24 replies to this topic

[brighty]

I am a male in the late 30s who have been taking Niagen for two years at 250 mg/day in the morning. I am currently taking Throne Research Niacel 250 and considering doubling the dose to 500 mg/day. Have studies and science proven that taking 500 mg/day is more effective than 250 mg/day? Should I increase the dose to 500 mg/day? Is it better to take all 500 mg in the morning or split the dose between 250 mg in the morning and another 250 mg in the evening if I increase the dose? Thanks.

[Linux]

"Have studies and science proven that taking 500 mg/day is more effective than 250 mg/day?"

 

 

Effective for what?

[bluemoon]

Have studies and science proven that taking 500 mg/day is more effective than 250 mg/day? Should I increase the dose to 500 mg/day? Is it better to take all 500 mg in the morning or split the dose between 250 mg in the morning and another 250 mg in the evening if I increase the dose? Thanks.

 

 

An Elysium study showed that for healthy 55 to 79 year olds, 8 weeks of 500 mg of NR along with 100 mg of pterostilbine, people walked almost 8% farther on a 6 minute walking test and performed 8% better on a balance test than a placebo group. 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostilbine a day for 8 weeks had no measurable effect over the placebo group for those two tests.

 

Charles Brenner said two years ago that you would want to take 500 mg in the morning and later said those who take "larger doses" often split them between morning and evening, but I think he was referring to 750 mg+ NR for that. 

 

I'd try 500 mg in the morning for 6 to 8 weeks and see if you like it more than 250 mg. Brenner said he was taking 250 mg of NR in 2016 but said he had increased that to 500 mg in 2017.  No idea how much he takes now but very likely between 500 mg and 1,000 mg.  

 

 

Edited by bluemoon, 25 December 2019 - 12:54 PM.

[Linux]

An Elysium study showed that for healthy 55 to 79 year olds, 8 weeks of 500 mg of NR along with 100 mg of pterostilbine, people walked almost 8% farther on a 6 minute walking test and performed 8% better on a balance test than a placebo group. 250 mg of NR with 50 mg of pterostilbine a day for 8 weeks had no measurable effect over the placebo group for those two tests.

 

The original poster is in his late 30s. If NR + pterostilbene increased walking speed by 8% in 55 to 79 year olds what is the probability OR guarantee that it does anything in a young specimen?

 

There´s no proof that NR/NMN does anything in younger people and the human studies in older subjects so far have next to nothing to show on either biomarkers, function or performance. 

[bluemoon]

The original poster is in his late 30s. If NR + pterostilbene increased walking speed by 8% in 55 to 79 year olds what is the probability OR guarantee that it does anything in a young specimen?

 

There´s no proof that NR/NMN does anything in younger people and the human studies in older subjects so far have next to nothing to show on either biomarkers, function or performance. 

 

I said nothing about a guarantee but just repeated what Brenner said about when to take NR. People in their 30s have reported positive changes and never implied studies showed that. There's nothing radical about trying a larger dose for a few weeks. 

 

You're last statement is wrong unless pterostilbine was responsible for most or all of the improvements in the Elysium study. 

[Linux]

You're last statement is wrong unless pterostilbine was responsible for most or all of the improvements in the Elysium study. 

 

"Improvements". You may be impressed by an 8% faster walking speed and 8% better balance but I need more than that to justify this expensive supplement. I highly doubt a 30 year old would be able to discern any of these "improvements". NR can´t even raise NAD in human muscle tissues.

[bluemoon]

"Improvements". You may be impressed by an 8% faster walking speed and 8% better balance but I need more than that to justify this expensive supplement. I highly doubt a 30 year old would be able to discern any of these "improvements". NR can´t even raise NAD in human muscle tissues.

 

Do you know of any other drug or supplement that improves walking speed and balance by 8% than NR/ptero? The OP said that he is in his late 30s, not that he is 30. I didn't write that I am impressed with the 8% increase and was merely passing along information that you were not correct about. 

[joesixpack]

Do you know of any other drug or supplement that improves walking speed and balance by 8% than NR/ptero? The OP said that he is in his late 30s, not that he is 30. I didn't write that I am impressed with the 8% increase and was merely passing along information that you were not correct about. 

