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#1 Nate-2004

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:45 PM


At this point I'm at a loss as to why my blood pressure remains so high on average. 138 over 90 is the average for every single time I take it at home or even at the doctor's office.  It should be 120 over 80.  I've changed my diet for the last three months to a low saturated fat diet and more recently in the last few weeks I've lowered the amount of sodium and greatly increased the amount of potassium I'm getting in foods by changing snacks to dates, figs and bananas along with my diet that is already high in blueberries, salmon, spinach, beans, beetroot powder and other obvious foods.  It's been high for a long time now but this change didn't fix it. Obviously I exercise the minimum at least each week, 150 mins or whatever the recommended amount is. Usually bike riding, HIIT and walking a lot as well as 30 mins of sauna use which I've been doing for over three years now, 4x a week. I don't know what else there is I can do. It won't go down. My stress is at an all time low these days especially with the new job I love. I'm drinking far, far less than I ever have in life. I don't typically eat for 16 hours of every single day, sometimes 15, but usually 16 hours I'm fasting. I don't know what else is left to try. Garlic does nothing. It's like... hopeless I think. Getting my A1C down is still a chore despite all these changes. I'm 45. This should not be so ridiculously hard. I've followed ALL the advice I possibly can short of taking statin drugs which I hear all kinds of awful things about.

I assume I should be seeing a cardiologist but I imagine all they would do is prescribe me drugs with horrible side effects and long term issues. I'm waiting on my insurance to kick in at the new job but it's another month and 10 days now of waiting. Any ideas?



#2 kenb

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:02 PM

Hi Nate,

I use these two devices to help control BP.

Ultrabreath lung trainer.see: https://www.scienced...90408161643.htm

Isometric hand grip training. See: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5807761/
Device: expensive: zona. Cheap option: hand dynamometer

#3 Iporuru

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:16 PM

If you drink coffee, you could check the caffeine-genetic angle. You might be a slow metabolizer which increases your risk of hypertension. There's an informative article on Selfdecode:

 

"In addition, drinking coffee regularly can increase your risk of developing high blood pressure (hypertension) and heart disease [R, R].

People with this genotype who drink 2-3 cups of coffee per day have a 72% higher risk of high blood pressure than slow metabolizers who don’t drink coffee. Moreover, heavy drinkers who drink more than 3 cups/day are 3 times more likely to develop high blood pressure (200% higher risk) [R]! 

In addition, slow metabolizers younger than 60 who drink coffee have a higher risk of heart attack by [R]:

  • 24% when drinking 1 cup/day
  • 67% when drinking 2-3 cups/day
  • 133% when drinking 4 or more cups/day"

You can also check this link and these studies:

 

https://journals.lww...between.14.aspx

https://jamanetwork....larticle/202502

 

There's also a risk of impaired glucose tolerance, which I remember you also complained about:

https://link.springe...0654-015-9990-z ("Among the subjects stratified by CYP1A2 genotype, heavy coffee drinkers carriers of the slow *1F allele (59%) had a higher adjusted risk of impaired fasting glucose (HR 2.8, 95% CI 1.3-5.9)")

 

 

 


Edited by Iporuru, 21 February 2020 - 07:23 PM.

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#4 Nate-2004

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Posted 21 February 2020 - 09:20 PM

I have the opposite genotype actually, I am a fast metabolizer of caffeine. For us coffee and chocolate have a positive effect on bp and heart disease.

 

I have "The Breather" from Amazon though, maybe I'll keep doing that more, I keep forgetting to do it. I'll do it every day, 30 reps a day for 3 weeks and see if my bp changes.

 

As for genetics, I also am salt and sat fat sensitive, but even after avoiding these as much as I can and raising potassium to help lower sodium, my bp remains abnormally high.  I guess I need to see a doctor but somehow I doubt they'll have a clue.



#5 Oakman

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 04:44 PM

Anything you can do to raise nitric oxide levels in blood should help by relaxing the blood vessels and lower BP. You may have an innate inability to produce enough of your own nitric oxide. 

 

Just took my BP and it is 109/64 after coffee and breakfast and supps. Beyond those, pre-exercise I take is a combo of NO supplements, but certainly they affect overall BP results in general. 

 

Some NO positive supps like these (taken daily). I realize you know most of these, but do you take many of them daily, every day? Even the pre-exercise ones you might need always.

 

(daily supps marked w/*, rest taken in typically pre-exercise smoothie 1-2 hrs prior)

Beet Root Powder*

Red Spinach Powder (supposedly much better than beetroot)

L-Arginine

L-Citrulline

Green things like spinach, etc with lots of nitrates in them*

Flavonoids of all types, e.g.

