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Protecting from Coronavirus - Supplements & Therapies

coronavirus flu disease epidemics viruses immunity covid-19

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#2311 Dorian Grey

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 05:07 AM

Is this from a valid, or known source? It has conclusions that are the opposite of what has been concluded by the majority of sources that are being discussed here. It appears to be a compiled google scholar search.

 

Don't have a valid source for you, but generally speaking, anything that suppresses gastric acid is going to predispose GI infections.  

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7295271/

 

My X-wife had a heart valve replaced, & her doc put her on a PPI.  She'd never had GERD or reflux, but her doc said it's a common problem for cardiac patients experiencing heartburn to mistake it for a cardiac issue, and this often causes needless trips to the ER, so he just puts everyone on a PPI.  My X wound up getting a serious case of food poisoning / GI infection twice in 3 years once on the PPI.  Had to go to the ER for IV fluids once.  

 

Gastric acid pretty effective at killing food borne pathogens.  Take away the acid, & you wind up with bacterial (and perhaps viral) issues in the bowels.  I imagine if you get coronavirus on your hands, or perhaps get some cold food contaminated from a restaurant worker, a gut infection would be possible.  

 

Plenty of other issues associated with long term PPI use.  

 

https://www.mayoclin...0841-8/fulltext

 

"recent studies regarding the long-term use of PPI medications have noted potential adverse effects, including risk of fractures, pneumonia, Clostridium difficile diarrhea, hypomagnesemia, vitamin B12 deficiency, chronic kidney disease, and dementia."

 

If you've got to be on a PPI for barrett's or something similar, not much you can do, but I would avoid PPIs long term if I could.


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#2312 bladedmind

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 04:33 PM

I am aware of the Proton Pump issue, the opposite conclusions I am referring is in this sentence.

 

"while other medications did not alter outcomes of COVID-19 infections such as ACE inhibitors, angiotensin II receptor blocker (ARB), and statin".

 

They use a comprehensive source of published studies to search for ones on the relation of PPIs to Covid-19 severe outcome or mortality.   The meta-analysis pools individuals from the several studies together to gain more power.  They do find such associations.

 

At the beginning of their paper they mention that

 

Several medications have been demonstrated to be associated with a reduction in poor outcomes from COVID-19 such as anticoagulant and metformin, while other medications did not alter outcomes of COVID-19 infections such as ACE inhibitors, angiotensin II receptor blocker (ARB), and statin [1, 2, 3].

 

The numbers refer to citations to other meta-analyses at the end of the paper. 

 

#1.  Metformin use is associated with reduced mortality rate from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection.. 

#2.  The use of renin angiotensin system inhibitor on mortality in patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): a systematic review and meta-analysis.

#3.  Statin therapy did not improve the in-hospital outcome of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection.

 

I think that people are first most interested in whether a common daily medication does not make covid-19 worse, and next are happy if it tends to make it better, 

 

They sloppily misreport the content of #2. 

 

Administration of a renin angiotensin system (RAS) inhibitor, was not associated with increased mortality or severity of COVID-19 in patients with hypertension. Specifically, ARB and not ACEI use, was associated with lower mortality.

As for statins, meta-analysis #3 says they don’t make Covid-19 worse,  Other kinds of studies have suggested that statins or a particular statin can make it better.   Mixed findings aren't unusual, one needs to look at all relevant studies and make a global judgment. 


Edited by bladedmind, 03 January 2021 - 04:34 PM.

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#2313 joesixpack

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Posted 03 January 2021 - 06:42 PM

They use a comprehensive source of published studies to search for ones on the relation of PPIs to Covid-19 severe outcome or mortality.   The meta-analysis pools individuals from the several studies together to gain more power.  They do find such associations.

 

At the beginning of their paper they mention that

 

 

The numbers refer to citations to other meta-analyses at the end of the paper. 

 

#1.  Metformin use is associated with reduced mortality rate from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection.. 

#2.  The use of renin angiotensin system inhibitor on mortality in patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): a systematic review and meta-analysis.

#3.  Statin therapy did not improve the in-hospital outcome of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection.

