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UFO's and Aliens


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#1 marcopolo

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 05:43 AM


I am curious what people here think of the subject of UFO's and Aliens. What do you think people are seeing? Do you think they can all be explained as illusions, secret military craft, or hoaxes, or is it possible they, at least some of them, are something more?

#2 Luna

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 08:46 AM

I somehow doubt that aliens will try to be so secretly while so advanced and at the same time, a failure that some seemingly crazy people are the only ones to notice them.

Then again, aliens can make mistakes too I guess.

Edited by Winterbreeze, 20 December 2007 - 08:47 AM.


#3 Matt

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 07:19 PM

Well first of I believe that 'aliens' do exist but probably not visited planet earth just yet. If you think about it, people have claimed that UFO's have crashed here on earth, but then with technology that could allow aliens to travel vast distances across the galaxy or universe probably wouldn't fail, and their knowledge about gravity is probably good considering. So the idea that aliens have crashed on earth is ridiculous. What people are seeing are probably aircraft that are being experimented with by the governments, most notably the US government and nothing more. No aliens here unfortunately :(

Though I can't wait until we make contact or discover other Civilizations that are out there, I'm sure there are plenty!



They're watching, trust no one :|-

Edited by Matt, 20 December 2007 - 07:23 PM.


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#4 william7

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 08:04 PM

Here's the video on the UFO conference held last month in Washington.


Sounds like a pretty serious bunch without agendas to make up false stories.

#5 marcopolo

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 10:09 PM

The reason I asked this is that I responded to another question on here and was thinking about the Fermi Paradox. I have not given UFO's serious consideration, as an adult but I am visiting my parents for the holidays and frankly there is not much to do around here anyway, so I decided to look up some info on the subject and found a bunch of videos by the History Channel on youtube. Then I looked up and the subject matter from other sources online. I have generally been skeptical but tried to approach it with an open mind.
There are alot of kooks in the study of UFO phenomena, but that doesn't mean that the entire body of evidence can be discounted without a second thought. There is a vast difference between acknowledging that *some* UFO reports could possibly be craft that were not built by humans, and believing that there is a vast conspiracy by the grays and the Illuminati to rule the world and millions of people are being abducted every night by little gray men with big slanted eyes and being given anal probes. I think most of what people see and report as "UFO's" can be explained or they are outright hoaxes, but that doesn't mean that all of them fall into this category. I am not convinced that there are alien craft visiting this planet, but some of the reports I have read (from multiple sources on the internet), do leave me scratching my head. Particularly those that had multiple witnesses and were corroborated with radar contact. It is possible for people to "see" things, and radar is not infallible at all, but combine the two and it certainly does seem like something was really there. Here are a few that I thought were particularly interesting and difficult to explain-



A short while later, there was a third sighting of a similar object by an Alaskan Airlines jet.

Another one that is particularly spooky and unusual-





And this around the same time-

1978 New Zealand UFO sightings

Here are a few more that I thought were interesting-

Washington DC 1952

America West Flight 564

#6 Shepard

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 10:46 PM

They're watching, trust no one :|-


They make you do this:



#7 marcopolo

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:05 AM

They're watching, trust no one :|-


They make you do this:


Okay Mulder, I know the anal probe was hard on you, but making fun of the aliens won't make them go away lol :)

The reason I posted is because I know there are alot of intelligent skeptical people here. I thought maybe people were willing to discuss it seriously? I don't think I am a stupid ignorant fool either.

FYI I have a commercial pilots rating as well as a flight instructor rating. I also have a degree in geology, so I do know how science works. Additionally I did a stint while I was in school I worked for the summer at NASA Ames where I investigated aircraft incident and accident reports(no, none of them turned out to caused by alien spacecraft).

With all my flight experience and sailing in the ocean and hiking, etc., I have never personally seen anything I cannot explain. The most out of the ordinary thing I saw was when I was a growing up, me and a friend were in the woods at night and we saw this shimmering, glowing white river of mist moving through the sky. I told my mother and she thought I was making it up or hallucinating, but she was wrong, it turned out to be a major display of the northern lights that thousands of people saw that night. I had seen the northern lights before but that night I learned they could manifest themselves in all sorts of different ways, and that was when I was still a kid and not as educated as I am now.

