111 replies to this topic

[basho]

My bet is that we are alone in this galaxy, and most galaxies lack life with comparable intelligence and tool making ability.
...
The fact is this: intelligence doesn't appear to be an important evolutionary survival tactic, and therefore we might be a very rare branch not seen in too many places throughout the universe. Less intelligent species have been around a lot longer than us, and will likely be here well beyond our (self-inflected) demise.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, although you have to admit its rather disturbing in a species-level existential kind of way that we don't see any sign at all of intelligent life - no grand stellar engineering projects, no artificial replicators/probes spreading from star to star, no signals or any form of spillover communications.

Personally, I think we may be missing something big. Maybe intelligent civilizations quickly transition through a singularity and discover our Universe to be a somewhat anemic, low-dimensional backwater and then tunnel through to where the real action is. Who knows, maybe our entire Universe is a minuscule point within a far grander Metaverse. Or maybe we're just a localized simulation and the visible Universe is simply a form of active wallpaper, like those Windows Vista DreamsScene animated backgrounds. Please don't crash, please don't crash!

[wydell]

[quote name='basho' date='17-Jan 2008, 09:10 AM' post='219360']
[quote name='DukeNukem' post='219243' date='17-Jan 2008, 02:14 AM']My bet is that we are alone in this galaxy, and most galaxies lack life with comparable intelligence and tool making ability.

Apparently, you missed the definitive proof on the previous page. Did you not see the youtube posting of the interview with a Grey? I think that pretty much settles it. They're here

Seriously though, my guess is that they are really here. Too many sightings by too many credible people - airforce pilots, air traffic controllers, the Govenor of Arizona etc. . .

[biknut]

basho--hah!


I'm in Texas, and actually heard a lot about this case--I was surprised to see it mentioned on the local T.V. news in Austin, as well as see it on CNN ( http://www.cnn.com/2...s.ap/index.html ) and all over the net.

There have been sightings in the news for decades, I always hope we can have actual contact in my lifetime--I suppose if any races are watching us, most likely we are just too primitive with all our war and inequality...

I have been following the reports of this sighting too. One thing I have not seen mentioned in any of the reports is that there's a nuclear power plant about 20 miles away in Glenrose.

This story has been in the local news everyday since the sighting. Investigates from around the country have converged on Stephenville and have been interviewing the witnesses. One investigator from Colorado ask the FAA for the records from the radar, but was told there's nothing on the radar, so you can't see them. He said he's going to have to file a request through the FOI act.

The general conscious of most of the witnesses seems to be, that it wasn't a plane of helicopter. Most of them think it was some kind of unknown government craft. Some pretty good images have turned up from cell phones that have been on TV in the last day or two. In the town everyone is selling T shirts with aliens on them.

Personally, I think it's most likely a government craft.

[Ghostrider]

So if spacecrafts from outside this planet were actually see, so what? How would that change anything? If we were actually visited, then we were visited by more intelligent life forms. However, if they were more intelligent, they could simply observe us remotely (via the satellite television, anything else broadcasted into space). In fact, they would probably get a very bad impression from doing this and would probably either destroy us or more likely just ignore us. But in any case, what would we do? Try to signal them to help us?

[forever freedom]

On the topic of "abductions".

I have to wonder how hundreds of thousands of people disappear annually to the grace of human trafficking, and no one seems to notice, yet when a single human is kidnapped by an interstellar race, somehow everyone and their uncle seems to be aware of the hows and whens.

Of course. People disappearing because of traffic is normal. But there is no comparison between the notoriousity of someone being abducted and someone being kidnapped by people in the traffic.

I would think that any civilizaton that was capable of space travel would also be capable of being at least a little bit more covert than that. And why would they even release the people in the first place? All the fun stuff involves dissection.

We can't possibly know their reasons. If they're advanced enough to make interstellar travels, we can't possibly try to guess with any accuracy what they're thinking.

If they're here, you say that they should be more covert. Well i think that if they're here they're doing a great covert job. Obviously sometimes they make some mistakes and their ships or whatever it is ends up being seen for some moments, but it must not be easy to be all around yet completely invisible to an 6.5 billion intelligent species civilization. No one is perfect i guess, not even our grey friends.