 

I think that people are first most interested in whether a common daily medication does not make covid-19 worse, and next are happy if it tends to make it better, 

 

They sloppily misreport the content of #2. 

 

As for statins, meta-analysis #3 says they don’t make Covid-19 worse,  Other kinds of studies have suggested that statins or a particular statin can make it better.   Mixed findings aren't unusual, one needs to look at all relevant studies and make a global judgment. 

Thanks to you and Dorian for your explanations.



#2314 Dorian Grey

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 03:52 AM

Is ivermectin about to break out?  

 

https://www.dailymai...tudy-finds.html

 

Cheap hair lice drug may cut the risk of hospitalized Covid patients dying by up to 80%, study finds

 

And the Times of London no less.  https://www.thetimes...-toll-zb27lx8wt

 

Behind a paywall, but the title says it all: Ivermectin: Tests show cheap drug may reduce Covid-19 death toll

 

TrialSite News does a fantastic takedown of the boffins that have been dragging their feet:

 

 

It will be interesting to see where Fauci & the WHO go with this.  Will IVM become the new HCQ?  Or will the dawn of a new year finally bring our first outpatient therapeutic?  Will we need to "study" this for another 6 months?  What should we call the new Gates/Wellcome WHO ivermectin trial?  The Phoenix Trial?  

 

With the vaccine rollouts in chaos, hospitals overwhelmed, new mutant strains popping up and major new outbreaks occurring around the world, someone better do something fast, or it's goodnight all.  

 

Actually treating patients before they go critical?  BRILLIANT!  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 05 January 2021 - 04:07 AM.

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#2315 Gal220

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 04:10 AM

Is ivermectin about to break out?  

 

I felt the same way when Marik was pushing it in October, who knows.  Absolutely criminal, Zalenko was way ahead us on the mass murder thing.  How is he wrong, especially with IVM up to 17 peer reviewed trials now?

 

Early prevention and reducing viral load should be at the forefront of everyones thoughts, Marik shows Ivermectin(Oct 27) reduces viral load by ~5000 fold at 48 hours


Edited by Gal220, 05 January 2021 - 04:22 AM.

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#2316 albedo

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 07:33 AM

Any insight on this (ASD-Cov)?

http://www.asdera.co...-nutrition.html

Looks like a nutriceutical acting on reducing both comorbidity and virus replication.


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#2317 albedo

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 09:41 AM

Anecdotally, one of my really best friend (male, 66) and active MD had a quite severe form of C-19 and got hospitalized last November. There were different hospitals for receiving different treatments (incl monoclonal antibodies) and choice was the one which opted for what was considered kind of standard, of course matching health status etc.. : hydrocortisone, azythromycin, heparin and positive pressure oxygen. Now recovering well. OTOS, I lost to C-19 another great friend and MD, RIP.



#2318 albedo

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 05:21 PM

The FDA-approved drug Ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro

https://www.scienced...166354220302011



#2319 bladedmind

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Posted 05 January 2021 - 05:38 PM

I never thought I’d see the day when the Daily Mail is consistently more accurate than The New York Times.  Scandalous and depressing.

 

Cheap hair lice drug may cut the risk of hospitalized Covid patients dying by up to 80%, study finds

 

China lab leak is the 'most credible' source of the coronavirus outbreak, says top US government official, amid bombshell claims Wuhan scientist has turned whistleblower


Edited by bladedmind, 05 January 2021 - 05:41 PM.

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#2320 pone11

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Posted 06 January 2021 - 05:51 AM

The FDA-approved drug Ivermectin inhibits the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in vitro

https://www.scienced...166354220302011

 

Is there any reason that a separate thread has not been created here to review Ivermectin for Covid?   The best summary of the data is here:

http://ivmmeta.com.

 

That data was largely confirmed by a British study that was just released.   So we now have a formal meta data review published that backs up ivmmeta.

