor antagonist



#12 unbreakable

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 04:56 AM

Thiocolchicoside acts as a competitiveGABAA receptor antagonist

 

It has powerful convulsant activity and should not be used in seizure-prone individuals.[9][10][11]

 

Side effects of thiocolchicoside can include nausea, allergy and vasovagal reactions.[12] Liver injury, pancreatitis, seizures, blood cell disorders, severe cutaneous disorders, rhabdomyolysis, and reproductive disorders have all been recorded

 

Thiocolchicoside is teratogenic in experimental animals and also damages chromosomes. Human data are limited to a follow-up of about 30 pregnant women (no major malformations) and reports of altered spermatogenesis, including cases of azoospermia. In practice, there is no justification for exposing patients to the adverse effects of thiocolchicoside. It is better to use an effective, well-known analgesic for patients complaining of muscle pain, starting with paracetamol.[13]



#13 unbreakable

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 06:37 AM

double post


Edited by unbreakable, 14 July 2019 - 06:38 AM.


#14 farshad

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Posted 20 July 2019 - 12:50 AM

DHEA is a negative allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor.

 



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#15 farshad

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 06:01 AM

st johns wort (Hyperforin)  It antagonises the GABA receptors







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