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Athanasios' supplement regimen


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#1 Athanasios

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 07:08 PM


Legend:
(brand)
# = amount a day
example: (Now) 6, is six pills of Now Foods brand.

Multi (Vimmortal) 2
Vitamin D3 (Now) avg. 1100iu/day
Fish Oil (natures answer) .8g DHA+EPA
Vit K (Carlson's MK4) 5mg, 1/3 pill
Magnesium Citrate (Now) 200mg 1
Vit C (Jarrows w/25mg Olive Fruit Extract) 1000mg 1
Rutin (Carlson's) 500mg, 1/4 tab
Tea 1g powdered sencha green tea (o-cha)
Mixed Berry Extract (Brownwood Acres) 1 teaspoon
Lactoferrin (Jarrows) 250mg 1
Chlorophyllin (Now) 100mg 1
CoQ10 (Now) 30mg 1
Melatonin (LEF's time released) 300mcg 1 and 1mg sublingual 1
Ashwagandha 450mg (Now) 4.5% 1
Xylitol (Jarrows) (~2 teaspoons)
Lithium Orotate 5mg 1
Oral Probiotic (LEF) lozenge 1

What you see is my most recent regimen. This means that the comments on this specific regimen will be at the end of the thread.

Edited by Athanasios, 02 August 2012 - 02:48 AM.

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#2 doug123

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 07:59 PM

Cool stack.

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#3 ajnast4r

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 12:44 PM

great stack effective but not excessive. if you can fork out the extra bucks, i would go over to jarrow or aor AGPC (whatever you can find cheaper, jarrow buys it from aor)

where did you get the R+SR?

#4 Pablo M

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 07:44 PM

A quick question
Why take the alpha lipoic acid after lunch as opposed to taking it with food?
Why take the ALCAR after the alpha lipoic acid?

I've been taking my ALCAR 45 minutes before lunch on an empty stomach and my ala with lunch. Am I ordering things wrong?

If I may take a stab at it: ALCAR increases energy production in the mitochondria. Some feel it is a good idea to have some lipoic acid in you before you take it, to avoid to production of excess free radicals.

Lipoic acid is, according to AOR, better absorbed on an empty stomach, but taking it with food provides somewhat of a sustained-release effect.

edited by Matthias: quote tag removed by request

Edited by Matthias, 03 March 2007 - 12:10 AM.


#5 Athanasios

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:03 PM

great stack effective but not excessive. if you can fork out the extra bucks, i would go over to jarrow or aor AGPC (whatever you can find cheaper, jarrow buys it from aor)

where did you get the R+SR?


"effective but not excessive" was what I was shooting for. Ha, right now I am using Jarrows...yeah it is worthwhile to spend the extra...I will update the list above, as well as my list on what to order for my next supp shipment


I have been getting the R+SR from Canada: from victoriashealth


Edit: Removed link for shop name

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:25 AM.


#6 FunkOdyssey

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:07 PM

What is freaking me out here is that I knew I read somewhere that Lipoic acid was better absorbed on an empty stomach, but Pure Encapsulations, an equally classy company in my eyes, states very specifically that it is to be taken with a meal.

As I understand it, taking lipoic acid with food will reduce the total amount absorbed but will also result in somewhat of a sustained-release effect.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:26 AM.


#7 zoolander

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 05:26 PM

Have you consider the following well studied supplements:

Astaxanthin
Indole-3-carbinol or DIM
N-acetyl cysteine

#8 Athanasios

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 10:05 PM

Have you consider the following well studied supplements:

Astaxanthin
Indole-3-carbinol or DIM
N-acetyl cysteine


Good suggestions!

I have thought about Indole-3-carbinol before. I still have yet to decide if I should supplement more of this. I eat broccoli, brussel sprouts, or cabbage every day. I love them. This, and the consumption of green tea and Rala, has kept me from adding it thus far.

Do you have any good info on Astaxanthin? I have not found much that has made me excited about it yet.

Do you think NAC is needed even when taking Rala?

Edit: Paper on Astaxanthin, <a href="http://jn.nutrition....ull/134/1/257S" target="_blank">http://jn.nutrition..../134/1/257S</a>

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:27 AM.


#9 kenj

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 11:04 PM

Do you think NAC is needed even when taking Rala?


Fully upgrading the mitochondria/restoring glutathione levels *might* call for extra N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine. 2004: -alpha-lipoic acid reverses the age-related loss in GSH redox status in post-mitotic tissues: evidence for increased cysteine requirement for GSH synthesis
I take it throughout the week, 200-600mg/day.
Great suggestions, Zoolander. Asta & I3C rock! And great program, Athan!

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 02:49 PM.


#10 Athanasios

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 12:24 AM

After looking around a bit, it appears that it is not needed for that reason.

Dihydrolipoic acid is released into the culture medium where it reduces cystine. Cysteine thus formed is readily taken up by the neutral amino acid transport system and utilized for glutathione synthesis. By this mechanism lipoic acid enables cystine to bypass the xc- transport system, which is weakly expressed in lymphocytes and inhibited by glutamate.


