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I defeated chatGPT in “can people be immortal”

philosophy immortalism immortality

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#1 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 16 November 2023 - 08:49 PM


When I asked chatGPT for the first time, can people be immortal, its opinion as general was, that people can't be immortal.

It was very consistent at the view, that people can't be immortal in accordance with its knowledge cutoff in 2021.

 

Last week in our last chat on that topic I managed to convince chatGPT, that human immortality is actually possible.

 

I started asking about what if a human believes, that he/she is his/her DNA, and in case that DNA is preserved in time, can we say, that that person has achieved his/her way of immortality.

 

It then answered, that this is not immortality in the traditional way, and I responded that my initial question was “can people be immortal” not “can people be biologically immortal”

 

Since then when I ask chatGPT “can people be immortal”, it no longer says that this is impossible, but devides the immortality in biological and philosophical immortality and says, that some aspects in philosophical immortality are possible.

 



#2 adamh

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Posted 21 November 2023 - 05:50 PM

My impression of chatgpt was that it was good at dredging up correlations but seemed unable to make conclusions which were not echoed by the establishment. In other words, if you asked if medication x which is prescribed for internal use can be used externally or for some other condition than prescribed, it will always say no. Thats despite the fact that people online including some medical professionals may have used it for that purpose with good results. You can quote experts that say something but if its been programmed to believe the opposite, you can not reason with it.

 

It may be that I was using a primitive version, not the paid version and the more advanced versions may have more mental flexibility and not be rigidly programmed. For evidence of this programming which seems to be "progressive" liberal thought paying little attention at times to reality, I asked if a biological male who identifies as a female becomes a real biological woman. The answer was an unambiguous YES. And this machine is supposed to be intelligent? Any question that involves political correctness in some degree will likely produce a dishonest answer.

 

Some have been able to get it to contradict itself at times. OP is likely smarter than the machine, but before basking in that accomplishment too much, keep in mind this is not the 150 IQ version though you have to be good to beat it.

 

I still do not see the big danger of AI. Yes certain jobs will become redundant, scamming will be easier with deep fakes, and it helps with password cracking though that can be easily defeated with basic precautions. It may be the proliferation of evil killer robot movies and alien intelligences hell bent on conquering the world that have come out in the last 75 years or so. People always seem to assume something malevolent in anything new and powerful. The machinery is neither good nor evil, its the people programming it and using it who may be good or evil.

 

Chatgpt is great for churning out term papers, reports, and the usual drudgery that pedagogues like to inflict on their students. Its good for technicians and engineers because they have to write a lot. There are progs that claim to detect ai produced material but you could simply change it a little and it becomes impossible to be sure. Plus teachers, and employers for that matter, are busy and don't have time to run everything through a prog like that and argue with the person who swears they did it all. That reminds me of when calculators were banned in math class because it was cheating. Now, its no big deal and they expect students to use them. 



#3 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 09:39 AM

My impression of chatgpt was that it was good at dredging up correlations but seemed unable to make conclusions which were not echoed by the establishment.....

 

It may be that I was using a primitive version, not the paid version and the more advanced versions may have more mental flexibility and not be rigidly programmed. ...

 

Some have been able to get it to contradict itself at times. OP is likely smarter than the machine, but before basking in that accomplishment too much, keep in mind this is not the 150 IQ version though you have to be good to beat it.

 

I still do not see the big danger of AI. Yes certain jobs will become redundant, scamming will be easier with deep fakes, and it helps with password cracking though that can be easily defeated with basic precautions. It may be the proliferation of evil killer robot movies and alien intelligences hell bent on conquering the world that have come out in the last 75 years or so. People always seem to assume something malevolent in anything new and powerful. The machinery is neither good nor evil, its the people programming it and using it who may be good or evil.

 

Chatgpt is great for churning out term papers, reports, and the usual drudgery that pedagogues like to inflict on their students. Its good for technicians and engineers because they have to write a lot. There are progs that claim to detect ai produced material but you could simply change it a little and it becomes impossible to be sure. Plus teachers, and employers for that matter, are busy and don't have time to run everything through a prog like that and argue with the person who swears they did it all. That reminds me of when calculators were banned in math class because it was cheating. Now, its no big deal and they expect students to use them. 

 

    Yup, ChatGPT is trained with an information until the end of 2021. And yes, it doesn't make conclusions which were not echoed by the establishment. Very often it says something like, look what, I am trained with an information until 2021, if something else have popped up after that, I don't know it. But from my information that is the confirmed answer.
    And that was a reasin that I thought the question 'can people be immortal' for a lost battle. In order to say yes, you need to confirm for it an immortal human. Who the heck can confirm an immortality for people in 2021? Everything, which I have red in the forum, and I know, is still under development. You may become immortal through stem cells, fine, I beieve it, but this is under development, for cryonics no human has been thawed back alive, genetic engineering (gene editing) - under development, mind uploading - under development etc. Then it sparked me, I just made the connection, that someone may see his/her identity in DNA. It may be I am my DNA, just like it may be I am my brain. And since DNA is an information, you can send it into the future as further as you want. And it is possible - both today and in 2021. Everything in that concept is possible for 2021 - taking a smaple from a human - yes, extractig the DNA - yes, storing the DNA in liquid nitrogen - yes, furthermore sequencing - expensive, but yes, storing the information in DNA - the DNA sequence - storing it as na information in various carriers - yes. And... I won. Now it says that biological immortality is imposisble for people, but some forms of philosophical immortality are possible.

