219 replies to this topic

[Aegist]

Summary of the Progress So Far
Links:
First Post, idea outline : http://www.imminst.o...=142&t=14681&s=
Actual Flyer Designs Thread : http://www.imminst.o...=142&t=14732&s=

Each of these following topics need to be treated independently so that we can resolve each issue. The major dot points presented in each topic represent alternative options, we need to determine which option makes the most sense, will be the most productive, and will achieve the best results in terms of our objectives (ultimate objective, long term objectives, and narrow objectives of this task). We also need to figure out if the alternative options presented in the major dot pointare mutually exclusive or not, and whether we can take in multiples.

So you robjective, while reading this is to understand each dot point in any given category, decide which ones you think we should avoid, and which ones you think are good, and which ones should be added. Then decide whether any single one of them should be chosen, or whether we can work towards two or three of them all at once. And then of course, add any comments which might help.


Objectives
'The' objective is indefinite lifespan extension. The long term goal is to motivate a huge global movement to support medical research that will ultimately lead to acheiving 'The' objective (through significant increases in funding and interest in research on the topic of longevity). However neither of these will be achieved by this single activity. So what is the objective of this activity?

#Increase ImmInst Traffic
-Introduce people to ImmInst to ask questions and educate themselves.
#Simply broach the topic of longer lifespan to people
-Raise the idea of indefinite lifespans, and direct them to a splash page with more information
-Links to ImmInst and SENS and whatever will still be provided, but not the focus
#Start the process of broaching the topic, without broaching the topic
-Talk about supporting medical advances. Direct to non imminst domain splash page and information resource
-Must sound attractive to everyone, even unhealthy people. Not like a supplement sales company
-Have to be able to soubd like science will soon be able to produce tablets which make you healthier for longer. The idea of feeling 30 when you retire at the age of 70 is appealing to everyone.
#Create worldwide attention
-Be extreme, attract attention. Really scream 'Immortality' into the masses.
-Media will likely pay attention, and a lot of interest will be created. Both positive AND negative.


Target Audiences
Do we want everyone, or specifics? And do we want to target them individually, or treat everyone the same?

#Flyers Content Specific for Flyer location
-More medical jargon for fliers placed in medical areas of University
-Few words, high impact for most other places
-More explanation for locations where people have to stand for a long time and might like to read


Landing Page
I am quite certain we should have a landing page, and depending again on our objectives, what that landing page should consist of needs to be decided.

#Several landing pages, each one designated by the flyer the person responds to
-This allows us to track the sucess of each flyer design, and allows specific content follow through on each flyer

#One landing page fits all
-Flyer directs everyone to single landing page which is designed to bring out more interest in the topic, and then basically act like a portal to more information : ImmInst, SingInst, MPrize, SENS etc.

#Successive Hoops
-Using either one or several landing pages, the first landing page will always contain some information on it, but will ultimately direct the reader to 'more information' OR to a quick survey with 3 options : For, Neutral, Against, and the answers to those questions determine their next landing page.
-This allows us to direct people interested in supporting ImmInst to further participate and add to our community, and direct people who aren't yet sure to a few SOLID resources which allow their questions to be answered (either a better FAQ for ImmInst, or the Dragon Fable etc), while the people against it can be directed to something designed to convert people? I dunno, idea still needs to be flushed out.

#Something practical on the landing page to make the point
-The Death Clock


Flyer Placement
Where to post flyer. Keep adding to this list

#Urinals and Toilet Cubicals
#Telegraph Poles in highly public places, especially where people are forced to stand still (bus stops, traffic lights)
#Community Notice Boards
#Around Universities - Medical area, philosophy area, every other notice board on campus.
#Gyms, Supplement Shops, and if possible, inserted into supplementation/health magazines/newspapers in these venues.

Flyer Design
There will be many options, and I think ultimately we will want to have a variety of options available. Some will be more or less appropriate depending on country, culture, and flyer placement location.