And i think they release people because maybe after they've done their experiments they don't want to kill them. Maybe they've got great morals, who knows. Normally, the more advanced the civilization is, the better their moral code is. And after all, as the saying goes, "the best way to hide an unbelievable truth is making it obvious, so others will think it's not real".

Not to mention what reasons they would have for not actually getting in contact?

There are many reasons they wouldn't want to get in contact with us, one of the could be that they want to study us and our planet first without being bothered with questions and demands from the winy "alien race".

[Ghostrider]

If they wanted to study us, they probably have the technology to do that remotely, or at least without having to penetrate the atmosphere. Heck, they are probably have some system setup to monitor this conversation. Maybe they would intervene to save us or our planet from destruction.

[basho]

If they wanted to study us, they probably have the technology to do that remotely, or at least without having to penetrate the atmosphere.

At least you'd think they'd blanket the planet with a network of tiny nanotech level probes that we wouldn't notice. They could even make them look exactly like insects down to the cellular level so we wouldn't be suspicious. Insects are all over the place. That tiny fly on the toilet wall could be an alien monitoring device transmitting your actions back for analysis.

Maybe they would intervene to save us or our planet from destruction.

Maybe they already have?

[platypus]

I would think that any civilizaton that was capable of space travel would also be capable of being at least a little bit more covert than that. And why would they even release the people in the first place? All the fun stuff involves dissection.

If they're here, you say that they should be more covert. Well i think that if they're here they're doing a great covert job. Obviously sometimes they make some mistakes and their ships or whatever it is ends up being seen for some moments, but it must not be easy to be all around yet completely invisible to an 6.5 billion intelligent species civilization. No one is perfect i guess, not even our grey friends.

After all these years the number of known alien artefacts on Earth is still zero. This points to the direction that the aliens are not here. I don't think it's plausible to think that they never make gross mistakes, or are they perhaps demigods?

[marcopolo]

I would think that any civilizaton that was capable of space travel would also be capable of being at least a little bit more covert than that. And why would they even release the people in the first place? All the fun stuff involves dissection.

If they're here, you say that they should be more covert. Well i think that if they're here they're doing a great covert job. Obviously sometimes they make some mistakes and their ships or whatever it is ends up being seen for some moments, but it must not be easy to be all around yet completely invisible to an 6.5 billion intelligent species civilization. No one is perfect i guess, not even our grey friends.

After all these years the number of known alien artefacts on Earth is still zero. This points to the direction that the aliens are not here. I don't think it's plausible to think that they never make gross mistakes, or are they perhaps demigods?

Why would they leave any evidence for us to study? If a probe or two or more entered our atmosphere without crashing, unless they deliberately left something behind that is obvious for us to spot, they would not leave any physical evidence.

If they're here, you say that they should be more covert. Well i think that if they're here they're doing a great covert job. Obviously sometimes they make some mistakes and their ships or whatever it is ends up being seen for some moments, but it must not be easy to be all around yet completely invisible to an 6.5 billion intelligent species civilization. No one is perfect i guess, not even our grey friends.

And i think they release people because maybe after they've done their experiments they don't want to kill them. Maybe they've got great morals, who knows. Normally, the more advanced the civilization is, the better their moral code is. And after all, as the saying goes, "the best way to hide an unbelievable truth is making it obvious, so others will think it's not real".

