190 replies to this topic

[niner]

Glenn Greenwald made a very interesting point: Why do "America Hating" White Evangelical preachers get embraced by the Right, while Jeremiah Wright is reviled? The following is from Greenwald's blog.

Frank Schaeffer, son of highly influential Religious Right figure Francis Schaeffer, writes:

"When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr."

He goes on to chronicle his father's long history of extreme "America-hating" statements, ones which never caused Republicans to repudiate him, and says: "Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits."

Yet Schaeffer, like hordes of similar, America-hating white Christian ministers, are celebrated as cherished figures among the very same right-wing faction feigning such outrage and offense over Wright's far more mild statements. White, right-wing Christian evangelical rage against America is understandable, respectable, and noble. Liberal black Christian anger towards America is scary, subversive, and despicable.

[aim1]

A guy that uses his widowed grandmother as a prop and throws her under the bus...

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street..."

What a class act!

Oh and I remember this quote:


"There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." — the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96

[missminni]

I'm answering within your quote:

I just saw Obama's speech about Wright.
I can hardly believe that America learned something new from it. Yes, it
describes the mentality of anger and resentment that comes from racism,
but it's not like we haven't heard this a million times before. It's old hat.
I guess him saying it as a presidential candidate is refreshing in a way, but
he was backed into a corner.
This speech is not going to change the minds of people who were undecided and
not going to win back the people who were shocked by Wrights sermons.
Comparing this speech to King's I Had A Dream speech is absurd.
There is no comparison. Kings speech was inspired, visionary and transcendent beyond any
speech I ever heard before or since. Obama's was merely an attempt to save his
ass with a Racism 101 lecture.

Who is comparing today's speech with King's?
all the talking heads
I'm already kind of annoyed that I didn't go see it, since I was not that far away... But come on. I have heard no one say such a thing. I will say that what little I heard was good. I think that he's handled this problem very well. I'm not denying that it's a political sh*tstorm.
I heard the whole thing from beginning to end. He was bailing with dignity.

The real issue, which seems to be avoided by the talking heads on TV right now, is that
Obama lied when first asked if he knew Wright made racist sermons. His knee jerk reaction
was to lie. I guess that's what makes him presidential material.

What makes you think it was a lie? I still don't think that Wright "makes racist sermons". You said yourself that you share much of Wright's viewpoint, but you're not a racist. I listened to the videos a couple times, and it's not like they're full of lies. He's not a Farrakhan. They had to troll though years of his sermons to find a few lines that are over the top.
Niner, Wrights famous for those sermons. Yeah, I agree with him, but I'm not running for president and to be honest, I am not a fan of white/european culture. In fact, very much the opposite. And he did lie when first asked if he ever was at a sermon where Wright made those kind of remarks. He said NO. In his speech he said YES because he knows they are going to drag out some footage of him there. The point I am making is that Obama, who might very well make a good president, can't win with this association. Stick a fork in him. He's done.

His "good judgement", which he's been touting as a response to his lack of experience,
is certainly open to challenge now.
Although I actually share much of Wrights viewpoint, I don't think the majority of
Americans do. In fact, quite the contrary.
If Obama's camp thinks they've overcome this issue, they better
think again. This is not going away. "God damn America" is just unacceptable. The racist remarks pale by comparison.
If he wins the nomination, it's going to come back around
with fangs.

"God damn America" is taken out of context, but yeah, people are pretty bent about it. Whether or not this has been overcome remains to be seen. I honestly don't know if this has turned the tide or not. At least McCain is not the worst possible person on Earth, since if Obama goes down, he's gonna be the next president. I wish you were not so angry about Obama that you could perceive what is really happening in this race. There is an active effort on the part of Republicans in Pennsylvania to get Republican voters to register as Democrats and vote for Hillary. Rush Limbaugh was telling Texans to do the same thing. Does that really sound like the Republicans want to run against Obama?
And Biknut voted for Obama in Texas. so what. Republicans want to make democrats look like idiots. They really don't have to try very hard. Democrats are there own worst enemy. They should have known the Wright stuff would surface. This isn't the election they should have been taking chances with. They should have united behind Hillary, who is a known entity with no major hidden achilles heel, and run Obama in the next election. This is about winning the election, not what a great guy Obama is or isn't. Personally, I am not all that impressed with him as a speaker
or a thinker. When he included his white grandma in the same category with Rev Wright I nearly gagged. And his ending bit about the poor white girl named Ashley and her relish and mustard sandwich was pathetic pandering. You need to listen to the whole speech.
The sound bits are just that. Bits. Obama is highly overrated and the bottom line is he's not ready for prime time and prime time is not ready for him.