    Blueberries (1-2 cups every day, fresh or frozen)*

    Bananas (green) in pre-exercise smoothie

     x2 Apples/day*

    Garlic extract* or Allicin* & Vitamin C*

    Cayenne Pepper*

    Quercetin*

    Grape Seed Extract*

    Resveratrol*

    Ginkgo Biloba*

 

No mouthwash or toothpaste

 


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#6 Nate-2004

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 03:17 PM

I have beetroot extract but I probably don't get enough of it. I get plenty of blueberries, also bananas. I don't take resveratrol. I was confused about the mouthwash thing till I googled this. The listerine I use doesn't seem to have this chlorhexidine. But man, go figure, you can have low bp and terrible breath and bleeding gums or vice versa. Do we have nothing in this world that doesn't fix one thing at the grave expense of another? Jesus f'king christ.


Edited by Nate-2004, 23 February 2020 - 03:18 PM.


#7 Iporuru

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 04:41 PM

From Dr. Greger's book How Not to Die:

 

"A low-sodium diet centered around whole plant foods appears to be the best way to
bring down high blood pressure. What if you’re already eating this way but that
110/70 still eludes you? There are a few foods in particular you can try that may
offer additional protection.

 

On average, high blood pressure medications reduce the risk of heart attack by 15
percent and the risk of stroke by 25 percent. But in a randomized, controlled trial,
three portions of whole grains a day were able to help people achieve this bloodpressure-
lowering benefit too. The study revealed that a diet rich in whole grains
yields the same benefits without the adverse side effects commonly associated with
antihypertensive drugs, such as electrolyte disturbances in those taking diuretics

 

I’ve already touched on whole grains and will go into detail about flaxseeds,
hibiscus tea, and nitrate-rich vegetables. Ground flaxseeds alone “induced one of the
most potent blood-pressure-lowering effects ever achieved by a dietary
intervention.” Eating just a few tablespoons a day appears to be two to three times
more powerful than adopting an aerobic endurance exercise program (not that you
shouldn’t do both—incorporate flaxseeds into your diet and exercise).

 

Consumption of both raw and cooked vegetables is associated with lower blood
pressure, but raw veggies may be slightly more protective. Studies have also found
that loading up on beans, split peas, chickpeas, and lentils may help a little, so add
those to your shopping list. Red wine may help, but only nonalcoholic brands. Only
wine that has had the alcohol removed appears to lower blood pressure.
Watermelon appears to offer protection, which is great (and delicious) news, but
you may have to eat about two pounds of it per day to achieve an effect

 

How does that result compare with taking drugs? The flaxseeds managed to drop
subjects’ systolic and diastolic blood pressure by up to fifteen and seven points,
respectively. Compare that result to the effect of powerful antihypertensive drugs,
such as calcium-channel blockers (for example, Norvasc, Cardizem, Procardia),
which have been found to reduce blood pressure by only eight and three points,
respectively, or to ACE inhibitors (such as Vasotec, Lotensin, Zestril, Altace), which
drop patients’ blood pressure by only five and two points, respectively. Ground
flaxseeds may work two to three times better than these medicines, and they have
only good side effects. In addition to their anticancer properties, flaxseeds have been
demonstrated in clinical studies to help control cholesterol, triglyceride, and blood
sugar levels; reduce inflammation, and successfully treat constipation

 

But high blood pressure is where hibiscus really shines. A double-blind,
placebo-controlled study out of Tufts University that compared hibiscus tea with an
artificially colored and flavored lookalike showed that three cups of hibiscus tea a
day significantly lowered blood pressure in prehypertensive adults better than the
placebo beverage.

To lower blood pressure, you should still lose weight, reduce your salt intake, get
more exercise, and eat healthier, but the evidence shows that adding hibiscus tea to
your daily routine may offer an additional benefit, comparable even to that provided
by antihypertensive drugs. Tested head-to-head against a leading blood pressure
drug, two cups of strong hibiscus tea every morning (using a total of five tea bags)
was as effective in lowering subjects’ blood pressure as a starting dose of the drug
Captopril taken twice a day.

 

In addition to eating antioxidant-rich foods that can boost your body’s ability to
produce NO, you can also eat certain vegetables, such as beets and greens, that are
rich in natural nitrates, which your body can convert into nitric oxide. (For the
difference between nitrates and nitrites, see chapter 10.) This process explains why
researchers have been able to show a ten-point systolic blood pressure drop in
volunteers within hours of their consuming beet juice—an effect that lasted
throughout the day

 

The optimal dose appears to be one-half cup, but beet juice is perishable,
processed, and hard to find. A typical fifteen-ounce can of beets would provide the
same dose of nitrate, but the most concentrated sources of the compound are darkgreen,
leafy vegetables. The following is a top-ten list of nitrate-rich foods, in
ascending order. As you’ll see, eight out of the top ten are greens.

