56 replies to this topic

[Live Forever]

Anyone know of anything that helps out sore muscles? I went rock climbing yesterday and have some really sore muscles that I guess I never use.

[maestro949]

I"m not a doctor but I recommend two glasses of wine and a few hours with a cute brunette massage therapist.

[woly]

I"m not a doctor but I recommend two glasses of wine and a few hours with a cute brunette massage therapist.

does iherb have a supplement for that?

[mike250]

stretching and cyrotherapy work well.

[zoolander]

I know what you can do Nate. Shut up and stop whining!

[shamus]

Magnesium, protein.

[sentinel]

Long hot bath and your favourite anti-inflammatory, topical or oral. I could go on about light pumping exercises to facilitate removal of fatigue products and increased supplement A & B etc but hry, go for the quick fix and your body will do the rest in the next 24-72 hrs.

sentinel

[Shepard]

Get off your lazy ass more often and it won't be such a big deal.

Woman.

[sentinel]

oooooh, the women's forum are going to be all over your arse! (no, not you Nate, although it would take your mind off the pain...)

[Shepard]

It's okay, I've got GraySkull on my side.



Edit: Had to change the picture.

Edited by shepard, 26 September 2007 - 02:11 PM.

[ajnast4r]

it will go away. youre just gonna have to deal with it pretty much.

a little whey protein and magnesium will help. you can ice/heat it if it hurts that bad.

systemic enzymes if you have them lying around.

ibuprofen is you just want the pain to go away and dont care about actually rebuilding the muscle.

[krillin]

I wonder why every doctor/nurse/physical therapist I've dealt with says to use ibuprofen, when the following studies suggest that aspirin would be better (for those old enough to not have to worry about Reye's, of course). Is it because aspirin is harder on the tummy?

J Immunol. 2003 Dec 1;171(11):6080-9.
Cyclooxygenase-2-derived E prostaglandins down-regulate matrix metalloproteinase-1 expression in fibroblast-like synoviocytes via inhibition of extracellular signal-regulated kinase activation.
Pillinger MH, Rosenthal PB, Tolani SN, Apsel B, Dinsell V, Greenberg J, Chan ES, Gomez PF, Abramson SB.
Division of Rheumatology, Department of Medicine, New York University School of Medicine, New York, NY 10016, USA. michael.pillinger@med.nyu.edu

We examined the regulation of matrix metalloproteinase (MMP) production by mitogen-activated protein kinases and cyclooxygenases (COXs) in fibroblast-like synoviocytes (FLSCs). IL-1beta and TNF-alpha stimulated FLSC extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK) activation as well as MMP-1 and -13 release. Pharmacologic inhibitors of ERK inhibited MMP-1, but not MMP-13 expression. Whereas millimolar salicylates inhibited both ERK and MMP-1, nonsalicylate COX and selective COX-2 inhibitors enhanced stimulated MMP-1 release. Addition of exogenous PGE(1) or PGE(2) inhibited MMP-1, reversed the effects of COX inhibitors, and inhibited ERK activation, suggesting that COX-2 activity tonically inhibits MMP-1 production via ERK inhibition by E PGs. Exposure of FLSCs to nonselective COX and selective COX-2 inhibitors in the absence of stimulation resulted in up-regulation of MMP-1 expression in an ERK-dependent manner. Moreover, COX inhibition sufficient to reduce PGE levels increased ERK activity. Our data indicate that: 1) ERK activation mediates MMP-1 but not MMP-13 release from FLSCs, 2) COX-2-derived E PGs inhibit MMP-1 release from FLSCs via inhibition of ERK, and 3) COX inhibitors, by attenuating PGE inhibition of ERK, enhance the release of MMP-1 by FLSC.

PMID: 14634122

Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2006 Apr;79(4):303-15.
Rofecoxib regulates the expression of genes related to the matrix metalloproteinase pathway in humans: implication for the adverse effects of cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitors.
Wang XM, Wu TX, Lee YS, Dionne RA.
Pain and Neurosensory Mechanisms Branch and Biostatistics Core, National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892, USA.

