3083 replies to this topic

[smithx]

I was responding to a post on chloroquoine, not hydroxychloroquine.

 

Hydroxychlorquine has a safer side-effects profile and a much shorter half life. Also not something to be played with, but not as dangerous as chloroquine.

 

Please be careful not to confuse people when discussing potentially fatal doses of drugs.

 

 

... there are thousands of people if not more taking it EVERYDAY for lupus or Rheumatoid Arthritis ... I am talking about hydroxychloroquine not chloroquine phosphate 

 

Edited by smithx, 19 April 2020 - 05:47 PM.

[bladedmind]

I reject the dangerous/irresponsible tag on my report on self-administration of chloroquine phosphate.  Several times in my life I’ve avoided dangerous drug interactions by doing my own research rather than trusting in the omniscience of M.D.s.    Now, my health system won't give therapeutics unless you agree to enter one of their funded trials.   Apparently, they'd rather kill me in order to get good data than taking a calculated risk on treatment.  

 

Earlier in this thread I announced my program, discussed risks and benefits, insisted on prudence and caution, and advised others to seek medical advice.   I am cautiously taking a weekly and now biweekly dose for prophylaxis.  Millions of people have done so for malaria - I did, decades ago.  

 

There is a mindset that insists that something must be either dangerous or safe.  I knew a brother and sister, each of whom died in middle age.  The brother didn’t think anything was dangerous and was killed in an easily avoidable accident.  The sister thought everything was dangerous and - details omitted - died as a result of runaway anxiety.   

 

Is it safe to drive a car?  To fly in a plane?  No?  Yes?  What’s required is a realistic estimate of risks and benefits, based on thorough investigation and a careful understanding of the detail and nuance of available theory and evidence.   Realistic:  not an underestimation, not an overestimation.

[bladedmind]

Maybe back to "Protecting from Coronavirus - Supplements & Therapies"?

[smithx]

I reject the dangerous/irresponsible tag on my report on self-administration of chloroquine phosphate.  
...
I am cautiously taking a weekly and now biweekly dose for prophylaxis. 

 

You're heading for trouble with a twice-weekly (biweekly) dose of 500mg of chloroquine.

• Chloroquine Phosphate 500mg = 300mg chloroquine base
• Chlloroquine is 90% absorbed
• The fatal concentration of chloroquine is about 30mg/kg
• Chloroquine has a half life that is extremely variable. Usually quoted as 40 days, but could be up to 127 days!
• (https://link.springe...1-4939-0597-3_2)
• Calculating the concentration of chloroquine in your blood with twice-weekly 500mg doses, it continues to rise and you don't reach steady state for over 200 days.
• (http://com.hemiola.com/half-life/)
• Long before you reach steady state, you will have enough chloroquine in your blood to kill you.

Please be careful and do the research needed when you are taking dangerous drugs.

 

Note: I looked back and although the post said "biweekly" it appears that he meant "semi-weekly" or once every 2 weeks. That's a much safer dose. I am leaving the analysis above so that others who see this can be aware of the potential dangers of this very long half-life and quite toxic drug.

 

 

 

Edited by smithx, 19 April 2020 - 09:51 PM.

[bladedmind]

 

Note: I looked back and although the post said "biweekly" it appears that he meant "semi-weekly" or once every 2 weeks. That's a much safer dose. I am leaving the analysis above so that others who see this can be aware of the potential dangers of this very long half-life and quite toxic drug.

 

Sorry that in my reply to smithx I said biweekly when I meant semi-weekly. 

 

Early in the thread I announced that I would be trying CQP once a week for prophylaxis, and promised to report after three weeks.  Next, I reported my experiences after one dose per week for three weeks and declared that I would be continuing it once every two weeks.  I also reported relatives who took a single dose.  

 

For which I was denounced as dangerous and irresponsible.  And once again when I argued that people should realistically assess risk, rather than underestimate or overestimate it.  Enough said.  

