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Testosterone level of 305

testosterone low t

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#61 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:51 AM

I think I read that with Klinefelter Syndrome your LH and FSH should be high while your testosterone remains low.

 

 

 

 



#62 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 03:09 AM

I think I read that with Klinefelter Syndrome your LH and FSH should be high while your testosterone remains low.


You’re right. Idiopathic or Kallman fits better (normal FSH LH). Plus these are inherited (and while this is something I can never discuss with him, I suspect my father was in the same boat).

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#63 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:53 PM

Do you know what your cholesterol numbers are?  Are they unusually low?

 

 

 



#64 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:24 PM

Do you know what your cholesterol numbers are? Are they unusually low?


Low-ish. Total 151
HDl 56
LDL 74

No problem with DHEA levels so no issues in the steroid chain. DHEA-S is 531mcg/dl

#65 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:28 PM

Hmm, 129 total on the next blood test I had.

#66 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:36 PM

I looked up hypolipidemia, doesn’t describe my symptoms. Even with zero sunlight, dark skin and zero supplementation, my d3 levels were 35 or so, low but not horrendous. Then 10k/iu daily pushed me to 114 quickly. Also, I am hyper responsive to supplements, even 1 tablet of 400iu vitamin E I will feel almost immediately.

#67 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:47 PM

Adjusted by race (Asian) my levels of cholesterol look fine.

#68 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:54 PM

The reason I ask is that all your sex hormones are ultimately made out of cholesterol.  129 is quite low.  Good (excellent in fact) for heart health, but that might be low enough that your body is having trouble finding enough raw material to make androgens.  In fact, statin therapy, which will get cholesterol down into that range, is known to cause low testosterone and that is the proposed mechanism.

 

Have you ever supplemented with DHEA?  It is a direct precursor for testosterone and estrogen (you need both btw).  If your low cholesterol is causing some of this DHEA should alleviate the need for it as a precursor.

 

If you haven't tried it I would give it a whirl.  I would start with 50mg daily and might go up to 100mg.

 

 

 



#69 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 03:19 PM

The reason I ask is that all your sex hormones are ultimately made out of cholesterol. 129 is quite low. Good (excellent in fact) for heart health, but that might be low enough that your body is having trouble finding enough raw material to make androgens. In fact, statin therapy, which will get cholesterol down into that range, is known to cause low testosterone and that is the proposed mechanism.

Have you ever supplemented with DHEA? It is a direct precursor for testosterone and estrogen (you need both btw). If your low cholesterol is causing some of this DHEA should alleviate the need for it as a precursor.

If you haven't tried it I would give it a whirl. I would start with 50mg daily and might go up to 100mg.


You see my above post?

DHEA-S level was fine. Upper half of the range.

#70 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 04:10 PM

Low-ish. Total 151
HDl 56
LDL 74

No problem with DHEA levels so no issues in the steroid chain. DHEA-S is 531mcg/dl

 

 

That's weird.  That's out of range high. If you're 30 the top end is 380 µg/dL.

 

So LH and FSH are normal and DHEAS is OOR high.  I can't remember what closes the feedback loop on LH and FSH - I think it's actually the estrogen level in both men and women.  Your estradiol is mid range.  Your testosterone is low.  Sounds like you're converting too much testosterone to estrogen. I wonder if an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex would straighten you out.  

 

Rocket would know more about that than me.



#71 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 04:17 PM

That's weird.  That's out of range high. If you're 30 the top end is 380 µg/dL.

 

So LH and FSH are normal and DHEAS is OOR high.  I can't remember what closes the feedback loop on LH and FSH - I think it's actually the estrogen level in both men and women.  Your estradiol is mid range.  Your testosterone is low.  Sounds like you're converting too much testosterone to estrogen. I wonder if an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex would straighten you out.  

 

Rocket would know more about that than me.