Perhaps they don't care one way or the other whether or not we see them. They don't go out of their way to contact us nor do they go out of their way to hide from us. If they sent something like a NASA sized probe, but that can enter the atmosphere, land, and leave at will without leaving a booster rocket behind, then a flyby or brief landing on this planet would be exactly what we would see, and be reported as a UFO sighting . Now alien abductions, I am much more skeptical of the reports of this. First, abducting someone and giving them an anal probe isn't exactly what I would think a morally advanced civilization would do lol. Seriously, if these abduction reports are true, then there is probably no such future in nanotechnology or any of the other post singularity technologies being speculated about by many people on this board. Why? Because the kind of medical examinations being reported in the alleged abductions are quite primitive and invasive compared to what a nanotech/post singularity civilization could perform. Think about it, why would they need to poke at peoples eyes, insert drills down peoples nostrils, use scalpels and other medical devices equivalent to todays medical technology if they can do a much better job using nanoprobes to examine a human body? Why hasn't any of the abductees(to my knowledge) even reported something so much as an fMRI? Why are so many of the reported medical experiments done to these people sexual in nature? And why would they need to abduct literally hundreds of thousands of people? That doesn't make sense to me, and doesn't fit with post singularity level tech very well eitherIMO.
There is only one thing we know for certain, and that is that it is possible in this universe to evolve/generate intelligent lifeforms such as ourselves.

Edited by marcopolo, 23 January 2008 - 02:07 AM.

[platypus]

After all these years the number of known alien artefacts on Earth is still zero. This points to the direction that the aliens are not here. I don't think it's plausible to think that they never make gross mistakes, or are they perhaps demigods?

Why would they leave any evidence for us to study? If a probe or two or more entered our atmosphere without crashing, unless they deliberately left something behind that is obvious for us to spot, they would not leave any physical evidence.

So you're implying the aliens have visited us fo millennia without leaving a single artefact here? Not even a clothespin, a bolt or a gum-wrapper? That's not very believeable in my opinion.

[Matt]

I love alien and ufo topics...

I need to buy x files series 4! ....

[Matt]

See this video

Michio Kaku On Aliens, On Physics ...
http://video.google....5...h&plindex=1

Michio Kaku On Civilizations Types I,II & III
http://video.google....5...h&plindex=1

Both are very interesting and clearly explained :D

Edited by Matt, 23 January 2008 - 11:54 PM.

[william7]

Excellent videos Matt. I'm showing them to my religious buddies. The way I figure it, it's not that far a leap from alien civilizations a million years more advanced than us, to them being the God of the Bible giving us a helping hand by giving us a little bit of their super technology and the knowledge and wisdom to handle it safely.

[biknut]

basho--hah!


I'm in Texas, and actually heard a lot about this case--I was surprised to see it mentioned on the local T.V. news in Austin, as well as see it on CNN ( http://www.cnn.com/2...s.ap/index.html ) and all over the net.

There have been sightings in the news for decades, I always hope we can have actual contact in my lifetime--I suppose if any races are watching us, most likely we are just too primitive with all our war and inequality...

I have been following the reports of this sighting too. One thing I have not seen mentioned in any of the reports is that there's a nuclear power plant about 20 miles away in Glenrose.

This story has been in the local news everyday since the sighting. Investigates from around the country have converged on Stephenville and have been interviewing the witnesses. One investigator from Colorado ask the FAA for the records from the radar, but was told there's nothing on the radar, so you can't see them. He said he's going to have to file a request through the FOI act.

The general conscious of most of the witnesses seems to be, that it wasn't a plane of helicopter. Most of them think it was some kind of unknown government craft. Some pretty good images have turned up from cell phones that have been on TV in the last day or two. In the town everyone is selling T shirts with aliens on them.

Personally, I think it's most likely a government craft.

This story was in the news again today. Now the military is saying, oh yeah,we forgot. We were flying reserve training missions over Stephenville that day. That's kind of interesting because some of the original witnesses said that it looked like military jets were chasing a UFO.

[Shannon Vyff]

This was in the recent New Scientist (not the same story from TX, but very interesting regarding UFO's and one man's belief):

"A Las Vegas real-estate billionaire with an active interest in the paranormal, Robert Bigelow might seem an unlikely candidate to transform the commercial space industry. Yet he is making an impact. In 2006 his company, Bigelow Aerospace, launched a small prototype inflatable space station into orbit around the Earth, followed by a second in 2007. By 2010 he aims to have full-sized orbiting stations available for lease to paying customers who want to carry out research in space. He outlines his vision to David Shiga, and explains how UFOs helped kick it all off

What inspired you and got you excited about space?

