32 replies to this topic

[cbqcbqxx]

Hello everyone, there are now many research teams and organizations around the world working on human reverse aging, but according to publicly available information, none of them have made a single key technological breakthrough so far.

There are still a few research organizations that have come up with some life-extension products that may have some effect, such as stem cell-assisted therapy, as well as a variety of drugs to enhance the activity of telomerase, but it is estimated that the general maximum extension of a number of years of life expectancy, the final effect may not be as good as those high-quality natural foods and reasonable health care methods.

We all know: once the human body into the old age, the quality of existence declined dramatically, disease and pain, the poor quality of existence in later life many people can not stand or even suicide, so let the human body permanently young is the ultimate life extension goal.

In summary, is the current direction of our research on Reverse Aging all wrong? what kind of technology can realize permanent youth? What is the truly promising eternal life program? Everyone is welcome to discuss it.

 

[Mind]

Your perception is mostly correct.

 

I have been asking this as well. I got into the advocacy arena for rejuvenation over 20 years ago. I have been working hard toward the goal for over 20 years and yet there is no proven treatment available. There is nothing available the can reliably reverse aging - no large trials that have confirmed any treatment.

 

This is a bit depressing. Each time some researchers claim a breakthrough, a few years later it turns out it was not a real breakthrough, or the researchers say "the process is more complex than we thought".

 

Even prior to my activism, there were "breakthroughs" in prior decades, mostly revolving around vitamins/hormones/genetics. None of them worked out as rejuvenation treatments.

 

Biohackers, many of whom post in this forum, have gotten some interesting results with things like GDF11, TPE, and such things. They seem to have reduced their biological age according to some measurements/metrics, however, none of them look younger. They all still have wrinkles, grey hair, baldness, etc.

 

All we have that is well proven to keep a person healthy into old age is diet, exercise, quality sleep, low stress, meditation, and fasting. These are powerful interventions but mostly just slow down aging.

 

Even though there is a lot more investment in rejuvenation nowadays, I don't see anything emerging into the marketplace for the next couple of years.

 

Even with AI being leveraged toward finding solutions to aging, progress is agonizingly slow.

[johnhemming]

I think you are right that the cosmetics actually matter.  If someone improving health cannot as a byproduct have an effect on cosmetics then they are probably not hitting key agingpathways.   I am working on two pathways one of which is acetyl-CoA levels and transcription efficiency, the other is mitochondrial efficiency leading to translation efficiency.

 

I think I am making progress and have seem cosmetic changes, but they are relatively slow (things like improving facial pore quality and a small and gradual amount of reversing balding) and not that easy to see in pictures.  Hence it will be difficult to persuade people until more progress has been made.  The biomarkers have shifted quite a bit, but without the cosmetics it will be hard to persuade people.

[didierc]

Sadly I agree with Mind. Senescence is incredibly difficult to slow down. Not only for human beings, for all mammals (except maybe the naked-mole rat). Let's imagine that you give 100 million dollars to each of the 20 best longevity scientists in the world. You give to each 50 mice aged 18 months and you ask to keep them alive as long as possible, In three years, all animals will be death (except if there is a breakthrough not know today).  

[Hip]

People do not usually deteriorate and die due to ageing per se, but due to developing one or more chronic diseases. The human species is blighted by chronic illnesses such as dementia, heart diseases, atherosclerosis, diabetes, arthritis, hypothyroidism, high blood pressure, neurological illnesses, autoimmune diseases, cancers, etc. 

 

Therefore to extend lifespan and healthspan, we really need to focus on the causes of chronic disease, and address those causes, so that we can live our lives without suffering a nasty chronic illness. At present, the causes for most chronic diseases are not known. So there needs to be much more research.  

[johnhemming]

My view is that most if not all of the diseases of aging are caused by the cells not producing the right proteins because of either metabolic problems at the transcription stage or at the translation stage.

[Hip]

My view is that most if not all of the diseases of aging are caused by the cells not producing the right proteins because of either metabolic problems at the transcription stage or at the translation stage.

 

I subscribe to Prof Paul Ewald's view: that most chronic diseases and cancers of currently unknown cause will turn out to be cause by infectious pathogens living in our tissues. We are seeing more and more chronic diseases being linked to an ongoing low-level viral or bacterial infection in the body tissues. 