[missminni]

Glenn Greenwald made a very interesting point: Why do "America Hating" White Evangelical preachers get embraced by the Right, while Jeremiah Wright is reviled? The following is from Greenwald's blog.

Frank Schaeffer, son of highly influential Religious Right figure Francis Schaeffer, writes:

"When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr."

He goes on to chronicle his father's long history of extreme "America-hating" statements, ones which never caused Republicans to repudiate him, and says: "Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits."

Yet Schaeffer, like hordes of similar, America-hating white Christian ministers, are celebrated as cherished figures among the very same right-wing faction feigning such outrage and offense over Wright's far more mild statements. White, right-wing Christian evangelical rage against America is understandable, respectable, and noble. Liberal black Christian anger towards America is scary, subversive, and despicable.

I totally agree with you, but the reality is that's the way it is, and the democrats need a reality check. They should have presented a united front from day one. This election shouldn't have been about Barak Obama. It should have been about a democrat winning. Being that women are 51% of the population, and Hillary already had the popularity and presence, she was the obvious choice.
It's too bad jealousy and misogyny blinded their common sense.

[inawe]

Inawe, you're presenting this as fact. I'm guessing it's a joke, but I'm not sure everyone is going to see it that way. Would you like to clarify?

It's getting harder and harder to tell what's the truth and what's a joke. Had somebody told me that a nationally public figure is claiming the historical Jesus of 2000 years ago is 25% of the Christ while he himself is the other 75% of the Christ, I would have thought it was a joke. Yet, I watched the video of Farrakhan claiming precisely that.
If I was then told that this Farrakhan was awarded a lifetime achievement award by an important Christian church, I would have thought it was a joke also. But yet, that's precisely what happened. The preacher Jeremiah Wright, who doesn't hesitate in condemning all whites for everything, was awarding the price to that racist hate monger Farrakhan.
If I was told that a politician running for president attended that church for 20 years and didn't object to Jeremiah's sermons, I would have thought it was a joke. That this politician regards Jeremiah as his mentor is close to impossible to believe.
Unfortunately, all of those things are true and the joke is on us.
I cannot stand what the Repugnant party stands for. But with Obama as the Democratic candidate I'm afraid the Repugnants are going to win. Believe it or not, this is very painful for me.

Now I have a question for you Niner: Why are you willing to excuse anything that Obama and his friens did or are doing?

[niner]

Inawe, you're presenting this as fact. I'm guessing it's a joke, but I'm not sure everyone is going to see it that way. Would you like to clarify?

It's getting harder and harder to tell what's the truth and what's a joke. Had somebody told me that a nationally public figure is claiming the historical Jesus of 2000 years ago is 25% of the Christ while he himself is the other 75% of the Christ, I would have thought it was a joke. Yet, I watched the video of Farrakhan claiming precisely that.
If I was then told that this Farrakhan was awarded a lifetime achievement award by an important Christian church, I would have thought it was a joke also. But yet, that's precisely what happened. The preacher Jeremiah Wright, who doesn't hesitate in condemning all whites for everything, was awarding the price to that racist hate monger Farrakhan.
If I was told that a politician running for president attended that church for 20 years and didn't object to Jeremiah's sermons, I would have thought it was a joke. That this politician regards Jeremiah as his mentor is close to impossible to believe.
Unfortunately, all of those things are true and the joke is on us.
I cannot stand what the Repugnant party stands for. But with Obama as the Democratic candidate I'm afraid the Repugnants are going to win. Believe it or not, this is very painful for me.

You still haven't said whether or not what you presented was truth or a joke. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but I'm not sure everyone who reads it will. I think that is harmful. So the main problem here, if I understand what you're saying, is that Wright's church gave an award to Farrakhan, who we both agree is a racist jerk.

Now I have a question for you Niner: Why are you willing to excuse anything that Obama and his friens did or are doing?