 

TOP-TEN FOOD SOURCES OF NITRATES
10. Beets
9. Swiss chard
8. Oak leaf lettuce
7. Beet greens
6. Basil
5. Mesclun greens
4. Butter leaf lettuce
3. Cilantro
2. Rhubarb
1. Arugula

 

Arugula comes out on top with a whopping 480 mg of nitrate per hundred-gram
serving, which is more than four times the content of beets.
The healthiest way to get your nitrate fix is to eat a big salad every day. You
could take nitrate- and nitric-oxide-boosting supplements, but they have questionable
safety and efficacy records and should be avoided. What about V8 juice, which
boasts both beet and spinach juice? It must not have much, because you’d have to
drink nineteen quarts of it a day to reach your daily nitrate intake target."

 

 

References are provided in the book for each dietary agent


Edited by Iporuru, 23 February 2020 - 04:42 PM.

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#8 Oakman

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 05:26 PM

I have beetroot extract but I probably don't get enough of it. I get plenty of blueberries, also bananas. I don't take resveratrol. I was confused about the mouthwash thing till I googled this. The listerine I use doesn't seem to have this chlorhexidine. But man, go figure, you can have low bp and terrible breath and bleeding gums or vice versa. Do we have nothing in this world that doesn't fix one thing at the grave expense of another? Jesus f'king christ.

 

Actually, that last bit is incorrect. I used to have bleeding gums after flossing pretty normally, also used mouthwash. But after some research, I gave up mouthwash, toothpaste altogether, except maybe once every couple months with a high fluoride brushing just to keep tooth enamel strong.

 

Result was no more bleeding, no cavities, no bad breath. Mentioned same to dental hygienist, she agreed that people can be 'alergic' is how she put it to those things and they cause inflammation. No biggie, she said.

 

So I (electric) brush, floss (string, waterpik), and scape and all is much better than before. I always hated the sickly sweet chemical taste of toothpaste anyway and how it leaves an icky film on your teeth. Mouthwash, I always hates the icky sweet awful taste, and even the 'healthy' astringent or non alcohol ones were not much better.

 

Bottom line, killing your mouth microbiome every day is not the way to oral health, rather it keeps your dentist (and likely your general practitioner) in vacation money, and does bad things for your health in so many ways.



#9 sthira

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 05:14 AM

Nearly everyone is able to bring down high BP through a plant based diet and exercise. If diet isn’t working, recheck the diet, see if you may be fooling yourself by ignoring or forgetting or unconsciously editing out foods like processed sweets that are often loaded with sodium. Noting and documenting precisely what you eat helps. But if you can’t control it through diet and movement then BP lowering meds are available. My grandmother takes metoprolol (substituted for lopressor) and losartan potassium (substituted for cozaar) which are helpful in her case.

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#10 Turnbuckle

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:50 AM

I am a fast metabolizer of caffeine. For us coffee and chocolate have a positive effect on bp and heart disease.

 

 

 

Have you checked this recently? After decades as a coffee addict, I found my BP rising and ever more difficult to control. Finally I replaced caffeinated with decaffeinated, and discovered my real addiction wasn't to caffeine, but to drinking a hot beverage. Unfortunately, decaffeinated also raised my BP, though not as badly. Last week I replaced decaffeinated coffee with Hibiscus tea, and that both satisfied the addiction and lowered my BP to normal levels. Hibiscus tea has a reputation for lowering BP, but I previously had no luck with it, possibly because I was still drinking coffee.

 

 

Animal studies have consistently shown that consumption of HS [Hibiscus sabdariffa] extract reduces blood pressure in a dose dependent manner. They have also shown that total cholesterol, LDL-C, and triglycerides were lowered in the majority of normolipidemic, hyperlipidemic, and diabetic animal models, whereas HDL-C was generally not affected by the consumption of HS extract.
 
The daily consumption of HS calyx extracts significantly lowered SBP and DBP in adults with pre to moderate essential hypertension and type 2 diabetes. In addition, HS tea was as effective at lowering blood pressure as Captropril, but less effective than Lisinopril. 
 

 



#11 Nate-2004

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 03:25 PM

23 and Me states that I am a fast metabolizer of caffeine. I haven't done the test in a couple years now, they have a slightly upgraded chip, I could try again but pretty sure it'll say the same thing. I don't know how many joys I can give up in life, trying to be low sodium and low sat fat has been difficult enough. That's a line I won't cross. I hate tea.  I wish everything I loved wasn't bad for me.

