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coronavirus alternative views & theories

coronavirus covid-19

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#121 pamojja

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 03:48 PM

I don't understand how this is possible, considering that the health system in northern Italy is swamped, patients are treated in basements and corridors with med personnel working 18h shifts without days off, forced to triage ventilators and ICU beds. Crematorium in Bergamo is working 24/7 and still, yesterday 60+ coffins had to be sent to other municipalities for cremation (for which military trucks had to be summoned). All this info from Corriere della Sera.

 

Just calculated from the yearly Italian mortality, that there are are in average 1774 dying each day throughout the country. Calculated from the inhabitants of Bergamo statistically 3,47 per day there. If only a some of those due to the out-break are concentrated at a place like Bergamo - in a health-care system which I assume has been optimized like everywhere in Europe (meaning that already without any outbreak personel is working above their limits) - it would explain how easily it would get swamped.
 



#122 kurdishfella

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Posted 19 March 2020 - 07:41 PM

why aint there no animal reporting of deaths animal lives matter too. how many dogs and cats died in 2020 by covid 19?!  


Edited by kurdishfella, 19 March 2020 - 07:42 PM.

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#123 HBRU

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 04:59 AM

This virus maybe was an attempt to create a new senolytic agent that escaped laboratory before they were able to cut down the infectivity (so to sell it)...
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#124 Forever21

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:06 PM

I don't know why you've been getting so much hate in a thread that is split from an actual serious coronavirus talks.

I mean it's literally called "

coronavirus alternative views"

 

What did they expect?


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#125 Mind

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:15 PM

Just calculated from the yearly Italian mortality, that there are are in average 1774 dying each day throughout the country. Calculated from the inhabitants of Bergamo statistically 3,47 per day there. If only a some of those due to the out-break are concentrated at a place like Bergamo - in a health-care system which I assume has been optimized like everywhere in Europe (meaning that already without any outbreak personel is working above their limits) - it would explain how easily it would get swamped.
 

 

It seems the outbreak is concentrated in the north. If the normal daily mortality is spread out over the entire country, there are enough facilities to handle all the deaths. Concentrate them into a small portion of the country and it is trouble.


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#126 pamojja

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:21 PM

I don't know why you've been getting so much hate in a thread that is split from an actual serious coronavirus talks.

 

I think hysteria is at play. Everyone is really cornered, and never been that limited in life, fears creap up. I mention on many forums these days, that anything which could only by far be a 'conspiraty' theory, gets ridiculed or straight called BS, as never before. People are so scared that even obvious industrial intrests are immetiately marked as 'fake news'.

 

Nobody wants to face the fear inside. Better get angry at those who stir it further than the media anyway does. If there ever was a plan by anyone, it really seems to play out.

 

Good news for climate change too, isn't it :-D

 

 


Edited by pamojja, 20 March 2020 - 10:25 PM.

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#127 xEva

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:48 PM

Forever21, HBRU got most of the beating in another, 'respectable' thread, and was just moved here. But I see that someone added that last nasty icon to the list, probably in this thread already -- very inappropriate here, agree with you.

 

 

 

I think hysteria is at play. Everyone is really cornered, and never been that limited in life, fears creap up. I mention on many forums these days, that anything which could only by far be a 'conspiraty' theory, gets ridiculed or straight called BS, as never before. People are so scared that even obvious industrial intrests are immetiately marked as 'fake news'.

 

Nobody wants to face the fear inside. Better get angry at those who stir it further than the media anyway does. If there ever was a plan by anyone, it really seems to play out.

 

Good news for climate change too, isn't it :-D

 

Good thing we can have fun speculating here. Tough I must have missed those news re climate change. Link please?



#128 pamojja

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:57 PM

http://www.euromomo...._2017_2020.html

 

It 'appears' corona takes it all! And leaves all other causes of deaths with less, in sum not increasing total mortality at all.

 

Update for week 11. The week before 166 deaths, 11th ended already with 1089 covid-19 deaths.

 

Attached File  MAP-2020-11.png   198.06KB   0 downloads

 

No change from last week, yet



#129 pamojja

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Posted 20 March 2020 - 10:59 PM

Tough I must have missed those news re climate change. Link please?

 

Look at those beautiful satelite pictures upthread.
 