[johnhemming]

The "inflammation" people refer to as inflammaging is the result of SASP and Interleukin-10 which is notionally anti-inflammatory, but reduces the expression of the citrate carrier in the mitochondria.

 

However, there is no reason why we must agree as to what the cause of the aging phenotype is.  I can get on with my mitigation strategies and others can use theirs and we can compare results.

[cbqcbqxx]

Your perception is mostly correct.

 

I have been asking this as well. I got into the advocacy arena for rejuvenation over 20 years ago. I have been working hard toward the goal for over 20 years and yet there is no proven treatment available. There is nothing available the can reliably reverse aging - no large trials that have confirmed any treatment.

 

This is a bit depressing. Each time some researchers claim a breakthrough, a few years later it turns out it was not a real breakthrough, or the researchers say "the process is more complex than we thought".

 

Even prior to my activism, there were "breakthroughs" in prior decades, mostly revolving around vitamins/hormones/genetics. None of them worked out as rejuvenation treatments.

 

Biohackers, many of whom post in this forum, have gotten some interesting results with things like GDF11, TPE, and such things. They seem to have reduced their biological age according to some measurements/metrics, however, none of them look younger. They all still have wrinkles, grey hair, baldness, etc.

 

All we have that is well proven to keep a person healthy into old age is diet, exercise, quality sleep, low stress, meditation, and fasting. These are powerful interventions but mostly just slow down aging.

 

Even though there is a lot more investment in rejuvenation nowadays, I don't see anything emerging into the marketplace for the next couple of years.

 

Even with AI being leveraged toward finding solutions to aging, progress is agonizingly slow.

 

I do agree with your comment. Scientists have probably gone astray in their quest to slow down the aging process with conventional thinking.

 

I have also researched many possible technological directions for slowing down aging, and I may have found the ultimate solution: "complete human cloning" coupled with "transfer of consciousness". Which simply means that the already realized technology of animal cloning can be improved by cloning the healthy body of a young human being and then transferring the personality and consciousness of the old body into the new body. Doesn't this technology seem very sci-fi when you've only seen it in the movies?

 

Advantages of this technological solution: human beings will finally be able to overcome any type of fatal disease, as well as get rid of the deterioration of physiological functions and eventual death caused by aging of the human body, and even theoretically, human beings do not have a limit to their life span (many times to replace the young body), so this should be the most perfect solution for human beings to slow down the aging process.

 

Cloning technology seems relatively easy, only need to solve the social and ethical issues, as well as to overcome the new cells of the aging cycle has not been reset; but the consciousness transfer looks difficult, because mankind so far has not figured out what the consciousness (personality) actually is, want to achieve within this century looks difficult, unless to find targeted technology.

 

 

[Rocket]

Look how long it took Rogaine took become available after it was discovered to grow hair. I think it was decades. Why? Government.

[HBRU]

I subscribe to Prof Paul Ewald's view: that most chronic diseases and cancers of currently unknown cause will turn out to be cause by infectious pathogens living in our tissues. We are seeing more and more chronic diseases being linked to an ongoing low-level viral or bacterial infection in the body tissues. 

 

we are literally made of viruses and bacteria.... see L1, transposons and such + mitocondria + bacteria in the intestine.... and yes there also patogenes like epstain barr virus, herpes virus and such that are disturbing us constantly...

[HBRU]

My view is that most if not all of the diseases of aging are caused by the cells not producing the right proteins because of either metabolic problems at the transcription stage or at the translation stage.

 

it seems there is a selection of egoistical cells and stem cells that survive over the others, as the other spending more for the others tend to die more... As said the most egoistic ones survive: cells that wants to survive and internally keep "good" but doesnt want to collaborate with the others by producing the proteins the rest of the body needs....

 

This kind of egoistic cells also loose differentiation... and become more stem-cell-like... 

[Hip]

we are literally made of viruses and bacteria.... see L1, transposons and such + mitocondria + bacteria in the intestine.... and yes there also patogenes like epstain barr virus, herpes virus and such that are disturbing us constantly...

 

Yes, as much as 10% of the human genome consists of the remnants of ancient viruses. In most cases, these remnants perform vital and beneficial roles. Although in some cases these remnants can reactivate as viruses, and cause harm (see human endogenous retroviruses). These HERVs have been linked to several diseases. 