 

 

The more I think about it this makes sense. LH, FSH, and Estradiol are all mid range, as they should be, but testosterone is low.  If you're converting too much T -> E that is what you'd expect to see.  If you take an aromatase inhibitor then the body will respond by raising LH and FSH.  Testosterone will rise and estradiol should end up back at mid range after everything settles out.

 

Personally I'd much rather try a course of Arimidex before signing up for TRT.

 

BTW - if you are converting too much T -> E, then adding in exogenous T will make things worse.  Your estradiol will go high and you'll grow the perkiest breasts you've ever seen.

 

 


Edited by Daniel Cooper, 21 February 2020 - 04:21 PM.


#72 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 05:32 PM

The more I think about it this makes sense. LH, FSH, and Estradiol are all mid range, as they should be, but testosterone is low. If you're converting too much T -> E that is what you'd expect to see. If you take an aromatase inhibitor then the body will respond by raising LH and FSH. Testosterone will rise and estradiol should end up back at mid range after everything settles out.

Personally I'd much rather try a course of Arimidex before signing up for TRT.

BTW - if you are converting too much T -> E, then adding in exogenous T will make things worse. Your estradiol will go high and you'll grow the perkiest breasts you've ever seen.


So some kind of weird estrogen disorder? How does this explain my small genitalia etc? Weirdly small compared to others.

Anyway I got the T presciption AND alongside it, Arimidex. So I can just trial the Arimidex first and see what happens.

#73 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 06:39 PM

It’s an interesting hypothesis. Vitamin D, which gives me huge relief, is an anti-estrogen. Well anyway, I get all this stuff in the mail tomorrow. In my understanding an AI works almost immediately, so I’ll know what’s going on ASAP.

#74 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 06:49 PM

The key is that your body isn't really directly regulating your testosterone.  It's actually regulating your estrogen and essentially relying on an assumption of the rate at which testosterone is converted to estrogen.  So, testosterone is indirectly regulated.  If your body is converting T -> E at a higher than normal rate, you're going to end up with everything mid range except testosterone.

 

 



#75 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:04 PM

The key is that your body isn't really directly regulating your testosterone. It's actually regulating your estrogen and essentially relying on an assumption of the rate at which testosterone is converted to estrogen. So, testosterone is indirectly regulated. If your body is converting T -> E at a higher than normal rate, you're going to end up with everything mid range except testosterone.


Any evidence to back this up? This disorder seems super rare.

#76 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:36 PM

There aren’t really many reports on the web of anyone having meaningful success with an AI

#77 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:50 PM

Any evidence to back this up? This disorder seems super rare.

 
One of many papers - Right in the first sentence.
 
Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options

 

 



#78 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:52 PM


One of many papers - Right in the first sentence.

Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options


Looks like they hurt libido, didn’t help it.

#79 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:59 PM

There aren’t really many reports on the web of anyone having meaningful success with an AI

 

If those people are trying to achieve high end or super physiological level of testosterone, I wouldn't doubt that they aren't getting where they want to be via that route.

 

You on the other hand would probably be pretty pleased with a couple of 100 points of increase.  



#80 Daniel Cooper

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 08:02 PM

Looks like they hurt libido, didn’t help it.

 

 

Look around you will find both papers and anecdotal accounts of people that have had improvements in T levels and libido.

 

You seem fairly set on TRT.  I wish you the best of luck with that.  

 

I'm out.



#81 experimenting

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 08:12 PM

Look around you will find both papers and anecdotal accounts of people that have had improvements in T levels and libido.

You seem fairly set on TRT. I wish you the best of luck with that.

I'm out.


Well first of all thanks for all the help and I hope you’re right really, much safer and easier than TRT as you pointed out.

Just can’t find much info on this, so if you could provide a few links, I’d be much obliged.

#82 Rocket

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 01:14 AM

Dittos to Cooper.

#83 experimenting

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 08:28 PM

Dittos to Cooper.


Well, I appreciate your help.

Tried TRT gel for 3 days now. It makes me too nauseous to continue. With no measurable benefits either (I set a high bar for all supplements; usually things affect me immediately. Also, random supps have roofed my libido and mood immediately, T didn’t do that).