 

There are now 28+ studies on Ivermectin and Covid - mostly done outside the US - and 100% of those have shown dramatically positive effects.   No matter how you do the statistics, the odds of this many studies showing positive outcomes when the agent is not effective are millions to one against.   IVMMeta calculates the odds at over 200 million to one, but they do not show their calculation for that.   The NIH in the US is totally asleep on this and has not updated its recommendation since Summer, even though most of those 28 studies started to come out around September 2020.   It is really beyond discouraging that we have a national crisis and the NIH is so deeply captured by Big Pharma that it cannot be bothered to accelerate study of a cheap readily available drug that has been given in billions of doses already for decades.   Unlike Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin is very well tolerated and has few side effects at doses even 10 times over the typical therapeutic dose.


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#2321 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 06 January 2021 - 02:44 PM

There's no reason not to create a separate Ivermectin thread aside from the fact that we've now accumulated so much info in this one.  

 

Tell you what - I should be able to create an Ivermectin specific thread and then move Ivermectin related posts from this thread into that one.  The only thing is it might get a little messy with all of the postings on that topic. Discuss if that's what you want to do and if that seems to be the consensus I'll see how big the effort would be.

 

OTOH, if https://ivmmeta.com/ is comprehensive enough that moving posts isn't necessary we can just start the new thread and reference that site as a source and continue the discussion.


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 06 January 2021 - 02:46 PM.

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#2322 pone11

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 12:02 AM

OTOH, if https://ivmmeta.com/ is comprehensive enough that moving posts isn't necessary we can just start the new thread and reference that site as a source and continue the discussion.

 

Yes, but the thread opener should be you so the crowd knows the moderators approved it


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#2323 Gal220

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 01:32 AM

Yes, but the thread opener should be you so the crowd knows the moderators approved it

 

I dont mind it, but what more is there to say other than why the NIH/FDA arent approving it?  Im reading 77,000 U.S. deaths in December, how many were preventable?  Why arent we finding out since Its a small dose of an approved drug?

 

No doubt the NIH/FDA thinks were all crazy fools for taking quecetin, vitamin D, C, zinc, and melatonin as well. Wheres the proof?!


Edited by Gal220, 07 January 2021 - 01:34 AM.

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#2324 Dorian Grey

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 02:17 AM

I recall a previous thread title on HCQ had to be modified to "(hydroxy) chloroquine", presumably to keep LongeCity from being exiled into oblivion by the internet search engine censors.  

 

Though discussions on ivermectin have enjoyed relatively free rein thus far, it's certainly possible IVM could soon become the new forbidden fruit.  I've been watching for things to heat up, what with the global surges, more contagious variants & vaccine SNAFU's going on.  New clamp-downs on free speech may be deemed necessary.  

 

Discussions on dosing for veterinary grade paste or importation of prescription meds from overseas pharmacies could soon become a lightning rod for the internet police.  Title headings tend to get noticed.  Might be wise to keep our heads down?  


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#2325 gamesguru

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 01:31 PM

Doubtful the delay is anything more than the bureaucratic gears grinding along at their usual snail's pace. I would like as much as anyone to see IVM approved and distributed in a coordinated systematic immediate effort, but with humans that's very unlikely.

 

But honestly what is it with conspiracy members here, who so ardently ascribe sinister motives to everyday outcomes? Not every abject failure is some grand conspiracy against your worldview, sometimes individuals and leaders are just dumb and it shows. Stupidity has within it degrees of beauty and complexity, it's really a common thing anywhere you look.. learn to appreciate?

 

So yeah, no secret spy at the NSA or Google is reading our titles and lowering our Alexa rank just because we have IVM in a title.. they do that already with machine learning algorithms because of the preponderance of preposterous claims here, and the difficulty in finding valid information. They may have appeared to "suppress" HCQ, but that was politicized bunk from the start and anyone with half a frontal lobe here knew there was no 200 million to 1 odds or anything near that on it, and anyone claiming so was probably lacking credibility and a simple believer in snake oil conspiracies


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#2326 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 02:38 PM

Well, I don't know about Google or the NSA but it's certainly no secret that YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter were censoring HCQ oriented content as not meeting their standards for accuracy.  These platforms openly stated as much.