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#130 Hebbeh

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 01:06 AM

https://www.washingt...ery-stores-open

 

Mobilizing the National Guard to enforce a shut down and national quarantine would be martial law...

 

President Trump, moving with haste to slow the spread of the coronavirus, is preparing a plan to mobilize the National Guard to help enforce a two-week quarantine of the public if his tough-love efforts so far fail.

 

The unprecedented action would require everyone to “stay at home,” according to a source knowledgeable of the evolving plan.

The effort, which is still being mulled and wouldn’t be announced until early next week if needed, would urge that all businesses, except grocery stores and pharmacies, be closed.

It comes on the heels of other insider reports that the president is considering grounding all U.S. passenger flights to force a halt in people interacting and moving around the country.

 

Senior officials have said that dozens of radical ideas are being considered and that the president and his virus task force are moving quickly to protect the nation.

 

 


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#131 pamojja

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 01:51 AM

Good thing we can have fun speculating here.

 

More of a summary of all the many treatment options we read about the last weeks. Would be better fitting the 'Protecting from Coronavirus' thread. But then I too don't want to be hated for sharing just a summary of informations. Some accurate, some certainly wrong in this infectious paranoia (for example chlorquine or melatonin is of course still available in the EU..).

 

Dr Klinghardt's latest discoveries on COVID-19

 

 


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#132 ta5

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 03:58 AM

 

More of a summary of all the many treatment options we read about the last weeks. Would be better fitting the 'Protecting from Coronavirus' thread. But then I too don't want to be hated for sharing just a summary of informations. Some accurate, some certainly wrong in this infectious paranoia (for example chlorquine or melatonin is of course still available in the EU..).

 

Dr Klinghardt's latest discoveries on COVID-19

 

Interesting. Here's a list of things mentioned:

  • Chloroquine phosphate
  • Remdesivir
  • Nitazoxanide (Alinia, Daxon) "Just as effective as Chloroquine"
  • Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin
  • Calendula
  • Licorice
  • Scutalaria
  • Rosemary
  • Andrographis
  • Artemisia Annua
  • Dandelion
  • Avoid Selenium and other ACE inhibitors
  • Propolis
  • Vitamin C
  • Avoid NSAIDS
  • Calorie restriction
  • Humming


#133 xEva

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:45 AM

 

Interesting. Here's a list of things mentioned:

  • Chloroquine phosphate
  • Remdesivir
  • Nitazoxanide (Alinia, Daxon) "Just as effective as Chloroquine"
  • Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin
  • Calendula
  • Licorice
  • Scutalaria
  • Rosemary
  • Andrographis
  • Artemisia Annua
  • Dandelion
  • Avoid Selenium and other ACE inhibitors
  • Propolis
  • Vitamin C
  • Avoid NSAIDS
  • Calorie restriction
  • Humming

 

 

 

be very careful with calorie restriction during viral infections. Many viruses exploit autophagy machinery for their own replication. COVID-19 could be one of them, since hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, the 2 drugs shown to be effective against it, are autophagy inhibitors. This is no joke!

 

The other thing applies to me personally -- and many "patients like me" (i.e. people who hate licorice, coz it's actually harmful to them, to the point that they can feel it after few days of ingestion). ..though it could be beneficial to many others.

 

These 2 of things I just happen to know, for sure. Who knows what else on that well-meaning list that could have  harmful effect to you individually?


 


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#134 Jesus is King

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:06 AM

Don't fall into the fear and propaganda.

The only thing to fear is fear itself!

 

Keep calm and carry on.

 

This too will pass.

 

Chillax & eat up!

 

 


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#135 pamojja

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:38 AM

These 2 of things I just happen to know, for sure. Who knows what else on that well-meaning list that could have  harmful effect to you individually?

 

We are all different. Had seven times malaria about 20 years ago. But chloroquine didn't give me any bad effects, compared for example to lariam (halluzinations, lost 7kg of weight in one week; longest recovery time, whereas the malarias themself treated with usual medications have been actually worse). But I too wouldn't take such serious medications just for prevention, and without medical monitoring.

 

Also on my yearly almost 2 month vacations to South-India I use Ayurvedic herbal extracts extensively for maintaing remission from chronic diseases. Especially liquids, since I have the impression they are more effective then whats available in dry forms there, but not at home. For example this year got about 790 mg/d of liqorice extract from such combination products (keep in mind Indian extracts aren't standardized to a 5 to 1 concentration, but more likely 2 to1), additional to about 700 mg/d plain licorice powder. No side-effects at all.