 

I am impressed by an 8% increase in gait and balance. At any age. Any improvement is better than a decrease which is what we are all facing. Good point on your part.

[Fredrik]

I am impressed by an 8% increase in gait and balance. At any age. Any improvement is better than a decrease which is what we are all facing. Good point on your part.

 

The only ages that showed a modest 8% improvement in that study, made by a supplement company selling said supplement, was in the 55 to 79 year olds. So not any age. Old(er) age. There´s no evidence that the OP who is in his late 30s would experience any increase in walking speed and better balance.

Edited by Fredrik, 27 December 2019 - 05:31 PM.

[Harkijn]

Those who feel their gait and balance is not up to par won't call 8 % improvement modest, even if they are only in their 30s. I agree that a fit young person does not need NR.

OP, Linux asked you an important question, though perhaps rather curt.....

[bluemoon]

The only ages that showed a modest 8% improvement in that study, made by a supplement company selling said supplement, was in the 55 to 79 year olds. So not any age. Old(er) age. There´s no evidence that the OP who is in his late 30s would experience any increase in walking speed and better balance.

 

This thread is funny. Is there some moral dilemma if the OP takes more NR and maybe adds 100 mg pterostilbine for 8 weeks? Is this experiment going to bankrupt his retirement? 

 

"Don't do it, OP! Not until you see the results of a phase 3 trial in 2025."

 

Sheesh.

[Fredrik]

This thread is funny. Is there some moral dilemma if the OP takes more NR and maybe adds 100 mg pterostilbine for 8 weeks? Is this experiment going to bankrupt his retirement? 

 

"Don't do it, OP! Not until you see the results of a phase 3 trial in 2025."

 

Sheesh.

 

Not at all. We just question "why?". Why double the dose of a supplement that doesn´t change any biochemical or physiological parameters in healthy individuals? 

[bluemoon]

Not at all. We just question "why?". Why double the dose of a supplement that doesn´t change any biochemical or physiological parameters in healthy individuals? 

 

We don't know what it does for someone in his late 30s, and it just takes a simple 8 week trial of one to see if he feels any benefit. I'd say he should add 100 mg of pterostilbine to reproduce Elysium's trial. 

[brighty]

Increasing the dose will not bankrupt my retirement. I am considering increasing the dose after seeing that Brenner also increased his dose and it has been shown that 500 mg / day provides even more NAD improvements. I am trying to see if any of you here can point me to studies that show 500 mg/day provides more benefits than 250 mg/day other than just increasing more NAD.

 

But I am also concerned that my body will become too accustomed to NR after increasing the dose and will lose the ability to produce my own NAD. This also leads to another concern. Will I age faster after increasing the dose to 500 mg/day and then dropping it back to 250 mg / day after a period of time? I have read from the NMN forum that somebody took a huge dose of NMN for some time and decided to stop taking NMN. Then he found out that his biological age is actually older than his biological age before starting to take NMN. I think this is valid comparisons since both NR and NMN are Vitamin B3 based NAD precursors.

 

I used to take pterostilbene along with NR, resveratrol and curcumin. I have dropped pterostilbene after reading a study that shows pterostilbene actually increases cholesterol. I only take resveratrol and curcumin with NR right now.

 

https://www.nutritio...ldl-cholesterol

 

[Linux]

 

I am trying to see if any of you here can point me to studies that show 500 mg/day provides more benefits than 250 mg/day other than just increasing more NAD.

 

I asked you earlier what you thought NR was effective for. But you didn´t answer. You want "more benefits" by increasing the dose of NR. Now I ask again, what benefits of NR are you talking about? 

[bluemoon]

 

Increasing the dose will not bankrupt my retirement. I am considering increasing the dose after seeing that Brenner also increased his dose and it has been shown that 500 mg / day provides even more NAD improvements. I am trying to see if any of you here can point me to studies that show 500 mg/day provides more benefits than 250 mg/day other than just increasing more NAD.