BACKGROUND: Cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) and COX-2-derived prostaglandins contribute to acute inflammation and pain, as well as resolution of inflammation; inhibition of COX-2 results in persistence of inflammation. Because matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) play an essential role in inflammatory tissue injury and their activity is regulated by COX-2-derived prostaglandin E2, we evaluated whether COX-2 inhibition is associated with MMP overexpression during acute inflammation. METHODS: A total of 102 oral mucosal biopsy specimens were taken from 51 healthy volunteers who required extraction of impacted third molars. Subjects randomly received either rofecoxib (50 mg daily), ibuprofen (400 mg 4 times per day), or placebo 90 minutes before surgery and up to 48 hours after surgery. Total ribonucleic acid extracted from each biopsy specimen was used to analyze changes in gene expression related to the MMP pathway after tissue injury and drug treatments by use of microarray and quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction in this clinical model of acute inflammation. RESULTS: Following tissue injury, rofecoxib increased the expression of genes associated with degradation of the extracellular matrix, including MMP-1 (64.7 +/- 6.5, P = .010), MMP-3 (41.7 +/- 4.8, P = .007), PLAT (encoding tissue plasminogen activator) (10.9 +/- 4.6, P = .032), and IL8 (encoding interleukin 8) (8.3 +/- 6.7, P = .020), and decreased the expression of TIMP3 (encoding tissue inhibitor of metalloproteinase 3) (6.2 +/- 2.8, P = .027). Ibuprofen produced similar effects on the expression of MMP-1 (23.4 +/- 5.0, P = .016) and MMP-3 (26.3 +/- 4.2, P = .003). In contrast, the expression of these genes was not statistically changed after tissue injury in the placebo group. The microarray data were in concordance with the changes in gene expression confirmed by quantitative real-time polymerase chain reaction. CONCLUSION: These findings provide evidence at the transcriptional level that inhibition of COX-2, in the presence of acute inflammation, induces changes in gene expression related to the MMP pathway. These changes may contribute to the adverse effects attributed to COX-2 inhibition by interfering with resolution of inflammation.

PMID: 16580899

[ajnast4r]

ibuprofen just works better...

[Gerald W. Gaston]

ibuprofen just works better...

I second that when there is inflammation involved. Just had to pop some myself. I do hate doing it though, but at least it isn't an everyday thing like it use to be for me.

[Live Forever]

Thanks for the help guys.

I"m not a doctor but I recommend two glasses of wine and a few hours with a cute brunette massage therapist.

Oh boy, I am down for that.

I know what you can do Nate. Shut up and stop whining!

http://www.talonse.com/whining.wav
lol

Get off your lazy ass more often and it won't be such a big deal.

Woman.

You are joking, but that is probably the best suggestion. I do work out some, but evidently not the muscle groups I was using to crawl across rocks with.

[Shepard]

You are joking, but that is probably the best suggestion. I do work out some, but evidently not the muscle groups I was using to crawl across rocks with.

Yeah, 99% of gyms will not have equipment to fully mimic real-life sports.

[sentinel]

If it make you feel any better I just did my first circuit class ever. They might as well call it the Land of Lunge.

The only thing I have left that's comfortable is the knowledge that I am unlikely to be able to sit down for the next few days.....

[KlueAbridge]

An easy way to recover from soreness is to drink 10g of Glutamine (disolved in water), several times throughout the day for a couple of days. That has worked very well for me.

--Shafik

[luv2increase]

ibuprofen just works better...

Unless the inflammation is of the teeth or anything to do with the mouth region. Aspirin is the best for this type of pain and inflammation. It even works better than vicodin for the pain.

[ajnast4r]

ibuprofen just works better...

Unless the inflammation is of the teeth or anything to do with the mouth region. Aspirin is the best for this type of pain and inflammation. It even works better than vicodin for the pain.

every person, doctor and nurse i know disagrees with you

[nihilist]

if youre just starting up, expect to be sore some place for maybe a month. after that, it wont happen as much.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

every person, doctor and nurse i know disagrees with you

Personal experience here found otherwise as well. A quick search of many "dental sites" (not saying they are authoritative sources) give the nod to NSAIDs too. Some even say: "It is preferable not to use aspirin because of the risk of bleeding during dental treatment. However, an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) such as ibuprofen may be suitable as it has less risk of bleeding than aspirin. NSAIDs should be avoided if you have asthma or a history of stomach problems because they may worsen these problems." - http://www.mydr.com....sp?article=3151

http://www.dentalfea..._dentistry.html

[Shannon Vyff]

innocent little 'sore muscles' thread--turns into sexist remarks! hmmph hardly warrants a response thread in women's forum though...