 

Also see no advantage in using NSAIDs. Also Antivirals can have damaging side-effects with limited effects. And specially since this virus seems to replicate for the 1st week mainly in the upper respiratory tract, think spraying with something harmless but antiviral will have a much better impact at lower risk.(HOCL which Kinghardt uses wasn't mentioned in above list)
 

But for me the main take-away of this presentation, harmless things like ascorbic acid, andrographis, artemisia or humming along with desinfecting can already go a long way in prevention.

 

Nevertheless, side-effects are even possible with 'harmless' things, since we all have different bio-chemical individuallity and sensitivities. And I would therefore always recommend to start with something new in tiny doses first, and only increase very gradually to catch always possible side-effects fast, and before they become too severe.


Edited by pamojja, 21 March 2020 - 11:48 AM.


#136 Jesus is King

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 12:06 PM

Also here's a theory I came up with a few days ago.

 

 

China = Deep State, they've been basically using China as a money laundering scheme to buy up foreign countries land, infrastructure, wealth, and sovereignty. Don't forget China is a communist country, while having the appearance of capitalism, all Chinese companies and their people's investments really belong to the state. So it doesn't matter if the illusion of Huawai being a private company is investing in 5G communication infrastructure in the U.K., it really is just a frontend for the Chinese state.

 

Just google how many acres of land and debt the Chinese and their companies own in foreign countries. 

 

What we'll see in the future is a trend to blame China for the economic damage caused by coronavirus which they released/caused. This will result in the countries affected demanding financial retribution/compensation. When the Chinese government can't afford or refuse to compensate the countries for the economic fallout due to the coronavirus, the countries themselves will nationalize (i.e. confiscate) the Chinese investments in their own country, writing off trillions of dollars of debt and regaining their wealth, land, and sovereignty back.

 

The reason the MSM don't want Trump calling it the Chinese Virus, is because they're trying to prevent shifting the economic blame of the coronavirus back onto China.

 

In other words:

 

1. Watch the trend shifting the blame to China for the economic fallout created by their coronavirus. 

2. Then watch China bailout foreign countries economies in some form or another, willingly or unwillingly.

 

 

That's my theory on what I think part of the plan will be.


Edited by Jesus is King, 21 March 2020 - 12:10 PM.

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#137 xEva

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 12:06 PM

well, since this is the 'alternative' thread I'll tell you what's on my mind. I think this virus us a godsend. It's the answer to the prayers of countless dementia patients and their families. As well as of countless terminally ill people waiting to die in the most undignified conditions, not allowed to decide on the time and mode of their own death -- all that while being pharmed for profits by the healthcare industry.

 

Also, if I were in my 20s now, I'd ignore quarantines and curfews in protest against the old generation, who had it so much better when they were my age, and by now they have hoarded all the resources and left me and my generation to deal with the consequences of their greedy mismanagement. I speak mostly of the USA of course. What I'm saying is hurray COVID-19 and to hell with old kakas! We need space.

 

 

hey, somebody gotta be brave enough to speak up for the young generation :)  you go Covid!

 


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#138 pamojja

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 12:43 PM

You are shocking me. Though you are right that there are some elderly with a terminal diagnosis do want to just get over with - my mother a case in point after her pancreatic cancer diagnosis at age 82 last year - there are more not yet in the position and wanting nothing more to see at least their grandparents grow up, for example. And most do of course care for the wellbeing of their parents and grandparents.

 

I don't want to sound too judgemental about your complete lack of emphaty to the majority. But I must assume your very self-centered extreme heartless view will cause just the opposite. And most of the young generation might realize through this what's really at stake. They will do the opposite you would do: self-isolate for the survival of the elderly.


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#139 xEva

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 01:08 PM

common pamojja, let's deal with reality. This virus has become endemic, there is no stopping it, there is only slowing it. Everyone will eventually bump into it, not this year then next. and if not then then the year after.

 

Funny that the closest older person to you is longing to die. The same is true of mother of my closest friend. My mom does not want to die, but her close friend has been moaning about this for years. Looks like between the 2 of is, we know 4 old women, 3 of whom are longing to die but are not 'allowed'. They hear about this virus and they say, not a moment too soon. How about this informal survey?