 

I don't know if it's sinister. I'm prepared to assign noble motives unless I'm shown otherwise. But motives aren't everything. I'm sure a lot of the people that supported those efforts thought they were doing the right thing in protecting people from disinformation. But that's a very paternalistic point of view. And it kills open and free discussion and I think it is counterproductive in the long run. For one thing, I think censoring that content only fed those prone to see conspiracies.  Why don't they want us to see this information?

 

I also don't like the idea of these social media platforms curating content unless they are going to assume some legal responsibility for that content either.

 

 


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#2327 Dorian Grey

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 04:04 PM

Doubtful the delay is anything more than the bureaucratic gears grinding along at their usual snail's pace. I would like as much as anyone to see IVM approved and distributed in a coordinated systematic immediate effort, but with humans that's very unlikely.

 

But honestly what is it with conspiracy members here, who so ardently ascribe sinister motives to everyday outcomes? Not every abject failure is some grand conspiracy against your worldview, sometimes individuals and leaders are just dumb and it shows. Stupidity has within it degrees of beauty and complexity, it's really a common thing anywhere you look.. learn to appreciate?

 

So yeah, no secret spy at the NSA or Google is reading our titles and lowering our Alexa rank just because we have IVM in a title.. they do that already with machine learning algorithms because of the preponderance of preposterous claims here, and the difficulty in finding valid information. They may have appeared to "suppress" HCQ, but that was politicized bunk from the start and anyone with half a frontal lobe here knew there was no 200 million to 1 odds or anything near that on it, and anyone claiming so was probably lacking credibility and a simple believer in snake oil conspiracies

 

Don't know if HCQ was a total failure.  Let's have a look at the current status of the studies shall we?

 

https://hcqmeta.com/

 

Appears to me the worst that can be said about it is that it does not appear to reliably prevent infection (PEP / PrEP), but it may still be our best immune modulator for early/outpatient intervention.  Still looks a lot better than remdesivir, which the WHO largest RCT to date indicates it provides next to no benefit.  

 

HCQ was our only plausible outpatient therapeutic for many months, & Trump procured millions of doses for distribution only to get shot down by Fauci & his big pharma agenda.  And what has come of all the other outpatient therapeutics since HCQ?  

 

favipiravir?      Fauci: NO!

ivermectin?     Fauci: NO!

fluvoxamine?  Fauci: NO!

Budesonide?  Fauci: NO!  

famotidine?    Fauci: NO!

melatonin?     Fauci: NO!

Lactoferrin?    Fauci: NO!

vitamin D?      Fauci: NO!

Vitamin-C?     Fauci: NO!  

Zinc?              Fauci: NO!

Aspirin?          Fauci: NO! 

 
Dr NO has steadfastly stood his ground, there will be no treatment done outside of the hospital setting; so just isolate at home & take Tylenol till you start turning blue.  Then call 911, & we'll give you some remdesivir as you circle the drain.  Not my idea of a "Finest Hour" for 21st Century medicine, but then what do I know, I'm not even a doctor.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 07 January 2021 - 04:11 PM.

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#2328 Gal220

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Posted 07 January 2021 - 04:23 PM

Doubtful the delay is anything more than the bureaucratic gears grinding along at their usual snail's pace. I would like as much as anyone to see IVM approved and distributed in a coordinated systematic immediate effort, but with humans that's very unlikely.

 

But honestly what is it with conspiracy members here, who so ardently ascribe sinister motives to everyday outcomes? Not every abject failure is some grand conspiracy against your worldview, sometimes individuals and leaders are just dumb and it shows. Stupidity has within it degrees of beauty and complexity, it's really a common thing anywhere you look.. learn to appreciate?

 

Yes, lets appreciate the 77,000 deaths in December, brilliant... 

 

Maybe they are in incompetent, winey nerds scared of being wrong, want everyone vaccinated instead, money grubbers like Fauci, or could be they just dont care.  Whatever the case, Peru and others have already beta tested it for us, its an approved drug, sensible people with a shred of intellect would have approved it a long time ago. 

 

Shame on us for not firing the lot of them already.


Edited by Gal220, 07 January 2021 - 04:24 PM.

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#2329 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 02:39 AM

Retired neurosurgeon & Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson takes MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell's oleandrin.  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-181131782.html

 

His COVID symptoms disappeared within hours.  