 

But most diseases are linked to exogenous viruses, like as you say herpesvirus family viruses such as EBV, HHV-6, cytomegalovirus, as well as enterovirus genus viruses like coxsackievirus B and echovirus. See the article list of chronic diseases linked to infectious pathogens. 

[Rocket]

Your perception is mostly correct.

I have been asking this as well. I got into the advocacy arena for rejuvenation over 20 years ago. I have been working hard toward the goal for over 20 years and yet there is no proven treatment available. There is nothing available the can reliably reverse aging - no large trials that have confirmed any treatment.

This is a bit depressing. Each time some researchers claim a breakthrough, a few years later it turns out it was not a real breakthrough, or the researchers say "the process is more complex than we thought".

Even prior to my activism, there were "breakthroughs" in prior decades, mostly revolving around vitamins/hormones/genetics. None of them worked out as rejuvenation treatments.

Biohackers, many of whom post in this forum, have gotten some interesting results with things like GDF11, TPE, and such things. They seem to have reduced their biological age according to some measurements/metrics, however, none of them look younger. They all still have wrinkles, grey hair, baldness, etc.

All we have that is well proven to keep a person healthy into old age is diet, exercise, quality sleep, low stress, meditation, and fasting. These are powerful interventions but mostly just slow down aging.

Even though there is a lot more investment in rejuvenation nowadays, I don't see anything emerging into the marketplace for the next couple of years.

Even with AI being leveraged toward finding solutions to aging, progress is agonizingly slow.

Aging research is probably so slow because everything worthwhile is suppressed. I can tell you that for a fact.

[QuestforLife]

Rather than getting into discussions over what is causing aging, we should focus on the question: why is aging research so slow?

 

One angle that I haven't seen discussed elsewhere is the problem with relying on academia. They are not setup to solve problems like aging,they are setup to publish papers. I note with interest that Aubrey de Grey has recently switched from funding academics to practical interventions (on mice) using promising treatments. 

 

Bill Andrews is a bench scientist (unlike Aubrey) and unlike academia is focused on practically curing aging. But he can't get the funding to do his work. As has been diagnosed by others before me, there is a funding valley between unfocused academic research and the business investment needed to find and implement practical solutions.

 

I do agree with others on this thread that have commented that cosmetic solutions are important. There are many biomarkers that appear to show rejuvenation, but they don't have a noticeable effect cosmetically, so they are unlikely to have any lifespan benefit either (IMO).      

 

[johnhemming]

I am doing my own research.  Luckily I can fund the costs myself.   I think in the end it is the scientific conversation that is key.  Sadly most people are uninterested in that and as far as I am personally concerned I don't need to persuade people to give me money so I don't put a lot of effort into lobbying.

[freddie]

I think we have to understand what kind of problem solving model is specifically actually working for understanding/discovering of the actual cause of aging and finding/creating the actual solution to aging. We are 8 billion people and banks are printing endless money.We don't have lack of minerals or other compounds either, our Earth is rich in natural resources. We, as Earth, don't have money or manpower problem, we have a problem solving organizational problem. We need the best professors of problem solving to setup an actually correct problem solving science model for the eternal youth-explorers/pioneers, which is super speedy and super efficient. It's like building a skyscraper, the builders have to be correctly organized.

Edited by freddie, 15 February 2024 - 06:31 AM.

[QuestforLife]

Are you sure we don't have money or manpower limitations?

The largest ever generation, the boomers, are aging into retirement and taking their money with them. Similarly the rich Western nations that drove innovation in the past are aging and their (native) population is shrinking. Academia is driven mainly by financial obligations not the discovery of truth. The planet is being strip mined. Whilst globalised supply chains are starting to fail.

I see this very much as a problem that needs to be solved soon, or it may not be solved at all. We probably have made enough headway on the molecular mechanisms. But we don't have an agreed cause (neglect vs. Programmed), probably due to a incomplete view of evolution. Hence we don't really understand from an organism level what the deterioration process is. We also don't have a testing regime for looking at what treatments actually help people (outside of small trials done in places like longecity).

You can see from all this why a small but effective innovation hub, like Aubrey is planning (on an island, say), might be the way to go.

[Mind]

Are you sure we don't have money or manpower limitations?

The largest ever generation, the boomers, are aging into retirement and taking their money with them. Similarly the rich Western nations that drove innovation in the past are aging and their (native) population is shrinking. Academia is driven mainly by financial obligations not the discovery of truth. The planet is being strip mined. Whilst globalised supply chains are starting to fail.