 

However, the good news is that I think the 1 tbsp of beet root powder + 3 tbsps ground flaxseed I ingested yesterday did the trick. I'll have to test it again. My bp tested (twice) at 115/75 and 105/70 last night, kind of low, but better than high. If I can just manage to swallow that every single morning with a glass of water I might be ok.  Wish there were an easier way to ingest that. I have long hidden the beet root powder and ground flax in food I make but it's never that much in a single serving.


Edited by Nate-2004, 24 February 2020 - 03:26 PM.


#12 Oakman

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 04:30 PM

23 and Me states that I am a fast metabolizer of caffeine. I haven't done the test in a couple years now, they have a slightly upgraded chip, I could try again but pretty sure it'll say the same thing. I don't know how many joys I can give up in life, trying to be low sodium and low sat fat has been difficult enough. That's a line I won't cross. I hate tea.  I wish everything I loved wasn't bad for me.

 

However, the good news is that I think the 1 tbsp of beet root powder + 3 tbsps ground flaxseed I ingested yesterday did the trick. I'll have to test it again. My bp tested (twice) at 115/75 and 105/70 last night, kind of low, but better than high. If I can just manage to swallow that every single morning with a glass of water I might be ok.  Wish there were an easier way to ingest that. I have long hidden the beet root powder and ground flax in food I make but it's never that much in a single serving.

You might want to rethink your low salt diet as I have. This video highlights what happens on a low salt diet and it is not all moonbeams and roses. Note at 4:40 approx., high BP can be the result of low sodium.

 

As to beet root powder, it's naturally sweet, so mixing it with a fruit juice is all that's needed to hide the taste. If it bothers you alot, try Red Spinach extract with flavor. It's more potent, but costs more.



#13 Nate-2004

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 04:45 PM

You might want to rethink your low salt diet as I have. This video highlights what happens on a low salt diet and it is not all moonbeams and roses. Note at 4:40 approx., high BP can be the result of low sodium.

 

As to beet root powder, it's naturally sweet, so mixing it with a fruit juice is all that's needed to hide the taste. If it bothers you alot, try Red Spinach extract with flavor. It's more potent, but costs more.

 

The main reason for low sodium is that I have these warnings here about these SNPs in particular:

 

 

 

There are common polymorphisms in the SLC4A5 (sodium-bicarbonate cotransporter 4) gene that codes for the NBCe2 protein (electrogenic sodium bicarbonate cotransporter), which is involved in transporting sodium and bicarbonate across cell membranes in the kidney. The action of this protein is known to aid in regulation of pH and to affect blood pressure.

This genotype, rs7571842(A;G), is associated with a slightly increased risk for salt sensitivity of blood pressure. Salt sensitivity is defined as a change in blood pressure in response to a change in dietary salt (NaCl) intake. Individuals were deemed to be salt sensitive if mean arterial pressure increased ≥7 mmHg on a high salt diet as compared to a low salt diet. Salt sensitivity may occur in hypertensive as well as normotensive individuals and is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease.

185 Caucasian participants (55 hypertensive and 130 normotensive) were fed a controlled diet for 2 weeks. During the first week, dietary sodium was either low (10 mmol) or high (300 mmol) and then during the second week it was reversed. Blood pressure was measured throughout the course of the study to determine whether subjects were salt sensitive or salt resistant. The study showed a strong association between carriers of the A allele and salt sensitivity. This association was also observed in another Caucasian cohort of 211 mildly hypertensive individuals. The authors suggest that reducing excessive sodium in the diet might be especially beneficial for salt-sensitive individuals.

In vitro studies of kidney cells led investigators to propose a mechanism whereby this polymorphism may result in salt sensitivity. They suggest that under high salt conditions a nuclear binding factor (HNF4A) binds more strongly to an enhancer region in the SLC4A5 gene from (A;A) individuals than in (G;G) individuals. SLC4A5 gene expression is therefore increased, resulting in higher levels of the NBCe2 cotransporter and subsequently more sodium entering the cell.

Reducing excessive dietary sodium.
Reducing excessive sodium in the diet might be especially beneficial for individuals with theA allele. The majority of sodium in the average diet comes from processed and restaurant foods.

National Academies of Science - Health and Medical Division is preparing for a review of the Dietary Reference Intakes (DRIs) for sodium and potassium.

Read more about rs7571842 on SNPedia

SNPs Involved

rs7571842(A;G)

[/quote]

 

And

 

[quote]

Angiotensinogen (AGT) is a protein involved in the regulation of blood pressure and the body's fluid and electrolyte balance. Angiotensinogen, a precursor to angiotensin II, reabsorbs sodium from the kidneys and increases sodium retention in the blood, leading to rising blood pressure.