 I looked at this. Not available anywhere. Too dangerous?



#2330 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 02:42 AM

Guys if covid causes blood clots, would taking blood pressure medication worsen that because it decreases blood flow therfore more likely to stagnant? When I search "Blood pressure medication covid" it says they improve survivalbility

 

What I know is that Losartan and it's analogues are ACE 2 inhibitors.The virus uses ACE2 receptors in cells to bind and invade. So these drugs should inhibit the virus.


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#2331 bladedmind

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 03:00 AM

One can be completely gullible about the claims and motives of others, and one can be completely suspicious about the claims and motives of others.   Tendency to the latter fault is what the mistaken term conspiracy theory is meant to identify; probably better described as paranoia.   There is an opposite fault without a widely accepted label, call it conformism:  gullible acceptance of arguments from authority and arguments ad populum (it is true if many people of quality like me believe it), both fallacies. 

 

In a neighboring thread, someone denounced mention of the lab-leak hypothesis of coronavirus origin as conspiracy theory, and shameful for Longecity to discuss, even though the posts contained abundant links to argument- and evidence-based references.  Some alternative hypotheses:  zoonotic origin, reckless lab leak, deliberate Chinese attack, planted by U.S. to discredit China.  Only the last two involve conspiracies (secret collective action), but what matters is that one of these exclusive theories is most likely true, and the remainder less likely true.  Whether or not a conspiracy is involved is irrelevant to the determination. 

 

I’m  not a coronavirus denier, not an anti-vaxxer, not a lockdown defier; but don’t consider the opposite positions absolute truth that people should be forbidden to question.  I do with good reason reject RCT fundamentalism and I support in emergency conditions early outpatient treatments based on good rather than nearly perfect evidence. 

 

Claim A.   We have seen not just contestation but media demonization of hydroxychloroquine.  Zelenko’s and Raoult’s early science was shoddy, but since then a signal of efficacy has sufficiently emerged (and safety in proper dosage) with comedications for early outpatient treatment (I’d take Ivermectin rather than HCQ+).    American Remdesivir is celebrated as science!, even though its effect is almost nil and it’s dismissed by the WHO.  Ivermectin was first eclipsed and next demonized.  In earlier posts here I contrasted the scarce, nasty, and ignorant Ivermcetin coverage of The New York Times to the thorough and cautiously positive worldwide coverage by the small industry newsletter, Trial Site News.  The Covid-19 Early Treatment Fund’s evidence-based advocacy of fluvoxamine was censored from Facebook and Medium.  The media-mob defamation of Dr. Kory’s Senate testimony about early treatment and Ivermectin was ghastly. 

 

Now, what if I described to you an international organization of big tech and news oligopolies that openly proclaims the goal of shaping and censoring news about political elections and public-health debates.  The organization globally collaborates to suppress information that it says is false.  A website, a headquarters address, or any kind of contact information is not available for this organization.  It engages in prior censorship worldwide of such information in secret, with no transparency about its process, no possibility of appeal by aggrieved parties (who may not even know they have been harmed by secret action), and no public accountability for its actions.      

 

Claim B.  I present to you the Trusted News Initiative.

 

BBC 3/27/2020

 

 

The Trusted News Initiative (TNI) was set up last year to protect audiences and users from disinformation, particularly around moments of jeopardy, such as elections,,,,

 

Now the partnership will extend its efforts to identifying false and potentially harmful Coronavirus information by putting in place a shared alert system.

Launching today, partners will be able to alert each other to disinformation about Coronavirus so that content can be reviewed promptly by platforms, whilst publishers ensure they don’t unwittingly republish disinformation….

 

Last summer the BBC convened a Trusted News Summit, bringing together senior figures from major global technology firms and publishing.

The summit agreed to work collectively, where appropriate, to agree collaborative actions on various initiatives. Initiatives include:

  • Early Warning System: creating a system so organisations can alert each other rapidly when they discover disinformation which threatens human life or disrupts democracy during elections. The emphasis will be on moving quickly and collectively to undermine disinformation before it can take hold…

 

 

BBC 12/10/2020

 

 

TNI partners will alert each other to disinformation which poses an immediate threat to life so content can be reviewed promptly by platforms, whilst publishers ensure they don’t unwittingly republish dangerous falsehoods….