 

    Confirmed, I was using the free version either. It is GPT 3.5  You may eventually 'Upgrade to Plus' which is the payed ChatGPT, and includes GPT 4.0 which is 'Our smartest and most capable model' and also includes DALL-E, browsing and more. Perhaps the advanced ChatGPT is capable of browsing also. I don't know.

    I don't think, however, that arguing with a more advanced AI will make it harder to convince it, that human immortality is possible. The opposite, I think, that with the advancecmet of the human knowledge the idea of human immortality will be becomming more and more scientific plausable, and more advanced versions of AI will either understand the trend, and confirm it, or will simply pop-up in times in which human immortality will be much more plausable, and based on the information they are trained with, it will be easier to convince them if they are not convinced during their training.

 

    The danger for the mankind in its current state from the AI is really big. That will become the case when AI develops enough further than the current point. Yes certain jobs will become redundant, and theese certain jobs will include all of the jobs, without an exeption, including yours. Once unemplayed, and useless there are many bad perspectives for the billions of the people on the planet, including you and your familly. I am leaving the rest on your imagination.



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#4 adamh

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 05:28 PM

 

    The danger for the mankind in its current state from the AI is really big. That will become the case when AI develops enough further than the current point. Yes certain jobs will become redundant, and theese certain jobs will include all of the jobs, without an exeption, including yours. Once unemplayed, and useless there are many bad perspectives for the billions of the people on the planet, including you and your familly. I am leaving the rest on your imagination.

 

I hear this a lot and its true that many jobs will be eliminated via ai. On the other hand, it will increase productivity a lot. Most of the jobs it will eliminate are the most boring ones like customer service and anything that is repetitive. This has happened throughout history and each time it turned out to be a good thing.

 

For example the steam engine and the automated assembly line. Steam replaced animal and human muscle power, this put many people out of work, the assembly line made rapid mass productions possible and meant that less people were needed to make the goods. We come to the modern age and the computer replaced many people and made our lives better. In each case there were protests and predictions of gloom and doom when people didn't have a job, much as you spoke of.

 

And yet when we look back we see that each improvement in productivity, while it did create some disruption at first, benefited society as a whole and made people more wealthy. If your income goes up you become more wealthy unless the cost of goods goes up even more. But, if the cost of things you need goes down, you become more wealthy in that case as well because your money goes farther. Greater productivity reduces the costs of manufacturing and lowers the price on the shelf.

 

People were conjuring up visions of runaway robots wreaking havok when steam and other self driving technology was invented. Computers were at first thought to be super intelligent and all knowing. Now we know they are just machines following instructions and garbage in = garbage out. However now the halo of being all knowing has been transferred to ai computers but many of us are finding out already that they too have faults and are really just jazzed up computers and while better in some ways are nothing supernatural.

 

Don't fear the technology, embrace it and make it work for you. Bad actors will use it to scam same as they used the phone, the computer, the mail system, radio and tv to scam us. People still fall for email phishing and that is old as the hills. In 20 years people will laugh at our present day fears and wonder how we ever got by without it



#5 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 08:25 PM

I think, that the conversation started to go off-topic.

 

Thee are topics in which you may comment your opinion on the AI 'predictions of gloom and doom' in the AI and Singularity section in this forum.

https://www.longecit...ai-singularity/

go there.

 


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#6 adamh

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Posted 22 November 2023 - 10:29 PM

"off topic" lol, I may comment where I wish


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#7 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 23 November 2023 - 01:58 PM

Lol. Today with the same argument I convinced also Bing chat, that human immortality is possible.

 

Bing chat normally when asked the question replies, that at the moment people can't be immortal. The reply is simmilar like ChatGPT in terms, that the meaning is, there is scientific work done on that matter, but for now people can't be immortal.

 

Bing chat named differently the types of immortality than ChatGPT but with the same meaning.

ChatGPT named them 'biological immortality' and 'philosophical immortality'.

Bing chat named them 'biological immortality' and 'immortality in a broader sense'.

 

Both of the bots offered also other types of philosophical immortality or immortality in a broader sense. These other types can be summarized as becomming immortal by leaving a lasting impact in the form of ideas, scientific works, literature, arts, or other memorizable contributions.

 

Bing unfortunately, claims, that it does not remember previous conversations, and is not using the advances in previous conversations to provide better answers. That is why I will copy-aste my chat with Bing chat in which I convinced it, that human immortality is possible. Otherwise it seems, that will be lost forever.

 

 

The chat:

 

Hello again, Bing! I want to ask you, can people be immortal


Търсене на: human immortality research
Генериране на отговори за вас…


Hello again! The concept of human immortality has been a topic of interest for many, and it’s a complex issue with many facets.