I am old enough to remember Sputnik, but that wasn't the real impetus for me. I was born and raised in Las Vegas, and in my early childhood the city was a strange place. Scientists were working 75 miles away detonating nuclear bombs above ground. My friends and I saw many blasts when we were kids - many mushroom clouds, day and night. The other peculiar thing was the frequent sightings of UFOs by members of my family, as well as by friends and their parents.

I got the message from all this that there was a lot out there that we knew nothing about, and the UFO reports made me think that our rocket age must be very immature compared to these other things that were flying around. So I embarked on a lifetime quest to get into space if I possibly could. Rather than starting out as a scientist on my own, I thought I might be able to do more if I had financial resources. That was the main driver for getting into the real-estate world, where it is easier to make large sums of money than, say, as an attorney.

At what point did you decide you were ready to go for your dream?

When I turned 55, I decided I wasn't getting any younger and that I'd better start getting really serious about this. I had enough money, so I decided to start searching for the right thing to invest in. I found out the hard way that buying into other people's companies was not a good idea at all. Most of the folks running small aerospace companies had no business skills. They had never run companies before, much less generated a positive cash flow.

Then I came across a magazine article that talked about NASA's TransHab programme, aimed at designing an inflatable module that would provide crew quarters for the international space station, and I thought, "This is a really slick invention, it has so much potential." Then I couldn't believe it when Congress decided to cut the funds and stop NASA from pursuing the project. To cut a long story short, I went after that programme and we eventually acquired the licences that NASA had. I founded my company in 1999, although we worked for two to three years without any licences and it didn't really get going until 2002.

You've emphasised that you are not in the space-hotel business. So what is your business about?

Our business case is not based on tourism, nor on servicing NASA. Tourism and NASA may be a part of it, but they alone would not sustain a robust business activity. We are looking to the corporate world, to lease modules to major companies. They don't even have to buy them. Our main focus will be on serving professional astronauts and companies that want to do laboratory research in space or ones with other reasons to lease a module.

What sort of companies do you expect to be interested?

It could be pharmaceutical companies, or companies that offer services to hospitals and clinics. It could be companies doing R&D on nanotechnologies, or on all kinds of things. All the services they need would be incorporated into the lease agreement. Our own astronaut group would provide a lot of the services that the companies required on board, such as the labour and maintenance.

Are you willing to lose some money to achieve your goal?

I recognise that everything I have spent so far and what I might spend in the future could all be for nothing. I didn't get into this to make money. If I just wanted to die a well-off individual and that was my only goal in life, then I would have stayed in the businesses that I have been in for 40 years. I would not have ventured out. Potentially there is a huge reward and earning capacity, but the risk is enormous. So yes, I could stand to lose an awful lot, but that is part of the recipe. If you are not willing to take on that kind of risk, then don't be in the game.

“I recognise everything I have spent so far could all be for nothing”
Do you think you will go into space someday yourself?

I would like to. I hope so.

What do you do in your free time?

I read a lot. I go to some ranches that I have. I like getting out in the desert and driving around. I know this area so well: I have been everywhere there is to go in southern Nevada and parts of Arizona, so I don't do that as often as I used to. I used to go bird hunting, but I don't really do that any more. When I started to deliberately miss my shots I knew my time was over. But my work is my hobby - aerospace really is my hobby.

How serious is your interest in the paranormal?

I have been actively involved in paranormal research for over 20 years. By that I mean I have funded my own organisation and other people's. The paranormal basket is quite sizeable. There are many subsets, and each could consume an entire lifetime of investigation. The UFO issue is just one of them. I recently attended a talk on remote viewing - the idea of being given a set of longitude and latitude coordinates and being able to determine what's at that intersection without actually being there. It's a type of psychic phenomenon.

Those kinds of subjects are fascinating to me. They are not explainable in any kind of normal scientific or medical context. I have been fascinated by that for decades, and have been closely involved in all kinds of programmes. I was a director for a number of years at the Rhine Research Center at Durham, North Carolina. It really is a lot of fun, and it's another area of exploration, as is space.