 

The partners currently within the TNI are: AP, AFP; BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Facebook, Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, Microsoft , Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, The Washington Post.

 

Claim A.  There appears to be a patterned suppression of debate about Covid-19 early therapeutics.  Claim B. Some of the most powerful multinational corporations in the world openly declare that they are privately coordinating so as to silence disfavored views and shape the debate about public health responses to the novel coronavirus.  Does A have anything to do with B?

 

Discussion.  Consider four scenarios:  1.  Participants from the giant for-profit companies in the TNI are motivated only by the public good, and their views of what is in the public good are always correct.  2.  Some participants can be motivated only by the public good, but their views of what is in the public good can be erroneous and hence should open to challenge.  3.   Some participants are motivated only by their private interests and hence their views should be open to challenge.   4.  Both 2 and 3.  The TNI's disinformation suppression would work for the public good only in scenario 1. 

 

Power corrupts.  Is it paranoid to worry about a powerful, private, coordinated, and unaccountable global censorship regime?    TNI says they are acting to prevent harm.  J.S. Mill’s On Liberty argued that a necessary but not sufficient reason for the state to coercively interfere with personal liberty is to prevent harm to others.  What counts as harm is a complicated issue, but unless it is mostly confined to tangible harm, liberty will be endangered.  It should be the kind of harm that picks my pocket or breaks my leg, as Jefferson said when he was defending religious liberty. 

 

There is a dangerously growing discourse in the U.S., found most often among the recently college-educated who now populate high tech and media multinational corporations, that mere ideas can do violence, even that silence is violence.  In this extreme stretching of the concept of harm, an expression, an unexpressed idea, or even refusal to publicly endorse someone else’s views can “threaten human life.”  Stretching of the concept provides the woke class a (mistaken) moral justification for responding with coercion or even personal violence against the purveyors of whatever they assert to be dangerous disinformation.  This is the equivalent of a privileged religion seeking to abolish competing religions in order to save people from the great evil of eternal damnation.  If multinational high-tech and media companies coordinating on information suppression in TNI surrender to their newest employees, that opens the road to a privatized global 1984.  

                                                                                      

https://covexit.com/coordinated-repression-of-early-treatment-of-c-19-explained/

https://covexit.com/facebook-zuckerberg-fact-checkers-sued-for-deliberate-use-of-suppression-censorship-and-known-lies/

https://covexit.com/brown-university-school-of-public-health-dean-misinforms-the-world-in-ny-times-opinion/  Compare to:

 

This is what happens when science is muzzled. 

Is this CNN video clip disinterested science reporting, or is it propaganda?  Who decides?
 


Edited by bladedmind, 08 January 2021 - 03:57 AM.

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#2332 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 03:15 AM

"Mass murderers".

 

This seems like an extreme position taken by Zelenko but as time goes on, I suspect more people will come to this conclusion.

 

We now have RCT trials (and multiple retrospective studies) proving vitamin D3, Ivermectin, and early treatment with HCQ+antibiotic+zinc are very beneficial in treating COVID-19 patients.

 

Other studies show benefits with other essential nutrients, micronutrients, and methods to control inflammatory response.

 

This data (treatments that work) should be all over the news. Health bureaucrats should be promoting further study and treatment with these protocols in order to save lives.

 

They are not. There is a complete blackout in the US national news outlets. Why?

 

Instead of reporting the good news, just the opposite is happening. Remember when the Henry Ford Clinic published positive news about HCQ treatment? Instead of this news being heralded and used as a foundation to study further, the doctors at the clinic were harassed into silence. Highly disturbing. Who is doing this? What is their motive?

 

Some people say it has to do with money. The (forced) vaccines will be a huge windfall for some of the world's largest corporations and richest people. The current treatments that have been proven to work will not bring in much profit. The money theory seems as good as any as to why so many health bureaucrats refuse any discussion of treatments.