I see this very much as a problem that needs to be solved soon, or it may not be solved at all. We probably have made enough headway on the molecular mechanisms. But we don't have an agreed cause (neglect vs. Programmed), probably due to a incomplete view of evolution. Hence we don't really understand from an organism level what the deterioration process is. We also don't have a testing regime for looking at what treatments actually help people (outside of small trials done in places like longecity).

You can see from all this why a small but effective innovation hub, like Aubrey is planning (on an island, say), might be the way to go.

 

 

This is a good point. A lot of boomers (not all, of course) could be funding rejuvenation treatments that benefit themselves and society at large, but instead use it on eating at fancy restaurants, taking trips, building big mansions. Seems like funding health and rejuvenation research would be much more valuable and rewarding.

 

Also, in the past I didn't believe rejuvenation treatments were being intentionally suppressed, but now I am not sure. It is probably a combination of intentionally suppression, bureaucratic hurdles, and economics (it is more profitable to sell drugs that are just band-aids, not real cures).

[QuestforLife]

This is a good point. A lot of boomers (not all, of course) could be funding rejuvenation treatments that benefit themselves and society at large, but instead use it on eating at fancy restaurants, taking trips, building big mansions. Seems like funding health and rejuvenation research would be much more valuable and rewarding.

 

Also, in the past I didn't believe rejuvenation treatments were being intentionally suppressed, but now I am not sure. It is probably a combination of intentionally suppression, bureaucratic hurdles, and economics (it is more profitable to sell drugs that are just band-aids, not real cures).

 

 If you were selling an investment to a group of rich but old boomers who'd want results in < 5 years, what would you say? Invest in human or dog trials of rapamycin that maybe can give you calorie restrictions benefits? Or invest in blood plasma exchange that made one rat live much longer? Or maybe more realistically telomerase gene therapy that has a million years of regulatory hurdles ahead of it? Or in senolytics that has failed every human trial? Face it, we don't have anything that we could sell to rich, normie (not knowledgeable in aging mechanisms) boomers.

 

Maybe the X-Prize will stimulate real testing of practical interventions and if that gives us something actionable we can go back to the boomers. But I am guessing unless that happens very, very soon, we'll have missed that (money) boat.

 

This goes back to the title of this thread, why is the research so slow? Perhaps the correct answer is that research has given us many interesting avenues, but now it is time for more practically minded people to do the applied research and pull-through the required treatments. Academia has shown many times it can't do this. What we need is an engineering type of company to drive the innovation (IMO). 

Edited by QuestforLife, 21 February 2024 - 12:24 PM.

[Mind]

 If you were selling an investment to a group of rich but old boomers who'd want results in < 5 years, what would you say? Invest in human or dog trials of rapamycin that maybe can give you calorie restrictions benefits? Or invest in blood plasma exchange that made one rat live much longer? Or maybe more realistically telomerase gene therapy that has a million years of regulatory hurdles ahead of it? Or in senolytics that has failed every human trial? Face it, we don't have anything that we could sell to rich, normie (not knowledgeable in aging mechanisms) boomers.

 

Maybe the X-Prize will stimulate real testing of practical interventions and if that gives us something actionable we can go back to the boomers. But I am guessing unless that happens very, very soon, we'll have missed that (money) boat.

 

This goes back to the title of this thread, why is the research so slow? Perhaps the correct answer is that research has given us many interesting avenues, but now it is time for more practically minded people to do the applied research and pull-through the required treatments. Academia has shown many times it can't do this. What we need is an engineering type of company to drive the innovation (IMO). 

 

I hate to take this off topic but which human senolytics trials failed? The Mayo clinic study has not published yet as far as I am aware.

[QuestforLife]

I hate to take this off topic but which human senolytics trials failed? The Mayo clinic study has not published yet as far as I am aware.

The Unity Biotec trials failed.

https://longevity.te...trial-fail/amp/

[Mind]

The Unity Biotec trials failed.

https://longevity.te...trial-fail/amp/

 

Sadly, I know about that one because I invested in Unity, however, many people thought that one was doomed to fail because of the design - something I agree with.

[Rocket]

I hate to take this off topic but which human senolytics trials failed? The Mayo clinic study has not published yet as far as I am aware.