So I do realize that all sorts of strange things can account for UFO sightings, but I still have difficulty coming up with rational explanations for a few of the incidents I have read about and posted here. I challenge the skeptics here to come up with rational explanations for these, I would really like to hear some ideas. Simple ridicule, as hilarious as it may be, doesn't count, making fun of something doesn't explain it or make it go away :-)

Edited by marcopolo, 21 December 2007 - 02:10 AM.


#8 forever freedom

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:20 AM

I do believe that there is a possiblity that alien ships fly here on earth. It is not very likely, but possible.


I would also, just to kill my curiosity for once and for all, love to visit and know everything about the Groom Lake Base/Area 51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51. It is probably just a military base that researches military technology, but since many people say that they see strange objects around there (the same strange objects people see around the world), if i knew for once and for all what was inside Area 51, i would probably also be able to take a conclusion about if these strange visual phenomenons in the sky are really from alien airships or military technologies, or just illusions created by some natural phenomenons.

Edited by sam988, 21 December 2007 - 02:21 AM.


#9 forever freedom

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:26 AM

So I do realize that all sorts of strange things can account for UFO sightings, but I still have difficulty coming up with rational explanations for a few of the incidents I have read about and posted here. I challenge the skeptics here to come up with rational explanations for these, I would really like to hear some ideas. Simple ridicule, as hilarious as it may be, doesn't count, making fun of something doesn't explain it or make it go away :-)




I agree with you. Just because something may sound ridiculous ("what the hell, you think the earth is round??? hahah crazy jackass") it doesn't mean that it isn't true.

And since there is a high probability that alien life exists somewhere out there in the universe, we can never discard the possibility of a civilization being way more advanced technologically than us, and considering us as one of their test labs or something.

#10 Shepard

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 02:26 AM

I think you may have mistaken my desire to post that video with an attempt to belittle your topic. I was just looking for a reason to post it.

Regarding sightings, I'd say people are going to twist their perception and memories to fit their desired reality.

#11 marcopolo

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 03:19 AM

I think you may have mistaken my desire to post that video with an attempt to belittle your topic. I was just looking for a reason to post it.

Regarding sightings, I'd say people are going to twist their perception and memories to fit their desired reality.


No problem, sometimes communication doesn't come across the way it is intended online. The reason the cases I posted are more perplexing to me is the fact that they were also spotted on radar. For instance, in the case of the JAL sighting it was the ATC radar that initially notified the airliner of multiple objects in their vicinity. Now could it have been a hallucination, or some other phenomena like the northern lights? How about a military test aircraft? The pilot reported multiple solid objects, not just vague lights in the night sky, but craft, one of which was "larger then an aircraft carrier". How could this be mistaken by the entire crew as the northern lights? Not to mention that the northern lights, to my knowledge, do not show up on radar as distinct objects intercepting a jetliner. I also doubt there are military test aircraft as large as an aircraft carrier flying around, that are able to pace a jetliner exactly, and right in front of the windshield. Could have the radar not been working properly, and by some amazing coincidence the entire crew saw something they could not explain? Only problem with that explanation is that these objects were later picked up by military radar from a different installation. What are the chances that both radars were broken in the same way at the same time?
I don't doubt that many of the sightings are natural phenomena like the northern lights, or even military test aircraft out of area 51, or mass delusional interpretations. But a few of them do not seem, upon first examination, to be any of these. Out of the thousands of alleged UFO's, is it possible just a few of them, coincidentally, are spacecraft or probes from somewhere else? Perhaps an advanced, even post-singularity civilization, has not yet colonized the entire galaxy, or perhaps it is in a different galaxy, and it has sent out self replicating probes to explore and inspect nearby galaxies for intelligent life, and upon detecting our radio transmissions came closer to the earth to inspect what was going on here. And perhaps one or more of those inexplicable sightings were a glimpse of those probes inspecting the earth? I know this is wild speculation, but it is a hypotheses that I don't think is anymore far out then the idea we are living in a simulation. Please don't mistake my admittedly wild speculation for me believing this to be the case. It could as easily be a natural phenomenon that is currently unknown to science, or a more mundane explanation that I haven't thought of.