Biofactors. 1997;6(3):321-38

....Both agents facilitate extracellular supply of cysteine, the reduced form of cystine, that is transported into the cell by a glutamate-insensitive transport mechanism.


I will look into if NAC potentiates the effect of Rala, but right now i got to get to class.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:31 AM.


#11 luminous

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 03:41 AM

Xylitol gum 2-3 @ $2, after meals..... alcohol/xylitol mouthwash $1, before bed


How come the gum?

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:32 AM.


#12 Athanasios

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:43 PM

Just to keep the teeths healthy. Gum is good to make extra saliva after you eat, getting out loose particles, and the xylitol creates mutants, of the bad bacteria in your mouth, that are less harmful for your teeth.

#13 Athanasios

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:58 PM

After looking into NAC, I decided to add Aged Garlic. It is cheap, and it will boost glutathione while also having other beneficial effects such as lowering blood pressure and lower/prevent LDL oxidation., antiglycation, etc.

Thanks again for the pointer Zoolander.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:33 AM.


#14 DukeNukem

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:14 AM

First time I've looked at this topic...

I'd add a few whole food supplements, like pomegranate, blueberry and ginger:

http://www.newchapte...r&-KeyValue=182
or
http://fruitfast.com...atesoftgels.htm

http://www.brownwoodacres.com/bbiq.htm

http://www.newchapte...r&-KeyValue=107
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#15 Athanasios

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 02:39 AM

Duke, that is exactly what I feel like is missing from what I take, whole food sups. I really want to get in on a green food sup, blueberries, cherries and grapes. Price has been the limiting factor for me so far. I am at the upper range of what I can spend on supps. If I wasn't going to school I would probably drop the piracetam and choline for them, but it has been too good to me in school to do that.

So, I eat a lot of spinach, broccoli, cabbage, etc for greens, and I usually eat almost a cup of frozen wild blueberries with my oatmeal in the mornings. I can get this in my diet cheaper than I can get the equivalent in powder or pills, from what I have seen so far. The blueberries and broccoli I buy frozen to get them cheap. Cabbage is usually cheap and so is spinach. They probably cost me about $20 all together a month.

Edit: I dropped my time release Rala at bedtime for time release NAC in order to free up money for the blueberry and pom supp as well as a bit of bacopa.

Edited by Athanasios, 20 June 2010 - 11:36 PM.


#16 health_nutty

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 04:37 PM

Very nice stack. Nice decision on the Rala for blueberry/pom imho.

#17 brainengineer

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Posted 06 January 2007 - 08:24 AM

Looks impressive.

Ive got a question on the Vitamin D (was it D3). Why?? I guess Im curious as to the motivations for it.

And I didnt fully understand your comment about "while researching NAC ... Aged Garlic". Did that mean you are going to use Aged Garlic instead of NAC, or in addition too.

All this discussion on blueberry/pom is getting me thinking about reassessing my own stack...

--
BrainEngineer

#18 Athanasios

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:13 PM

Yep, D3, which is the form that is very safe with low toxicity.

Deficiency in vit D is high, and it comes at a high cost. The vitamin is super cheap and safe. I think we have more to learn on the benefits of this vitamin, even though there are mountains of research already. I am truly surprised at how little coverage D3 gets. I currently get 1600iu from my multi and vit d supplement. I live in texas.

From PMID: 16251641

Vitamin D deficiency is now recognized as an epidemic in the United States. ...There is mounting scientific evidence that implicates vitamin D deficiency with an increased risk of type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension, cardiovascular heart disease, and many common deadly cancers. Vigilance of one's vitamin D status by the yearly measurement of 25-hydroxyvitamin D should be part of an annual physical examination.

They defined vitamin D insufficiency as a serum 25(OH)D of ≤20 µg/L (50 nmol/L), and divided their subjects into 4 age groups, 18–29 y, 30–39 y, 40–49 y, and ≥50 y. Serum 25(OH)D was measured in 142 subjects at the end of summer and in 165 subjects at the end of winter. A high incidence of vitamin D insufficiency was found (Table 2). A significant (P < 0.001) difference was demonstrated between measures of 25(OH)D after summer (35 ± 10 µg/L) and after winter (30 ± 10 µg/L). Vitamin D insufficiency was more prevalent in all age groups after winter and averaged 30% after winter and 11% after summer. Somewhat surprisingly, the eldest group was least likely of the groups to have insufficiency and the authors felt this is likely explained by subjects’ use of a multivitamin containing 400 IU of Vitamin D. Multivitamin use was significantly inversely associated with vitamin D insufficiency in the after summer and the after winter groups.

The data show that for every 40 IU of vitamin D intake, circulating 25(OH)D increases by 0.70 nmol/L (0.28 µg/L) over 5 mo on a given regimen. A steady state appears to be achieved after ~90 d on each dose tested (23,38). Thus, doses of 400, 1000, 5000, and 10,000 IU/d for 5 mo will result in theoretical increases in circulating concentrations of 7, 17.5, 70, and 175 nmol 25(OH)D, respectively. Again, no adverse events were noted.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:37 AM.