 

But I am also concerned that my body will become too accustomed to NR after increasing the dose and will lose the ability to produce my own NAD. This also leads to another concern. Will I age faster after increasing the dose to 500 mg/day and then dropping it back to 250 mg / day after a period of time? I have read from the NMN forum that somebody took a huge dose of NMN for some time and decided to stop taking NMN. Then he found out that his biological age is actually older than his biological age before starting to take NMN. I think this is valid comparisons since both NR and NMN are Vitamin B3 based NAD precursors.

 

I used to take pterostilbene along with NR, resveratrol and curcumin. I have dropped pterostilbene after reading a study that shows pterostilbene actually increases cholesterol. I only take resveratrol and curcumin with NR right now.

 

https://www.nutritio...ldl-cholesterol

 

 

1. Brenner is 57 or 58 years old

 

2. The NMN story is from Lawrence W on the "NMN experiences" thread that he started. His biological age after stopping NMN was essentially the same as his original baseline, within error.

 

3. A study showed that pterostilbine raised LDL cholesterol but only a little, and they noted not enough to increase the risk of a heart attack.

 

4. If you have fatty liver, there is evidence that taking 500 mg for several weeks might reduce that by 10% to 20%. Elysium has started a study on this that ends in April (so results likely in summer of 2021) but assume they are also including pterostilbine and may be using 1000 mg of NR for their trial.

Edited by bluemoon, 29 December 2019 - 11:36 AM.

[brighty]

 

I asked you earlier what you thought NR was effective for. But you didn´t answer. You want "more benefits" by increasing the dose of NR. Now I ask again, what benefits of NR are you talking about? 

 

I want to see more improvements in metabolism so my body weight will be more in control and reduce belly fat. I also want to see more improvements in slowing down aging of cells. 

[Dorian Grey]

More isn't always better.  Check out Chris Masterjohn's video in my post in this thread:

 

https://www.longecit...boside-is-crap/

 

Apparently the body disposes of excess NR by methylating it into urinary waste and this can hamper methylation in other physiologies.  

[aribadabar]

So the current results point that unless you are 50+, don't bother with NR as it won't do anything appreciable for your health.

And even then, it's marginal at best. OP would be better off saving his $$ for retirement/next (other )anti-aging compound.

[joesixpack]

So the current results point that unless you are 50+, don't bother with NR as it won't do anything appreciable for your health.

And even then, it's marginal at best. OP would be better off saving his $$ for retirement/next (other )anti-aging compound.

 

Well, I would suggest if you are not over 40 it will not help. But after that I think it will. I am 70. I have had significant relief from osteo arthritis in my feet. That is what I can feel. I do not know what it is helping in other areas. I have been taking it for a little over a year. The antiinflamatory effect became evident after 6 months and persists.

[Harkijn]

Looking at those around me in their early fourties I would agree that 40 years is about right for basically healthy people. However many people younger than that have chronic conditions. They might very well try NR. I am 67 yo, have taken NR for about 5 years. Last year MyDNAge estimated my bio age  61 yo.

[joesixpack]

Looking at those around me in their early fourties I would agree that 40 years is about right for basically healthy people. However many people younger than that have chronic conditions. They might very well try NR. I am 67 yo, have taken NR for about 5 years. Last year MyDNAge estimated my bio age  61 yo.

 

Good point on those who may have medical conditions that could benefit from NR supplementation. I agree completely. Maybe my osteoarthritis would not have developed as far as it has if I had started NR in my 30's. Now if I don't take it for a few days, the pain starts inching back.

 

My condition is injury induced from playing soccer in college. I did not know I would get it until it showed up in my early 40's one day. I had one operation to clear out bone spurs and floaters in my 40's, nothing since. Developed allergies to all NSAIDS after taking them at prescription strength for 15 years.

 

Now pain free while supplementing.

 

So, perhaps people that have reason to believe they either have a chronic condition developing, or have reason to believe they will develop one, would benefit from supplementation.

[MikeDC]

NAD+ is increased more for young people than old people at the same dose.
250mg is plenty for people under 40. Besides we don’t know if it is the more the better.