This genotype, rs5051(C;T), has been associated with an increased risk for hypertension and greater responsiveness to a low sodium diet.

There are common polymorphisms in the AGT gene, which codes for the angiotensinogen protein. The variant form (T) of the rs5051 polymorphism (also known as -6 G>A), located in the promoter region of the gene, is thought to increase basal AGT transcription rates and raise plasma angiotensinogen levels.

In a three year study, individuals with high blood pressure (n=1509) were randomized into four treatment groups: weight loss, sodium reduction, combined intervention, or standard of care. After the intervention, individuals with the (T;T) genotype had higher blood pressure than those with the (C;C) genotype in the standard of care group. However, in the sodium reduction group(T;T) subjects had a greater reduction in blood pressure than individuals with the (C;C) genotype. These results suggest that T allele carriers are salt-sensitive and may benefit from decreasing dietary sodium to reduce blood pressure.

In a randomized feeding study, a group of individuals with elevated blood pressure were fed one of three diets for eight weeks (a standard American diet, a standard American diet enriched with fruits and vegetables or a DASH diet). The Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diet is low in fat, high in fruits and vegetables, and lower in sodium. On the DASH diet, subjects with the (T;T) genotype had greater reductions in net systolic and diastolic BP (-6.93/-3.68 mmHg) compared to those with the (C;C) genotype (-2.80/0.20 mmHg). The authors suggest that individuals with theT allele are salt-sensitive, and their blood pressure may respond favorably to a reduced-sodium diet. Alternatively, individuals with the (C;C) genotype are not salt-sensitive and reducing dietary sodium may have little effect on blood pressure for these individuals.

Read more about rs5051 on SNPedia

SNPs Involved

[/quote]

 

And the Caffeine:

 

[quote]

Cytochrome P450 1A2 (CYP1A2) is a hepatic monooxygenase that plays a role in the metabolism of drugs and other xenobiotic compounds. It is the primary enzyme responsible for converting caffeine (1,3,7-trimethylxanthine) into the more water-soluble compound, paraxanthine, the first step in caffeine metabolism. CYP1A2 is beneficial since it processes toxic chemicals so they can be eliminated by the body, however, it is also involved in the activation of procarcinogens. CYP1A2 is also involved in cholesterol, steroid, and fatty acid biosynthesis.

This genotype, rs762551(A;A), has been associated with faster caffeine metabolism.

There are common polymorphisms in the CYP1A2 gene, which codes for the cytochrome P450 protein. The variant form, ©, of the rs762551 polymorphism (also known as -163C>A) located in the intron region of the gene, decreases enzyme activity and the ability of the enzyme to be induced

Effect of caffeine on hypertension.
Individuals (n = 553) were assessed for hypertension and coffee intake and followed for a period of 8 years. Carriers of the
C allele (slow caffeine metabolizers) showed a 3-fold increased risk for hypertension in association with heavy coffee drinking (≥ 4 cups/d) and a 1.72-fold increase with moderate coffee drinking (1-3 cups/d). Individuals with the (A;A) genotype (fast caffeine metabolizers) showed a slight benefit in hypertension risk from moderate to heavy coffee drinking. The authors go so far as to state that slow caffeine metabolizers are at increased risk for hypertension from coffee drinking and should abstain.

Effect of caffeine on exercise performance.
A study was conducted of competitive male athletes (n =101) completing a 10 km cycling trial with the intake of either0, 2, or 4 mg of caffeine per kilogram body mass. Individuals with the
(A;A) genotype showed a decrease in cycling time of 4.8% at 2mg/kg and 6.8% with 4mg/kg, as compared to placebo. No effects were seen in individuals with the (A;C) genotype at any caffeine level. However, athletes with the (C;C) genotype exhibited a 13.7% increase in cycling time. These results illustrate that equivalent amounts of caffeine may enhance performance in (A;A) individuals and diminish performance in (C;C) individuals.

Read more about rs762551 on SNPedia

SNPs Involved

 

There are several SNPs on my report that warn about saturated fat and its effect on insulin function, weight gain and blood pressure. Hence why I am more focused on striving to stay under 13g a day. It's hard enough to do that while avoiding sodium at the same time. Might as well just become a monk and live a boring and pleasureless life of suffering.


Edited by Nate-2004, 24 February 2020 - 04:47 PM.

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#14 Justin BoBustinBananaFanaF

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 05:35 PM

I would suggest going to a cardiologist. If you can get a beta blocker and it helps it will indicate that your nor/adrenaline is high.

