671 replies to this topic

[william7]

And don't pay any attention to Joseph and the others. Many of these guys hate God because they love sin.

This may or may not be the case for some Atheists. It is human nature to sin. I believe the problem stems from education, particularly within the science arena, and traumatic events which happened to them in there lives which ultimately resulted in their hatred toward God and all who believe in God.

I have noticed much hatred within this thread geared towards Christianity. Have you noticed Elijah that we don't likewise exhibit this behavior towards the non-believers? I have made a few, possibly negative posts, but they were solely in rebuttal and defense rather than in an offensive manner.

But the main thing is, is that we are all human, thus causing all of us to be subject to sinning. It is for us mortals to ask God for forgiveness of our sins. What a forgiving and loving Father!

I agree with you 100 percent and I've noticed the hatred you've mentioned too. I've made a few negative posts like you mention too. They were, like yours, made defensively without first thinking out a more appropriate response.

[Karomesis]

I have noticed much hatred within this thread geared towards Christianity. Have you noticed Elijah that we don't likewise exhibit this behavior towards the non-believers? I have made a few, possibly negative posts, but they were solely in rebuttal and defense rather than in an offensive manner.

[g:)] ....right.

[Lazarus Long]

Disdain and disrespect are not hatred and shouldn't be confused for it.

Also I think you paint with a pretty wide brush of prejudice simply because you are not received with open arms. You are being challenged by (believe it or not) open minds and the failing to reply in the kind of convincing manner you think should sway people is not the failing of the listeners but of the preachers.

I for example am not a christian, not now or ever. Nor does the evangelical approach engender sympathy on my part because it comes off like someone selling me a product I am uninterested in. We did not solicit this discussion Elijah, it was brought to us and generally speaking you have been treated with respect for your person even when many find your arguments laughable.

BTW, if you feel such enmity for your ideas then why do you think they have merit as a force of global unification rather than conflict?

Religion is a force for cultural unification derived of evolutionary psychology that is obsolete in a global society for this function because rather than uniting, it devolves into being a force of division and irrational conflict since the fundamental differences are insoluble rationally. At some point the defenders of their faiths must inevitably resort to compulsory force if not violence to impose or defend their perspective in the competitiono of ideologies.

Also many of us are frustrated by your desire to cherry pick issues to respond to and avoid tackling the hard questions asked, or by resorting to the all too worn out adage of "it says so in the bible".

It is these approaches that have in fact increased derision for your position rather than support by most, if not all objective observers.

Edited by Lazarus Long, 31 May 2007 - 01:18 PM.

[basho]

And don't pay any attention to Joseph and the others. Many of these guys hate God because they love sin.

LOL. Love sin. Coming from the guy who has been in jail how many times? Tell us more about sin, I clearly don't know enough....

Elijah!! You know that is an untrue statement.

And I have to point out that many Americans are not sent to jail for anything "sinful" or damaging to society.

What is the most profitable industry in America? Weapons, oil and computer technology all offer high rates of return, but there is probably no sector of the economy so abloom with money as the privately run prison industry.

...the discovery and creation of vast new reserves of "raw materials" -- prisoners. The rate for most serious crimes has been dropping or stagnant for the past 15 years, but during the same period severe repeat offender provisions and a racist "get-tough" policy on drugs have helped push the US prison population up from 300,000 to around 1.5 million during the same period. This has produced a corresponding boom in prison construction and costs, with the federal government's annual expenditures in the area, now $17 billion. In California, passage of the infamous "three strikes" bill will result in the construction of an additional 20 prisons during the next few years.

Greasing the Wheels of Power to Keep Jails Full

To be profitable, private prison firms must ensure that prisons are not only built but also filled. Industry experts say a 90-95 per cent capacity rate is needed to guarantee the hefty rates of return needed to lure investors. Prudential Securities issued a wildly bullish report on CCA a few years ago but cautioned, "It takes time to bring inmate population levels up to where they cover costs. Low occupancy is a drag on profits." Still, said the report, company earnings would be strong if CCA succeeded in ramp(ing) up population levels in its new facilities at an acceptable rate".