#Minimal
-A few words, a slogan, a warning and a URL.
-Blank, or with eye catching imagery supporting it

#More Informative
-More description and an explanation of what is going on

#Branding
-Create a sense of intrigue by not actually telling them anything. Simply showing the imminst logo to build up brand recognition for a later stage.

#Various Methodologies
-Fear
-Collaboration to work together
-Hope
-Curiosity
-Confusion


Other Points Of Consideration

#Survey - The landing page poll could act as a survey if we want it to, so that we can collect names and email addresses of the willing participants to indicate growing support in the movement

#Do we want ImmInst forums to be flooded with people from ALL backgrounds and opinions? We have a very very impressive colelction of intelligent people here, and blanket marketting to the globe could result in every toim dick and harry from college professors to the psychologically ill to dogmatic fundamentalists, and no doubt lots of people of all sorts of various education levels. Not necessarily bad or good...just needs to be considered and factored in.

#Resistence to 'Immortality' or even 'Lifespan Extension' - It is frightening just how certain people can be that living a longer life is the worst thing they could imagine. How do we circumvent this natural resistence?

[zoolander]

looking good Shane. Nice work!

Just a few comments....

#Create worldwide attention
-Be extreme, attract attention. Really scream 'Immortality' into the masses.
-Media will likely pay attention, and a lot of interest will be created. Both positive AND negative.

For media attention I think we will need to contact various media outlets and hope that they are interested. We need to keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories in the media that might relate to our mission. For example, there might be some media attention on a technique that has been shown to increase the life of Dros flies by 30%. We ride on the back of that by contacting media outlets.

We could also get some good coverage on a high impact weblog.

#Several landing pages, each one designated by the flyer the person responds to
-This allows us to track the sucess of each flyer design, and allows specific content follow through on each flyer

A good idea but wouldn't this require registering more domains? We could have a differnt entry point on the site. For example Immint.org/info = splash page, or Imminst.org/Australia

#Something practical on the landing page to make the point
-The Death Clock

If I were new to the site and I had to enter via a Death Clock I would be turned off. A death clock on the site seems a little corny for a place of such calibre.

Flyer Placement
Where to post flyer. Keep adding to this list

#Urinals and Toilet Cubicals
#Telegraph Poles in highly public places, especially where people are forced to stand still (bus stops, traffic lights)
#Community Notice Boards
#Around Universities - Medical area, philosophy area, every other notice board on campus.
#Gyms, Supplement Shops, and if possible, inserted into supplementation/health magazines/newspapers in these venues.

add these 2.
-Doctor's surgeries. In the Health mags. People usually have to wait a long time to see a doctor and in most situations they are ill i.e feeling the aging process. It's the perfect hook
-place an add in the local seniors paper

#Survey - The landing page poll could act as a survey if we want it to, so that we can collect names and email addresses of the willing participants to indicate growing support in the movement

I plan on having a survey put together by mid year. I've already suggested this to leadership and will most likely bring it up at the next meeting.

You're doing a great job Aegist. Keep it up

[Live Forever]

Good stuff, guys. I am liking the back and forth ideas.

[thumb]

[Aegist]

For media attention I think we will need to contact various media outlets and hope that they are interested. We need to keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories in the media that might relate to our mission. For example, there might be some media attention on a technique that has been shown to increase the life of Dros flies by 30%. We ride on the back of that by contacting media outlets.

Great idea. Unfortunately I was silly enough to miss out on this one:
http://www.sykes.easynet.co.uk/
Although I haven't seen it, so we may have even been in it, since it is basically based on SENS. But I found a video by the creator of this documentary in YouTube asking if you want to live forever, and to submit a short clip of yourself describing why you want to live forever. I said I would, but never got to doing it (I don't film myself ...well...ever. Something I might have to correct, and actually start using youtube for)

A good idea but wouldn't this require registering more domains? We could have a differnt entry point on the site. For example Immint.org/info = splash page, or Imminst.org/Australia

Well yeah, we have both options, and our choice will depend on how much we want to distance ourselves from 'Immortality'. If we don't mind that, then an Imminst subdomain or folder in ImmInst will be fine. Otherwise we could use a .info domain, which I am pretty sure GoDaddy is selling for as little as $2 per year.