I would not and don't excuse anything they do. I look at what Republicans have done, what the Clintons have done, and what Obama and his people have done, and Obama still comes up looking like the best candidate for America. I have heard that both ABC and Fox News are in possession of video of all of Wright's sermons. Yet out of all that, there are only three soundbites that we keep hearing over and over. Even those, once you take into account the cadence and delivery that are typical of the Black Church, and seem to be very scary to White people, and you actually listen to the words, in context; I find very little there to get upset about. I don't agree with some of Wright's tinfoil hat nonsense, and I think that Farrakhan is a dangerous jerk, but I think that most of this is just politics, political theater designed to anger, inflame, and scare white people into voting for John McCain. And it's working pretty well so far.

[niner]

A guy that uses his widowed grandmother as a prop and throws her under the bus...

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street..."

What a class act!

Obama just had an honest talk with America about race. The elephant in the room. Name one other politician who has ever done that. A great many people were very impressed with that speech, but some people are still not yet ready to deal with race honestly. Some people are GOP trolls...

[missminni]

A guy that uses his widowed grandmother as a prop and throws her under the bus...

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street..."

What a class act!

Obama just had an honest talk with America about race. The elephant in the room. Name one other politician who has ever done that. A great many people were very impressed with that speech, but some people are still not yet ready to deal with race honestly. Some people are GOP trolls...

Race is not the elephant. Rev. Wright is. Obama has shown a serious lack of judgement. To think he could run for president with somebody like Rev. Wright, the author of his campaign slogan The Audacity of Hope, on his campaign committee and looming large in his personal life was naive at best. I guess that's his audacity of hope. It's just plain old common sense to know that would surface and would certainly be seriously damaging. What was he thinking? Oh that's right, he wasn't. He was busy being propped up and adored by a bunch of old loser democrats with personal agendas. I hope the Clintons can pull the democrats out of the trap they just fell in. Otherwise we are stuck
with a senile Republican who admittedly knows nothing about economics, or the difference between Sunis and Shi'ites.

[inawe]

You still haven't said whether or not what you presented was truth or a joke. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but I'm not sure everyone who reads it will. I think that is harmful. So the main problem here, if I understand what you're saying, is that Wright's church gave an award to Farrakhan, who we both agree is a racist jerk.

My posting of a made up interview of that character Jeremiah is harmful; while having a president for which Jeremiah has been a spiritual mentor for 20 years is not harmful?
Jeremiah Wright is not the issue. There are nuts and scoundrels of all tendencies and colors. The issue is that Obama has been and is so closely associated with this crazy scoundrel.
I'm not like you. I don't worship any candidate and don't believe in messiahs. I voted for Hillary in the primary because I saw a chance for the old Clinton team to be back in charge of things. For all its minor failings the Clinton administration was good for this country.
When it looked like Obama was going to be the Democratic candidate I was ready to work for his campaign after the convention. I was convinced he had a very good chance of beating McCain if the party solved the problems in Florida and Michigan.
Now everything changed. Remember what the Repugnants did to Kerry with the swift boat ads? Just imagine what they are going to do with Wright's videos. Have to be extremely naive to think Obama's speech solved anything.

[Karomesis]

You don't seem to understand. We are the change we want! Yes we can! Obama is going to save us. He didn't have to attend that church for 20 years. He did it for us. He did it so he could heal us. Its not about Him. None of this is about Him. Everything He does, He does for us. We are waiting for you to join us...join us for change...and hope...and change. OBAMA!

(edit) - nevermind guys, I had a plane fly over my head on this one. (i.e. missed implied sarcasm.)

Edited by Karomesis, 19 March 2008 - 06:45 PM.

[missminni]

Latest gallup poll:

PRINCETON, NJ -- New Gallup Poll Daily tracking finds Hillary Clinton with a 49% to 42% lead over Barack Obama in national Democratic voters' presidential nomination preference.
This is the first time Clinton has held a statistically significant lead in over a month. She last led Obama in Feb. 7-9 polling, just after the Super Tuesday primaries. Since then, the two candidates have usually been in a statistical tie, but Obama has held a lead in several of the polls, most recently in March 11-13 polling.

Obama's campaign has been plagued by controversial remarks made by his former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Obama delivered a major speech on race Tuesday to try to move beyond the controversy. The initial indications are that the speech has not halted Clinton's gaining momentum, as she led by a similar margin in Tuesday night's polling as compared to Monday night's polling.