[lancebr]

 

It appears that Masterjohn is disagreeing and refuting this video:

 

https://chrismasterj...-d-and-covid-19

 

So who is to be believed?

Edited by lancebr, 20 April 2020 - 12:31 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Doh!  Curses!  First Dr Masterjohn shoots down the smoking paradox, & now the "friendly" ACE2 theory.  

 

Add in the resistant testicular infections and I'm at the point of despair!  Oh death, where is thy sting?  

[lancebr]

Doh!  Curses!  First Dr Masterjohn shoots down the smoking paradox, & now the "friendly" ACE2 theory.  

 

Add in the resistant testicular infections and I'm at the point of despair!  Oh death, where is thy sting?  

 

The question is who is right and who is wrong with these differing theories.

[Dorian Grey]

The question is who is right and who is wrong with these differing theories.

 

Well, when it comes to the smoking paradox, I can't help but side with the MD's in the field.  I doubt they would go looking for something good to say about smoking, so as it's being reported from several different countries I assume it must be fairly impressive for multiple sources to be talking about it.  

 

Dr Masterjohn is fairly compelling with his argument about ACE2, so I have to throw him a bone there.  The virus breeds in ACE2 receptors and it stands to logic more of them might be bad.  

 

I may have 3 gin & tonics tonight.  Ugg!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 20 April 2020 - 01:52 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

Dear God Help Us...  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-141844870.html

 

Trump Calls This Drug a 'Game Changer.' Doctors Aren't So Sure

 

"The drug (HCQ) has generated excitement because a laboratory study, with cultured cells, found that chloroquine could block the coronavirus from invading cells, which it must do to replicate and cause illness"

 

"A placebo-controlled trial financed by the National Institutes of Health began enrolling patients last week at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. That trial aims to enroll more than 500 people who have been hospitalized"

 

---------------------------------

 

So their trialing a drug that "could block the coronavirus from invading cells" on patients "who have been hospitalized".  Do they not realize the patients they are enrolling in this trial already have a massive viral load and the virus has already invaded the cells?  

 

Talk about closing the barn door after the horses are already out.   We live in interesting times!  

[Daniel Cooper]

It appears that Masterjohn is disagreeing and refuting this video:

 

https://chrismasterj...-d-and-covid-19

 

So who is to be believed?

 

I'd believe the one with evidence rather than speculation.

 

Either of them have any evidence?

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 20 April 2020 - 04:51 AM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Dear God Help Us...  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-141844870.html

 

Trump Calls This Drug a 'Game Changer.' Doctors Aren't So Sure

 

"The drug (HCQ) has generated excitement because a laboratory study, with cultured cells, found that chloroquine could block the coronavirus from invading cells, which it must do to replicate and cause illness"

 

"A placebo-controlled trial financed by the National Institutes of Health began enrolling patients last week at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. That trial aims to enroll more than 500 people who have been hospitalized"

 

---------------------------------

 

So their trialing a drug that "could block the coronavirus from invading cells" on patients "who have been hospitalized".  Do they not realize the patients they are enrolling in this trial already have a massive viral load and the virus has already invaded the cells?  

 

Talk about closing the barn door after the horses are already out.   We live in interesting times!  

 

The sad thing is I get this sense that many in the media are rooting against hydroxychloroquine because Trump supports it.

 

Your position on Trump or HCQ is irrelevant.  We should all hope that it works. while demanding some evidence.

 

People's lives are on the line.  To hope that something doesn't work because of some perceived political advantage is twisted.

 

 

[Kalliste]

 

One condition favoring viral replication is high oxidative

stress. More ROS is produced by G6PD-knockdown cells than

their normal counterparts, and cellular GSH content was lower

than that of control cells during viral infection. The low GSH

content in G6PD-knockdown cells has been associated with low

NADPH levels in these cells. Because these changes in redox

status of G6PD-knockdown cells are associated with increased

viral gene expression (table 1), these findings are consistent with

the postulate that increased oxidative stress in G6PD-

knockdown cells promotes viral gene expression.