"(There is a) basic philosophical problem when you begin turning over administration of prisons to people who have an interest in keeping people locked up" notes Jenni Gainsborough of the ACLU's National Prison Project.

Private prison companies have also begun to push, even if discreetly, for the type of get-tough policies needed to ensure their continued growth. All the major firms in the field have hired big-time lobbyists.

[william7]

Disdain and disrespect are not hatred and shouldn't be confused for it.

True disdain and disrespect are not the same thing, but it is usually symptomatic of an underlying hatred not fully manifest.

Also I think you paint with a pretty wide brush of prejudice simply because you are not received with open arms.  You are being challenged by (believe it or not) open minds and the failing to reply in the kind of convincing manner you think should sway people is not the failing of the listeners but of the preachers.

I think it's a matter of opinion whether the people challenging me have open minds. Just because a person uses the language of science and analytical philosophy doesn't necessarily mean they have an open mind and their argument is correct.

I for example am not a christian, not now or ever.  Nor does the evangelical approach engender sympathy on my part because it comes off like someone selling me a product I am uninterested in.  We did not solicit this discussion Elijah, it was brought to us and generally speaking you have been treated with respect for your person even when many find your arguments laughable.

This is true. I am generally treated with respect by most - even though most don't agree with my religious understanding. I like the debate and discussion in Imminst forums. If I didn't, I would've been gone long ago. I'm not making any complaints for moderation or anything of this nature.

BTW, if you feel such enmity for your ideas then why do you think they have merit as a force of global unification rather than conflict?

Most of the enmity you see is due to a lack of understanding for the Truth, and due to hostility against anything biblical because of all the problems caused by the bad religions of today. A Church practicing the true teachings of Jesus Christ has not yet had a chance in history. Once it does it will be a force for global unification as is prophesied in the Scriptures. People will be drawn to it because of its offer of a better and longer life.

Religion is a force for cultural unification derived of evolutionary psychology that is obsolete in a global society for this function because rather than uniting, it devolves into being a force of division and irrational conflict since the fundamental differences are insoluble rationally. At some point the defenders of their faiths must inevitably resort to compulsory force if not violence to impose or defend their perspective in the competitiono of ideologies.

Again, you - as well as others in this thread - wrongly stereotype me on the basis of the false religions (bad religions) of the world I'm actually opposed to.

Also many of us are frustrated by your desire to cherry pick issues to respond to and avoid tackling the hard questions asked, or by resorting to the all too worn out adage of "it says so in the bible".

I think I've done a pretty good job on the issues. I would like to spend more time posting my beliefs and understanding of Scriptures, but, because of the work I do, this isn't possible. May be in the future I'll be able to spend more time on the computer.

It is these approaches that have in fact increased derision for your position rather than support by most, if not all objective observers.

They may laugh now, but they won't later on when true Christianity begins to take hold and accomplishes what science and politics has never been able to do.

[Karomesis]

If I didn't, I would've been gone long ago.

you would've been sorely missed [cry] [g:)]


don't let this hit you on the way out

[luv2increase]

you would've been sorely missed [cry]  [g:)]


don't let this hit you on the way out

How old are you?

[struct]

you would've been sorely missed [cry]  [g:)]


don't let this hit you on the way out

How old are you?

How about you luv.!? How old are you?
Are you a cute sexy girl (check out my signiture)?

[Aegist]

No real scientist gives it the time of day.

What exactly is your definition of a real scientist? I guess all of the scientist is which I noted in a few pages back were not real scientists? What all have you contributed to science that makes you better than them?

A real scientist is someone who doesn't rely on the "And then a miracle occurs" principle. Which intelligent design 100% does. ID is not scientific, and therefore anyone who thinks it is a scientific proposal, clearly isn't scientifically minded, and is therefore not a scientist.