John McCain may be benefiting in the short-term from the highly charged Democratic race. He holds a statistically significant lead over Obama, 47% to 43%, in registered voters' preferences for the general presidential election. That is the first time any of the candidates has held a statistically significant lead since Gallup Poll Daily tracking began reporting on the general election race last week. McCain's 48% to 45% advantage over Clinton is not statistically significant, but it is the first time he has had an edge over her in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.

[missminni]

You don't seem to understand. We are the change we want! Yes we can! Obama is going to save us. He didn't have to attend that church for 20 years. He did it for us. He did it so he could heal us. Its not about Him. None of this is about Him. Everything He does, He does for us. We are waiting for you to join us...join us for change...and hope...and change. OBAMA!

(edit) - nevermind guys, I had a plane fly over my head on this one. (i.e. missed implied sarcasm.)

LOL. I got it. That's how Obamamaniacs think. The cult of personality does not die. It just gets crazier.
Maybe they think they can burn off America's racist Karma by supporting a racist. You know, like the hair of the dog.

[Anthony_Loera]

About the preacher and videos of him...

I have to say I lean toward what missminni & inawe are saying. Not taking sides here, I am just looking at how differently McCain will be using this to his advantage. If Clinton leaves the race, and Obama is left, the attacks will focus on his perceived weaknesses.

Clinton and Obama have been going at it, leaving McCain to take in information about both, and building a strategy on the weaknesses without putting much effort or money into it. These two are showing McCain the "chinks in the armor" of each candidate, and I for one would take advantage of this if I were running against them, it's not personal... It's just a strategy that I see McCain implement to push doubt into the minds of folks.

Doubt in a person's mind is really all he needs. The challenge for Obama, regardless of his splendid oratory, is to overcome doubt in those in middle America that think about Jessy Jackson, Farrakhan, and now... Rev Wright regarding blacks in politics.

If Obama is left to deal with McCain, he needs to transcend these people by not only distancing himself from them, but associating himself with people who are in some way opposed to many of these folks. 20 years of preaching, by a minister, pastor, or your mother, is simply too hard to waive off as some trite episode. He needs to deal with this in a more drastic way, as it is my personal belief that the republicans will hammer him on it just to win.

If you were them, wouldn't you use this to your advantage?

A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 19 March 2008 - 07:49 PM.

[inawe]

About the preacher and videos of him...

I have to say I lean toward what missminni & inawe are saying. Not taking sides here, I am just looking at how differently McCain will be using this to his advantage. If Clinton leaves the race, and Obama is left, the attacks will focus on his perceived weaknesses.

Clinton and Obama have been going at it, leaving McCain to take in information about both, and building a strategy on the weaknesses without putting much effort or money into it. These two are showing McCain the "chinks in the armor" of each candidate, and I for one would take advantage of this if I were running against them, it's not personal... It's just a strategy that I see McCain implement to push doubt into the minds of folks.

Doubt in a person's mind is really all he needs. The challenge for Obama, regardless of his splendid oratory, is to overcome doubt in those in middle America that think about Jessy Jackson, Farrakhan, and now... Rev Wright regarding blacks in politics.

If Obama is left to deal with McCain, he needs to transcend these people by not only distancing himself from them, but associating himself with people who are in some way opposed to many of these folks. 20 years of preaching, by a minister, pastor, or your mother, is simply too hard to waive off as some trite episode. He needs to deal with this in a more drastic way, as it is my personal belief that the republicans will hammer him on it just to win.

If you were them, wouldn't you use this to your advantage?

A

Right on.
Things on the surface might look one way. Then you ask yourself what's the real meaning and importance of this. You go deeper and find the broader implications.
In the McCain case: he said he doesn't know much about economics. You look at the guy, you hear him talk, you try to guess what makes him tick and you realize there is a much bigger problem. Not knowing economics he could hire somebody who does. The bigger problem is that he doesn't seem to understand that the economy is crucially important. For him it's all about patriotism, the flag, fighting the inf.. I mean terrorists.
Obama said in his speech that Jeremiah Wright is his grandmother and either I vote for him or I'm a racist. He still doesn't understand that this country cannot have a president who regards somebody like Wright as his spiritual mentor. He got offended when somebody implied he wouldn't be where he is if he where not black. Yet he comes with: black churches are different blah, blah... We are ready to get over all of this.
Tell you the truth. I use to see him in TV and wouldn't think about it. Why does he keep reminding me he's black?
It looks like we'll have 2 bad choices come November.

[niner]

Obama said in his speech that Jeremiah Wright is his grandmother and either I vote for him or I'm a racist.