I do 3-8 miles each day, I totally worked myself last week (at 12% incline, did 4 miles) and was so sore I could barely walk up the stairs in my house--had to force myself to do 3 miles the next day (level, slow) so yeah, I don't whine (didn't here anyway) that being said: I did take ibuprofen

I drink a lot of water when I get sore (if I over do it on weights, I'll get a massage from my husband--we have a re-usable heart massager that heats up, stays hot for 10 minutes--it is heavenly!!!)

You can buy those on-line: http://www.egratific...ys/hotheart.htm

But--I'm going to have a party at my home on November 10th, where they will be available for only 12 dollars--for anyone in Austin --they make GREAT Holiday presents!

[Live Forever]

innocent little 'sore muscles' thread--turns into sexist remarks!  hmmph  hardly warrants a response thread in women's forum though...

What was sexist? The massage comment? Nothing wrong or sexist with a massage, you even mentioned getting one from your husband. )

I do 3-8 miles each day,  I totally worked myself last week (at 12% incline, did 4 miles) and was so sore I could barely walk up the stairs in my house--had to force myself to do 3 miles the next day (level, slow)  so yeah, I don't whine  (didn't here anyway) that being said: I did take ibuprofen  

Sorry, I didn't mean to seem like I was whining. I was more or less just looking for ways to decrease it in the future when it happens.

if I over do it on weights, I'll get a massage from my husband-

So sexist! Hardly warrants a response thread in the men's forum though...
)
(just kidding around with you)

You can buy those on-line:  http://www.egratific...ys/hotheart.htm 

But--I'm going to have a party at my home on November 10th, where they will be available for only 12 dollars--for anyone in Austin --they make GREAT Holiday presents!

Looks awesome. If getting massages wasn't so sexist I might get some. )

[Live Forever]

My soreness is basically gone now, but what about Bengay and Icy-Hot and stuff like that? I don't even know how it works, but when I ran track I know the coach would have us put it on our muscles to warm them up. (along with stretching)

Also, what about Epsom Salt? Does that work at all?

[Karomesis]

Anyone know of anything that helps out sore muscles? I went rock climbing yesterday and have some really sore muscles that I guess I never use.

I read in a Pubmed study that mice exposed to 140 degree temperatures for 30 minutes post exercise, dramatically cut their oxidative stress levels down. I've since tried this myself with 10-15 minutes in a dry sauna at around 160-170 degrees, I've found that is signifcantly reduced post workout muscle soreness and probably oxidative stress as well.

try it out if you have access to a sauna or steam room. [thumb]

I'll try to find the study, I think I was researching hormesis when I found it.

[krillin]

Ignore what I wrote earlier. Aspirin only affects ERK at millimolar concentrations i.e. several grams per day. At normal doses it's just a COX inhibitor.

[Shepard]

innocent little 'sore muscles' thread--turns into sexist remarks!  hmmph  hardly warrants a response thread in women's forum though...

What was sexist? The massage comment? Nothing wrong or sexist with a massage, you even mentioned getting one from your husband. )

She was probably talking about my comment.

What karomesis said is worth a shot too, although I'm not sure the temperature level required. You might try contrasting showers if you don't have access to a sauna and ice bath.

[dannov]

NEVER take an anti-inflammatory to assist with recovery, because it will do the complete opposite. It's a temporary pain fix that affects the rebuilding of the muscle. Eat loads of protein. Off the top of my head, Vince McMahon at age 58 or so...I was at a Royal Rumble pay-per-view. Vince was due to come down to the ring and declare a decision, but the way he stepped in the ring his left leg collapsed, he shifted all of his weight to his right leg, and that collapsed under the pressure too. You could see the excruciating pain in his face and eyes but, sitting down he asked the ref to hand him the mic and he still delivered the decision before being carried away (no, this was not an act). Vince tore BOTH of his quadriceps muscles, an injury that is often career-ending. He ingested about 300+ grams of protein per day, and made a remarkably fast recovery. He was out of the wheelchair and on crutches in weeks, and back to walking in a few months--at his age, he recovered faster than most young athletes could ever hope to.

Protein and water are the building blocks of our body--treat your body well, and it will treat you well.

I also second the glutamine comment in this thread.

[Live Forever]

I read in a Pubmed study that mice exposed to 140 degree temperatures for 30 minutes post exercise, dramatically cut their oxidative stress levels down. I've since tried this myself with 10-15 minutes in a dry sauna at around 160-170 degrees, I've found that is signifcantly reduced post workout muscle soreness and probably oxidative stress as well.

try it out if you have access to a sauna or steam room. [thumb]

I'll try to find the study, I think I was researching hormesis when I found it.

Is there a difference between a dry and a steamy sauna?