I agree with you. Right now, in California, and Arizona, they are running out of hospital beds. Would it it not make sense to try each and every one of these outpatient treatments on everyone testing positive to avoid hospitalizations? Apparently in Az, you can only get the one approved drug remdesivir, when you are admitted to the hospital. You can't get anything prescribed before that. Not sure how the "clinical trials".

 

The politicization of these treatments is ridiculous and may some day be considered criminal. 


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#2333 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 03:22 AM

I remember months back when first hearing about that test tube study of Ivermectin killing the virus

and the researchers/doctors online were saying that it wouldn't work because you would need to

take massive amounts of it which would be dangerous,

 

Now we see that just normal dosages, like used for scabies, can be effective against the virus.

 

Good thing I didn't listen to them "specialists" back then and bought up my Ivermectin paste and pills.

 

Also got my doxycycline too. Hoptfully won't have to use any of it.

So if I have Scabies, I can get a prescription?


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#2334 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 03:37 AM

P.S.  "Science" is not a set of decided truths.  Science is the relentless questioning of claims to truth.

Yes, science once said the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth. Some people still believe it. So follow the science does not do it for me.


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#2335 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 03:41 AM

Yes, heaven forbid someone take an FDA approved medicine with a long history of use and solid data for a week or two.  Outrageous...

 

If you have been following Masterjohn's articles on CoVid, you quickly find out he is overtly cautious about making any claims.

 

Its just the socialist paradigm... they know how to think and spend your money better than you, period.

 

Medcram addressed this a while back in relation to vitamin D. Start in at about 6:30 for the the meat of it.

 

 

Well he helped me with his dosing and methylation advice regarding NR dosing. So, regardless of his credentials, which mean nothing, he seems to know what he is talking about.


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#2336 bladedmind

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 04:05 AM

What I know is that Losartan and it's analogues are ACE 2 inhibitors.The virus uses ACE2 receptors in cells to bind and invade. So these drugs should inhibit the virus.

 

I take Losartan and was greatly worried in the first weeks of the pandemic about one published claim that it would make Covid-19 worse.  Theory and evidence accumulated to the point of reasonably believing that it would do no harm, and now it’s fair to say that Losartan and other ARBs tend to benefit.

The use of renin angiotensin system inhibitor on mortality in patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): a systematic review and meta-analysis.
 

Background and Aims

To investigate the association between use of angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitor (ACEI)/angiotensin-receptor blocker (ARB) and outcomes of hypertensive COVID-19 patients, a systematic review and meta-analysis were performed….

 

Conclusion
Administration of a renin angiotensin system (RAS) inhibitor, was not associated with increased mortality or severity of COVID-19 in patients with hypertension. Specifically, ARB and not ACEI use, was associated with lower mortality.

 



 


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#2337 joesixpack

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 04:11 AM

https://www.medrxiv....1.16.20232397v1

RCT shows no significant effect of 200 000iu Vitamin D upon hospitalization on outcomes

They gave a massive dose to already compromised, hospitalized patients. I am not surprised that they died anyway.

 

How about a study where people took a normal number 5,000 iu before getting the virus?


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#2338 bladedmind

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 04:35 AM

P.S. In my post on Trusted News Initiative above, in my discussion of harm, I should have emphasized harm to others.  J.S. Mill argued and most old-fashioned liberals agree that it is morally wrong to coercively prevent a competent adult from harming herself - that is called paternalism and is condemned in our societies.  Harm to others can be a reason for coercively interfering with someone's liberty, but not always (would you want heartbreak courts, for example). 

 

In the reigning liberal tradition, TNI would not be justified to manipulate and deceive in order to prevent people from harming themselves.  TNI might try to argue that they can manipulate and deceive in order to prevent one person from harming another with misinformation, but that wouldn't go through, because there is an effective alternative that better respects persons:  public contestation of ideas. 


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#2339 Dorian Grey

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 05:45 AM

A lot of great posts today.  Reminds me of one of my favorite sayings: Absence of proof is not proof of absence!  I recall back in the 60s (yep, I'm old!) when they first started noticing smokers seemed to be coming down with lung cancer way more often than non-smokers.  When doctors tried to sound the alarm, the tobacco companies battle cry became NO PROOF!  To this day (half a century later), no "scientific proof" (blinded, placebo controlled studies in humans) exists proving an association between smoking and lung cancer in humans.  