In my case it seems to be due to high prolactin->high dopamine->high nor/adrenaline. Probably not your case as my problem is nocturnal only.

If you confirm it works you can wean off and try things to lower nor/adrenaline



#15 Nate-2004

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 07:53 PM

I would suggest going to a cardiologist. If you can get a beta blocker and it helps it will indicate that your nor/adrenaline is high.

In my case it seems to be due to high prolactin->high dopamine->high nor/adrenaline. Probably not your case as my problem is nocturnal only.

If you confirm it works you can wean off and try things to lower nor/adrenaline

 

I probably will go to a cardiologist quite soon if it keeps up. Going to test the next week or two doing the beet root powder and flaxseed every morning before I leave for work, then when I get home I'll test my bp each of those days. 

 

I have propranolol for essential tremor but I don't take it consistently because the side effects suck, energy drain is not what I need, nor the hair loss.


Edited by Nate-2004, 24 February 2020 - 08:18 PM.


#16 Nate-2004

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 12:01 AM

A couple hours after taking in the same dosage of beet root powder and flaxseed, my bp was 137 over 90. My bp is unmanageable. I had even less sodium and sat fat today than yesterday. I don't understand. It's all so random. I might as well be trying to control the weather. I don't wanna end up on statins or ace inhibitors. I guess that's the only choice I have though. Or maybe 2 hrs isn't long enough.



#17 Oakman

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 05:09 PM

Came across this interesting study of beetroot juice and BP reduction. The thing you might want to note is the length of time it took to reduce BP. It may take longer than you would imagine, so a weeks long regimen might be good to see results, not judge on a few days.

 

Home BP was reduced within 1 week of consumption of dietary nitrate, but not placebo, for both SBP and DBP and reduced over the entire 4-week intervention period (Figure 3A-B). Peak decreases in BP occurred at week 6 (i.e. last week of dietary nitrate intervention), with decreases in SBP compared to placebo of 8.1 mmHg (95%CI 3.8-12.4,p<0.001) and in DBP of 3.8mmHg (95%CI 0.7-6.8,p<0.01) (Figure 3A-B). 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...52/#!po=25.0000



#18 Nate-2004

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Posted 28 February 2020 - 03:02 AM

Came across this interesting study of beetroot juice and BP reduction. The thing you might want to note is the length of time it took to reduce BP. It may take longer than you would imagine, so a weeks long regimen might be good to see results, not judge on a few days.

 

Home BP was reduced within 1 week of consumption of dietary nitrate, but not placebo, for both SBP and DBP and reduced over the entire 4-week intervention period (Figure 3A-B). Peak decreases in BP occurred at week 6 (i.e. last week of dietary nitrate intervention), with decreases in SBP compared to placebo of 8.1 mmHg (95%CI 3.8-12.4,p<0.001) and in DBP of 3.8mmHg (95%CI 0.7-6.8,p<0.01) (Figure 3A-B). 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...52/#!po=25.0000

 

You're right, I've been doing the flax/beetruit/garlic every morning and more garlic in the evening the last few days and now it's finally dropping into the mid 120's. I guess it'll take some time. Every day it drops further.


Edited by Nate-2004, 28 February 2020 - 03:19 AM.


#19 adamh

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:29 AM

I found a simple easy way to lower blood pressure without drugs, without herbs, no exercise and its dirt cheap. Its a simple method of stimulating the parasympathetic nervous system. As we get older, the para and sympathetic systems which were once in balance come out of balance. This results in too much stimulation from the sympathetic and too little down regulation from parasympathetic. 

 

The way they use to do it is implant an electrode in the neck and run electricity through it. This was done for epileptics and did a good job of reducing attacks and limiting the severity. Naturally, invasive surgery is expensive, the follow ups are expensive and there are often complications. Plus the battery has to be replaced, more surgery, or else an external charging system.

 

They found that the parasympathetic nerves which go to every major organ in the body, also have a connection to the ears, and to the outer ear. They discovered that if they stimulated the outer ear, it would affect the entire parasympathetic system and have system wide effects and benefits. So no surgery, no implants, no risk of infection and in fact the doctor doesn't even have to be involved. Do not be surprised if your doc never mentions it, never heard of it and disses the idea if he/she hears of it. 

 

All you need is a dirt cheap tens device and a pair or two of ear electrode clips. All can be bought on the bay or the river. Yes, I have tested this and I use it regularly. I wrote up my experiences in another forum which many people miss. To make a long story short, using it on the right ear lowers blood pressure and reduces pulse rate. I use a low intensity setting, 100 microsecond bursts and the frequency does not seem to matter too much. Using it on the left ear improves mood and does some other good things.