Because increased susceptibility of G6PD-knockdown cells to

HCoV 229E infection correlates with ROS production, antioxi-

dant pretreatment should attenuate the phenomena. Indeed, the

enhanced susceptibility of these cells to viral infection can be

attenuated by pretreating G6PD-knockdown cells with lipoic

acid (figure 1D). The current finding that lipoic acid diminishes

ROS production in G6PD-knockdown cells supports the postu-

late that oxidative stress contributes to the enhanced susceptibil-

ity of these cells to HCoV 229E infection. Moreover, this finding

also suggests that antioxidant treatment may protect G6PD-

deficient subjects from viral infection

https://www.research..._229E_infection

 

Antioxidants could theoretically make it worse by inhibiting the host immune response to acute viral infections, but imho that would seem to be a good idea with Covid. 

 

Production of ROS can induce cell death and the release of virions representing possible proviral role of enhanced ROS production and altered redox balance. On the other hand, one of the important roles of oxidative stress is the triggering of an antiviral immune response. However, too strong immune responses lead to a cytokine storm and severe inflammation, which is very dangerous for tissue and may disturb lung function. From this point of view, antioxidant supplementation is expected to ameliorate the consequences of infection. Many studies showed the positive role of antioxidant therapy in infected cells and animals. At the same time, almost no relevant clinical data exist even for popular antioxidants, such as NAC, ascorbic acid, and vitamin E. This gap needs to be filled in by new research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6115776/

 

Good overview article that briefly covers many substances we discuss. NO can be had from UV-a exposure as a DIY. I have been knocking myself out under the death rays of my 300w Philips UV lamp recently to up my Vitamin D, at the right distance (~150cm to not burn myself) it's possible to sleep almost as if you are sedated by benzodiazepines with the effects of the UV/Infra.

 

4.6 Nitric oxide

Nitric oxide (NO) is a gas with diverse biological activities and is produced from arginine by NO synthases. NO is able to interact with superoxide, forming peroxynitrite, which, in turn, can mediate bactericidal or cytotoxic reactions.112 In addition, NO had played an important role in regulating airway function and in treating inflammatory airway diseases.113 Rossaint et al114 reported that the beneficial effects of NO inhalation could be observed in most patients with severe acute respiratory distress syndrome. NO was also found to inhibit the synthesis of viral protein and RNA.115 Moreover, Akerström et al116 had reported that organic NO donor, S‐nitroso‐N‐acetylpenicillamine, could significantly inhibit the replication cycle of SARS‐CoV in a concentration‐dependent manner. Therefore, the NO inhalation could be also chosen as an option for the treatment of severely COVID‐19 infected patients.

https://onlinelibrar...oKrZ0Qc8MX30e6g

 

 

Dear God Help Us...  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-141844870.html

 

Trump Calls This Drug a 'Game Changer.' Doctors Aren't So Sure

 

"The drug (HCQ) has generated excitement because a laboratory study, with cultured cells, found that chloroquine could block the coronavirus from invading cells, which it must do to replicate and cause illness"

 

"A placebo-controlled trial financed by the National Institutes of Health began enrolling patients last week at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tennessee. That trial aims to enroll more than 500 people who have been hospitalized"

 

---------------------------------

 

So their trialing a drug that "could block the coronavirus from invading cells" on patients "who have been hospitalized".  Do they not realize the patients they are enrolling in this trial already have a massive viral load and the virus has already invaded the cells?  

 

Talk about closing the barn door after the horses are already out.   We live in interesting times!  

 

Someone said he is a bull in a China shop but I remember that mythbusters tried that and the bull was pretty respectful not to touch anything.

Lucky for us places like Japan, China and South Korea are bound to try this. Japan in particular have a nice history of looking for cheap cures with open eyes so we should find out.