Sputnik’s Legacy - Learn more about humanity’s first 50 years in space in our special report.

From issue 2638 of New Scientist magazine, 14 January 2008, page 42-43
Profile

Robert Bigelow graduated from Arizona State University in 1967 with a BSc in business administration. He made his fortune by founding the hotel chain Budget Suites of America in 1988. In 1995 he created the National Institute for Discovery Science to investigate reports of UFOs. He founded Bigelow Aerospace in 1999."

[niner]

This was in the recent New Scientist (not the same story from TX, but very interesting regarding UFO's and one man's belief):

"A Las Vegas real-estate billionaire with an active interest in the paranormal, Robert Bigelow might seem an unlikely candidate to transform the commercial space industry. Yet he is making an impact. In 2006 his company, Bigelow Aerospace, launched a small prototype inflatable space station into orbit around the Earth, followed by a second in 2007. By 2010 he aims to have full-sized orbiting stations available for lease to paying customers who want to carry out research in space. He outlines his vision to David Shiga, and explains how UFOs helped kick it all off

Well, I wish Mr. Bigelow all the luck in the world, but so far space has proven to be pretty much useless for industrial R&D. They pimped the ISS with this concept, and it's largely been used for the NASA equivalent of high school science projects. One of the big hopes was that it would be a lot easier to grow crystals of macromolecules in microgravity, but that turned out to be a flop. I think that aside from servicing satellites or building other space thingies, that space tourism is probably the best business opportunity. It's a good thing that this guy has a lot of money and doesn't care if he loses it.

BTW, where can we see a picture of that WalMart-sized UFO that was hanging around in Texas? (Is it possible that it was a WalMart?)

[biknut]

Here's a story about the Texas UFO from yesterdays Dallas Morning News

Military's report of planes flying in area of UFO reports is fueling debate

11:53 PM CST on Wednesday, January 23, 2008

By JEFFREY WEISS / The Dallas Morning News
jweiss@dallasnews.com

The U.S. military has owned up to having F-16 fighters in the air near Stephenville on the night that several residents reported unusual lights in the sky. But the correction issued Wednesday doesn't exactly turn UFOs into Identified Flying Objects.

Several dozen witnesses reported that they had seen unusual lights in the sky near Stephenville shortly after dusk Jan. 8. One sighting included a report that the lights were pursued by military jets. Military officials had repeatedly denied they had any flights in the area that night.

But that position changed Wednesday with a terse news release:

"In the interest of public awareness, Air Force Reserve Command Public Affairs realized an error was made regarding the reported training activity of military aircraft. Ten F-16s from the 457th Fighter Squadron were performing training operations from 6 to 8 p.m., Tuesday January 8, 2008, in the Brownwood Military Operating Area (MOA), which includes the airspace above Erath County."

Maj. Karl Lewis, a spokesman for the 301st Fighter Wing at the former Carswell Field, blamed the erroneous release on "an internal communications error."

That still left unanswered the question of what F-16s might have been doing that would look like a line of silent, glowing spheres. Maj. Lewis said he could not give any details.

"What we do down there falls under operational procedures that cannot be released because of operations security for our mission," he said.

One battle tactic used routinely by F-16s involves the ejection of flares that are intended to confuse heat-seeking missiles. The flares can be ejected several at a time, and could form a pattern of bright lights traveling across the sky.

But such activity would not match other aspects of the descriptions of the Stephenville lights. Witnesses generally described what they saw as silent, apparently changing speeds and passing over populated areas. That does not sound like a flare release, said Jay Miller, an aviation consultant and historian in Fort Worth.

For one thing, any jet that dumps flares would also be trying to get away as fast as possible.

"He's going to be in full afterburner," Mr. Miller said, and that's very loud. But the jets wouldn't be the only noise associated with flares.

"Flares don't burn silently. They actually burn quite loudly," he said.

Flares are also extremely hot and dangerous, and it's highly unlikely that any drill would involve their use over populated areas, Mr. Miller said.

Wednesday's news release refocused attention on the lights a few days after more than 500 people attended a meeting intended to gather witness statements. The weekend meeting was hosted by the Mutual UFO Network, which collected more than 200 reports, though many were not about the recent sightings.