Come on inawe, you have a truth problem. I know, you're "just kidding". Just like Rush Limbaugh, whenever he gets called on a lie.

[niner]

I'm not like you. I don't worship any candidate and don't believe in messiahs. I voted for Hillary in the primary because I saw a chance for the old Clinton team to be back in charge of things.

I "worship" candidates? I believe in "messiahs"? Please. Get a grip. You don't know me.

[missminni]

I don't think Obama is going to get the nomination, unless the democrats
have a death wish. He is unelectable now. After seeing him on Anderson Cooper last night, I am quite sure his
aspirations for president are over. Even he knows it. This isn't even about racism. It's about patriotism.
He has three strikes against him and the Republicans have their attack handed to them on a silver platter.

1. He didn't put his hand over his heart for the pledge allegiance, and he didn't wear his lapel flag...and there's a picture of him to prove it.
2. His wife made the mistake of saying this is the first time in her life she is proud of her country...and there's video to prove it.
3. His spiritual mentor and the spiritual leader of his campaign committee said God damn America...and there's video to prove.

They will put these three clips together and run them till it's embedded in the mind of every voter and they don't even have to play the
race card. Democrats have lost elections over far less than this. Even if he repudiated Wright it would make no difference. For someone
running on "good judgement" he's made some amazingly bad choices that show his obvious lack of experience.
This is a no brainer guys. A blind man on a galloping horse could see that.
I wish the democrats would put the good of the party and the country ahead of their own personal egos and agendas and get behind Hillary.
That's our only hope. Democrats are looking idiotic. Republicans will say if they can't get a grip on their own party, how the
hell are they going to run the country. To continue on this path only makes it worse for them. The chance of McCain being
president is so frightening. Every time I see him he's more out of touch than before and it appears that dementia is setting in.
He looks very confused. I am not saying this to be cruel. It's true.
It's not as if I think Obama would not be a good president, because he probably would be, but we will never know because
HE CAN"T WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee or we will go from bad to worse.
I wish Obama would be the one to recognize this and make the unselfish suggestion to get behind Hillary and make sure
a democrat gets in the white house.

[yoyo]

yes, the wrong protocol for the national anthem will doom is campaign. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[missminni]

yes, the wrong protocol for the national anthem will doom is campaign. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Sarcasm aside,
he could get away with wrong protocol if his wife didn't say what she said and his spiritual advisor didn't say what he said.
It's the cumulative effect, all in the same category of Patriotism. They are big on that here, in case you haven't noticed.

What dooms his campaign is bad judgment not wrong protocol.

[yoyo]

So the things aren't actually bad themselves, but they still indicate bad judgement. ok.

There really isn't any way to think Obama doesn't like the US.

[missminni]

So the things aren't actually bad themselves, but they still indicate bad judgement. ok.

There really isn't any way to think Obama doesn't like the US.

I am getting the idea you're not American. You seem to miss my point.
The Republicans are going to use those three incidents to run negative ads about him...and
they will be very effective with middle america, which is what the majority of the voters here are. This
is nothing new. It's happened before and they were very successful at it.
His poor judgment was not realizing that, and not mitigating it. I am not
particularly patriotic, nor do I care if he is. But I know Middle America, and they care about it.
It has nothing to do with good or bad or if he likes the US ?! Nobody's questioning that.
It has to do with whether he is still electable after the Republicans start their inevitable attack.
He is already trailing Clinton in the Polls by 7% and trailing McCain by even more.
That's how Middle America is reacting in just a week.

[Cyberbrain]

[missminni]

http://www.pbs.org/m...008/watch2.html

Video of Shelby Steele interview with Bill Moyers from Jan 11 2008

Bill Moyers talks with Shelby Steele, who has written widely on race in American society and is author of the recent book A BOUND MAN: WHY WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT OBAMA AND WHY HE CAN'T WIN.

[niner]

yes, the wrong protocol for the national anthem will doom is campaign. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

NOOOOOO! It's the Lapel Pin! So that does it. He got caught without a flag lapel pin. Screw 'im. McCain's got my vote now. BOMBS OVER TEHRAN!!! Sunni, Shiite, what'sa freakin' difference?

[gashinshotan]

Obama's getting screwed over because his anti-American feelings have been revealed. He deserves to be hanged for treason.