[smithx]

Note: I looked back and although the post said "biweekly" it appears that he meant "semi-weekly" or once every 2 weeks. That's a much safer dose. I am leaving the analysis above so that others who see this can be aware of the potential dangers of this very long half-life and quite toxic drug.

 

Apologies are in order. I was mistaken. Biweekly is every 2 weeks, semiweekly is twice a week. I had it backwards. Sorry about that!
 

[lancebr]

39 elderly Texans successfully complete hydroxychloroquine treatment for COVID-19

 

 

https://www.wfaa.com...ea-c4a5ffad3ffb

 

https://hotair.com/a...oxychloroquine/

 

 

This doctor started treating them as soon as possible...some of them didn't even have symptoms yet, but they did test positive before treament.

 

It doesn't mention if he used the antibiotic with it or zinc.  I wish these doctors would be more specific as to their treatment protocol.

Edited by lancebr, 20 April 2020 - 07:45 AM.

[Mr Spock]

Last couple of days I've become breathless, fatigued,without exertion. I've no cough or high temp (36.0C this am). But a couple of weeks ago I did feel very hot but passed it off for something else.

 

It all points to COVID 19. However, sometimes the breathlessness is less than other times. I'm 65 and have high BP, and was on Ramipril an ACE inhibitor,however, I stopped taking it around 3-4 weeks ago ( my BP has been fairly in range- ~132/80).

 

I'm taking LEF querictin, zinc sulfate+ zinc picolinate,Kyolic aged garlic,PQQ, and Vit C which I've taken every hour or so ~1g daytime for last few days.

 

Whats the forums view that as the virus has reached the lungs,which supps I should now take; also, this question on ACE meds,whether to take or not?

 

TIA

[sciack]

Last couple of days I've become breathless, fatigued,without exertion. I've no cough or high temp (36.0C this am). But a couple of weeks ago I did feel very hot but passed it off for something else.

 

It all points to COVID 19. However, sometimes the breathlessness is less than other times. I'm 65 and have high BP, and was on Ramipril an ACE inhibitor,however, I stopped taking it around 3-4 weeks ago ( my BP has been fairly in range- ~132/80).

 

I'm taking LEF querictin, zinc sulfate+ zinc picolinate,Kyolic aged garlic,PQQ, and Vit C which I've taken every hour or so ~1g daytime for last few days.

 

Whats the forums view that as the virus has reached the lungs,which supps I should now take; also, this question on ACE meds,whether to take or not?

 

TIA

did you lose your sense of smell and taste? Do you have pain in your lungs? there are many causes for breathlessness, better you see a doctor

[xEva]

Last couple of days I've become breathless, fatigued,without exertion. I've no cough or high temp (36.0C this am). But a couple of weeks ago I did feel very hot but passed it off for something else.

 

It all points to COVID 19. However, sometimes the breathlessness is less than other times. I'm 65 and have high BP, and was on Ramipril an ACE inhibitor,however, I stopped taking it around 3-4 weeks ago ( my BP has been fairly in range- ~132/80).

 

I'm taking LEF querictin, zinc sulfate+ zinc picolinate,Kyolic aged garlic,PQQ, and Vit C which I've taken every hour or so ~1g daytime for last few days.

 

Whats the forums view that as the virus has reached the lungs,which supps I should now take; also, this question on ACE meds,whether to take or not?

 

TIA

 

 

 

- blood thinners. For this I'd use what I happen to have, which is curcumin (better w/food that contains fats) and serrappeptase+Candex (Candex has enzymes that work in concert, take one of each together on empty stomach flushed down with a glass of water). It's ok to take serrappeptase alone (or w/Candex) with some supplements, just don't take it with a meal or after a meal, or less than an hour before meal.

 

- NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) to thin the mucus, To loosen the mucus I'd also use a handheld percussion massager applied to the rib cage

 

If breathing becomes hard, you should go to hospital asap, but try to avoid being intubated and insist on supplemental oxygen instead.