If I were new to the site and I had to enter via a Death Clock I would be turned off. A death clock on the site seems a little corny for a place of such calibre.

Good point, agreed.

add these 2.
-Doctor's surgeries. In the Health mags. People usually have to wait a long time to see a doctor and in most situations they are ill i.e feeling the aging process. It's the perfect hook
-place an add in the local seniors paper

Added to offline version to be updated during next update.

I plan on having a survey put together by mid year. I've already suggested this to leadership and will most likely bring it up at the next meeting.

Reckon you can have it put together by the time we run this? They could coincide very well.

[zoolander]

Reckon you can have it put together by the time we run this? They could coincide very well.

We can try to work it that way.

[futureofscience]

I really like the idea of the landing page. The Imminst homepage is a bit too "full on" for someone visiting for the first time, but maybe just one single landing page would be enough and target it to everyone ? Also a clear, concise introduction to what the Imminst stands for and some of the scientific ideas written for the layman would be very much welcomed (I'm not stupid at all, but things like lyso/mito-SENS, the fundamental aging research, are very hard to understand from what I've read around it so far - not everyone has a background in molecular biology but I imagine a lot of people could be interested in it).

#Do we want ImmInst forums to be flooded with people from ALL backgrounds and opinions? We have a very very impressive colelction of intelligent people here, and blanket marketting to the globe could result in every toim dick and harry from college professors to the psychologically ill to dogmatic fundamentalists, and no doubt lots of people of all sorts of various education levels. Not necessarily bad or good...just needs to be considered and factored in.

I agree this should be considered. However, I think that's always the danger in these things, any organisation (especially highly forum based) will attract its share of people with too much time on their hands/ trolls etc and I don't think that should put off the goal of reaching out to a generally wider audience.

#Survey - The landing page poll could act as a survey if we want it to, so that we can collect names and email addresses of the willing participants to indicate growing support in the movement

What about location too ? That would give us an indication of how successful our flyers were, given that we would know the location of the people who put up the flyers in the first place. But furthermore, if certain areas get high responses could consider having local discussion groups, informal gatherings etc

[Aegist]

What about location too ? That would give us an indication of how successful our flyers were, given that we would know the location of the people who put up the flyers in the first place. But furthermore, if certain areas get high responses could consider having local discussion groups, informal gatherings etc

Actually, that is an interesting positive to come out of this which I didn't consider at first. As an incentive for people to go to town with their flyers, consider that you may reveal closet immortalists in your own town, and end up with a strong community in your area. I know I want to meet everyperson in these forums because we all share the same goals, but you all live so far away. Imagine finding out there were like 20 others in your own area!

[futureofscience]

Well it was an idea because on here at least I don't seem to have come across many other UK immortalists. I know there are a few about but it seems to be a very small number indeed. I only found this site a few months ago and it was interesting to find other people who shared my kind of ideas but I was largely ignorant there was such a community. As you say, there could be many closet immortalists or just people like me who had absolutely no idea this kind of organisation even existed !

[Aegist]

With regards to the objective, I really think we should be trying to 'Start broaching the topic, without broaching the topic'

The concerns raised in this split thread: http://www.imminst.o...&t=14902&hl=&s=

are very real and worrying concerns. And this isn't the only thread to have come up recently about this topic. I am not the only person who is torn between wanting to have global support, and the fear that we end up with global ridicule.

I believe, and I want to hear more opinions on this matter, that it is better to take this process slow than to risk losing everything in the arbitrary decision to ridicule our ideas by the world media.

To this end, I think flyers with curiosity generating lines such as lunarsolarpower's "Not questioning the status quo will kill you!" are perfect. It leads into the topic, without giving the topic away. The landing page should then talk about whole lifespan health through scientific understanding and improvements.

