766 replies to this topic

[bixbyte]

Thank you for the reply!
I can see that yours is cheaper. And it is exactly the same merchandise as biotivia?, but it also makes sense because biotiva have an expensive Google advertisement. Is it many guys here in the forum who orders from your company?

I myself are from Sweden; I see that you just have credit card as a payment option. I myself is worried about that, with hackers and such.

Anyway according to wikipedia 200mg should be ok.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Resveratrol
The amounts used in the mouse study were approximately 22.4 mg/kg body weight per day. Scaling this amount to human body weights would imply an "equivalent human dose" of 1.5 to 2.0 grams/day. Compensating for the fact that humans have slower metabolic rates than mice would change the equivalent human dose to the range of 150 to 200 mg/day,

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Sweden not a shipping problem
Payment safe and secure use paypal and pay me in US$


If you are interested I could sell you some 500 mg capsules that contain 250mg Resveratrol
30 caps each for $20 or 90 caps for $60 plus $10 for secure guaranteed mailing.
You could pay me with Paypal safely and securely with your credit card.
bixbyte @ hotmail . com


Alex


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[thenaturalstep]

Thx for the offer, but i am not intrested. I will buy it from a company.

The stupid thing here is that there is no FAQ sticky for resveratrol :( ... someone should make that ...

Also i don't understand why the prices aren't linearly dependent with the dose for RevGenetics?

RevGenetics 350 R350-150 1,87
RevGenetics 350 R350-30 1,9
RevGenetics 500 R500 2,4

[tintinet]

Good question. There are those who claim we ought to base our assessment of t-resv. products solely on assays evaluating in vivo genetic and metabolic effects, and that percentages of purity, HPLC analysis, etc., are immaterial.

So, who's ready to fund or provide that service? [tung]

[sUper GeNius]

I think many get the Resveratrol from the same manufacturers, but I am not sure.

Some of us in the list have Certificate of Analysis which you can ask for just to make sure you are getting what you paid for. Although BioFlu is a RevGenetics competitor, I think there product is definitely as good as ours.

For the others on the list, browse the sites, and go ahead and contact them to ask for more information. You are a potential customer, I am sure they won't mind answering things for you.

In the end, I think it will be service, marketing and price that will win you over to one brand or another, hope this helps!

Thanks
Anthony Loera

What is your reasoning to assume that BioFlu has a quality product? (assuming that is what you meant when you said "I think there product is definitely as good as ours."

Thanks

[Anthony_Loera]

Thx for the offer, but i am not intrested. I will buy it from a company.

The stupid thing here is that there is no FAQ sticky for resveratrol :( ... someone should make that ...

Also i don't understand why the prices aren't linearly dependent with the dose for RevGenetics?

RevGenetics 350 R350-150    1,87
RevGenetics 350 R350-30      1,9
RevGenetics 500 R500            2,4

Hi,

We are limited in our production options with R500 Capsules, so they will not go down in price. Not many machines can put 1000mg of powder in a capsule.

With the R350 Capsules, we have many more options, and the price reflects this.

as for Bioflu, I think they have their Certificate of Analysis available. Not many do.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

[Anthony_Loera]

Added BioSynergy Resveratrol to the list...

[bixbyte]

Thx for the offer, but i am not intrested. I will buy it from a company.

The stupid thing here is that there is no FAQ sticky for resveratrol :( ... someone should make that ...

Also i don't understand why the prices aren't linearly dependent with the dose for RevGenetics?

RevGenetics 350 R350-150    1,87
RevGenetics 350 R350-30      1,9
RevGenetics 500 R500            2,4

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I purchased this Resveratrol from a reputable supplier
Here is the link to the vendors' Certificate of Analysis


http://pages.prodigy...ixbite/COA1.jpg


My wife and I take over one gram each a day

Alex


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[Anthony_Loera]

I continue to read about the proper dosage of 'things' and have the FDA cited, or some other thing cited for me. I am not sure if many times folks are trying to convince me of taking less than 2 grams a day, or if they are trying to solidify something they have in their own thoughts:

[glasses]
I figure I might as well let you know my personal view on the dosage I am taking, and The RevGenetics 500mg Capsules:

Why 500mg capsules?