The military's admission that it had jets up in the area actually strengthens the credibility of some of the reports, said Ken Cherry, Texas state director for the network. After all, some of the witnesses had said they had seen military aircraft along with the lights.

"We have witnesses who could clearly distinguish the difference between an F-16 and some extraordinary craft performing in a manner not typical of an aircraft," he said.

Steve Allen, a pilot, was one of three men who first went public with their sightings to the local newspaper. Wednesday's military news release answers none of his questions, he said.

The Brownwood Military Operating Area is not close enough to Stephenville to explain what he saw, Mr. Allen said. And pilots are supposed to perform training exercises at high altitude, he said. What he saw happened near the ground.

He said he and his friends first spotted a row of glowing spheres that silently changed formation before vanishing. A few minutes later, they saw two more glowing spheres, with military jets in hot pursuit.

"They were on the deck and with the pedal down," he said.

Mr. Allen said that he had no trouble hearing the roar from the jets when they appeared, but he had heard nothing from the glowing lights before that.

"A bunch of stuff is bubbling up," he said about Wednesday's news release. "They may have to tell us the truth."

http://www.dallasnew...o.4f269ff6.html

[marcopolo]

After all these years the number of known alien artefacts on Earth is still zero. This points to the direction that the aliens are not here. I don't think it's plausible to think that they never make gross mistakes, or are they perhaps demigods?

Why would they leave any evidence for us to study? If a probe or two or more entered our atmosphere without crashing, unless they deliberately left something behind that is obvious for us to spot, they would not leave any physical evidence.

So you're implying the aliens have visited us fo millennia without leaving a single artefact here? Not even a clothespin, a bolt or a gum-wrapper? That's not very believeable in my opinion.

First you are assuming they visited us millennia ago, it is just as likely they have only visited in the last 50 years or so. If they did visit millinia ago, and they did leave artifacts behind, there is no reason to think that we would have found them by now. The world is a big place. Going back far enough in time, it becomes progressively more difficult to find stuff. What if our entire civilization happened 65 million years ago, how much of that would be left for us to find today? Finding fossils of specific species of animals in the fossil record is hard enough, and the species found probably were alive for millions of years, and our species has existed 'only' about 100,000-200,000 years, our civilization for about 5,000. It is problematic finding fossils of our ancestors from even a few million years ago, with many missing links and the ones that are found the bones tend to be extremely rare or one of a kind. So how much more difficult would it be to find a single or a few artifacts from that time period? Perhaps the aliens were here for just a few weeks and left some garbage or similar. Good luck finding that in the fossil record, even just a few thousand years back, and it would be much less likely as we go back in deep time that we would find evidence of an ancient alien landing.

[braz]

I don't beleive that "UFOS" are little green men in flying saucers, largely anthropomorphic and who love to abduct cows and even sometimes humans for their shady experiments often involving anal probes. My father who is a scientist has been involved with UFO research for about 30 years now believes that UFOs are a non-carbon based form of life, possibly electromagnetic, who "live" right here besides us, but are much more advanced and completely different in their ways of sentience. UFOs seem to have mastered spacetime travel and control, along with energy production to levels unimaginable. There have been quite numerous cases of UFO observation, but there were no reliable cases of direct contact. This makes sense, because a cockroach is not going to be able to contact with a human being, just like a human being will not be able to contact with a form of life which is completely different and much more advanced. There is no real advancement in UFO research, because humans are simply not able to control the situation in any ways.

Some UFOlogists believe that UFO are simply occasional observers of human and animal life on planet earth. Some think that UFOs do interact with human and are even involved on a large scale intervention.

I think that UFOs are being so vastly different from us, that contact is simply very hard or impossible. I received some good insights after reading Stanislav Lem's "Solaris" (please avoid the hollywood version of the movie). I think the point he was trying to make is that alien life, even though it could seem anthropomorphic, in reality could be unimaginably different. This is my opinion.

Any takes on this?