[Oakman]

Brighty, I'm 70, and in the last few years I've probably taken every reasonable possible dose for a time, from 1 gram to 150 mgs.per day, from AM only to AM & PM, to spread thru the day. For the last year (until TurNiagen changed their capsule size from 150 to 300 mgs), I'd been taking 150 mg in the AM, with occassionaly 150 mg PM. It's not the only things I take, however. Over that time, I can't say I noticed any difference with different doses, but I don't feel as though NR is something you "feel" quickly or even over weeks and months, rather (if it is effective at all) it's something that helps keep your body from falling prey to the various NAD+ related deficiencies that herald typical 'old age'. IOW, perhaps it keep you feeling younger than you otherwise would? How do you **feel** that? You don't. It's just the way you are.

 

One thing to note is what else do you take? I also take NMN and other NAD+ boosting supplements that either suppress NAD+ consuming processes, or augment NAD+ production. I hope that synergy adds noticeably more NAD+ to my system than NR alone. Read that to be I do not believe NR is the ONLY required molecule for healthy aging.

 

Over these years, I can tell you that **something** has changed in my body for the better and I no longer have joint pain and inflammation. I'm not sore in the morning, or sore even after modest to extensive exercise, I rise early each day, have energy. I don't know why exactly, because I can't go back and do it again differently to see if anything I DON'T do would change what has happened.

 

Regardless of what dose you decide on, my opinion, not backed by studies of supposed "benefit" is that ANY dose of supplemental NAD+ is better than none. Perhaps it only 'fills in the potholes' of NAD+ deficiency, if any exist in your metabolism. But for the small cost of any reasonable dose of NR, you really can't argue that increased NAD+ levels anywhere in your body are a bad thing, esp as you age past 40 or 50 or some age beyond youth.

 

 

Edited by Oakman, 12 January 2020 - 03:20 PM.

[joesixpack]

Brighty, I'm 70, and in the last few years I've probably taken every reasonable possible dose for a time, from 1 gram to 150 mgs.per day, from AM only to AM & PM, to spread thru the day. For the last year (until TurNiagen changed their capsule size from 150 to 300 mgs), I'd been taking 150 mg in the AM, with occassionaly 150 mg PM. It's not the only things I take, however. Over that time, I can't say I noticed any difference with different doses, but I don't feel as though NR is something you "feel" quickly or even over weeks and months, rather (if it is effective at all) it's something that helps keep your body from falling prey to the various NAD+ related deficiencies that herald typical 'old age'. IOW, perhaps it keep you feeling younger than you otherwise would? How do you **feel** that? You don't. It's just the way you are.

 

One thing to note is what else do you take? I also take NMN and other NAD+ boosting supplements that either suppress NAD+ consuming processes, or augment NAD+ production. I hope that synergy adds noticeably more NAD+ to my system than NR alone. Read that to be I do not believe NR is the ONLY required molecule for healthy aging.

 

Over these years, I can tell you that **something** has changed in my body for the better and I no longer have joint pain and inflammation. I'm not sore in the morning, or sore even after modest to extensive exercise, I rise early each day, have energy. I don't know why exactly, because I can't go back and do it again differently to see if anything I DON'T do would change what has happened.

 

Regardless of what dose you decide on, my opinion, not backed by studies of supposed "benefit" is that ANY dose of supplemental NAD+ is better than none. Perhaps it only 'fills in the potholes' of NAD+ deficiency, if any exist in your metabolism. But for the small cost of any reasonable dose of NR, you really can't argue that increased NAD+ levels anywhere in your body are a bad thing, esp as you age past 40 or 50 or some age beyond youth.

 

I agree with these observations as well. I don't take other NAD+ pre cursors, but I take C60 and a number of vitamins.

 

I did not notice anything in particular when taking NR a year and a half ago, until 5 months in, I noticed I no longer had no pain in my feet. It was subtle at first, like a malfunctioning refrigerator suddenly stops making noise. I was that used to the pain. Then I paid attention and realized that the pain really was not there when I take it, and comes back when I don't. There may be other effects, but this one is a game changer for me. I don't know if it will be an anti inflammatory for anyone else, but then again, my hair is not coming in darker and thicker, like it seems to for other people. It may just have different effects for everyone, based on their health. I take 300mg a day.