The FDA has guidance on dosage by species, and states the following regarding the creation of a model. As of yet I don�t believe this has been done for Resveratrol:

http://www.fda.gov/c...dlns/dose.htm#v

[huh] It is stated:

If the parent drug is measured in the plasma at multiple times and fits the range of toxic dose for two or more animal species, it may be possible to develop a pharmacokinetic model predicting human doses and concentrations and draw inferences about human safe plasma levels in the absence of prior human data.

Now I also looked at Bioavailability of Resveratrol, and see some more questions regarding its bioavailability in humans if given in measured dosages here, it appears humans quickly metabolize it, while other species do not. Read study here:
http://www.revgeneti...vailability.pdf

[huh] It is stated:

The absorption of a dietary relevant 25-mg oral dose was at least 70%, with peak plasma levels of resveratrol and metabolites of 491 _ 90 ng/ml (about 2 _M) and a plasma half-life of 9.2 _ 0.6 h. However, only trace amounts of unchanged resveratrol (<5 ng/ml) could be detected in plasma.

As I have seen in this study, Bioavailability appears to be low for humans regarding Resveratrol. I believe the capsules which contain 500mg is still the way to go for me.

There is one last study regarding species studies which has also made me believe that the 500mg capsule is the way to go and may be relevant to the discussion from a study called
==Comparative evaluation of oral systemic exposure of 56 xenobiotics in rat, dog, monkey and human==
which I cannot make freely available as it is not mine to make it so... (but try googling it anyway) :

[huh] It is stated:

From a qualitative perspective, the monkey was the preclinical species with oral exposure most similar to humans; 57% of the molecules included in this study demonstrated liver blood flow-corrected monkey oral exposure within twofold of human oral exposure, compared with 48% from dog and only 30% from rat.

Now if I remember what the FDA mentioned about how to make a pharmacokinetic model predicting human doses� this statement from the same study may be somewhat relevant:

The results from the present investigation demonstrate that (1) monkey liver blood flow-based oral exposure is qualitatively and quantitatively more predictive for human oral exposure than rat or dog; (2) generation of oral exposure data in three versus two preclinical species does not always improve human predictivity; and (3) the use of molecular properties, alone or in combination with the preclinical data, were unable to predict human exposure as well as monkey liver blood flow-based oral exposure.

[huh] What does this all mean?
There remain lots of questions regarding dosage, and until human trials are completed we may not know what the correct dosage is for humans.

Personally the 500mg capsules make sense for me, as Resveratrol bioavailability remains low and I have seen that we cannot accurately find the proper dosage simply by using a generic formula that may be not be accurate, as the second study finds.

In the first study, I can look at the low bioavailability study that uses plasma levels to understand how resveratrol differs from rat to human. In the second study I see possible errors we are prone to with oral estimates using rats.

Thinking about both, I conclude that there is no reason for me to change my dosage at this time. It�s simply a personal choice I have made for myself. Heck the more I read about this, the more I start thinking that in the end we may find that 2 grams a day may still be low for me. [lol]

What do you think?

Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony Loera, 09 April 2007 - 07:17 PM.

[tintinet]

Total shot in the dark, ISTM. Still, I take massive doses anyway, at least for now.

[bixbyte]

Hi Anthony,

I think of Heavy Metals dosing w. 1 to 2 g/day, try to chelate with EDTA.
One could always ask their health care provider for a blood test.

Alex

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi bixbyte,

there is no problem with heavy metals in the resveratrol I take, but thanks for the concern.

Anthony Loera

[niner]

Bixbyte has a good point with respect to contaminants. The more you take, the more important it is that it be clean. Rather than EDTA (yikes!) or a blood test, I would prefer that my resveratrol be analyzed for heavy metals.

[tintinet]

I'd do both. So many things one ingests might be contaminated, from water to foods to supplements....

[bixbyte]

Bixbyte has a good point with respect to contaminants.  The more you take, the more important it is that it be clean.  Rather than EDTA (yikes!) or a blood test, I would prefer that my resveratrol be analyzed for heavy metals.

My thoughts Exactly, better to test and take "clean" RSV

Remember the Chinese emperor that wanted to live forever?
Taking his elixir of longevity.
Died of heavy metals poisonings.
Built all those terra cotta army warrior statues with weapons for his afterlife.
I can not remember his dynasty name?