As discussed in that thread, we need to find a way to express ourselves to the outside community as a group interested in pushing the possibility of health. Not crazy sci-fi whackos who want to be immortal, and also not give the impression that we are health nuts who all wake up early, jog everyday, and eat nothing but vitamins and tofu. Because we are neither.

[Aegist]

The domain for it should be something like coalitionforlife.org or revolutionarylifeextension.org or life2020.org or something. It needs to sound somewhat like a serious operation but it needs to keep the word immortality away with a 10 foot pole. Even hard-core life extensionists signed up for cryonics recoil from the word immortality both because of the potential paradoxes and because of its association with mythological hubris.

Would the members support this? If people agree to this idea, I'll bring it up as a serious consideration amongst leadership and see if we can agree that imminst could register and maintain a second 'soft' website. One which avoids use of the word immortality completely.

I can already see many problems...but everywhere I look with regards to this, I see problems. But we need to do something....

[Live Forever]

Also, I remember someone talking about having a different header for different places people were coming from. (or different domains typed in) Perhaps if we had another site, and then people came to ImmInst, we could send them to a slightly different ImmInst (as far as headers and things)

Of course, all this is extra stuff beyond the original intent (just posting flyers), so it might take longer to design and implement an extra landing site and things, (unless someone has something close to being ready already) but I think they are worthwhile things to at least consider.

[Aegist]

Well I did give this project a few months worth of time for a good reason. It doesn't take long to put a website together. Domain name, Wordpress blog, PHPB Forum and you have a complete website ready and awaiting content.

[mitkat]

Would the members support this? If people agree to this idea, I'll bring it up as a serious consideration amongst leadership and see if we can agree that imminst could register and maintain a second 'soft' website. One which avoids use of the word immortality completely.

I completely agree with you here Aegist. The Institute is fine as is, but a fair amount of new people brought in by advertising, seeing that word - are going to assume the worst.

[futureofscience]

Hmm, I kind of agree with what you're saying, "Immortality" as a word does indeed throw up connotations that we don't necessarily want.

However, what comes across is pussyfooting around the issue and making it perhaps more complicated than it needs be. It seems a lot of length to go to to set up another website that doesn't mention the "I-word" yet would still be linked to ImmInst. People are going to find out one way or another. I think educating about health and science ideas behind life extension is great, have some key articles about different ideas currently being used. But the point is that I thought we wanted to promote ImmInst and what it stands for and what it aims to achieve ?

I think complicating the issue sometimes just makes things worse. Look for problems and you'll keep finding them. But don't let them cloud the positives.

(Sorry for the rambling, the morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet [thumb] )

[Aegist]

(Sorry for the rambling, the morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet  [thumb] )

LOL, That wasn't a Ramble! You don't know rambling until you've seen my postings! (and I'm sure you have...)

I have been thinking about this consistently. And I think you are right FOS. There are problems all around, but creating a whole new pretend version isn't going to solve it. I think the ambiguous curiosity flyers may still be the best option, with a good solid scientifically backed landing page which directs people inevitably to ImmInst where they can come to grips with what we are claiming however they want.

[futureofscience]

I agree with the ambiguous flyers as a great way to entice people in.

Maybe there could be a list of topics we consider important that can then have articles written about them specifically for the docking page? You know, kind of a not-too technical overview with plenty of references. Like you say, promote the idea of health and science but give good, concise explanations of the key areas (taking supplements, an overview of SENS , current innovations in stem cell therapies/nanotech/biotech etc).

Also, whilst I've got my thinking cap on, how about some quotes from members about why we're interested and what it means to us, give people something to relate to that we're just normal people with some interesting ideas.

And maybe make a prominent link to the ImmInst film somewhere on the docking page.

I think I'll stop short of suggesting a full clothing range and dance routine.

[Live Forever]

I think I'll stop short of suggesting a full clothing range and dance routine.