#12 Matt

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 04:14 AM

I thought this was quite interesting :)


Discovery video: http://www.anomalies...dsp/dsp-001.ram

A UFO the military tracked
May 5, 1984; USDSP Satellite detects "fastwalker"
Article by Dave Kauble

(Based on the Discovery Channel Segment, "Fast Walker")

MAY 5, 1984, an alert was triggered at the North America Air Defense Command. Moving at 22,000 miles per hour, it was heading toward Earth and had been determined to NOT be incoming ballistic missiles, or any other type of conventionally explainable object. Once tracked, it was code-named "Fast Walker".

This object was first spotted by the ultra-sensitive orbiting USDSP satellites our county uses for detailed surveillance and air defense. These satellites have the infra-red capability to spot small heat sources on the surface of the earth and are time-proven as effective monitoring devices.

At 1400 hours zulu time, an object was spotted by a USDSP satellite and tracked as it sped first directly toward the Earth and passed if front and within 15 miles of the USDSP satellite. It suddenly and without impact or contact with other devices or obstructions curved outward, away from the Earth. It was tracked for another 9 minutes until it then disappeared.

What the data resolved was that it was a hot, fast, solid object that swept in from outer space. This information would probably have been totally kept from public view, but it was leaked.

The statement was "Where it appeared in the (satellite's) sensor field would indicate that the object came into the sensor field from outer-space, went in front of the sensor, and left, departing back into deep space. It would indicate that it was some type of craft that had the ability to maneuver. And there you have hard evidence. You have telemetry from that satellite, you have information, you have systems, you have data that you can go back and investigate and check and verify. In the past, usually UFO events are of just eye-witness testimony... There you have a very sensitive defense system that sent you information to the ground. I don't even know if you can solve it... maybe it's one of those enigmas that's just gonna be with us forever. What type of craft would have that ability? Some people might say, 'A UFO'."

http://www.nicap.org/walker.htm

#13 luv2increase

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 05:25 AM

I believe that there are such things which we call UFOs. I do not, however, believe them to be from outer space. I think they are products of secret military production right here on Earth. I have always thought this.

Listen to how the FAA wanted to talk to the one pilot after he landed who saw the UFO 40ft from his cockpit over Alaska. They probably explained to him to not leak any info about the event. This being because the FAA knew about the whole thing. It was probably a couple of cocky pilots flying the secret aircraft.

Think about it. It is very possible for there being a secret order which started flying experimental aircraft since the aviation age began.


Some crazy stuff nonetheless.

Edited by luv2increase, 25 December 2007 - 05:25 AM.


#14 marcopolo

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 07:05 AM

That could be true in alot of cases, but in this particular case, if those were secret government aircraft, there have been some really amazing advances in aeronautical science that we don't know about. From the pilots description, the craft he was describing sounds like the ones from the movie "Independence Day" the city sized mother ships that parked over all the cities in the movie and blew them up. I wonder if they writers and producers got the idea for those mother ships from this incident. Hopefully if they are aliens they have friendlier intentions then in that movie.
The other peciluar thing is the FAA is a civilian agency, and I wonder why an air force flight crew would be requested to contact the FAA so the FAA can tell them not to talk about a top secret military project. I would think that they would be told this through air force channels.

I believe that there are such things which we call UFOs. I do not, however, believe them to be from outer space. I think they are products of secret military production right here on Earth. I have always thought this.

Listen to how the FAA wanted to talk to the one pilot after he landed who saw the UFO 40ft from his cockpit over Alaska. They probably explained to him to not leak any info about the event. This being because the FAA knew about the whole thing. It was probably a couple of cocky pilots flying the secret aircraft.

Think about it. It is very possible for there being a secret order which started flying experimental aircraft since the aviation age began.