 

if breathing becomes hard and you don't want to go to the hospital (yet?) assume prone position -- though I'd prefer yoga child pose.

 

sorry, I have no opinion on ACE meds.

Edited by xEva, 20 April 2020 - 03:12 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Bill and Melinda Gates gives $19 million dollars to fund clinical trial of Ivermectin.

 

https://www.thailand...vid-19-underway

 

https://www.trialsit...eting-covid-19/

 

I wonder if they know something about Ivermectin that we do not know.

 

I noticed that Masterjohn did an article about Ivermection saying that you would have to have an extremely high dangerous dose to have the same effect of killing the virus like it did in the petri dish, but he fails to understand that some doctors believe that you can use a much lower safe dose of Ivermection, not to kill the virus, but to slow its replication down to give the body time to fight it and not have your immunity be overtaken by the virus.

 

And on the plus side it seems to be a much safer drug in lower doses, than chloroquine, when it comes to side effects.

 

This is quite significant, first of all because the application to COVID19 is well reasoned, as previously discussed.

 

MedinCell is the company receiving the funds. It sounds like they've developed this "BEPO technology" which extends dosing over long periods of time, resulting in greater efficiency and improving pharmacological stability. I guess the idea is to ensure that the virus is continuously choked until it dies off completely. Either that, or to create some trivial advantage supportive of patentability, and thus a "virtuous" cycle of extortionate pricing, stakeholder enrichment, and patient survival.

 

It's also important because it confronts the conspiracy theorists with some good evidence that Bill Gates isn't just trying to be Dr. Evil. (There are plenty of things in his history that I find grossly incompetent, if not necessarily nefarious, but the theories about sterilizing agents and tracking microchips in the injections are just plain nuts. Not because it's impossible, but because he could be much more evil with much less effort.)

Here's the PDF press release from the company itself:

 

https://www.medincel...-Covid19-EN.pdf

[lancebr]

I'd believe the one with evidence rather than speculation.

 

Either of them have any evidence?

 

Well they both present the same studies as evidence, but they have different interpretations.

 

Rhonda Patrick believes that you should supplement Vitamin D and that an increase in ACE2 is not a bad thing since

ACE2 protects the lungs.

 

Chris Masterjohn believes you should not supplement Vitamin D and that an increase in ACE2 is a bad thing since it is

the point of entry for the virus.

 

They both have PhDs...just in differing fields....Patrick (Biomedical Science) and Masterjohn (Nutritional Science)

 

So it is hard to know who to believe

Edited by lancebr, 20 April 2020 - 04:45 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Last couple of days I've become breathless, fatigued,without exertion. I've no cough or high temp (36.0C this am). But a couple of weeks ago I did feel very hot but passed it off for something else.

 

It all points to COVID 19. However, sometimes the breathlessness is less than other times. I'm 65 and have high BP, and was on Ramipril an ACE inhibitor,however, I stopped taking it around 3-4 weeks ago ( my BP has been fairly in range- ~132/80).

 

I'm taking LEF querictin, zinc sulfate+ zinc picolinate,Kyolic aged garlic,PQQ, and Vit C which I've taken every hour or so ~1g daytime for last few days.

 

Whats the forums view that as the virus has reached the lungs,which supps I should now take; also, this question on ACE meds,whether to take or not?

 

TIA

 

This sounds more like angina than COVID19. Never heard of shortness of breath without fever in COVID19, and it's hard to imagine how the virus could replicate that much without even a weak immune system taking notice and kicking off a fever.

 

Feeling very hot -- inappropriately -- is a heart attack symptom (and lots of other things, but it fits with the rest of your report).

 

Some cardiomyopathy cases have been treated with mesenchymal stem cells, but first off you need to see a cardiologist. An electrocardiogram and doppler echocardiogram are likely next steps.

 

I would be taking a baby aspirin every day in the meantime. I would actually pop one right now just to be on the safe side, unless  you're already doing so or taking something stronger, e.g. heparin.
 