Please, elaborate!

[futureofscience]

It could be a interesting marketing strategy, the ImmInst dance. Something catchy everyone can do, bit like the Macarena. Record an annoying song to go with it and make ourselves known to the world via the medium of dance.

Or stick to flyers. It's all good.

[Aegist]

Didn't we do that with 'Forever Young'? Although the dance never really did catch on

[Live Forever]

It could be a interesting marketing strategy, the ImmInst dance. Something catchy everyone can do, bit like the Macarena. Record an annoying song to go with it and make ourselves known to the world via the medium of dance.

Or stick to flyers. It's all good.

Didn't we do that with 'Forever Young'? Although the dance never really did catch on

Man alive; If we could get a really cool immortalist dance to catch on, that would be the best form of viral marketing we could hope for.

[Mind]

The concerns raised in this split thread: http://www.imminst.o...&t=14902&hl=&s=

are very real and worrying concerns. And this isn't the only thread to have come up recently about this topic. I am not the only person who is torn between wanting to have global support, and the fear that we end up with global ridicule.

I basically risked everything I have "built-up" in life so far (reputation, career advancement, money, etc...) by becoming the spokesperson for Imminst. And you guys are worried about a flyer campaign?! I apologize if that sounds harsh. The life extension movement needs activistism and needs exposure. There is nothing to be gained and everything to be lost by remaining a small little "cult". When Bruce started this thing he went no-holds-barred talking to anyone who would listen. His activism is the reason why Imminst has grown as much as it has. Imminst would be nothing if Bruce hadn't fearlessly broached the subject with the general public.

Movements fail without fearless leaders and activists. People follow passion. People like to jump on the bandwagon, not on hermit-like little cults. No risk, no reward. If we take a few "bullets" from the press it will only make us stronger. If we are fearless and articulate we will expand the membership, spread the meme, and conquer aging all that much faster. There is strength in numbers. You know it. I know it. I have already risked everything, and there is nothing left except to go forward. Let's do it.



The landing page is a great idea. Something that looks cool and links to Imminst and maybe a few other sites like SENS/MF.

If we plan on posting most of the flyers at universities, then in the U.S. it would be a good idea to do it in late April....after spring break and before finals/graduation/summer break.

[Live Forever]

The concerns raised in this split thread: http://www.imminst.o...&t=14902&hl=&s=

are very real and worrying concerns. And this isn't the only thread to have come up recently about this topic. I am not the only person who is torn between wanting to have global support, and the fear that we end up with global ridicule.

I basically risked everything I have "built-up" in life so far (reputation, career advancement, money, etc...) by becoming the spokesperson for Imminst. And you guys are worried about a flyer campaign?! I apologize if that sounds harsh. The life extension movement needs activistism and needs exposure. There is nothing to be gained and everything to be lost by remaining a small little "cult". When Bruce started this thing he went no-holds-barred talking to anyone who would listen. His activism is the reason why Imminst has grown as much as it has. Imminst would be nothing if Bruce hadn't fearlessly broached the subject with the general public.

Movements fail without fearless leaders and activists. People follow passion. People like to jump on the bandwagon, not on hermit-like little cults. No risk, no reward. If we take a few "bullets" from the press it will only make us stronger. If we are fearless and articulate we will expand the membership, spread the meme, and conquer aging all that much faster. There is strength in numbers. You know it. I know it. I have already risked everything, and there is nothing left except to go forward. Let's do it.



The landing page is a great idea. Something that looks cool and links to Imminst and maybe a few other sites like SENS/MF.

If we plan on posting most of the flyers at universities, then in the U.S. it would be a good idea to do it in late April....after spring break and before finals/graduation/summer break.

I agree, Mind. None of us should be squeamish in our stances. We all need to be fearless in our approach to this biggest problem humanity has ever faced.

[mitkat]

I agree, Mind. None of us should be squeamish in our stances. We all need to be fearless in our approach to this biggest problem humanity has ever faced.