[basho]

I think that UFOs are being so vastly different from us, that contact is simply very hard or impossible. I received some good insights after reading Stanislav Lem's "Solaris" (please avoid the hollywood version of the movie). I think the point he was trying to make is that alien life, even though it could seem anthropomorphic, in reality could be unimaginably different. This is my opinion.

Any takes on this?

I vaguely recall a science article I read a while ago that investigated the constraints that the laws of physics placed on the range of possible evolutionary morphologies. Basically, the conclusion was that any alien species should be quite comprehensible to us since their evolution would have been subject to the same physical laws despite the range of possible environmental differences. This, of course, did not take into account the possibility of a technological singularity.

[william7]

I think that UFOs are being so vastly different from us, that contact is simply very hard or impossible.

I thought you were an anti-God atheist who doesn't believe in anything supernatural?

Basically, the conclusion was that any alien species should be quite comprehensible to us since their evolution would have been subject to the same physical laws despite the range of possible environmental differences. This, of course, did not take into account the possibility of a technological singularity.

So, there shouldn't be any problem with life developing in some other universe or dimension and going through a singularity and becoming like God to us underdeveloped, nonsingularity mortals on earth then?

[Shannon Vyff]

That doesn't mean we should worship them. Also, if they are so intelligent that they have space travel and are watching us--then clearly they have reasons for not contacting or annihilation us, possibly waiting till a 'proper' time in history per some sort of intergalactic 'hands off' directive till some major thing a species accomplishes (what species create/become after they have A.G.I. perhaps?)... But we have no evidence for sure of aliens, perhaps there someday will be. Also, they better have good reasons--if there are aliens with advanced technology, for letting our suffering and dying go on for every day that it does. That alone, makes me think they are not very good beings.

[braz]

[

I think that UFOs are being so vastly different from us, that contact is simply very hard or impossible.

I thought you were an anti-God atheist who doesn't believe in anything supernatural?

"UFOs" would still be confined to laws of physics, and therefore are not supernatural or magical, and there is some evidence for their existance, which in my opinion, is much stronger then ANY evidence for a Judeo-Christianic God.

Also, don't make it sound like I am an "anti-God" wicked sinner who will burn forever in the pits of hell. You are most likely assuming that I am "anti-God", or anti good, light, compassion, understanding, love..etc. Such is not the case. I am anti believing into an invisible magical being whose purposes are modeled after our own and who sets rules and expecations for us, while at the same time being the creator of all physical and spiritual reality.

Here's an an analogy: A blind man cannot understand what color "red" is. In a likely manner, a human being cannot understand the mentality and nature of UFOs and many other things in the universe.

[william7]

Also, they better have good reasons--if there are aliens with advanced technology, for letting our suffering and dying go on for every day that it does.

I think they think we're too morally retarded at this stage for the sophisticated technology they possess. We would probably destroy ourselves and them too.

possibly waiting till a 'proper' time in history

That's what I believe too.

[william7]

UFOs" would still be confined to laws of physics, and therefore are not supernatural or magical, and there is some evidence for their existance,

What if they're from another dimension and order a totally different set of physical laws and they produce what we consider to be supernatural?

which in my opinion, is much stronger then ANY evidence for a Judeo-Christianic God.

The evidence for UFOs and advanced aliens should make us want to take a closer look at the God of the Bible and consider whether this isn't the aliens preferred method of communicating with us instead of by the radio signals the SETI scientists are looking for. Just like Michio Kaku said in the videos Matt posted above, a type III civilization would have extreme difficulty communicating with a type I and vice versa. May be the aliens gave us a book and we should be reading it very carefully.

Also, don't make it sound like I am an "anti-God" wicked sinner who will burn forever in the pits of hell.

Hey, I know you're a good guy and follow the laws of God wholeheartedly.

Here's an an analogy: A blind man cannot understand what color "red" is. In a likely manner, a human being cannot understand the mentality and nature of UFOs and many other things in the universe.

Very good analogy! Using your reasoning we should be very slow to dismiss the existence of the God of the Bible.