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#140 BlueCloud

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 02:40 PM

well, since this is the 'alternative' thread I'll tell you what's on my mind. I think this virus us a godsend. It's the answer to the prayers of countless dementia patients and their families. As well as of countless terminally ill people waiting to die in the most undignified conditions, not allowed to decide on the time and mode of their own death -- all that while being pharmed for profits by the healthcare industry.

 

Also, if I were in my 20s now, I'd ignore quarantines and curfews in protest against the old generation, who had it so much better when they were my age, and by now they have hoarded all the resources and left me and my generation to deal with the consequences of their greedy mismanagement. I speak mostly of the USA of course. What I'm saying is hurray COVID-19 and to hell with old kakas! We need space.

 

 

hey, somebody gotta be brave enough to speak up for the young generation  :)  you go Covid!

 

I have to say that i disagree with pretty much everything

 

first , don’t forget that there are many younger people that are in the riskier categories as well : people with diabetes, or auto-immune conditions. A society that whishes to eliminates the old and the weak is reminiscent of some dark pages of history  . Even young healthier people sometimes develop severe symptoms, even though they don’t end up with death

As for the deliverance of people with terminal illnesses, Covid19 is not the solution. The solution is allowing people who want to exit peacefully , to do so. Medical euthanasia is now legal in many countries. No need for a disaster like the coronavirus to achieve it.

 

Also the fact the virus is now endemic with no way to stop it doesn’t mean there aren’t other strategies. I think more and more that the Herd Immunity strategy might be the better one than the (maybe) unachievable containment of the virus (it seems to be the strategy adopted by that the Netherlands, Sweden , and the UK before they reversed course)

.Basically confine the elderly and the younger ones with auto-immune issues for several months, let the young and healthy  go back to work and be infected ( since we know the chances of developping serious symptoms are extremely low for younger people), so that a majority of the population develops immunity and becomes a shield around the weakest people, who can then come out of confinement.


Edited by BlueCloud, 21 March 2020 - 02:44 PM.


#141 xEva

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 03:14 PM

Of course Europeans with guaranteed health care and education see it differently. In civilized countries with euthanasia they see it differently.

Not so here in the US. Here dog eats dog and corporate profits is the ultimate goodness. The younger generations feel burdened and unfairly slighted by the old, already because they are denied the affordable education their parents and grandparents enjoyed. How come it all changed so much in the span of just 1-2 generations?

 

At the moment, the American society appears so rotten that one longs for a disaster of this sort, so that we could start anew. There just seems no way to fix it incrementally.


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#142 Jesus is King

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 04:24 PM

It’s because we’re all living in a false economy. Currently all money is debt, it’s made out of thin air. Then this funny money has interest put on top on it, which can’t be paid back because there’s not enough funny money in existence in the economy to pay it back. This is how they strip the wealth of a country and it’s citizens and end up owning everything i.e. the banks with their funny money financial system. They all in cahoots with each other, and the governments, and keep this funny money financial system running until everything is owned by those at the top.

 

Before money use to be backed up by precious metals I.e. the gold standard. So you £100 would be exchangeable for something tangible. Now it’s just faith in the currency, and the biggest reason the US dollar has been the most valuable currency for so long, is not only because of the large wealth of the nation, but because of the petrodollar, I.e. all countries that export oil must be paid in US dollars for their oil.

 

Money = debt. Because what you hold in your hand isn’t backed up by anything. It’s made out of thin air. It’s value is nothing but the faith you put in it. They’re called promissory notes, because it’s a promise to pay, and IOU. So think of your money as just numbers, as debt being exchanged with other debt.

 

But you don’t have to believe me! BELIEVE THE BANK OF ENGLAND!

 

https://www.bankofen...-modern-economy

 

 

Money creation in reality

 
Lending creates deposits — broad money determination at the aggregate level
 
As explained in ‘Money in the modern economy: an introduction’, broad money is a measure of the total amount of money held by households and companies in the economy. Broad money is made up of bank deposits — which are essentially IOUs from commercial banks to households and companies — and currency — mostly IOUs from the central bank.(4)(5) Of the two types of broad money, bank deposits make up the vast majority — 97% of the amount currently in circulation.(6) And in the modern economy, those bank deposits are mostly created by commercial banks themselves.