Fearless. yes. Trying to create dance fads, no. That will sink us faster than the Titanic. Pushing the healthy life extension angle is key in garnering maximum positive impact from our proposed advertising/flyering campaign. No one can say no to that, and once they're in', we can show them the ideas that for some are more hard to swallow.

When Bruce started this thing he went no-holds-barred talking to anyone who would listen. His activism is the reason why Imminst has grown as much as it has. Imminst would be nothing if Bruce hadn't fearlessly broached the subject with the general public.

And Bruce has obviously done a hell of a job! If this is going to be as big a deal as it's speculated to be, there are just as many risks of contacting/attracting the right people as there are the wrong - best outcome = wasted time and money, worst outcome = anti-immortalist journalist, bad media exposure, etc, however unlikely that may be.

[Mind]

worst outcome = anti-immortalist journalist, bad media exposure

This is already happening somewhere in the world on a daily basis and it is highly unlikely the flyer campaign will make it any worse. Besides, we are talking about putting up flyers at mostly universities and public kiosks in big cities, places where people are more open minded.

If CNN does an expose' on Imminst, even it it is spun negative, it will be the biggest exposure we could possibly hope for. Aubrey has already used the "I" word on 60 minutes(CBS). That ground has already been broken.

[Aegist]

OK, I'm sold. Lets take it to the world, and let the media spin it however they may.

Luckily, in our favour, we have massive resources in terms of scientific research, philosophical reasoning, and intelligent people willing to argue the point until the ends of time.

OK, I think we need to start thinking about this landing page. We need some really short, punchy facts which make people go "Holy shit! I had no idea....." (maybe some of the lifespan extension facts of resveratrol? Definitely the research which made nematodes live 600% longer..)

Between my other obligations I will start trying to put together concepts to be converted into a funky page.

I think this should be split into a new thread actually, so this thread can focus on the flyers, and the landing page thread can focus on the landing page design. However they must stay closely aligned because the flyers must lead into the information on the landing page....

best outcome = wasted time and money

Actually, part of the beauty of this idea, is that it is designed to be as time and money free as possible. Well, sure it is taking up some of our time, and more of mine and anyone else who wants to devote themselves to the design and posting process, but compared to a conference, a film etc, the time is insignificant and the money is virtually non-existent.

[mitkat]

This is already happening somewhere in the world on a daily basis and it is highly unlikely the flyer campaign will make it any worse. Besides, we are talking about putting up flyers at mostly universities and public kiosks in big cities, places where people are more open minded.

If CNN does an expose' on Imminst, even it it is spun negative, it will be the biggest exposure we could possibly hope for. Aubrey has already used the "I" word on 60 minutes(CBS). That ground has already been broken.

I totally agree with you Mind. I don't think much bad can come from the flyer campaign. That's why I also said

however unlikely that may be

Aegist, my "best outcome = wasted time and money" remark is in reference to attracting the wrong kind of people, ie those who don't care at all.


I couldn't of phrased that more poorly. [tung]

[Aegist]

I totally agree with you Mind. I don't think much bad can come from the flyer campaign. That's why I also said

however unlikely that may be

I'm still not convinced that 'not much bad' can come from it. i think it is possible that a lot of bad can come from it still...but its a risk we have to run, else we risk sliding into perpetual obscurity.

Edited by Aegist, 07 March 2007 - 11:35 PM.

[Mind]

I totally agree with you Mind. I don't think much bad can come from the flyer campaign. That's why I also said
QUOTE
however unlikely that may be

You are correct, and we agree. Its all good.

[Live Forever]

I agree, Mind. None of us should be squeamish in our stances. We all need to be fearless in our approach to this biggest problem humanity has ever faced.

Fearless. yes. Trying to create dance fads, no. That will sink us faster than the Titanic.

lol, the dance thing was just a comedic thing. I am not proposing any type of dance. [lol] [lol]

[Aegist]

Landing Page Design thread: http://www.imminst.o...T&f=142&t=14930