[Anthony_Loera]

China's first emperor, Qin Shi Huang Di, and it was mercury poisoning.

I guess the moral of the story is... ask for the COA, and see if it's good for the amount you are taking!

Anthony Loera

[bixbyte]

China's first emperor, Qin Shi Huang Di, and it was mercury poisoning.

I guess the moral of the story is... ask for the COA, and see if it's good for the amount you are taking!

Anthony Loera

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Hi Anthony,

Good Point
Can I see a copy of your COA?

Thanx

Alex

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[Anthony_Loera]

Sure,
just email me your request:

Anthony @ RevGenetics.com


Thanks
Anthony Loera

[Anthony_Loera]

Thank you for the reply!
I can see that yours is cheaper. And it is exactly the same merchandise as biotivia?, but it also makes sense because biotiva have an expensive Google advertisement. Is it many guys here in the forum who orders from your company?

Hi again,

I used to think biotivia had the same type of powder that we have, and the label on their site used to be easy to read regarding content. The label has disappeared from their site recently, or at least I can't find it anywhere anymore.

To add to this, I received an email this morning from biotivia:
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Dear Anthony,
Please be advised that you grossly misrepresent our product on the
comparison chart on your site. Specifically our product contains 500
mg of total resveratrol, of which 250mg is trans-resveratrol. Please
correct this error immediately or we shall seek legal recourse, as we
have against other companies which have misrepresented our product.
Regards, James

cc. Kenneth , Quin and Hampson Barristers
Anne Devereau
Roger Day
==============================================

To that effect, I have taken out these products from the list at this point as we are reviewing it.

As I read the email, I became confused as to the powder used in the biotivia product. If what the email says is true, I don't believe they are using the same powder we use at RevGenetics.

It is my understanding that the capsules are 500mg, see pdf on link below from their website:
http://www.biotivia....thenticity1.pdf

Weight: 595 mg +/- 5%
Content of trans-resveratrol: NLT 250 mg/cap

If what the email says is correct, and we subtract say 95mg for the weight of the capsule itself, we can deduce that they are using close to pure 100% Resveratrol in each capsule. I then re-read the pdf, and find the coloring in the document states that the powder is colored "light green".

I have not seen 98% powder to be light green in color. (or even 99% for that fact...)

If the what the email states is correct, the resveratrol powder that biotivia uses is unlike what I have seen before, and may fall under the FDA "Investigational New Drug" guidelines.

Having said that, I go to another webpage at the site, to see how they compare to other brands:
http://www.biotivia....te/compbiof.php

At this location I see that the content stated is:
250mg Trans-Resveratrol, and a statement that says Cis-Resveratrol is less than 5%. In my head I am suddenly confused. How can a 500mg Resveratrol capsule contain 250mg of Trans-Resveratrol & at the most 25mg of Cis-resveratrol be considered pure resveratrol? I am not sure what the other 225mg of powder constitutes.

I am confused now, can someone help clear this up?

I have emailed biotivia to see if the label has moved to another location on their site to see if it actually says Resveratrol of which 50% is tran-resveratrol. I hope to get an answer soon.

If they are selling 100% Resveratrol, it will be a boon for this forum and it's members.
But for now, I am not sure what kind of powder this is, so I am leaving it off the list for now, until we can have it cleared up.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 08 August 2007 - 03:58 PM.

[proteomist]

Anthony,

I realize your phrasing in the last post is more or less required by circumstances to be gracious. So let me add:

No, the barrister is mistaken. Their product is labeled (and I'm looking at it right now) as you indicate; 500mg total weight, 250 mg trans, <4% cis. If one were to allow that they're indicating two capsules as one dose, and giving a content per dose, then the product would contain 500 mg trans, but he'd still be in error regarding the total content.

I can assure you it is not a 98% or greater product. That can be backed up by mass spec if needed.

I'd leave them off the list too if they want to play like that. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

All that said, I have been using their product for a while now.

[tintinet]

Looks like one of those "copy written by English as second language via use of XXXX-English dictionary" statements. Totally confounding and internally contradictory.