 

 

When a bank makes a loan, for example to someone taking out a mortgage to buy a house, it does not typically do so by giving them thousands of pounds worth of banknotes. Instead, it credits their bank account with a bank deposit of the size of the mortgage. At that moment, new money is created. For this reason, some economists have referred to bank deposits as ‘fountain pen money’, created at the stroke of bankers’ pens when they approve loans.(1)

 

Let’s take an example of this using a $100,000 mortgage and a house.

 

1. Bank creates new money, $100,000 out of thin air, by crediting the account of the person who is taking the mortgage out.

2. Then lets say the interest rate is 10% per year. By the end of 10 years you owe another $100,000 in interest. But this money doesn’t exist in circulation, because they only created $100,000.

3. So there are 2 scenarios. If you can’t pay it back, they take you’re house. Or you have to earn enough of their created money in circulation in their false economy to pay it back, but someone else always loses out, and this builds up until they’ve taken all the wealth of a country.

 

This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s a fact. It’s right there on the Bank of England website. They create the money, then they put interest on that money which doesn’t exist in circulation to ever pay it back. And they do this with all sorts of things (not just mortgages), until the country becomes more and more stripped of everything, public services, homes, land, wealth, and their sovereignty.

 

Just play a game of monopoly and you’ll completely understand how the funny money financial system works, seriously.


Edited by Jesus is King, 21 March 2020 - 04:25 PM.

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#143 Jesus is King

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 07:34 PM

New alternative view:

 

Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin might have the ability to cure many viral diseases such as AIDS, and may even be able to help cure types of cancer aggravated by viruses. And because coronavirus is on such a large scale, so many people will be taking this drug combo, and once they realize they're no longer suffering with these other incurable diseases (AIDS, Cancer, Herpes etc...), no amount of propaganda will ever be able to prevent or suppress this knowledge again.


Edited by Jesus is King, 21 March 2020 - 07:39 PM.

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#144 zorba990

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 08:21 PM

New alternative view:

Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin might have the ability to cure many viral diseases such as AIDS, and may even be able to help cure types of cancer aggravated by viruses. And because coronavirus is on such a large scale, so many people will be taking this drug combo, and once they realize they're no longer suffering with these other incurable diseases (AIDS, Cancer, Herpes etc...), no amount of propaganda will ever be able to prevent or suppress this knowledge again.


Life or death might do but otherwise side effects are a no go for me. Went through the horror of tendon issues many decades ago from similar thinking.
My strategies are:
Normalize nitric oxide through exercise, agmatine, citrulline, and glutathione. Take echinacea, and other thymus supporters. Methylene blue away from exercise in exercise recovery phase (one drop oxidal).
Block 5G / Tertrahertz signals. All this info on other threads with references.... Tetrahertz is theoretical but is at the resonance of dsRNA.
Medidate, keep going to massage other alternative therapies. You must sleep well so take melatonin or use Ying Tang acupuncture points to sleep.
Be well folks... this too shall pass
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#145 sthira

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 09:49 PM

well, since this is the 'alternative' thread I'll tell you what's on my mind. I think this virus us a godsend. It's the answer to the prayers of countless dementia patients and their families. As well as of countless terminally ill people waiting to die in the most undignified conditions, not allowed to decide on the time and mode of their own death -- all that while being pharmed for profits by the healthcare industry.


I hear what you’re saying; but far more humane would be to just put them down comfortably, like the veterinary business. When my dog got incurable spleen cancer, my vet cried with me as we put him quietly and painlessly to death. Who wouldn’t want to go down on morphine?

Also, if I were in my 20s now, I'd ignore quarantines and curfews in protest against the old generation, who had it so much better when they were my age, and by now they have hoarded all the resources and left me and my generation to deal with the consequences of their greedy mismanagement. I speak mostly of the USA of course. What I'm saying is hurray COVID-19 and to hell with old kakas! We need space. hey, somebody gotta be brave enough to speak up for the young generation :) you go Covid!


Well, I mean... I feel that boomers have by and large rigged life against the rest of us — astronomical student loans, the high cost of housing, low wages, fossil fuel stubbornness, climate change, hey, — their message to us has been they got their grand lives and screw you to everyone in generations behind them — basically all of us — we should pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. They voted Trump into office, let them reap their rewards.