Some crazy stuff nonetheless.


Edited by marcopolo, 07 January 2008 - 07:07 AM.


#15 william7

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 11:55 AM

if those were secret government aircraft, there have been some really amazing advances in aeronautical science that we don't know about

And some real dereliction of duty on the part of our government (assuming they belong to the U.S. government) for not using this advanced technology in the conduct of the wars in Afganistan and Iraq. Think of all the lives of miltary personel and innocent noncombants that could've been saved.

#16 Live Forever

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 05:26 PM

I believe the possibility of alien life forms in general to be quite high. (almost an inevitable, especially if you consider bacteria and microbes "alien life forms") However, the specific sitings of people on earth generally seem a bit far fetched to me.

#17 aikikai

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 07:19 PM

I have seen UFO's at least four times in my life. Every time it was different. Three times I have seen UFO's hovering over me without any sound of engines and no airplane traffic controllers could identify any flying objects in the area I saw it, even calling them when the UFO's where flying.

The last time I saw a UFO, not only me but by other too, from an commercial airliner when I was flying to London one week after 9/11 attacks.

UFO's exists, but what the objects are - natural, extraterrestial, human aircrafts, illusions or something else, I don't know.

#18 marcopolo

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:13 PM

I have seen UFO's at least four times in my life. Every time it was different. Three times I have seen UFO's hovering over me without any sound of engines and no airplane traffic controllers could identify any flying objects in the area I saw it, even calling them when the UFO's where flying.

The last time I saw a UFO, not only me but by other too, from an commercial airliner when I was flying to London one week after 9/11 attacks.

UFO's exists, but what the objects are - natural, extraterrestial, human aircrafts, illusions or something else, I don't know.


Wow, you are lucky to have seen that many, I have never seen a UFO and I am a pilot with thousands of hours of flight time. :(
I was recently discussing this with a friend, he was a military air traffic controller and he has seen some strange things on radar that he could not explain, like an object without a transponder that traveled over 1000 miles in less than a minute.

However, the specific sitings of people on earth generally seem a bit far fetched to me.

I agree that MOST of them do seem a bit far fetched. I was pointing out there are a few cases that seem to have some real plausibility and evidence that cannot be easily explained away as something more prosaic.

#19 aikikai

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 09:26 PM

I have seen UFO's at least four times in my life. Every time it was different. Three times I have seen UFO's hovering over me without any sound of engines and no airplane traffic controllers could identify any flying objects in the area I saw it, even calling them when the UFO's where flying.

The last time I saw a UFO, not only me but by other too, from an commercial airliner when I was flying to London one week after 9/11 attacks.

UFO's exists, but what the objects are - natural, extraterrestial, human aircrafts, illusions or something else, I don't know.


Wow, you are lucky to have seen that many, I have never seen a UFO and I am a pilot with thousands of hours of flight time. :(
I was recently discussing this with a friend, he was a military air traffic controller and he has seen some strange things on radar that he could not explain, like an object without a transponder that traveled over 1000 miles in less than a minute.


For the case of a UFO hovering just above me, silently, the ship was very similiar to this imgae of infamous delta shaped UFO sigthings in the 90's (this image is not to mistake for US stealth airplane).

Posted Image

#20 Reno

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 04:56 AM

Well if there isn't something out there, it would be an awful waste of space.

#21 marcopolo

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:20 AM

Well if there isn't something out there, it would be an awful waste of space.

I never said I am convinced that aliens are visiting, but there certainly is some interesting circumstantial evidence. I have always had a fascination with the mysterious and unknown, always wanted to see what is over the next hillside so to speak. Exploring the unknown or speculating about it, even if impractical to everyday existence, stimulates my mind more then boring everyday mundane stuff does. Aliens and exobiology certainly fall into this category.

#22 wydell

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 06:52 AM

Well if there isn't something out there, it would be an awful waste of space.

I never said I am convinced that aliens are visiting, but there certainly is some interesting circumstantial evidence. I have always had a fascination with the mysterious and unknown, always wanted to see what is over the next hillside so to speak. Exploring the unknown or speculating about it, even if impractical to everyday existence, stimulates my mind more then boring everyday mundane stuff does. Aliens and exobiology certainly fall into this category.