 

Another concept we might ponder is: Evidenced Based Medicine, and how Big Pharma has morphed this concept into Proof Based Medicine.  It used to be, when a doctor discovered something...  "Hey, when I give kids with ADHD ritalin (a stimulant), it somehow seems to paradoxically calm them down"...  Other doctors would try this with their patients and a body of evidence would emerge, get published in journals, and the off label use would become widespread; without any new safety or efficacy trials being done.  Off label prescribing of drugs is nothing new.  

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Off-label_use

 

"Up to one-fifth of all drugs are prescribed off-label and amongst psychiatric drugs, off-label use rises to 31%". 

 

Off label prescribing of old, cheap generics has been the bane of Big Pharma for many years.  With new (profitable!) drugs coming online all the time, they've been chipping away at the accepted practice of off label prescribing of existing drugs, by adopting the old tobacco lobby's battle cry of NO PROOF! 

 

Bringing a new billion dollar drug to market predisposes a high level of BIAS for the drug trial to succeed, as the clinical trials are sponsored and done by the drug companies themselves.  Over the years, the trial process has evolved into a very complex, expensive and arduous "scientific process" of double blind, multi-center, placebo controlled trials, that often take years to complete. This simply to eliminate the inherent bias of drug companies running their own trials for their new billion dollar babies.  An unfortunate result of this evolution, is that medicine is not longer "evidence based", but "proof based".  Big Pharma has infiltrated the FDA, NIH & CDC, which are now staffed largely by former drug company executives.  New adventures in off label prescribing have been demonized, and drugs previously accepted as safe, are being flagged as dangerous, in order to make way for new pharmaceutical potions.  

 

Now, here we are in the heat of a global pandemic, with doctors who actually treat patients in the field, desperately trying currently available medicines (already proven safe) with theoretical evidence for benefit.  While there have been dead-ends, there have also been a few EUREKA moments.  Don't know this for fact, but I read dexamethasone was actually discovered to be beneficial during the Recovery Trial, not because it was part of the original trial, but because doctors snuck it in as part of the "plus standard of care" protocol in some of their patients.  

 

Other cheap generics have had a much tougher time.  Multi-million dollar trials designed to fail before they even began.  Delayed onset of therapy, improper dosing, and exaggeration of already known, but previously accepted as benign side effects.  It boggles the mind to think there are actually people walking around, knowing they've participated in "research sabotage" during a pandemic.  Will these emperors ever be exposed for their naked deceptions?   Time will tell!  

 

Are pondering these things pointless, time wasting & off topic?  Do let me know!  


Edited by Dorian Grey, 08 January 2021 - 06:21 AM.

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#2340 Boopathon

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 12:05 PM

Now, here we are in the heat of a global pandemic, with doctors who actually treat patients in the field, desperately trying currently available medicines (already proven safe) with theoretical evidence for benefit.  While there have been dead-ends, there have also been a few EUREKA moments.  Don't know this for fact, but I read dexamethasone was actually discovered to be beneficial during the Recovery Trial, not because it was part of the original trial, but because doctors snuck it in as part of the "plus standard of care" protocol in some of their patients. 

 

Just wanted to comment on this bit about the RECOVERY Trial as I was involved in supporting this study at one of the hospitals it ran at.

 

Its not correct that dexamethasone wasn't part of the original trial - it was always part of the trial right from the start.  In fact one of the biggest issues at our hospital and quite a few others was that many clinicians didn't think dexamethasone should have been in there.  Many assumed it wouldn't be beneficial and potentially harmful and many hospitals involved in the trial opted out of the dexamethasone arm for those reasons.   Lots of embarassed faces when it turned out this was the big result of the trial. 

 

You can see all the original documentation for the first version of the study on the trial website under the 'for site staff' section, then 'site set up', then 'regulatory documentation', then '1 HRA and REC Approved document set' for the original application.  I can't post a link as I've only just created an account here but its easy to find on their website.


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