[inawe]

Seems that the Democratic race is over. Primaries in Florida and Michigan wont count and most politicians high up in the Democratic party came out to endorse Obama. Since politicians try always to be in the winning team, it's a good bet they know Obama will be the winner.

John Kerry brought Obama to national prominence by inviting him to give a speech at the convention. More recently, Kerry swift-boated Hillary's campaign (he knows that it works). The most recent endorser of Obama is the "Hispanic" governor Richardson.

Obama was elected to Illinois state senate in 1996 and reelected in 2002. It's safe to assume that his good friend and spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright, helped Obama get elected. He probably exhorted his flock the same way he did more recently. Telling them that Obama was one of them. Suffering the consequences of being a descendant of slaves, having to go to 2nd rate schools in extremely poor neighborhoods.

But is any of this true? Let's see. Most people in that congregation and neighborhood are underprivileged because their ancestors were slaves. What about Obama? His father came from Kenya. If his ancestors were ever touch by slavery, more likely it was by owning slaves as upper class members of the Luo tribe (yes, some blacks in Africa did own black slaves).
What about having to go to a dilapidated school in a poor neighborhood? When he started school his step father was a well to do Indonesian. So from 6 to 10 Obama went to a decent school in Indonesia. From 10 to 18 Obama attended Punahou School, formerly known as Oahu College, is a private, co-educational, nonsectarian college preparatory school located in Honolulu. The tuition for that school is now $16,675/year. Just like any poor black kid in the South side of Chicago, right? I didn't go to a $16,675/year tuition high school, did you?
Then Obama went to Columbia University and Harvard Law School. Just like any other young black in Chicago south side.
With all this privileged upbringing and schooling, Obama let Jeremiah Wright lie to the congregation by telling them Obama was one of them. The more I learn about this Obama, the less I like him. I couldn't care less about the color of his skin, it's the color of his character that bothers me.

Obama is running on the slogan of hope, change and uniting. At least he's original. I never heard that from any other politician. Oh, wait. What about Bush 8 years ago claiming to be a unifier not a divider? Obama has a better recipe for unifying the country. He'll create the Department of Unification and appoint Jeremiah Wright as the first secretary.

[missminni]

Seems that the Democratic race is over. Primaries in Florida and Michigan wont count and most politicians high up in the Democratic party came out to endorse Obama. Since politicians try always to be in the winning team, it's a good bet they know Obama will be the winner.

John Kerry brought Obama to national prominence by inviting him to give a speech at the convention. More recently, Kerry swift-boated Hillary's campaign (he knows that it works). The most recent endorser of Obama is the "Hispanic" governor Richardson.

Obama was elected to Illinois state senate in 1996 and reelected in 2002. It's safe to assume that his good friend and spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright, helped Obama get elected. He probably exhorted his flock the same way he did more recently. Telling them that Obama was one of them. Suffering the consequences of being a descendant of slaves, having to go to 2nd rate schools in extremely poor neighborhoods.

But is any of this true? Let's see. Most people in that congregation and neighborhood are underprivileged because their ancestors were slaves. What about Obama? His father came from Kenya. If his ancestors were ever touch by slavery, more likely it was by owning slaves as upper class members of the Luo tribe (yes, some blacks in Africa did own black slaves).
What about having to go to a dilapidated school in a poor neighborhood? When he started school his step father was a well to do Indonesian. So from 6 to 10 Obama went to a decent school in Indonesia. From 10 to 18 Obama attended Punahou School, formerly known as Oahu College, is a private, co-educational, nonsectarian college preparatory school located in Honolulu. The tuition for that school is now $16,675/year. Just like any poor blackkid in the South side of Chicago, right? I didn't go to a $16,675/year tuition high school, did you?Then Obama went to Columbia University and Harvard Law School. Just like any other young black in Chicago south side.
With all this privileged upbringing and schooling, Obama let Jeremiah Wright lie to the congregation by telling them Obama was one of them. The more I learn about this Obama, the less I like him. I couldn't care less about the color of his skin, it's the color of his character that bothers me.

Obama is running on the slogan of hope, change and uniting. At least he's original. I never heard that from any other politician. Oh, wait. What about Bush 8 years ago claiming to be a unifier not a divider? Obama has a better recipe for unifying the country. He'll create the Department of Unification and appoint Jeremiah Wright as the first secretary.