Dasatanib was fantastic. And then Team TLR went belly up and you can't buy it anymore

[QuestforLife]

Dasatanib was fantastic. And then Team TLR went belly up and you can't buy it anymore

 

Did you report your results elsewhere, Rocket? I've always been cautious of using senolytics in case I depleted some important stem cell pool, but I am always interested in positive reports.

[adamh]

No one has mentioned the new technology that reverses a cell's age. They can turn skin or other cells into stem cells if they let the process go to that stage. Or they can reverse a little, the cell becomes younger but retains its identity. If we could do that for the whole body without causing cancer or other problems, that would be immortality

 

Cosmetic results are just cosmetic and that seems to be the aim rather than actual improvement at least for many people. If a treatment improved health so much that it showed in less wrinkles or whatnot, that would be fine but a pretty face is not the goal

 

https://www.science....ells-stem-cells

[QuestforLife]

Yamanaka factors for reprogramming were discovered in 2006. (1)

The classic paper on partial reprogramming was published in 2016. (2)

Conditional reprogramming using Rock inhibitors has been a topic of interest since atleast 2012. (3)

My thread (on telomeres) has followed the developments in conditional reprogramming for many years. There is a whole thread on this site devoted to partial reprogramming.

So your post AdamH doesn't answer why research into reversing ageing so slow.

You say that if this works on the whole body then this is immortality. Recently epigenetic age reversal has been demonstrated using a youthful blood plasma fraction(4), but thus far this has not resulted in significant increases in lifespan (see various reports from Harold katcher and elsewhere). We await further results...


(1) https://www.nobelpri...yamanaka/facts/
(2) https://www.cell.com...8674(16)31664-6
(3) https://ajp.amjpatho...1059-5/fulltext
(4) :text=Plasma%20fraction%20treatment%20has%20not,multi-tissue%20and%20blood%20clocks' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>https://link.springe...nd blood clocks.

[johnhemming]

A question here is when research for the fountain of life started.

 

It has been going on for a long time.

 

Incidentally, however, I do think I have made some progress with my own research.

 

Edited by johnhemming, 30 March 2024 - 12:13 PM.

[Mind]

There is a lot more talk and investment into biological rejuvenation in the last few years but there has not been a big uptick in actionable therapies...ie, there is nothing in your typical neighborhood hospital or clinic.

 

Some things that seem to work - minimally - are GDF11, TPE, Fecal microbiota transplantation, Bioviva's genetic therapy, and a few more.

 

Otherwise, if you follow Dr. Lustgarten, you can see much more dramatic health improvements by simply getting exercise and eating properly.

[adamh]

Yamanaka factors for reprogramming were discovered in 2006. (1)

The classic paper on partial reprogramming was published in 2016. (2)

Conditional reprogramming using Rock inhibitors has been a topic of interest since atleast 2012. (3)

My thread (on telomeres) has followed the developments in conditional reprogramming for many years. There is a whole thread on this site devoted to partial reprogramming.

So your post AdamH doesn't answer why research into reversing ageing so slow.

You say that if this works on the whole body then this is immortality. Recently epigenetic age reversal has been demonstrated using a youthful blood plasma fraction(4), but thus far this has not resulted in significant increases in lifespan (see various reports from Harold katcher and elsewhere). We await further results...


(1) https://www.nobelpri...yamanaka/facts/
(2) https://www.cell.com...8674(16)31664-6
(3) https://ajp.amjpatho...1059-5/fulltext
(4) https://link.springe...nd blood clocks.

I didn't say its never been discussed in the past, I said this tec was about the only thing that makes such a dramatic age reversal and belongs in this thread. Changing epigenetic markers should produce health benefits but if you can actually rewind it to a younger state, then by definition you have reversed age

 

In a sense, its doing it all at once whereas in the past we have been going at it piecemeal fashion, fixing a little of this and that. I think both approaches are good. One reason progress has been slow is that people have been reluctant to explore new avenues. Do we treat the symptoms of aging or fix it at its core? Yamanaka factors are still not ready and may turn out to be a dead end but isn't it a fascinating possibility?

 

We are tinkering with powerful forces and much like the sorcerers apprentice, we don't want to unleash something that might be great at first but then always leads to cancer after a few years, for example. On the other hand, if we don't explore these new tecs then we will miss out on possibly god like abilities.