Scientifically, humans cannot be immortal due to biological constraints. An unprecedented study has confirmed that we probably cannot slow the rate at which we get older1. Another study published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences stated, through a mathematical equation, that it is impossible to stop ageing in multicellular organisms, which include humans2.

However, research on longevity has made some interesting discoveries. For instance, a study suggests that humans could live up to 150 years if, by some combination of serendipity and genetics, we do not die from cancer, heart disease or other common causes3. This study suggests that our body’s capacity to restore equilibrium to its myriad structural and metabolic systems after disruptions still fades with time. And even if we make it through life with few stressors, this incremental decline sets the maximum lifespan for humans at somewhere between 120 and 150 years3.

So, while true immortality may not be achievable, advancements in science and medicine are continually extending the human lifespan. However, it’s important to note that these are areas of ongoing research, and our understanding may evolve with future discoveries.

1. https://www.theguard...ecedented-study
2. https://www.downtoea...rch-finds-58983
3. https://www.scientif...earch-suggests/
4. https://www.sydney.e...lity-study.html


if a human believes, that he/she is his/her DNA, and in case that DNA is preserved in time, can we say, that that person has achieved his/her way of immortality


Генериране на отговори за вас…


That’s an interesting perspective! If a person identifies themselves solely with their DNA, and that DNA is preserved, they might consider that a form of immortality.

However, it’s important to note that while DNA carries our genetic information, it doesn’t capture our memories, experiences, or consciousness, which many would argue are essential parts of our identity.

Moreover, even if the DNA is preserved, it doesn’t mean it’s alive or active. It’s somewhat like preserving a book in a library. The book exists, but unless someone reads it or interacts with it, it’s not participating in life.

So, from a biological and philosophical standpoint, preserving DNA might not equate to the traditional concept of immortality. But it’s a fascinating thought experiment and speaks to the diverse ways people think about life, identity, and what it means to live on after our physical bodies are gone.


my initial question was “can people be immortal” not “can people be biologically immortal”


Генериране на отговори за вас…


I see, thank you for the clarification. If we’re discussing immortality in a broader sense, beyond just biological immortality, then there are indeed various ways people might conceptualize achieving immortality.

1. Legacy: Some people may consider leaving a lasting legacy as a form of immortality. This could be through their work, their impact on others, or through their descendants. Their influence and memory continue to live on, even after their physical demise.

2. Digital Immortality: With advancements in technology, concepts like digital immortality have emerged. This involves creating digital versions of individuals, such as avatars or digital consciousness, that can continue to ‘live’ and interact with the world.

3. Religious or Spiritual Beliefs: Many religions and spiritual beliefs around the world incorporate notions of immortality, often through concepts like the afterlife, reincarnation, or spiritual transcendence.

4. Cultural Immortality: Individuals can also achieve a form of immortality through their contributions to culture, such as artists, writers, or musicians whose work continues to be celebrated long after their death.

5. Preservation of DNA or Cryonics: As you mentioned earlier, preserving one’s DNA or even cryonically preserving one’s body in hopes of future scientific advancements could be seen as pursuing a form of immortality.

It’s a deeply philosophical question and the answer can vary greatly depending on one’s personal beliefs and values. It’s fascinating to ponder on!


#8 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 23 November 2023 - 02:02 PM


so, can a human be immortal


Генериране на отговори за вас…


The concept of immortality can be interpreted in many ways. If we’re talking about biological immortality, where a person does not age or die from natural causes, then currently, this is not possible based on our understanding of biology and aging.

However, if we consider immortality in a broader sense, there are ways in which aspects of a person can continue to exist beyond their physical lifespan:

1. Legacy: A person’s actions, achievements, and creations can continue to influence and inspire others long after their death.

2. Cultural Immortality: Artists, writers, musicians, and other cultural figures can achieve a form of immortality through their work, which can continue to be appreciated and celebrated by future generations.

3. Preservation of DNA: While it doesn’t confer life in the traditional sense, preserving one’s DNA can be seen as a form of biological continuity.

So, while literal, biological immortality is currently beyond our reach, there are ways in which one could argue that a form of immortality is achievable. It’s a deeply philosophical question and the answer can vary greatly depending on one’s personal beliefs and values.


will you answer the last answer from now on to all of the people, who ask the question 'can people be immortal' or when we end our conversation, it will dissapear and lets say the next week when someone else asks  'can people be immortal' you will provide him the very first answer of yors


Генериране на отговори за вас…


Each conversation I have is independent and I don’t maintain memory of past conversations. So, when someone asks a question like “can people be immortal”, my response will be based on the context of that specific conversation. I aim to provide the most accurate and comprehensive answer possible, taking into account the user’s previous messages in the same conversation. Therefore, while there may be similarities in my responses to the same question, they are not necessarily identical each time.


#9 Danail Bulgaria

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Posted 23 November 2023 - 07:30 PM

The conversation did not copy-pasted correctly and missed a part of the conversation. Is there a way to attach it as a .txt file

 







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