But the rich shall be just fine. They’ll watch on Fox the enormous crashing of our fragile civilization from their gated hideaways. Or not.

Also, I’d not be so confident that young folks are totally immune to any virus — particularly this thing. I mean, I know a lot of fatso, inactive, junk food, cigarette smoking Millennials who might die right on schedule with their aged counterparts.

be very careful with calorie restriction during viral infections. Many viruses exploit autophagy machinery for their own replication. COVID-19 could be one of them, since hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, the 2 drugs shown to be effective against it, are autophagy inhibitors. This is no joke!


I’m long term CRed and this is sorta the tentative conclusion I’ve reached as well. I’m eating more calories now, gonna reverse course, up my BMI and stop the monthly fasting practices. Unsure if this is the right thing to do, but we’ve little reliable guidance with regard to fasting anyway, so yeah...
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#146 BlueCloud

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:20 PM

This thread should retitled “ Coronavirus comical and parody views” . My brain is nearly exploding at the thought that some people actually believe what they are saying here, and I’d rather try to convince myself that they are actually attempting some form of absurdist humour. 


Edited by BlueCloud, 22 March 2020 - 12:21 PM.

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#147 Jesus is King

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 05:27 PM

Coronavirus is a hoax just like climate change. It either doesn’t exist at all, or isn’t as bad as the media, information sources, and governments are making it to be (fatality rates, infection rates). It’s all propaganda and fear mongering, a guise for something else, an ulterior motive.

 

People can believe whatever they want to believe, as for me, I’ll switch off the TV, drink a cup of hot cocoa in my garden under the warm sun, and then go to work tomorrow and carry on as normal, and notice the world hasn’t ended for the umpteenth billionth time.

 

People let their fears control them, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of people would approve of Hitleresque type actions if it meant saving themselves from their own fears.

 

 


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#148 kurdishfella

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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:02 AM

No I think you are letting fear control you because you are making everything a conspiracy and can't think straight. 

 

 

People can believe whatever they want to believe, as for me, I’ll switch off the TV, drink a cup of hot cocoa in my garden under the warm sun, and then go to work tomorrow and carry on as normal, and notice the world hasn’t ended for the umpteenth billionth time.

 

sounds like you are trying to convince yourself these things are not real and a problem. I guess it is a good method, keep telling yourself that


Edited by kurdishfella, 23 March 2020 - 09:04 AM.


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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:33 AM

Some people continue to debate the degree of reaction to this virus outbreak, looking at seasonal flu and pneumonia deaths vs. Coronavirus deaths.

 

https://www.lewrockw...out-of-nowhere/


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Posted 23 March 2020 - 09:58 AM

I try to gather information from all sources, I am not afraid to read "alternative views". Some are kind-of "crazy". Some are thought-provoking.

 

I don't think there is a grand conspiratorial plan to enslave the world, just that some politicians often exploit a crisis when it pops up. They didn't have a grand plan ahead of time, but are opportunistic.

 

Many people have commented about China "freaking out", and locking down the country - so this Coronavirus must be really bad. Sadly, I still cannot trust any information coming out of China. They down-played and covered-up the outbreak for about a month before "freaking out". Maybe they over-reacted - making up for lost time - just to show the world they could control it.

 

Hard to know if the Iranian data is valid. I am unsure if they have good data-collection methods for the entire country

 

The Italian data is considered good, but then some people question the nature of the deaths. With so many people being turned away from medical services over the last 2 to 3 weeks, perhaps "normal" deaths (from cancer, heart attacks, etc...) that would have occurred throughout the year are being "pulled forward" and concentrated during this period of time.

 

Most of the deaths in the US have come from nursing homes, but the mortality rate in Nursing homes from the seasonal flu and other coronaviruses can be as high as 5 to 8%.

 

LongeCity members from Italy say is is much worse than the flu and that people outside of Italy lack good perspective on how bad it is.

 

That all being said, I have to trust and our Italian members and the doctors who have been in the media saying that this virus is different - that it causes a lot more pneumonia-like problems among patients, even young patients. People can debate how much worse this virus is than the seasonal flu (twice as bad, 10 times as bad, etc.), but it does seem worse.

 

 







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