I too have had a fascination with the unknown, along with nutrition, exercise, and human performance. In any event, I think that there are some advanced civilizations here. Whether they are from another planet or another time, I don't know. But I bet they have something better than Resveratrol.

#23 solbanger

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 07:31 PM

Well if there isn't something out there, it would be an awful waste of space.

I never said I am convinced that aliens are visiting, but there certainly is some interesting circumstantial evidence. I have always had a fascination with the mysterious and unknown, always wanted to see what is over the next hillside so to speak. Exploring the unknown or speculating about it, even if impractical to everyday existence, stimulates my mind more then boring everyday mundane stuff does. Aliens and exobiology certainly fall into this category.


I too have had a fascination with the unknown, along with nutrition, exercise, and human performance. In any event, I think that there are some advanced civilizations here. Whether they are from another planet or another time, I don't know. But I bet they have something better than Resveratrol.


Whether they intend to share that ultra tech is another matter entirely. From the anectdotal evidence many people think that these crafts are the ultimate in mind/machine meld which is why there are so many reports of these shapeshifting disks that can zip around mountain tops. However the silence of their, and this could be more than one society, activity speaks volumes about the entities regard for us as a worthwhile organism.

#24 aikikai

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 07:56 PM

Well if there isn't something out there, it would be an awful waste of space.

I never said I am convinced that aliens are visiting, but there certainly is some interesting circumstantial evidence. I have always had a fascination with the mysterious and unknown, always wanted to see what is over the next hillside so to speak. Exploring the unknown or speculating about it, even if impractical to everyday existence, stimulates my mind more then boring everyday mundane stuff does. Aliens and exobiology certainly fall into this category.


I too have had a fascination with the unknown, along with nutrition, exercise, and human performance. In any event, I think that there are some advanced civilizations here. Whether they are from another planet or another time, I don't know. But I bet they have something better than Resveratrol.


I do think so to also, they must have some good anti-aging technology too. ;)
Some "experts" are claiming that alien greys (if the exists so to say) have a life span of a couple of hundred years :)

A supposed real taping of a grey alien:

Edited by Live Forever, 10 January 2008 - 08:01 PM.
fixed embedded video so it is viewable


#25 william7

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:56 AM

As a result of a rash of UFO sightings down in Texas recently, they're going to conduct an investigation. See
http://cosmos.bcst.y...p...13&src=news

#26 basho

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 01:45 PM

As a result of a rash of UFO sightings down in Texas recently, they're going to conduct an investigation. See
http://cosmos.bcst.y...p...13&src=news

An investigation, eh? Well, I'm sure that will clear things up once and for all.

I especially like the commentary on the news report: "(Ricky) Sorrells thought about shooting at the object, but didn't want to start an interstellar war". I guess we're all alive today thanks to Ricky's quick thinking and restraint, overcoming the natural, small-town American reaction to the unknown by withholding fire.

#27 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 01:54 PM

basho--hah!


I'm in Texas, and actually heard a lot about this case--I was surprised to see it mentioned on the local T.V. news in Austin, as well as see it on CNN ( http://www.cnn.com/2...s.ap/index.html ) and all over the net.

There have been sightings in the news for decades, I always hope we can have actual contact in my lifetime--I suppose if any races are watching us, most likely we are just too primitive with all our war and inequality...

#28 biknut

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 04:32 PM

basho--hah!


I'm in Texas, and actually heard a lot about this case--I was surprised to see it mentioned on the local T.V. news in Austin, as well as see it on CNN ( http://www.cnn.com/2...s.ap/index.html ) and all over the net.

There have been sightings in the news for decades, I always hope we can have actual contact in my lifetime--I suppose if any races are watching us, most likely we are just too primitive with all our war and inequality...



I have been following the reports of this sighting too. One thing I have not seen mentioned in any of the reports is that there's a nuclear power plant about 20 miles away in Glenrose.