It's really very simple.

Attached Files

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[william7]

you would've been sorely missed [cry]  [g:)]


don't let this hit you on the way out

How old are you?

How about you luv.!? How old are you?
Are you a cute sexy girl (check out my signiture)?

It looks like you and karomesis are two peas in a pod. http://www.imminst.o...20. Show us the reason and logic in sexual immorality from an atheist standpoint so we can be enlightened.

[struct]

Show me first what do you find sexually immoral in what I wrote!? and then define morality later on (too bad the bibble doesn't have an index to save you some time).

[JohnDoe1234]

Lol... Elijah... Our species would not be here if it were not for the emotions expressed here by struct. I second what he just said, please... show the immorality in his statement.

[william7]

Show me first what do you find sexually immoral in what I wrote!? and then define morality later on (too bad the bibble doesn't have an index to save you some time).

Lol... Elijah... Our species would not be here if it were not for the emotions expressed here by struct. I second what he just said, please... show the immorality in his statement.

Sex is suppose to be a loving, caring relationship between a husband and a wife. Anything outside the marriage bond is sexually immoral by Bible standards. It sounds like you're out for casual sex with anything that comes your way. Checkout the free booklet Marriage and Family: The Missing Dimension, at http://www.gnmagazine.org/booklets/FM/, for more information on the benefits to you and society of a stable, happy marriage. It only makes common sense that a stable. happy marriage will strengthen all concerned against stress and contribute to a longer life span.

[Live Forever]

This gives me an idea for a money maker. For Christian guys and girls that want to be promiscuous, there could be a club or a getaway of some sort where two people could be married at the start of the night (or if it was a weeklong getaway, the start of the week) and then they could do whatever, and the next day (or at the end of the week) get a divorce (or an annulment) and go about their merry way.

I wonder how many Christians would exploit this loophole so that they could say they never had sex outside of marriage?

[Aegist]

la dee da dee da..this thread is dead.

[zoolander]

Luv2increase you believe so strongly in a set a morals and that is a wonderful thing however, you have to understand that not everyone shares the same morals. This si not just because you are Christian. I have a different set of morals to my partner who I love dearly with all my heart. We still both respect each other and generally do not push our morals onto the other. We most definately do not speak down to each other because we believe that our set of morals makes us better than the other.

Luv2increase I have noticed on so many occasions that you talk down to people simply because they do not share your view. You tell them to grow up and ask for their age an so on. At times you have told members that they are wrong asnd this is how people see the situation when your views is the only view that sees it as wrong

Aegist:..... LOL. Love sin. Coming from the guy who has been in jail how many times? Tell us more about sin, I clearly don't know enough....

Luv2increase:....Ok, I know that Elijah's statement was a tad uncalled for and judgmental, but this statement is clearly an immature cheap shot. Seriously, how many people in the world today would have gone to jail if they would have been caught doing their illegal activities? Some people get caught, some people don't. You can't be making statements like this for someone in your position. If you would notice, Elijah has since changed his ways many many years ago, yet you seem to be judging him from his 'past'.

I think you owe Elijah an apology. Do you believe in apologies? Or is your ego too huge since you've never drank, smoked, or done anything illegal and/or sinned in your life???

Grow up. Whether you believe in the Bible or not, many people would consider your statement wrong.

I don't think that Aegist owes Elijah an apology at all. It's a pretty straight forward case where you throw a hypocritical statement back into someone's face. Aegist simply used a fact (i.e Elijah doing time) to exposed the double standards. The strength of the statement was consistent with the accusuation.

Re. apologies.........even if Aegist does feel sorry for the statement it's not your place to demand an apology and then suggesting that Aegist may not be know what an apology is because of his ego. IMO, you really need to really consider the way you deal with situation.

Re. telling people to grow up (you've done this multiple times)......IMO you're one of the most immature and niave members I know on this board. That's not an insult. It's an observation

[basho]

la dee da dee da..this thread is dead.