If you have fish oil, you might take it as well, at the recommended dose.

 

Normally I would just suggest that you show up at the ER, but if you don't have COVID19, that could be a hazardous exercise in itself. I would chat with the cardiologist office ASAP and follow their instructions. Failing that, you can also go to an urgent care facility. They should be well prepared for cardiac issues, but aren't likely to be hosting COVID19 patients overnight.

 

If you do have fluid in your lungs, and this isn't a cardiac issue, that will be discovered rapidly by any competent physician.

 

If your left arm gets tingly, call for an ambulence.

 

Meanwhile, beets, onions (especially raw), and beans promote lower blood pressure and/or vasodilation.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 20 April 2020 - 04:20 PM.

[Mr Spock]

did you lose your sense of smell and taste? Do you have pain in your lungs? there are many causes for breathlessness, better you see a doctor

Hi,

 

I haven't lost sense of smell and taste. I've been getting sharp pains now and then,in the back mostly, occasionally on the chest ( it's not angina).

 

Spoke to doctor from the local Hub set up for the virus- she said she wasn't worried as my breathing wasn't too bad to warrant  going in.But to phone again if it got worse.

[Mr Spock]

- blood thinners. For this I'd use what I happen to have, which is curcumin (better w/food that contains fats) and serrappeptase+Candex (Candex has enzymes that work in concert, take one of each together on empty stomach flushed down with a glass of water). It's ok to take serrappeptase alone (or w/Candex) with some supplements, just don't take it with a meal or after a meal, or less than an hour before meal.

 

- NAC (N-acetyl cysteine) to thin the mucus, To loosen the mucus I'd also use a handheld percussion massager applied to the rib cage

 

If breathing becomes hard, you should go to hospital asap, but try to avoid being intubated and insist on supplemental oxygen instead.

 

if breathing becomes hard and you don't want to go to the hospital (yet?) assume prone position -- though I'd prefer yoga child pose.

 

sorry, I have no opinion on ACE meds.

Hi,

Thanks for those suggestions- can I ask, why you recommend blood thinners?

I have Nattokinase,which I never opened,would that do instead of serrap.?

 

I think lecithin was mentioned somewhere for lung support,any thoughts on that? 

[Mr Spock]

This sounds more like angina than COVID19. Never heard of shortness of breath without fever in COVID19, and it's hard to imagine how the virus could replicate that much without even a weak immune system taking notice and kicking off a fever.

 

Feeling very hot -- inappropriately -- is a heart attack symptom (and lots of other things, but it fits with the rest of your report).

 

Some cardiomyopathy cases have been treated with mesenchymal stem cells, but first off you need to see a cardiologist. An electrocardiogram and doppler echocardiogram are likely next steps.

 

I would be taking a baby aspirin every day in the meantime. I would actually pop one right now just to be on the safe side, unless  you're already doing so or taking something stronger, e.g. heparin.
 

If you have fish oil, you might take it as well, at the recommended dose.

 

Normally I would just suggest that you show up at the ER, but if you don't have COVID19, that could be a hazardous exercise in itself. I would chat with the cardiologist office ASAP and follow their instructions. Failing that, you can also go to an urgent care facility. They should be well prepared for cardiac issues, but aren't likely to be hosting COVID19 patients overnight.

 

If you do have fluid in your lungs, and this isn't a cardiac issue, that will be discovered rapidly by any competent physician.

 

If your left arm gets tingly, call for an ambulence.

 

Meanwhile, beets, onions (especially raw), and beans promote lower blood pressure and/or vasodilation.

 Hi,

 

Thanks for your answer,but I really don't think it's angina; I've had angina b4 I was placed on the BP medication,and the the symptoms were very different.

 

BTW, I'm in the Uk,and we only have ER,where you'd get the full works,or the GP offices where they don't keep much diagnostic equipment,but they're only talking on the phone to patients. Would a doc be able to diagnose fluid on the lungs without much equipment?