#19 Athanasios

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 11:35 PM

NAC, Rala (lipoic acid), and garlic are sulfur compounds that boost glutathione, a powerful intracellular antioxidant. Since I am taking Rala already, I was questioning if I needed NAC. I decided to add garlic because it seems to have some beneficial effects I wanted while also having the effect of boosting glutathione. NAC may have some specific effects that I cannot get with either garlic or Rala, so it was definitely worth dropping night time Rala for it (as well as it being much cheaper). The use of Rala, instead of NAC exclusively, and the addition of garlic and NAC is a balancing act I am doing which is based solely on opinion from weighing the research and my individual needs.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:39 AM.


#20 Athanasios

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 07:54 PM

I upped my vit D to 2600iu and dropped the blueberry/pom supp to taking it twice a week. The blueberry/pom was lowering my diastolic too low, when taking it every day.

Edit: Actually, I am just going to drop garlic for a while and go from there (as it looks like it is more likely the culprit).

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:40 AM.


#21 health_nutty

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:17 PM

I upped my vit D to 2600iu and dropped the blueberry/pom supp to taking it twice a week. The blueberry/pom was lowering my diastolic too low, when taking it every day.


Interesting.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:41 AM.


#22 Karomesis

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 11:55 PM

[huh] how low? mine has run in the 40's at times and the only side effect is cold extremeties following my vigorous workouts.

BTW, Athan, your avatar scares my kids when they see it, could you please change it immediatly? [lol] [tung]

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:44 AM.


#23 Athanasios

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 12:38 AM

  how low? mine has run in the 40's at times and the only side effect is cold extremeties following my vigorous workouts.

It is in the 50s....I have recently added both garlic and pom. I just dont want it to drop too fast. Last thing I need is a heart attack.

My roommate's solution was to drink a beer and smoke a cigarette, but that is his solution to everything, haha.


Re: Avatar,
hahahha, i know it is ridiculous...that is why I used it....I may change again soon, we will see.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:46 AM.


#24 Athanasios

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:54 PM

Tweaked a few things.

Went with Propionyl L -Carnitine in the mornings when I do physical labor and ALCAR with Ortho-Mind for schoolin
Cut dose of Rala and NAC, Rala only when I am taking Carnitines, and 300mg NAC at night
Added Ginko
Dropped Piracetam and Choline for OrthoMind after Pete had fluke shipment that left me with free OrthoMind
Hmmm, I think thats it.

#25 health_nutty

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 09:48 PM

Thanks for the update. Did you ever identify what was causing your BP to go so low?

#26 Athanasios

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:31 PM

I am sure it is a combination of things, but i decided to see if quitting the garlic would work. It did. I am much more consistently at 100/60 to 110/65 now, a range I am happier with. If increased exercise brings me lower, so be it, as long as I dont get any side-effects.

#27 Athanasios

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 09:36 PM

Astaxanthin

Peer Pressure [tung]

#28 zoolander

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 01:23 PM

sheep
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#29 Athanasios

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Posted 15 April 2007 - 02:36 PM

HAHAHA

yeah, it might have helped a rat somewhere too.

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:49 AM.


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#30 Athanasios

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:04 AM

I'm leaning in the adaptogenic direction. I haven't started any nootopics yet but I'm considering starting out with Ashwaghanda and Rhodiola then adding in Piracetam and Vinpo slowly.

What effect have you seem from that stack - not only nootropic/cog way but also stress, energy, and overall health.

You seem to like the adaptogens - I've been looking at your supplement regime in the subforum. Thanks


I have had wonderful results, but what are they due to? According to the research, the noots and adaptogens (rhod and ash) that I take should help me out quite a bit in all three/four of those areas. Is the melatonin and fish oil pulling a bunch of weight?

I think it is especially important to follow the research instead of how you feel immediately after taking it. By all means, if you feel an adverse effect, quit right away, because there are many other options. In the article below, bacopa had terrible efficacy rate in short term studies testing for cognition improvements, but in long-term studies it showed significant benefit. In the +4 to +6 months timeframe, it is really hard to tell any difference in mental state, so it would be better to trust the research. Since they are good for all the things you mentioned above, if one for some reason doesnt help MY cognition, at least it is doing something else healthy.

I tried Vinpo, but i had adverse effects on it. It made me wired, and I felt too 'one tracked', if that makes sense. I felt that my quality of life would be negatively affected by it so i dropped it. I was taking piracetram, and it seemed to do well for me. Was it the choline? Placebo? who knows...I ended up dropping it because it was only for cognition, where I could use something else that was also good in other areas as well.

My advice would be to play with what has been shown safe and useful, and stay within the studied dose ranges. Out of those, use the ones that both show the most efficacy and that affect your quality life for the better. There are quite a few to choose from.

A good habit is any claim you hear in articles that you think are noteworthy, should be looked up from the reference given. That way you can see if the source was a bit shady, or if they stretched a bit to make an extraordinary claim.

Hope that rambling helped!

Edited by Athanasios, 21 June 2010 - 12:51 AM.





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