I agree.
But never give up on the Clintons.
The polls do not favor Obama now, and the polls do count. As for Obama, he is first and foremost a politician, and politicians are ambitious and liars. In fact, his ambition is what made him join that church....it has 8000 members....what an audience full of voters to elect you senator, right? Notice how he recently changed his story about Rev. Wright. Now he says he was in the church for 15 years instead of 20. He also now says if he knew
Wright was saying those things he would have left the church. Oh and his grandma has now become a "typical white person". Ouch. What if a white
person called him a typical black person? I can't believe how often he puts his foot in his mouth and the press is so happy to help him extract it.
It is only a matter of time before somebody puts together a video collage of all the contradictions in his story. However that someone will wait for the democrats to actually nominate him before they do it. They are going to wait until the general election, right before November, and then, the TV will be 24/7 with every contradiction and lie and Rev. Wright's comments blasting every 15 minutes. And it will work. Repetition is very effective...especially to the average TV viewer. Especially when the majority of the population is under educated white middle america.
Having said that, if he gets the nomination, I do hope you will still vote for him. I know I will. I obviously prefer Hillary, even if I thought Obama could win. I don't like him. There's something very sneaky about him. People are so blinded by his speaking ability but he says absolutely nothing but empty catch phrases and they are anything but original. I just see him as the guy who democrats like Kerry, that could never be president no matter how rich (and weird) his wife is, the wannabe jealous, envious and misogyny driven democrats got together to endorse and sabotage Hillary. BTW,
according to the Gallup Poll, Obama lost his independent and conservative support in the past week. Richardson, who is slated for his VP, jumped in there today to save his ass.
The polls will tell whether it worked or not.

Edited by missminni, 21 March 2008 - 07:05 PM.

[EmbraceUnity]

inawe,

First, let me say that I support Ralph Nader, and am deeply skeptical of all the democrats, including Obama. That said, what does it matter how much Obama's schools cost? All that matters is what effect he would have on the country. You have not given us one bit of evidence that suggests he would be worse than Hillary Clinton.

As a young man, Barack Obama was heavily involved in community organizing, including working for one of Ralph Nader's many political action groups. Yes, he has also done so through the churches, yet in the areas in which he was involved in community organizing, the churches were some of the only institutions through which it could be done, like it or not. The church he decided to affiliate with is one that espouses liberation theology, which is the belief that it is a sacred duty to fight for social justice. When he was running for the Senate, Obama made a wonderful speech in front of a church that I think everyone ought to hear.

For one, they need to understand the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy, but the robustness of our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn't the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland who didn't want the established churches to impose their views on folks who were getting happy out in the fields and teaching the scripture to slaves. It was the forbearers of the evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they did not want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it.

Moreover, given the increasing diversity of America's population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson's, or Al Sharpton's? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?

Anyone who is running on a platform advocating participatory democracy damn well better have grassroots organizing experience, and such experience can certainly be gained through a church. It is from his dedication to community organizing that his church considers him to be as much a part of their community as anyone. Why do you feel the need to be so partisan? I have a feeling you are consciously smearing Obama for unstated reasons. We have enough partisan hacks on television; why must you seek to emulate such behavior in communal forums such as this? I have absolutely no problem with legitimate criticism, but I cringe when I see people acting like fox news and attempting to deride a candidate and then place another equally - if not more - flawed candidate on a pedestal.

[niner]

But is any of this true? Let's see. Most people in that congregation and neighborhood are underprivileged because their ancestors were slaves. What about Obama? His father came from Kenya. If his ancestors were ever touch by slavery, more likely it was by owning slaves as upper class members of the Luo tribe (yes, some blacks in Africa did own black slaves).
What about having to go to a dilapidated school in a poor neighborhood? When he started school his step father was a well to do Indonesian. So from 6 to 10 Obama went to a decent school in Indonesia. From 10 to 18 Obama attended Punahou School, formerly known as Oahu College, is a private, co-educational, nonsectarian college preparatory school located in Honolulu. The tuition for that school is now $16,675/year. Just like any poor black kid in the South side of Chicago, right? I didn't go to a $16,675/year tuition high school, did you?

Oh for gods sake. He's not Black enough? That's your argument? Coming from a Hillary supporter? Hillary is supposed to appeal to down and out uneducated blue collar losers. But wait! She's not po' like them! She went to high falutin' fancy schools! I declare, that lady is NOT WHITE ENOUGH! What a fraud.