If you’re still interested-do you recommend I try the anastrazole, or do you suspect my issues are more psychological than anything?

#84 aribadabar

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 03:46 AM

Take 0.25mg Arimidex per week for 2 months. Test your T and E(AI may drop E too much which is why you need to see where you stand) levels after and report back.

This is a much safer and reversible method than TRT indeed.

 

If you are hell bent on doing TRT , AI+ hCG are must.


  • Agree x 1

#85 experimenting

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 12:35 PM

Take 0.25mg Arimidex per week for 2 months. Test your T and E(AI may drop E too much which is why you need to see where you stand) levels after and report back.
This is a much safer and reversible method than TRT indeed.

If you are hell bent on doing TRT , AI+ hCG are must.


I’ll test it out maybe but after this short trial I realize my problems are upstairs.

#86 Believer

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 10:37 AM

As said earlier, being a guy who has taken huge quantities of all kinds of steroids including vanilla testosterone in huge quantities, I can say for sure that high testosterone is not something to seek after and testosterone doesn't really do as much as people think it does.

I've noticed the lower my testosterone is the better I feel all-around.



#87 experimenting

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 04:04 PM

As said earlier, being a guy who has taken huge quantities of all kinds of steroids including vanilla testosterone in huge quantities, I can say for sure that high testosterone is not something to seek after and testosterone doesn't really do as much as people think it does.

I've noticed the lower my testosterone is the better I feel all-around.


Yeah it’s a symptom for me not a cause. Something is off with my hormonal axis. Maybe some kind of autoimmune, hence why D3 is so life changing for me.

#88 MrCrispr

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Posted 27 February 2020 - 08:47 PM

I've used testosterone cypionate and Clomid.  Neither did anything for my libido even after a year.  I would not use clomiphene again, as estrogen levels went wacky.  Before starting T, by total was 721.  But free T was in low range of normal, so I just wanted to see how I felt getting it higher.  I got stronger but didn't feel much else.  I don't have lack of energy or any other health issues.  I began to notice some testicular atrophy beginning after a year so I discontinued.  That effect reversed  and became normal again.  Given that, I would not be afraid to cycle testosterone.  I believe Dave Asprey and others have said something about that also.  I do believe if you do not have your weight and other health issues under control, you're wasting your time with T injections or creams. 



#89 experimenting

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:53 AM

I've used testosterone cypionate and Clomid. Neither did anything for my libido even after a year. I would not use clomiphene again, as estrogen levels went wacky. Before starting T, by total was 721. But free T was in low range of normal, so I just wanted to see how I felt getting it higher. I got stronger but didn't feel much else. I don't have lack of energy or any other health issues. I began to notice some testicular atrophy beginning after a year so I discontinued. That effect reversed and became normal again. Given that, I would not be afraid to cycle testosterone. I believe Dave Asprey and others have said something about that also. I do believe if you do not have your weight and other health issues under control, you're wasting your time with T injections or creams.


Yah you didn’t need it at 700. At 305, I’m in a different league.

I assume you don’t have issues with virilization. I always have. I’m weirdly tall but lanky, small torso. Skinny fat, or fat.

Problem is I have such a mixed set of cognitive issues I really can’t tell whether T is a symptom or a cause. Issues with chronic pain and a few other things also. Autoimmune is one route I have gone down given my immense relief from vitamin D3, but then this wouldn’t explain the T.

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#90 MrCrispr

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:45 PM

Yah you didn’t need it at 700. At 305, I’m in a different league.

I assume you don’t have issues with virilization. I always have. I’m weirdly tall but lanky, small torso. Skinny fat, or fat.

Problem is I have such a mixed set of cognitive issues I really can’t tell whether T is a symptom or a cause. Issues with chronic pain and a few other things also. Autoimmune is one route I have gone down given my immense relief from vitamin D3, but then this wouldn’t explain the T.

 

Many factors involved for you so it seems like a complex issue.  I'd recommend a thorough workup by a good endocrinologist.



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