Yeah, this thread jumped the shark some time back. Is there some way to close it?

[Live Forever]

la dee da dee da..this thread is dead.

Yeah, this thread jumped the shark some time back. Is there some way to close it?

I don't see why it would need to be closed. If you don't want to view it, no one is forcing you to. (in other words you can ignore it if you want to) I was rather enjoying the back and forth on the thread. [wis]

That, plus I think my money making idea is pure gold. )

[zoolander]

who reopened this thread. i closed it for a reason. It was a high quality thread but started to go very off track. I closed it to preserve the quality.

[Live Forever]

Just responded. Was it locked or something?

[zoolander]

yes I closed it

[Live Forever]

Hmm, I don't know. I just typed my message and clicked submit. You can close it again if you really want to.

[zoolander]

ok. Topic closed

[Aegist]

I believe this thread will be re-opened now according to Elijah's wishes, and my agreement, and no disagreement from anyone else.

Of course, I hope that the discussion in the thread can stay substantially more on topic than it has been over the past few pages where it resorted more to strange childlike behavior than it had anything to do with intellectual discussion.

[Zarrka]

can we start the thread again? or at least edit out all the nonsence posts?

[Aegist]

anyone can start any thread anytime. You really don't need to read this entire thread to participate in it. It is like every religious discussion int he history of mankind, so not like you need to know it has already been said specifically for this instance.

[luv2increase]

I think the real debate here should be Intelligent Design vs Non-Intelligent Design.

Since the Bible doesn't agree with many here, logical, rational critical thinking should prevail. Let us try to critically think about this topic. The 'Christianity' of this topic is a little misleading. Many other religions believe in ID. Therefore, I think a new thread should be started, entitled 'ID vs Anti-ID'. Of course, if the Bible is part of your faith and used to back up your belief, that is fine. It wouldn't completely eliminate religion out of it, just minimize it a little.

What do you all think? Is it a good idea to close this thread and open up a new one?

[struct]

Show me first what do you find sexually immoral in what I wrote!? and then define morality later on (too bad the bibble doesn't have an index to save you some time).

Lol... Elijah... Our species would not be here if it were not for the emotions expressed here by struct. I second what he just said, please... show the immorality in his statement.

Sex is suppose to be a loving, caring relationship between a husband and a wife. Anything outside the marriage bond is sexually immoral by Bible standards. It sounds like you're out for casual sex with anything that comes your way.

If you are not sure about the meaning of my signature please don't jump into baseless statements. What made you think that I am out for sex with anything that comes my way. In my signature I don't even mention anything about having sex. I am talking about friends; moreover, I am not out to have any kind of friends (but special ones) let alone having sex with anything!!!? that comes my way. What do you mean by 'anything' (a brick wall also!?)?
How do you feel if I say 'It sounds like Elijah is a psychopath' without fully being sure about it? Do you like to hear that?
Do you still think that I'm out for casual sex with anything that comes my way?

[Aegist]

I think the real debate here should be Intelligent Design vs Non-Intelligent Design.

Since the Bible doesn't agree with many here, logical, rational critical thinking should prevail.  Let us try to critically think about this topic.  The 'Christianity' of this topic is a little misleading.  Many other religions believe in ID.  Therefore, I think a new thread should be started, entitled 'ID vs Anti-ID'.  Of course, if the Bible is part of your faith and used to back up your belief, that is fine.  It wouldn't completely eliminate religion out of it, just minimize it a little.

What do you all think?  Is it a good idea to close this thread and open up a new one?

Well this thread was about the video in the beginning, which was an attempted proof of the existence of God. Thus this thread really was never meant to have anything to do with God.

If you want to start an ID thread, go for it.

The creation of a new thread does not require the closure of an old one.

[luv2increase]

The creation of a new thread does not require the closure of an old one.

I know. I just didn't know if ya'll thought it would be worth it or not. I'll do it later on unless someone else gets to it first. This thread should be closed though. It is too scattered if you know what I mean.