 

Here are a few links to get you started

https://www.psycholo...es-center-stage

https://www.dicardio...al-fibrillation

https://www.mayoclin...ut/pac-20384565

 

My bp was 130/89 not too long ago at the doctors office. If I use this on a regular basis my bp is around 110/75 and if I use it every day I can lower it further. I use it for 30 minutes at a time. My pulse was always high, whenever it was taken it was always over 100, sometimes over 110 at rest. Last time I checked it was 95 and when I use it more often I have seen it down near 80

 

We are so conditioned to think of drugs or surgery when there is a problem that it can be hard to think outside the box. We do use herbs, but they are like soft drugs. We know diet plays a role but using a machine especially electricity seems counter intuitive. Many people will not try this though they need it. It is used for depression, epilepsy, helps with anxiety and other conditions as well. I just read in one of my links that it helps atrial fibrilation which I have. So I was treating AF along with bp and pulse, also mood and did not realize that benefit came with it.

 

I convinced a friend to try it who had high bp, very high in fact and she reported amazing results. No I'm not selling them lol but you can get them for as little as $20 or less or fancy models for more. The tens is made originally to treat muscle pain and other types of pain. They give you big electrode pads to stick on your body but they are too big to use on the ear so spend a few bucks more and get the clips. Make sure they have the 2mm pin socket which will work with the 2mm pins from the tens

 

So spend maybe $30, less than your copay for a visit or two and you can treat yourself at home. I've been using it for about 5 or 6 months and it still works like a charm, still using the same battery. If its placebo its the best placebo I ever saw, passes all tests. So hopefully a brave soul or two will try it and report back encouraging others to give it a go. I love something that works which doesn't involve drugs. They also use acupuncture in a similar way, this is just easier. Also other types of stimulation to the ear.


Edited by adamh, 29 February 2020 - 01:33 AM.


#20 Nate-2004

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Posted 29 February 2020 - 01:28 PM

I agree that devices or certain therapies are probably the future, not necessarily drugs, though I've yet to see anything work yet.  I may look into this and test it myself with my Omron blood pressure taker and see if it's worth keeping.  In the meantime the beetroot/flaxseed/garlic thing is working. 

 

Think this is a good one? 

 

https://smile.amazon...82985595&sr=8-2


Edited by Nate-2004, 29 February 2020 - 01:51 PM.


#21 rodentman

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 02:10 AM

If you drink coffee, you could check the caffeine-genetic angle. You might be a slow metabolizer which increases your risk of hypertension. There's an informative article on Selfdecode:

 

"In addition, drinking coffee regularly can increase your risk of developing high blood pressure (hypertension) and heart disease [R, R].

People with this genotype who drink 2-3 cups of coffee per day have a 72% higher risk of high blood pressure than slow metabolizers who don’t drink coffee. Moreover, heavy drinkers who drink more than 3 cups/day are 3 times more likely to develop high blood pressure (200% higher risk) [R]! 

In addition, slow metabolizers younger than 60 who drink coffee have a higher risk of heart attack by [R]:

  • 24% when drinking 1 cup/day
  • 67% when drinking 2-3 cups/day
  • 133% when drinking 4 or more cups/day"

You can also check this link and these studies:

 

https://journals.lww...between.14.aspx

https://jamanetwork....larticle/202502

 

There's also a risk of impaired glucose tolerance, which I remember you also complained about:

https://link.springe...0654-015-9990-z ("Among the subjects stratified by CYP1A2 genotype, heavy coffee drinkers carriers of the slow *1F allele (59%) had a higher adjusted risk of impaired fasting glucose (HR 2.8, 95% CI 1.3-5.9)")

 

Thanks. I wasn't aware of this.  I may cut out the coffee.



#22 Turnbuckle

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 10:40 AM

 

 

The first two links don't work.

 

 

Here's an interesting paper showing that lecithin can lowers BP in rats by 20 points.

 

This work shows that the lecithin (SL) derived from new-generation hen eggs exhibits hypotensive effect by reducing mean values of systolic and diastolic blood pressure in hypertensive SHR rats by 20.95 mmHg and 17.36 mmHg, respectively. Moreover, egg-lecithin in pathology of hypertension of SHR rats demonstrate anti-inflammatory effect and reduce arterial vasoconstriction in response to exogenous norepinephrine. In addition, the egg-derived lecithin was proved to reduce heart rate and decrease the oxidative stress in both normotensive and hypertensive rats’ strains. Furthermore, all effect of the egg-lecithin (SL) are unquestionably deemed as positive in the prevention and therapy of cardiovascular diseases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5620069/

 

 

It isn't clear if egg lecithin is actually better than soy or sunflower lecithin. 