[Anthony_Loera]

I have Added 'Club Natural' brand to list.

[Anthony_Loera]

Added AOR Brand

[bixbyte]

Added AOR Brand

FWIW, Did you know that Paul's Group is in the process of purchasing 25 Kilograms of 100% pure Synthesized Resveratrol?

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Yahoo! Groups
Subject: Good News on Resveratrol Joint Purchase
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:35:35 -0700

To all Synthetic Resveratrol Joint Purchasers,

Finally, I have received a production sample of synthetic resveratrol from my Far East importer. I had given up on the other Chinese source from which I had a sample (sent unsolicited) which looked good, because I could not get straight information from them about the source and company information, so that I could verify that I would not lose any money sent.

I have done an appearance, smell, taste and texture comparison of this sample from my Far East importer with the Orchid product and it appears to be excellent.
A sample of both the Orchid and this Chinese product from my Far East importer will be in the hands of the test lab tomorrow and I should have the test results by the end of next week at the latest.

......

If anyone wishes to increase his/her order s/he can do so at this time by simply sending the appropriate amount of money according to the current price list (which is 5 cents more in each category than it was before in order to recover the testing costs). US shipping is still included in the price as it was before.

100 grams @ $4.05 per gram,
200 grams @ $3.70 per gram,
300 grams @ $3.45 per gram,
400 grams @ $3.30 per gram,
500 grams @ $3.20 per gram.
......

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Alex

[Anthony_Loera]

I believe Orchid has patented their product internationally, so I am hesitant about this being the same as Orchid's synthetic rsv. It will likely be 98 or 99% resveratrol which can be purchased at a better price.

If you are interested in 98% pure resveratrol, email me.
I believe pricing is...

$200 for 100 grams which is sold for manufacturing as it is not encapsulated. It's also not on the price list, as we are still looking at the marketing aspect of it.

According to the chart you posted, Paul's powder will be approximately...
$405 for 100 grams.

Is the difference of 1% (maybe 2%) purity worth the additional $200? If the molecule is the same, personally I would get the cheaper one.

Oh, yes I almost forgot, RevGenetics will also give you the option to purchase the new "RevGenetics Shield" product to protect your powder from any perceived long term oxidation from storage. We just got 3 cases of it, just for small manufacturers that purchase powder and are concerned about long term storage.

PDF Link of Label Mock up is below:
RevGenetics Shield Label (PDF)

Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 12 April 2007 - 08:39 PM.

[tintinet]

Anthony, is the 98% trans-resveratrol you are offering a plant extract, or synthetic?

Thanks!

[Anthony_Loera]

It is plant extract, and lab tested here in the states.

[niner]

I believe Orchid has patented their product internationally, so I am hesitant about this being the same as Orchid's synthetic rsv. It will likely be 98 or 99% resveratrol which can be purchased at a better price.

The group purchase is explicitly for synthetic resveratrol. Orchid has patented a synthesis, but no one can get a "composition of matter" patent on resveratrol. As long as another lab does not use Orchid's process, they can make all they want.

[proteomist]

I for one have little interest in paying two to three fold what I would pay for a 98-99% plant derived extract. Not when the contaminants in the plant product are just piceid and other resveratrol conjugates.

[tintinet]

You are not alone in that sentiment, yet, and, ISTM the recent more widespread availability of high purity plant extracts has largely obviated the demand for the synthetic, unless one is a stickler for adherence to the use of the specific substance utilized in Sinclair's recent rodent studies or demands the clean taste or lack thereof of the synthetic.

[proteomist]

True enough. One could also argue that a plant extract purified to 98% is going to be cleaner, in the sense of being free of reactive intermediates, than a synthetic product that's purified to the same extent. I know they might argue that it's '100% pure', but I work in an organic chem lab, and believe me, it can be really tough to completely get rid of reaction intermediates, at least without killing your overall yield, which would increase price a lot. If there's trace, I'd rather it be plant trace. Just my personal bias though.

You are not alone in that sentiment, yet, and, ISTM the recent more widespread availability of high purity plant extracts has largely obviated the demand for the synthetic, unless one is a stickler for adherence to the use of the specific substance utilized in Sinclair's recent rodent studies or demands the clean taste or lack thereof of the synthetic.