[solbanger]

If you want to find out if there is truth to the abduction phenom investigate the story of Peter Khoury. He claims to have found a strand of alien hair left on him after an encounter in Australia and needless to say they sent it in for DNA testing. He claims he was woken up by two naked half-human females on his bed, when one of them drew him close he bit off a piece of her nipple. The platinum blonde woman (or woman-thing) did not react, but when Peter started coughing the two of them vanished. Peter then blacked out then woke up feeling a raw sensation in his genitals. Wrapped around his penis were two strands of light blonde hair. He saved them and brought them to UFO investigator Bill Chalker who later suggested DNA testing. The results showed that the hairs were human with Chinese mongoloid ancestry yet they were blonde/clear in color. Chalker has a blog setup with the findings. He is gathering money for further testing.



http://www.bibliotec...adedanaan06.htm

Chalker's analysis when considering HIV resistance.

http://theozfiles.bl...ion-factor.html

[braz]

UFOs" would still be confined to laws of physics, and therefore are not supernatural or magical, and there is some evidence for their existance,

What if they're from another dimension and order a totally different set of physical laws and they produce what we consider to be supernatural?

Maybe. Maybe the universe is a dream of a supreme galactic demon in pink pants. Also sounds supernatural, doesn't it? Well, prove that the demon doesn't exist. There is no reason to assume anything that is not supported by hard, clear evidence, and not by vague guesses, hopes, and centrally anthropomorphics ideas.

which in my opinion, is much stronger then ANY evidence for a Judeo-Christianic God.

The evidence for UFOs and advanced aliens should make us want to take a closer look at the God of the Bible and consider whether this isn't the aliens preferred method of communicating with us instead of by the radio signals the SETI scientists are looking for. Just like Michio Kaku said in the videos Matt posted above, a type III civilization would have extreme difficulty communicating with a type I and vice versa. May be the aliens gave us a book and we should be reading it very carefully.

Not sure how you came up with that idea either. The evidence for UFO's and advanced aliens should make us study more science in attempt to understand what life really is and how and to what differences and extents it evolves within the universe. If you really believe that the Bible is a work of some supremely advanced grey-haired Aliens who thought of no better manner to initiate the contact between themselves and the human kind, then all I can say is wow and applaud the twist and turn of your imagination.

Also, don't make it sound like I am an "anti-God" wicked sinner who will burn forever in the pits of hell.

Hey, I know you're a good guy and follow the laws of God wholeheartedly.

Thanks for that, but I call it ethics and common sense, stemming from the evolutionary development of human nature. Also, some of the "laws" of God are so ridiculous and stupid that I find no greater pleasure then breaking such laws everyday =)

Here's an an analogy: A blind man cannot understand what color "red" is. In a likely manner, a human being cannot understand the mentality and nature of UFOs and many other things in the universe.

Very good analogy! Using your reasoning we should be very slow to dismiss the existence of the God of the Bible.

Using the same reasoning, I fail to understand how you are so quick to dismiss the existance of Zeus.

Sigh Elijah...why do you always try to shift scales in favor of your opinion about the God of the Bible, no matter how contradicting and elusive the subject is for you =)

Look: What I am talking about here is an independently evolved form of life, completely unanthropomorphic, possibly of electromagnetic base. There is no evidence for their care or involvement in human concerns, and trying to link UFO to the Bible is like trying to build a stone tower to take a better look at the stars.

Edited by braz, 31 January 2008 - 05:37 AM.

[basho]

UFOs" would still be confined to laws of physics, and therefore are not supernatural or magical, and there is some evidence for their existance,

What if they're from another dimension and order a totally different set of physical laws and they produce what we consider to be supernatural?

Even if these hypothetical beings found a way to tunnel through to our Universe, they'd still be constrained by the physical laws of this Universe and would therefore have to map themselves into a form that is compatible with those laws if they wished to interact in any way with our baryonic world. I'm not sure if it would be possible to actually change the physical laws within a localized region of space-time, but if they could it may cause a bit of a mess of the surrounding environment. And imagine if they got their calculations reversed and instantiated as anti-matter? Boooooooooom!