#29 DukeNukem

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 05:14 PM

Haven't read anyone replies, so perhaps redundant: I think there is limited human-level intelligent life in the universe, otherwise, I think we would have been contacted (and this doesn't mean abducted). I think that intelligent human life on Earth was as rare as hitting two lotteries in a row, or finding a politician unswayed by corporate pressure. My bet is that we are alone in this galaxy, and most galaxies lack life with comparable intelligence and tool making ability.

Additionally, any life comparable to us will likely exist for a blink of the cosmic eye as it quickly passes into transhuman-like ascendancy. And at that god-like level we cannot image what will happen. But, given that it must have happened, I'm surprise we've not been contacted, unless all races that reach this level obey the Prime Directive without question. Or, the universe is so vast that even at that level finding another intelligence species is still a needle in a haystack proposition.

I DO believe that the universe is teaming with lower-level life, and that we'll even find life elsewhere within our solar system, likely one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. But, this life is either well below our intelligence level, or lacks the ability to make precision tools (i.e. comparable to monkeys in this regard). My guess is that most life we'll find will exist within liquid environments, where tool making doesn't seem to be a strong evolutionary branch.

The fact is this: intelligence doesn't appear to be an important evolutionary survival tactic, and therefore we might be a very rare branch not seen in too many places throughout the universe. Less intelligent species have been around a lot longer than us, and will likely be here well beyond our (self-inflected) demise.

Edited by DukeNukem, 16 January 2008 - 05:15 PM.


#30 solbanger

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 12:48 AM

Haven't read anyone replies, so perhaps redundant: I think there is limited human-level intelligent life in the universe, otherwise, I think we would have been contacted (and this doesn't mean abducted). I think that intelligent human life on Earth was as rare as hitting two lotteries in a row, or finding a politician unswayed by corporate pressure. My bet is that we are alone in this galaxy, and most galaxies lack life with comparable intelligence and tool making ability.

Additionally, any life comparable to us will likely exist for a blink of the cosmic eye as it quickly passes into transhuman-like ascendancy. And at that god-like level we cannot image what will happen. But, given that it must have happened, I'm surprise we've not been contacted, unless all races that reach this level obey the Prime Directive without question. Or, the universe is so vast that even at that level finding another intelligence species is still a needle in a haystack proposition.

I DO believe that the universe is teaming with lower-level life, and that we'll even find life elsewhere within our solar system, likely one of the moons of Jupiter or Saturn. But, this life is either well below our intelligence level, or lacks the ability to make precision tools (i.e. comparable to monkeys in this regard). My guess is that most life we'll find will exist within liquid environments, where tool making doesn't seem to be a strong evolutionary branch.

The fact is this: intelligence doesn't appear to be an important evolutionary survival tactic, and therefore we might be a very rare branch not seen in too many places throughout the universe. Less intelligent species have been around a lot longer than us, and will likely be here well beyond our (self-inflected) demise.


Then again you have to wonder how Betty Hill recalled a map she saw in one of her abduction regression sessions, and when Marjorie Fish took it upon herself to map the galaxy for a match (using threaded beads!) six years later she pinpointed the location of Hill's map as representing Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2. A binary sun. Several stars on Betty's map had solid lines going between then in what the aliens called "trade routes" or dashed lines called "expedition routes". Marjorie had a tough time matching them because some were not even known in 1961 when the abduction took place. But later as Marjorie gained the latest observatory data Betty's map somehow corroberated the star formations that were just only discovered in 1969!

Many skeptics have looked for ways to jab at the credibility of the map, Carl Sagan being the most famous. But in the end most of the criticisms turned out to be arbitrary or ill-informed.

If you look at the map Betty drew two of the stars bigger than others. As if the map is seen from the point of view of Reticuli. She said that the alien map moved out towards her when she was in front of it. In 1961 there were no such things as 3D projections. Betty probably was just drawing a 2D version of a 3D map and had no way to articulate the sense of distance between the objects on display.

http://www.dailygrail.com/node/5100

http://mimufon.org/1...eDiscovered.htm




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