 


Edited by Turnbuckle, 04 March 2020 - 11:35 AM.

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#23 Iporuru

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Posted 04 March 2020 - 02:29 PM

Drinking kefir may prompt brain-gut communication to lower blood pressure

#24 Nate-2004

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 08:28 PM

Adamh How do I get the Accumed tens unit to do 100 microsecond bursts? Most tens units have various settings but nothing so granular as specific burst speeds.



#25 adamh

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:47 PM

I'm not familiar with your unit normally there is a way to adjust each channel. I use 100 micro seconds but there is nothing special about that far as I know. If you can feel it it should be working. At a frequency of 20 hz should be fine but again nothing special about that number. Give it a few 30 minute sessions and you should see your bp go down. One a day should work, I suppose 2/day would not hurt.



#26 Nate-2004

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 07:38 PM

I'm not familiar with your unit normally there is a way to adjust each channel. I use 100 micro seconds but there is nothing special about that far as I know. If you can feel it it should be working. At a frequency of 20 hz should be fine but again nothing special about that number. Give it a few 30 minute sessions and you should see your bp go down. One a day should work, I suppose 2/day would not hurt.

 

I swapped it out for a better one, TENS 7000 specifically. It's got the settings you're talking about.

 

So far after 4 days of doing it with the pad under my ear and the clip on my tragus, yesterday's afternoon bp reading was 130 over 82, today's is 128 over 85. So a downward trend at least on the systolic which is encouraging. We'll see what it says tomorrow.



#27 adamh

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 08:24 PM

Yes and I think you said you had 138/ a few days previously. Usually it goes down faster than that, it may be that using the pad instead of the clip on the earlobe made a difference. I recommend 30 minute sessions once a day though I saw some studies that used 2x per day which might lower it faster. You may have a refractory type of high bp, but lowering it bit by bit is good and no drug side effects.

 

People should put one clip on the ear flap (tragus) and one on the ear lobe (lobulus) though other configurations may work. The study I saw in which I was able to see the polarity had negative on earlobe and positive on flap but I'm not sure it makes any difference. 

 

Using it on the left ear I've found improves mood quite a bit. In fact its been used against depression with success. Also used to reduce seizures in epileptics. Right ear normalizes pulse, helps with irregular beats and lowers bp. Both sides do other things too, can help with ibs or digestive issues. The vagus nerve which is what is being stimulated by this is our down regulator, the brakes so to speak on the car. It is the parasympathetic system while the sympathetic system upregulates, hitting the gas so to speak. As we get older the sympathetic system dominates leading to anxiety, insomnia, high bp and other problems. Using the low current 'tickle' on the ear is a biohack which helps restore that balance. I use it every day now but its ok to skip a day after you get into your range 



#28 Nate-2004

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 10:09 PM

Yes and I think you said you had 138/ a few days previously. Usually it goes down faster than that, it may be that using the pad instead of the clip on the earlobe made a difference. I recommend 30 minute sessions once a day though I saw some studies that used 2x per day which might lower it faster. You may have a refractory type of high bp, but lowering it bit by bit is good and no drug side effects.

 

People should put one clip on the ear flap (tragus) and one on the ear lobe (lobulus) though other configurations may work. The study I saw in which I was able to see the polarity had negative on earlobe and positive on flap but I'm not sure it makes any difference. 

 

Using it on the left ear I've found improves mood quite a bit. In fact its been used against depression with success. Also used to reduce seizures in epileptics. Right ear normalizes pulse, helps with irregular beats and lowers bp. Both sides do other things too, can help with ibs or digestive issues. The vagus nerve which is what is being stimulated by this is our down regulator, the brakes so to speak on the car. It is the parasympathetic system while the sympathetic system upregulates, hitting the gas so to speak. As we get older the sympathetic system dominates leading to anxiety, insomnia, high bp and other problems. Using the low current 'tickle' on the ear is a biohack which helps restore that balance. I use it every day now but its ok to skip a day after you get into your range 

 

So I got the other clip today and tried it, with the black anode on the tragus and the cathode on the lobe, several minutes in I decided to take my bp during, 138 over 84, so.... I don't get it. At a loss here but I'll keep trying.  I do notice my mood is up with having done it on both sides.


Edited by Nate-2004, 24 March 2020 - 10:10 PM.


#29 adamh

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 12:30 AM

Several minutes isn't going to be enough I suggest 30 minute sessions. Its good that you feel the mood lift.



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#30 Nate-2004

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 06:00 PM

Today's afternoon measurement was 123 over 82, so maybe this is working? I dunno. Could be a combination of this and all the other things, garlic, beetroot, flaxseed, high potassium, etc.







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