[lancebr]

This is quite significant, first of all because the application to COVID19 is well reasoned, as previously discussed.

 

MedinCell is the company receiving the funds. It sounds like they've developed this "BEPO technology" which extends dosing over long periods of time, resulting in greater efficiency and improving pharmacological stability. I guess the idea is to ensure that the virus is continuously choked until it dies off completely. Either that, or to create some trivial advantage supportive of patentability, and thus a "virtuous" cycle of extortionate pricing, stakeholder enrichment, and patient survival.

 

It's also important because it confronts the conspiracy theorists with some good evidence that Bill Gates isn't just trying to be Dr. Evil. (There are plenty of things in his history that I find grossly incompetent, if not necessarily nefarious, but the theories about sterilizing agents and tracking microchips in the injections are just plain nuts. Not because it's impossible, but because he could be much more evil with much less effort.)

Here's the PDF press release from the company itself:

 

https://www.medincel...-Covid19-EN.pdf

 

It is interesting that they are looking to formulate the Ivermectin to make it long-acting.

 

There was an article posted earlier in this thread where the doctors were giving Ivermectin to

patients who were already on mechanical ventilation and they saw improvement in the patients,

 

I think to many people are tied up with the assumption that it has to be an extremely high dose

to kill the virus, but look past the idea that some doctors have that by using smaller doses you

can slow down the virus replication giving the body more time to fight it. Maybe by making it

long-acting formulation it can slow it down even more on a longer basis giving the body even

more time to fight it off.

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 20 April 2020 - 05:36 PM.

[xEva]

Hi,

Thanks for those suggestions- can I ask, why you recommend blood thinners?

I have Nattokinase,which I never opened,would that do instead of serrap.?

 

I think lecithin was mentioned somewhere for lung support,any thoughts on that? 

 

 

there was a post up the thread with info that the main damage to the lungs is due to microcapillaries turning to goo because of the blood clots. Using bloodthinners for this was suggested in the posts on the same topic (not that long ago, 2-3 pages back at most) Sorry I don't have the link. 

 

I have both nattokinase and serrapeptase. I'm sure they are both good for their own purposes, but for me personally, as a blood thinner nothing works better than serrapeptase with Candex on empty stomach. I tried with nottokinase instead, the effect on me was not the quite as strong and immediate.

 

Have no opinion on lecithin, sorry.

[Daniel Cooper]

Well they both present the same studies as evidence, but they have different interpretations.

 

Rhonda Patrick believes that you should supplement Vitamin D and that an increase in ACE2 is not a bad thing since

ACE2 protects the lungs.

 

Chris Masterjohn believes you should not supplement Vitamin D and that an increase in ACE2 is a bad thing since it is

the point of entry for the virus.

 

They both have PhDs...just in differing fields....Patrick (Biomedical Science) and Masterjohn (Nutritional Science)

 

So it is hard to know who to believe

 

 

Sounds like speculation by both parities.  Evidence would look like "we measured vitamin D levels in N number of patients that tested positive for covid-19 and found a positive (or negative) correlation between vitamin D level and disease severity.  Anything else is speculation.

[lancebr]

Sounds like speculation by both parities.  Evidence would look like "we measured vitamin D levels in N number of patients that tested positive for covid-19 and found a positive (or negative) correlation between vitamin D level and disease severity.  Anything else is speculation.

 

It looks like they are going to study the relationship between Vitamin D and Covid:

 

https://www.mirror.c...urvive-21895872

 

It is interesting that they state that....the "Public Health of England will soon advise the public to start taking a daily dose of Vitamin D."
 

[FSL]

This page has some general advice that are relevant here.  The doctor likes ACE2 support but doesn't like zinc.

 

https://www.fox10pho...otection-advice

 

This page has some info about bradykinin and receptors.

 

https://www.preprint.../202004.0023/v1

 

[Dorian Grey]

Great links FSL.  Oh, and welcome to the forum!